Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Mon 12/02/13


Total Messages Posted: 11



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:33 AM - Re: New Builder of the Pietenpol (echobravo4)
     2. 06:04 AM - Re: Re: Fw: glues (Kip and Beth Gardner)
     3. 07:01 AM - Re: Fw: glues (Bill Church)
     4. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: Fw: glues (Kip and Beth Gardner)
     5. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: Love Letters (Chuck Campbell)
     6. 10:14 AM - Re: Thanks to all (Michael Perez)
     7. 11:33 AM - Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing... (aerocarjake)
     8. 01:52 PM - Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing... (taildrags)
     9. 02:03 PM - Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing... (AircamperN11MS)
    10. 02:19 PM - Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing... (taildrags)
    11. 02:43 PM - Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing... (aerocarjake)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:33:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: New Builder of the Pietenpol
    From: "echobravo4" <eab4@comcast.net>
    Vi Kapler makes them (I think he is still making them) Here's his info- Vitalis Kapler 507-288-3322 1033 Forest Hills Dr. SW Rochester, MN 55902 -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414732#414732


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:04:30 AM PST US
    From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
    I think it was Dave Aldrich (?) who commented that the only reason he could think of to not use epoxy was if you were allergic. Actually, I find a number of (non aircraft) situations where Titebond is the better choice. For example, If I'm edge-joining two long boards to make a table top or something similar, it's much easier to work with than epoxy (just run the bead & join), has a longer working time than most epoxies, and cleans up easier, which makes later finishing better. Just one example, there are others. I still like epoxy, but there are some applications where I just find it a pain to work with and Titebond simplifies things. Kip Gardner On Dec 1, 2013, at 11:29 PM, taildrags wrote: > > > > Douwe; as to your question about anyone else building wooden > airplanes besides us, the only other group I'm familiar with are the > KR builders. The KR uses a wood structure with foam infill and > fiberglass skin. It also uses wood spars and other framing > members. The discussions on the KRNet are quite similar to ours, > with T88 predomindating but various other adhesives being used for > the wooden parts. West Systems seems to be mentioned frequently. > > I, too, wonder about Titebond III. It is an excellent adhesive, > proven and tested waterproof, and if I understand the product > literature correctly it has a shear strength of 4000 psi at room > temperature, vs the listed shear strength for T88 of 2500 psi at > 67F. They both lose strength at elevated temperatures (150F or > so). Still, as Clif pointed out, the glue strength is at least as > good as the wood strength at those temperatures. There are many > benefits to using Titebond... it's a one-part adhesive that works > well at most shop temperatures, is widely available (I've never seen > T88 in a hardware store, but I see Titebond II and III in most such > stores), dries clear, and is easy to clean up. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot; > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414722#414722 > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:01:31 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    So, the old "glue discussion" comes up once again. Not sure why it keeps reoccurring. Do a quick search of the archives and see how many times this has been rehashed. The short answer (not that there actually was a question posed) is that T-88 (or equivalent 2-part epoxy) is pretty much the standard adhesive for construction of wooden aircraft today. It is pretty simple to use (1:1 mixing, by volume, has a decent pot life, and cures overnight.) Polyurethane glues (Gorilla Glue and the like) are NOT recommended, so don't use them to build your aircraft. Titebond III appears to be a very good wood adhesive, and may well prove to be a satisfactory glue for building a wooden aircraft, but it is so-far unproven (in aircraft structures). There are no tabletops in a Piet. Regarding the so-called expensive nature of T-88, you'll only need about $100 worth to build the whole aircraft. Not a significant amount in the overall picture. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414736#414736


