---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/09/13: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:07 AM - Aluminium Leading Edges (Peter Johnson) 2. 03:24 AM - Re: Re: beauty shot at 25 months (danhelsper@aol.com) 3. 04:16 AM - Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges (curtdm(at)gmail.com) 4. 04:29 AM - Re: Re: beauty shot at 25 months (Jack) 5. 04:30 AM - Re: Re: beauty shot at 25 months (Jack Phillips) 6. 05:24 AM - Re: Aluminium Leading Edges (Gary Boothe) 7. 05:41 AM - Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges (Bill Church) 8. 05:51 AM - Re: beauty shot at 25 months (John Francis) 9. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Rib Support Pieces (Ryan Mueller) 10. 07:12 AM - Re: Aluminium Leading Edges (l.morlock) 11. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: beauty shot at 25 months (Ken Bickers) 12. 10:40 AM - fuselage side (aviken) 13. 11:23 AM - Re: Aluminium Leading Edges (proplock) 14. 11:30 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 12/08/13 (Bruce Kirk) 15. 11:43 AM - Re: fuselage side (Bill Church) 16. 12:04 PM - Re: fuselage side (womenfly2) 17. 12:09 PM - Re: Rib Support Pieces (womenfly2) 18. 01:56 PM - Re: fuselage side (aviken) 19. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: fuselage side (Ken Bickers) 20. 02:27 PM - Re: Re: fuselage side (Ned Lebens) 21. 03:09 PM - Re: Re: fuselage side (Crandall Eldredge) 22. 04:00 PM - Re: beauty shot at 25 months (Braniff1966) 23. 04:14 PM - Re: Re: fuselage side (John Woods) 24. 04:15 PM - Re: fuselage side (aviken) 25. 05:44 PM - "Unsubscribing" (Gary Boothe) 26. 08:07 PM - Re: fuselage side (Dennis Vetter) 27. 08:17 PM - Re: fuselage side (Braniff1966) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminium Leading Edges From: Peter Johnson Hi Guys, I am getting ready to cover my wings and, as mentioned previously, they have aluminium leading edges. I have cleaned them with Goof Off (very good stuff) and are looking good. The problem I now have is that some of the nails (brads) that were used to hold the ally to the ribs have become loose. They are longer that the thickness of the rib caps trip and probably wont hold if I replaced them. The brads holding the ally to the spar are fine. The leading edge will be covered with anti-chafe tape, felt and then fabric. I will be using the Stewart System. Anybody have any ideas as to what I should do with the rib brads? I did think I would put a couple of new rows of brads in the leading edge and remove the loose ones. What do you think? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://repiet.cpc-world.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months From: danhelsper@aol.com One of the more satisfying wood-shaping exercises were those loooong block plane strokes all the way across the 29 ft. of one-piece leading edge. I ha d initially run that rectangular LE spruce piece thru the table saw a coupl e of times to get some of the meat off, then took after it with the block p lane. Still savoring the moment. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: taildrags Sent: Sun, Dec 8, 2013 10:59 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months The slick way seems to be to use stair handrail stock for the leading edge. I believe this is what Mike Cuy and others have done. The majority of the sh aping is already done, and besides some minor smoothing, it only requires one ang led cut through the table saw to get it ready to attach to the rib noses. Now, I have no idea if handrail material weighs more than just spruce stock (proba bly), but the effort to shape it is reduced. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415171#415171 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:52 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" Here's a photo from West Coast Piet. -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415178#415178 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_361.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:24 AM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months John beautiful work on the wings! Also like the design on the benches. Is that 1" material that faces the front? Would you have a sketch? Take Care, Jack Jack Textor West Des Moines, IA -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Francis Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 3:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months Thought I would tag on to Bobs post with my completed wing. This one is ready to go on the wall until next Spring when I will varnish it. Sure am looking forward to starting on the fuselage. -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415075#415075 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0601_205.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:56 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months I agree, Dan. I had the same experience, walking down the leading edge of my wing with a block plane, shaving off spruce. The whole process took maybe 15 minutes, and spruce is MUCH lighter than a pine stair handrail. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danhelsper@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 6:24 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months One of the more satisfying wood-shaping exercises were those loooong block plane strokes all the way across the 29 ft. of one-piece leading edge. I had initially run that rectangular LE spruce piece thru the table saw a couple of times to get some of the meat off, then took after it with the block plane. Still savoring the moment. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: taildrags Sent: Sun, Dec 8, 2013 10:59 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months The slick way seems to be to use stair handrail stock for the leading edge. I believe this is what Mike Cuy and others have done. The majority of the shaping is already done, and besides some minor smoothing, it only requires one angled cut through the table saw to get it ready to attach to the rib noses. Now, I have no idea if handrail material weighs more than just spruce stock (probably), but the effort to shape it is reduced. