Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:40 AM - [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:02 AM - Re: beauty shot at 25 months (gsnewsome)
2. 04:30 AM - Re: Fw: glues (womenfly2)
3. 06:53 AM - Re: Fw: glues (GNflyer)
4. 07:36 AM - Bob's progress (Douwe Blumberg)
5. 07:47 AM - glues (Douwe Blumberg)
6. 09:13 AM - Re: beauty shot at 25 months (bdewenter)
7. 09:30 AM - Re: Fw: glues (dgaldrich)
8. 10:09 AM - Re: beauty shot at 25 months (bdewenter)
9. 10:25 AM - Re: Bob's progress (bdewenter)
10. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: beauty shot at 25 months (Gary Boothe)
11. 12:52 PM - Re: Fw: glues (tools)
12. 12:52 PM - Winter flight (Douwe Blumberg)
13. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: Fw: glues (Kip and Beth Gardner)
14. 03:14 PM - best primer for 4130 fuselage (nightmare)
15. 03:50 PM - Re: best primer for 4130 fuselage (Pietflyer1977)
16. 04:25 PM - Re: Winter flight (GNflyer)
17. 04:33 PM - Re: Re: best primer for 4130 fuselage (Glen Schweizer)
18. 05:00 PM - Re: Re: Fw: glues (Glen Schweizer)
19. 07:25 PM - Re: Fw: glues (GNflyer)
20. 07:45 PM - Love Letters (Larry Williams)
21. 08:09 PM - Re: Re: Fw: glues (Kip and Beth Gardner)
22. 10:59 PM - Thanks to all (At30West)
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Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
It's November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again;
the big 50, in fact! But it also means that it's that last official day
of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about picking
up one of those really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on it!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever forget it.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you to all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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Subject: | Re: beauty shot at 25 months |
Very nice!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414633#414633
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T-88 System Three Resin, Inc. Aircraft (http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/literature/CertWoodenAircraft.pdf)
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414634#414634
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Hee Hee! it reminds me of another builders list I was on for years. whenever a
new builder would get on it and ask about it the glue wars as we called them
started again. invariably everybody had their reasons a certain glue wasn't ny
good and theirs was perfect.I kinda think we all want to think we made the right
choice whether we did or not. I bet any of the ones you are recommended on
here will work fine if you do the prep and follow he recommendations. ( I kinda
favor buttermilk and flour myself_ :
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YEAH Bob!!! Very nice!!!! Much to be Thankful for.
Douwe
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I'd guess that a very large percentage of wood airplanes built today (does
anyone build wood airplanes anymore besides us??) are being built with T-88.
It is a good, airworthy and proven glue which combines user friendliness
with strength, with moisture resistance, with gap-filling properties with
sanding ease and with a proven track record. You would not go wrong to use
it, and though there are other good glues out there, I can't think of many
reasons to prefer them over a good proven epoxy.
I would say fewer and fewer people are using Resorcinol these days. It is
more persnickety to use and one REALLY has to be a good carpenter because it
won't fill gaps, so you're joints must be VERY precise.
The Bingilis books describe the different glue types pretty well, though
it's getting a bit dated, he covers most of the ones out there.
I personally had a bad experience with "plastic resin" glue.
$.02
Douwe
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Subject: | Re: beauty shot at 25 months |
gboothe wrote:
> Looks great, Bob! Your gear looks wider than mine...which is a good
> decision!
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
>
> --
Gary,
Thanks! I'm not sure it is wide enough. The inner "locks" needs to be slid to
allow the wheel to come in enough for full 1" nut - right now only about half
the threads on the nuts are doing their job. Wheels are at 56" on center now.
When I move the inner locks I think I will be down to 54" - how wide is yours?
I hate to think about paying another $140 to re-machine the axle, but I will if
I need to
Bob
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414651#414651
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So here's a novel idea -- test it yourself. It's called experimental aviation
for a reason. Take some scrap pieces (we ALL have scrap pieces) and glue them
together in a structure similar to that on the airplane. Make up several samples
and test them to destruction. If you're worried about heat degradation,
bake em in a low oven for an hour or two. If you're curious about whether sanding
has an affect on the joint, make up a couple using both sanded and unsanded
wood and break them using the stress in the axis you're concerned about.
I have personally tested resorcinol, T-88, and West System on various sanded substrates
as well as on varnished pieces. There's nothing like real world data
to give you confidence that it's going to hold together.
The one variable you can't easily test is the affect of aging but most of the recommended
glues have been in use in the marine world for decades so that should
probably be a secondary issue.
Dave
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Subject: | Re: beauty shot at 25 months |
aerocarjake wrote:
> That photo is awesome... Not sure how you managed to Photoshop out the snow...!
Jake,
Thanks for the compliment. As for the snow, southern Ohio doesn't get much until
January-March...Northern Ohio is another story!
Don Emch loves the snow!
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
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Subject: | Re: Bob's progress |
[quote="douweblumberg(at)earthlin"]YEAH Bob!!! Very nice!!!! Much to be Thankful
for.