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:00:20 AM PST US
    From: Kip and Beth Gardner <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Fwd: glues
    I think it keeps coming up because the 'official' information is so dated (thanks FAA), and we have so few real choices that are accepted to be safe. You may find T-88 easy to work with, I generally consider all epoxies a pain to one degree or another and use them mainly due to "Hobson's choice". Kip Gardner On Dec 2, 2013, at 10:01 AM, Bill Church wrote: > > > > So, the old "glue discussion" comes up once again. Not sure why it > keeps reoccurring. Do a quick search of the archives and see how > many times this has been rehashed. > The short answer (not that there actually was a question posed) is > that T-88 (or equivalent 2-part epoxy) is pretty much the standard > adhesive for construction of wooden aircraft today. It is pretty > simple to use (1:1 mixing, by volume, has a decent pot life, and > cures overnight.) Polyurethane glues (Gorilla Glue and the like) > are NOT recommended, so don't use them to build your aircraft. > Titebond III appears to be a very good wood adhesive, and may well > prove to be a satisfactory glue for building a wooden aircraft, but > it is so-far unproven (in aircraft structures). There are no > tabletops in a Piet. > Regarding the so-called expensive nature of T-88, you'll only need > about $100 worth to build the whole aircraft. Not a significant > amount in the overall picture. > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414736#414736 > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:44:21 AM PST US
    From: Chuck Campbell <cncampbell@outlook.com>
    Subject: Re: Love Letters
    Seems there should be some legal action that could be taken. C > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Love Letters > From: airlion2@gmail.com > Date: Sun=2C 1 Dec 2013 17:08:07 -0500 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > Hey=2C this pietenpol site is going downhill fast=2C how do we get rid of jerks=2C my wife will not sign on anymore. Gardiner > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Dec 1=2C 2013=2C at 11:45 AM=2C Ryan Mueller <ryan@rmueller.org> wro te: > > > > > > Hmm=85.hopefully this experience doesn=92t turn Jim off of Pietenpols a ltogether=3B I was looking forward to seeing him at Brodhead. He would be r elatively easy to find at the various highlights of the weekend: > > > > The Textor=92s lunch: "I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NOR DO I CARE. WHO THE F*** IS JACK TEXTOR? WHAT THE F*** IS A BRATWURST?" > > > > The fish boil: "I DONT GIVE A S*** WHERE THE FISH COMES FROM OR WHO BOI LED IT AND I SURE DONT WANT TO BE HERE AND SMELL LIKE IT!" > > > > The raffle: "I have no idea who this =93Doc" guy is. all I know is that he keeps sending me newsletters wanting stories and pictures." > > > > Checking out the items for sale at the pavilion: =93who is this guy? wh y is he selling ribs on this picnic table? the last ribs I bought came from a drunk indian on the street Glendale=2C az and I didn't care where he go t them.=94 > > > > Breakfast in the chapter hangar: "all im doing is out here to get info on building the plane. what little money I have is needed to build the f*** *** plane. I aint giving nothing to a pancake salesman. if I need a pancak e ill steal it from the Sand Burr.=94 > > > > C=92est la vie=85.hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving=2C > > > > Ryan > > > > > >> On Dec 1=2C 2013=2C at 9:48 AM=2C echobravo4 <eab4@comcast.net> wrote: > >> > >> > >> Yea=2C got one early on > >> Think John R. Got one too > >> > >> -------- > >> Earl Brown > >> > >> I may not have gone where I intended to go=2C but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Read this topic online here: > >> > >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414690#414690 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:14:30 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Thanks to all
    I am doing my flight training out of SkyPark Steve and use BJJ quite often. If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:33:46 AM PST US
    Subject: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
    From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
    Hello good Piet-ple, Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving holiday...! The break gave me a chance to make progress on my rudder cable routing. I am using rudder pedals (with toe brakes) instead of a rudder bar so there may be times when I inadvertently press on BOTH pedals at once - such as a situation of hard braking. With a rudder bar, pressing with both feet at once would not cause a significant increase in tension on the rudder cables (or the rudder hinges), yet with pedals I needed to do something to address this issue. My solution was to fabricate a rudder cable "pivot bar" in the aft fuselage that is designed to take the loads if I press on both pedals at once. This design should also allow the cables from the pivot bar aft to the rudder horn be maintained at a constant tension. This is the simplest modification I could think of while still keeping with the intent of Bernard's original design. In the photos you can see orange string strung (fun to say that) where the cables will be. I superimposed a RED line where the cable runs from the pedal to the pivot bar, and a GREEN line from the pivot bar aft to the rudder horn. As with all of these modifications i ma making to the design, a caveat is that I have not yet completed or flown my plane so everything is subject to change(!) I drop the parts off to the welder in a few hours... funnn stufff -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414742#414742 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_cable_routing_3_143.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_cable_routing_2_141.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_cable_routing_1_459.jpg


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:52:32 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
    From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    An elegant solution, Jake! I don't believe I've seen this setup on another Piet before. Have you thought about rudder stops, and will those be at the pedals somewhere (either cockpit)? I ask this because I very recently fabricated new stops for my rudder bar, under the front seat. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot; A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414747#414747


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:03:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
    From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
    I just love the smell of steel tube in the morning. Yes I really mean it. It looks good Jake. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414748#414748


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:19:36 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
    From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Since you steel-tube builders are here, I have a question. I have some 4130 tubing (for another project) that has gone from Oregon to Texas, spent 9 years down there in the humidity, and is now back in Oregon and now shows some surface rust. Do you go ahead and cut, weld, and fabricate your part or assembly with the tubing as-is and then bead blast the whole thing when it's done, or do you clean the material before starting to work on it? The corrosion would be inside the tubing as well as outside, so if an assembly is made, the corrosion could be trapped inside. [And just to pre-empt the comment that I already know Mikee is going to make, I don't have Tony's books here at work with me or I would look there first!] -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot; A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414750#414750


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:43:45 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - rudder cable routing...
    From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
    Yes I am thinking about rudder stops. I have some thoughts about adding a part to the pivot bar but I want to get it all welded up and working before I do anything rash....! (one step at a thyme...!) -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=414751#414751




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