---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/20/13: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:30 AM - Value of the List... (Matt Dralle) 1. 03:36 AM - Re: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day (danhelsper@aol.com) 2. 03:44 AM - Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question (Michael Perez) 3. 04:16 AM - Re: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day (Jack) 4. 04:23 AM - Re: Prop carving (womenfly2) 5. 05:27 AM - Re: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question (airlion2@gmail.com) 6. 06:02 AM - Re: welder (womenfly2) 7. 06:17 AM - Re: Mike Weaver - slow day (curtdm(at)gmail.com) 8. 06:37 AM - Re: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day (Gary Boothe) 9. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day (Michael Perez) 10. 07:08 AM - steel tube builder directory (nightmare) 11. 07:27 AM - Re: steel tube builder directory (aerocarjake) 12. 07:29 AM - Re: steel tube builder directory (curtdm(at)gmail.com) 13. 08:18 AM - Re: steel tube builder directory (Steven Dortch) 14. 09:27 AM - Re: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day (Jim Boyer) 15. 09:40 AM - Re: steel tube builder directory (nightmare) 16. 09:56 AM - Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question (Jack Phillips) 17. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: steel tube builder directory (Jack) 18. 10:27 AM - Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question (AircamperN11MS) 19. 10:29 AM - Re: Re: steel tube builder directory (Gary Boothe) 20. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question (Marcus Zechini) 21. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day () 22. 01:30 PM - Re: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day (Jim Boyer) 23. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: steel tube builder directory (Steven Dortch) 24. 11:01 PM - Re: steel tube builder directory (biplan53) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:57 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Value of the List... If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... :-) Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support these Lists? http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 USA I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day From: danhelsper@aol.com This stuff reminds me of when I was recovering my Champ back in 1976. Had t he wing roped to the ceiling....and one side gave way. Wingtip came down wi th a crash and cracked the spar............AARRRRG! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: curtdm(at)gmail.com Sent: Tue, Nov 19, 2013 3:48 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day om> I'm getting a lot more done with the fuselage overhead. $9 Harbor Freight bicycle lift good for 100lbs. Current stage only weighs 50lbs. Only takes about 30 seconds for one person to move it out of the way for th e wife's car. I think I'd rather have a couple of nearby builders to help. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413451#413451 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_642.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:45 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Started Construction - Spar Length Question Grant, welcome aboard. Not knowing your tool availability, location to local usable aircraft lumber, finances, skill... another couple alternatives would be to 1) buy new longer spars and cut up the existing ones for various other plane parts or 2) buy bulk wood, cut your own longer spars and use the existing ones for various other plane parts. I had purchased wing spars with one of the four rather suspect, so I purchased another. I cut up the "bad" spar into various other parts...I believe mostly fuselage cross members. If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:37 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day Curt I have two of these for our bikes, why didn't I think of that! Jack Textor West Des Moines, IA -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of curtdm(at)gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day I'm getting a lot more done with the fuselage overhead. $9 Harbor Freight bicycle lift good for 100lbs. Current stage only weighs 50lbs. Only takes about 30 seconds for one person to move it out of the way for the wife's car. I think I'd rather have a couple of nearby builders to help. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413451#413451 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_642.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:24 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Prop carving From: "womenfly2" danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote: > P & W R-4360. But it may be too much prop for it. We'll see. > > Dan Helsper > Puryear, TN > -- .... really. [Rolling Eyes] -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413553#413553 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question From: airlion2@gmail.com Bob, the. Big Piet builders used 3 sets per wing. Gardiner Sent from my iPad > On Nov 19, 2013, at 6:44 PM, "bdewenter" wrote: > > > Grant, and others > > Don't over worry about the drag - anti drag wires interfering with "plans" rib spacing (per say). I am considering slightly expanding wing span and using 3 sets of cross brace wires per wing - more X than stock plans. Just don't glue or nail anything until you have dry fitted the ribs to the spars relative to the X wires - and that goes for anyone regardless of wing span or how many brace wires are used... > > -------- > Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter > Dayton OH > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413460#413460 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:55 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: welder From: "womenfly2" Buy a TIG welder or a set of gas torches. Do not even think of this product. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413558#413558 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:56 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" Oscar, I totally agree with your formula on the relationship between work done and visitors. But it's been a long time since I've had a visitor stop by and even ask what I'm building in my garage. I think a lot of neighbors gave up on me because I wasn't making much visible progress. Things have changed. New insulated hanger(garage) door for the hot summers. Hoist for fuselage so I have more floor area. Added more shelving for storage. Wife got a job as a Stewardess at AA. Finally got my drill press to work better. Got past my fear of cutting, gluing, welding a piece wrong. If anyone is coming through Dallas, y'all are welcome. I'll even come pick you up from your hotel/airport like so many on this list have done with me. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413559#413559 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:51 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day As Curt will testify, I give visitors the worst jobs (ie: safety wiring the oil pan, full rpm runups). That tests their resolve to visit and weeds out the useless... Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of curtdm(at)gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:18 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day --> Oscar, I totally agree with your formula on the relationship between work done and visitors. But it's been a long time since I've had a visitor stop by and even ask what I'm building in my garage. I think a lot of neighbors gave up on me because I wasn't making much visible progress. Things have changed. New insulated hanger(garage) door for the hot summers. Hoist for fuselage so I have more floor area. Added more shelving for storage. Wife got a job as a Stewardess at AA. Finally got my drill press to work better. Got past my fear of cutting, gluing, welding a piece wrong. If anyone is coming through Dallas, y'all are welcome. I'll even come pick you up from your hotel/airport like so many on this list have done with me. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413559#413559 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:28 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day I had the privilege of having Curt stop over to check out my plane in progress about a year or so ago. A real gentleman and I am glad to have met him. I say this because I am of the type that likes to work alone and prefer to do so. I also am the type to not say much about what I am working on because I don't want to come across as bragging or showing off. Although Curt and I did not work on anything during his short visit, it was very satisfying to talk with someone, outside of immediate family and friends, who is a "plane guy" and also a builder/pilot. I don't think my neighbors even know that I am building a plane. We all get along great, but we all mind our own business as well. Again, since I tend to be a private person and really don't talk much about what I am up to, I don't expect them to know what is going on in my shop. (that will all change if I decide to do my initial engine run in the driveway.) As curt said, anyone in the area is free to stop over my pace to chat...just don't expect to work on anything... If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:50 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: steel tube builder directory From: "nightmare" I thought it might be useful to start a directory here of fellow steel tube Piet builders/owners so that we may ask eachother questions directly if needed. There is less info and folks available to ask those numerous stupid questions to. Not to mention those contemplating steel over wood. Im learning as im going, but feel free to ask away. Paul Donahue. Fuselage mostly completed , welding nut tabs now. pauldonahuepilotatyahoodotcom Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413566#413566 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube builder directory From: "aerocarjake" building the steel-tube version.... (full disclosure: hiring out the welding) -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413567#413567 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube builder directory From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" Paul, Forward your information to Jack Textor and he'll add you to the Piet Directory. You can sort the directory by city, state, fuse type, engine type, occupation. There is a lot of expertise in different fields in this group from beer drinking to building. Some are great at both. I'll be giving you a shout the next time I layover in PBI. Hope to see your project! -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413568#413568 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: steel tube builder directory From: Steven Dortch Paul, I am not building a steel tube. But I enjoy reading about your projects, I don't feel that your discussions are a distraction for this list. Indeed didn't Mr. P. build a steel tube Piet? Blue Skies, Steve D On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 9:08 AM, nightmare wrote: > pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com> > > I thought it might be useful to start a directory here of fellow steel > tube Piet builders/owners so that we may ask eachother questions directly > if needed. There is less info and folks available to ask those numerous > stupid questions to. Not to mention those contemplating steel over wood. > Im learning as im going, but feel free to ask away. > > Paul Donahue. Fuselage mostly completed , welding nut tabs now. > pauldonahuepilotatyahoodotcom > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413566#413566 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:17 AM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day Thanks Curt, it looked like it was a pretty nice setup; did wonder about a 100 lb bicycle though since my 18 gear job was only 7.5 lbs. Thanks, Jim B. =C2- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:23 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube builder directory From: "nightmare" Thanks Curt, was not aware of a piet directory. Do you have a link? I was scouring through west coast piet for steel tube pics. Give a call or text on next pbi layover. What airline do you work for. 954-six one two-seven zero six sevn. I am a little hesitant posting steel tube progress with a very small amount of like builders. But mostly wanted to compile a list so fellow tube heads know who they can contact with a question. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413577#413577 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:21 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Started Construction - Spar Length Question Hi Grant, Welcome to the world of Pietenpol building! I wouldn't recommend building a clipped-wing Pietenpol. It needs more wing area if anything, rather than less. As for increasing the width of the center section, that can be done (I made mine 36" wide to accommodate more fuel) but be aware that such a change tends to ripple through the entire project, and you are entering the realm of aircraft designer rather than just aircraft builder. My advice would be to bite the bullet and order the proper sized spar material. Savannah is close enough to Wicks Aircraft Supply that you could drive there to pick up the wood to avoid shipping charges. Good luck! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grantz5906 Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 10:48 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Started Construction - Spar Length Question I have finally started construction of my Pietenpol after a year of lurking on the list and finishing other projects. I am looking forward to the project and participating in the list discussions. I have already gained a volume of useful information from this group. Thanks!! I purchased several spruce planks from another Piet builder who indicated it was enough wood to build a complete aircraft. As luck would have it, upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long. Would it be problematic to increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar span of 29'-5"? OR Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? Thanks for the assistance. Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube builder directory From: Jack Paul I will send you the form when I get home Sent from my iPad Jack Textor On Nov 20, 2013, at 11:40 AM, "nightmare" wrote: > > Thanks Curt, was not aware of a piet directory. Do you have a link? > I was scouring through west coast piet for steel tube pics. > Give a call or text on next pbi layover. What airline do you work for. > 954-six one two-seven zero six sevn. > I am a little hesitant posting steel tube progress with a very small amount of like builders. But mostly wanted to compile a list so fellow tube heads know who they can contact with a question. > > -------- > Paul Donahue > Started 8-3-12 > do not archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413577#413577 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:08 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question From: "AircamperN11MS" Welcome aboard, I like the idea of scarfing them. It is the least expensive way to do it. Just make sure the the scarf joints are at the wing tips. This way you only need to purchase 8 feet of spar material or perhaps you already have enough with the supply you purchased? Oh, I only have a 27 foot wing span and wish it where 29 feet per plans. Happy building, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413586#413586 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:49 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube builder directory Paul, I have very little interest in steel tube...never did. But I have access to a great tool....[DELETE]! Who knows, you may inspire some converts... Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nightmare Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube builder directory --> Thanks Curt, was not aware of a piet directory. Do you have a link? I was scouring through west coast piet for steel tube pics. Give a call or text on next pbi layover. What airline do you work for. 954-six one two-seven zero six sevn. I am a little hesitant posting steel tube progress with a very small amount of like builders. But mostly wanted to compile a list so fellow tube heads know who they can contact with a question. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413577#413577 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question From: Marcus Zechini My GN-1 has clipped Piper Cub wings...ailerons nearly whole span. Just another choice..... -Zeke NX431LA C-85-12 On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:26 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > > Welcome aboard, > > I like the idea of scarfing them. It is the least expensive way to do it. > Just make sure the the scarf joints are at the wing tips. This way you > only need to purchase 8 feet of spar material or perhaps you already have > enough with the supply you purchased? > > Oh, I only have a 27 foot wing span and wish it where 29 feet per plans. > > Happy building, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413586#413586 > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:31 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day Jim, I sure hope you don=99t do your Weight and Balance with that scale. My velodrome-only bike, with no gears at all, nor brakes neither, weighs 17 LB. Mike Hardaway From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Boyer Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:27 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day Thanks Curt, it looked like it was a pretty nice setup; did wonder about a 100 lb bicycle though since my 18 gear job was only 7.5 lbs. Thanks, Jim B. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:02 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day Hi Mike, I probably dropped an order of magnitude. I know it wasn't over 20 pounds t hough; but then again I sold it in 1992? Maybe I could lift it so well cause I was 21 years younger? Use to ride eve ry day to work and=C2- back all year around. That was before knee joint r eplacement, etc. Cheers, Jim B. =C2- =C2- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube builder directory From: Steven Dortch Please send me the Piet directory link as well. I guess I have to join the Piets Anonimous. Also, I am not working on a steel frame but I enjoy learning from your discussions on the steel Piets. Don't feel bad to share with the group. "Hi, my name is Steve and I am working on a spruce Pieten-Grega!" On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 11:40 AM, nightmare wrote: > pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com> > > Thanks Curt, was not aware of a piet directory. Do you have a link? > I was scouring through west coast piet for steel tube pics. > Give a call or text on next pbi layover. What airline do you work for. > 954-six one two-seven zero six sevn. > I am a little hesitant posting steel tube progress with a very small > amount of like builders. But mostly wanted to compile a list so fellow tube > heads know who they can contact with a question. > > -------- > Paul Donahue > Started 8-3-12 > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413577#413577 > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube builder directory From: "biplan53" I am building a steel tube Piet. I know what you mean about looking for pictures of steel tube planes. It seems that Jake has put more pictures out than most builders have. I am trying to build build a mount for an AC fiberglass seat. -------- Building steel fuselage aircamper. 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