Douwe
> [b]
Thanks Douwe! Lookikng forward to seeing you again (after winter !!!)
Bob
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
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Subject: | Re: beauty shot at 25 months |
Mine's 52 1/2". Gear widening is scheduled for December. I can easily get another
6". More than that will be a much larger project.
Gary
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 30, 2013, at 9:12 AM, "bdewenter" <anonymouse@woh.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> gboothe wrote:
>> Looks great, Bob! Your gear looks wider than mine...which is a good
>> decision!
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> NX308MB
>>
>>
>> --
>
>
> Gary,
>
> Thanks! I'm not sure it is wide enough. The inner "locks" needs to be slid to
allow the wheel to come in enough for full 1" nut - right now only about half
the threads on the nuts are doing their job. Wheels are at 56" on center now.
When I move the inner locks I think I will be down to 54" - how wide is yours?
>
> I hate to think about paying another $140 to re-machine the axle, but I will
if I need to
>
> Bob
>
> --------
> Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
> Dayton OH
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414651#414651
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Not trying to start something, but along the idea of testing your own...
Is there any reason yellow glue isn't acceptable? I've built LOTS of furniture
with it that has seen LOTS of conditions. Indoor stuff, outdoor stuff, stuff
in the sun, stuff on trucks subject to vibration, stuff I load the ever living
daylights out of (benches and such) and have never had a glue joint fail that
was properly built and glued up. Titebond II even has lots of water proofness.
Not really knowing the answer to that myself, I'm not necessarily planning to use
it, but i have always wondered.
I have recently found lots of great information from the boat guys on using epoxy
that I really like. Boat hulls certainly see conditions rougher than I'll
ever put an airplane through. I'm planning on using T88 (and am using it for
some comprehensive repairs - longeron scarfing, tail post replacement, etc) but
am considering using some West System stuff.
Food for thought.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414663#414663
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Flew today for the first time in about seven weeks! Temps got up into the
higher 40's with the wind right down the runway, so I figured "now or
never".
Told my friend I'd fly over his house but he asked if he could come so we
met at the airport, pre-flighted her, added ten gallons at the screaming
deal price of $4.95 (uggg.) shoehorned him into the front pit and taxied
onto the runway.
As I'm taxing to the end, I notice something next to his head in the
distance. turns out to be a twin-engined spam can on some crazy long final.
So I spin around and get off the runway and wait while he does a touch and
go, I immediately pull back onto the runway and about three-quarters to the
end, see him on a downwind! Got nowhere to go but the grass, so I pull off
and wait for him again.
Anyways. we then take off and she's climbing like she does with just me on a
summer day. Take him down the Licking River at about 1,000 agl. I like
this flight because there is nothing but flat fields along the river, so it
is relaxing when I'm flying a passenger. After I cross over the high
tension lines, I drop down and we work our way back at tree-top level. Then
fly over our houses and say hi.
Been about 45 minutes and I'm getting a bit cold. Turns out he's toastie as
the cabin heater is really working. It sure ain't making any heat for me in
the back. Anyways, I can tell I'm ready to land, so we head for home to
find a Pitts doing taxi testing on the runway. Eventually he sees me and
vacates, so I can slip her in and land directly into the ten mile headwind.
Patted her on the nose, closed the hangar door and drove home.
God is good!
Keep building, it's worth it!!
Douwe
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Again, the main problem with most of these newer glues is that they've
never been evaluated for aviation purposes. I use Titebond 3 (the
nearly waterproof formulation) to glue up longbow laminations, a use
that subjects the glue line to incredible compression/tension forces &
have not had one come apart yet, so I'm willing to bet it's
structurally strong enough for many aircraft uses, but that doesn't
mean I'd use it on an aircraft without some serious testing in that
application.
Kip Gardner
On Nov 30, 2013, at 3:51 PM, tools wrote:
>
> Not trying to start something, but along the idea of testing your
> own...
>
> Is there any reason yellow glue isn't acceptable? I've built LOTS
> of furniture with it that has seen LOTS of conditions. Indoor
> stuff, outdoor stuff, stuff in the sun, stuff on trucks subject to
> vibration, stuff I load the ever living daylights out of (benches
> and such) and have never had a glue joint fail that was properly
> built and glued up. Titebond II even has lots of water proofness.
>
> Not really knowing the answer to that myself, I'm not necessarily
> planning to use it, but i have always wondered.
>
> I have recently found lots of great information from the boat guys
> on using epoxy that I really like. Boat hulls certainly see
> conditions rougher than I'll ever put an airplane through. I'm
> planning on using T88 (and am using it for some comprehensive
> repairs - longeron scarfing, tail post replacement, etc) but am
> considering using some West System stuff.
>
> Food for thought.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414663#414663
>
>
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Subject: | best primer for 4130 fuselage |
Was searching the interweb on what primer would be best for 4130. Lots of different
opinions. Was leaning towards stewart system 2 part epoxy and no paint.
Maybe a light coat of zinc phosphate or chromate first. Any opinions?
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
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Subject: | Re: best primer for 4130 fuselage |
I would use Stits Epoxy primer if you were going to glue your fabric to any part
of it. It works the best for not lifting when the glue comes in contact with
it. Also have had good luck with PPG industrial CRE epoxy primer that works good
and is some tough stuff. When they mix it they can also tint it any color
you want if you do not want to paint it. If no fabric is going to be glued to
it I would use PPG DP90LF epoxy primer. It sprays nice and lays down smooth with
no orange peel. I would go direct to clean metal with any of these. I don't
know anything about the Stewart system but if you are covering with that system
there glue might not affect any of these primers or any other primers.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414671#414671
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Subject: | Re: Winter flight |
Cabin eat huh? I wish! I rolled mine out today too- warmed the mighty corvair up
and blasted off. but I am a wimp. it was 59 at the time here but still a light
jacket didn't feel like quite enough with the extra breeze coming up my legs
as well.but I am sure glad I got it out and flew. like a very intelligent man
once said- ( the best plane is the one that is finished and flying) well something
like that anyway. mine is definitely not a show plane but it is good to
be able to say I fly it.
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Subject: | Re: best primer for 4130 fuselage |
Any epoxy(NOT THE RATTLE CAN CRAP) would be a great choice. Think about white
or other very light color because its easier to inspect for cracks, rust etc.
than a dark color
------------------------------
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 3:49 PM PST Pietflyer1977 wrote:
>
>I would use Stits Epoxy primer if you were going to glue your fabric to any part
of it. It works the best for not lifting when the glue comes in contact with
it. Also have had good luck with PPG industrial CRE epoxy primer that works
good and is some tough stuff. When they mix it they can also tint it any color
you want if you do not want to paint it. If no fabric is going to be glued to
it I would use PPG DP90LF epoxy primer. It sprays nice and lays down smooth with
no orange peel. I would go direct to clean metal with any of these. I don't
know anything about the Stewart system but if you are covering with that system
there glue might not affect any of these primers or any other primers.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414671#414671
>
>
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Hi again. I've thought of using vinyl acetate glues as well. I spoke with an
eaa tech advisor he said (screamed)NO. The reason he gave was that if ever there
was moisture intrusion the glue would soften. I did however use thick CA glue
for rib construction and after testing to destruction on one rib,found it
to be very acceptable. As always,do your own testing. You decide.
------------------------------
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 12:51 PM PST tools wrote:
>
>Not trying to start something, but along the idea of testing your own...
>
>Is there any reason yellow glue isn't acceptable? I've built LOTS of furniture
with it that has seen LOTS of conditions. Indoor stuff, outdoor stuff, stuff
in the sun, stuff on trucks subject to vibration, stuff I load the ever living
daylights out of (benches and such) and have never had a glue joint fail that
was properly built and glued up. Titebond II even has lots of water proofness.
>
>Not really knowing the answer to that myself, I'm not necessarily planning to
use it, but i have always wondered.
>
>I have recently found lots of great information from the boat guys on using epoxy
that I really like. Boat hulls certainly see conditions rougher than I'll
ever put an airplane through. I'm planning on using T88 (and am using it for
some comprehensive repairs - longeron scarfing, tail post replacement, etc) but
am considering using some West System stuff.
>
>Food for thought.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414663#414663
>
>
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I do not know for sure but I think Titebond may be one of the poly ethylene? glues
that are like the one I had the dealings with. if so it wasn't their brand,
but I was instructed that you did need to dampen one surface with water o help
it set and also soak in the wood better. been quite a few years. but for sure
that particular glue did hold well with a good fit-however if there was any
gap it created a foam which had very little if any strength. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414675#414675
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Anyone else get a personal rant from Mr. Hyde?
I put his address into the spam file.
Seems like there was a "Hyde" on the list years ago but it sure didn't sound like
this one!!
--------
L.V.Williams
XCG, XCMR,EPP
USHPA, EAA, AMA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414676#414676
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Titebond is not one of the polyethylene glues - those are the ones
like Gorilla Glue, which, as you say, foam in a gap. There are some
significant issues with those that make them, in my opinion, unsafe
for aircraft. Titebond is an aliphatic resin glue (whatever that is),
and is more related to good old Elmer's than any other glue type.
Needs to be clamped properly to get a good bond, but I've used it for
years in many woodworking projects & is my glue of choice if there's a
reason to NOT use an epoxy.
On Nov 30, 2013, at 10:24 PM, GNflyer wrote:
>
> I do not know for sure but I think Titebond may be one of the poly
> ethylene? glues that are like the one I had the dealings with. if so
> it wasn't their brand, but I was instructed that you did need to
> dampen one surface with water o help it set and also soak in the
> wood better. been quite a few years. but for sure that particular
> glue did hold well with a good fit-however if there was any gap it
> created a foam which had very little if any strength. Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414675#414675
>
>
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Thanks to all who responded to my "plans, where to start" topic. I have ordered
the building manual from the Pietenpol site and will buy the plans there. Looks
like it will be slow going at first!
I am located in the great white north... Northern Ohio. KBJJ
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414678#414678
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