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415171#415171 _blank">www.aeroelectric.com " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com ank">www.mrrace.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:34 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aluminium Leading Edges Your solution would be mine! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Johnson Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 2:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminium Leading Edges --> Hi Guys, I am getting ready to cover my wings and, as mentioned previously, they have aluminium leading edges. I have cleaned them with Goof Off (very good stuff) and are looking good. The problem I now have is that some of the nails (brads) that were used to hold the ally to the ribs have become loose. They are longer that the thickness of the rib caps trip and probably wont hold if I replaced them. The brads holding the ally to the spar are fine. The leading edge will be covered with anti-chafe tape, felt and then fabric. I will be using the Stewart System. Anybody have any ideas as to what I should do with the rib brads? I did think I would put a couple of new rows of brads in the leading edge and remove the loose ones. What do you think? Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://repiet.cpc-world.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:01 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges From: "Bill Church" The "U-channel" hinges mentioned by Terry and Skip are much easier to fabricate than the plans version. There's no welding required, and they're easier to install, since they're not so tiny and fiddly (that's a technical term). When I made mine, I had borrowed the idea from Jim Markle, who had borrowed it from the Fly Baby design. The original Fly Baby design is quite a bit larger, and results in a noticeable gap. I made mine smaller, and tried to minimize the gap. Mine are 1/2" wide, and a little under 2" long (1 15/16" to be precise)- designed to utilize a MS20392-2C-65 clevis pin (3/16" diameter, 2 1/32" effective length). I fabricated mine from 16ga (.06") stainless steel, which I had on hand, but 4130 would work just as well. They could even be made from thinner material (18ga). Attached are a few images. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415186#415186 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/my_hinge_assembly_1_186.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/my_hinge_assembly_explode_104.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/my_hinge_assembly_metal_parts_501.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:02 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months From: "John Francis" jack(at)textors.com wrote: > John beautiful work on the wings! Also like the design on the benches. Is that 1" material that faces the front? Would you have a sketch? > Take Care, > Jack > > Jack Textor > West Des Moines, IA > > > -- Jack, These are the EAA standardized work benches. Here is a link to the plans and a sketch.http://www.eaa.org/chapters/resources/articles/work_tables.pdf -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415187#415187 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Support Pieces From: Ryan Mueller Or just use the intended tape for the intended purpose :-) http://www.stewartsystems.aero/products/130/inter-rib-brace-tape-12x36-yd http://www.ceconite.com/articlesecuring.htm (7th paragraph down) On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 11:06 PM, taildrags wrote: > > I believe someone on this list posted that rather than fiddle with wood > pieces for 'stringers', they used some of that fiberglass-reinforced > plastic strapping tape that cardboard boxes are sometimes banded with. Not > the sticky tape that comes on a roll... the stiff white or black stuff. > Weighs next to nothing and you could probably tow a car with it. > > I'm just not sure it's necessary to use those stringers, since the ribs > are all laced to the fabric. The ribs don't have the ability to shift or > deflect once they are laced in place. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415172#415172 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:23 AM PST US From: "l.morlock" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminium Leading Edges I used ring shank nails made of silicon bronze, which reportedly resist woking out and resist corrosion. They can be purchased from www.greenboatstuff.com, but with all the boatbuilders down under, you might find them locally. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Johnson" Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 5:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminium Leading Edges > > > Hi Guys, > > I am getting ready to cover my wings and, as mentioned previously, they > have aluminium leading edges. I have cleaned them with Goof Off (very > good stuff) and are looking good. > > The problem I now have is that some of the nails (brads) that were used to > hold the ally to the ribs have become loose. They are longer that the > thickness of the rib caps trip and probably wont hold if I replaced them. > The brads holding the ally to the spar are fine. > > The leading edge will be covered with anti-chafe tape, felt and then > fabric. I will be using the Stewart System. > > Anybody have any ideas as to what I should do with the rib brads? I did > think I would put a couple of new rows of brads in the leading edge and > remove the loose ones. > > What do you think? > > Cheers > > Peter > Wonthaggi Australia > http://repiet.cpc-world.com > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months From: Ken Bickers I agree. Making long, curled shavings is one of the most satisfying aspects of building a wooden airplane. For me, plan A for my leading edges was the use of a staircase rail. I looked high and low for rails that were in the Mikee recommended shape and long enough (14 feet for my wing panels) but was unsuccessful in finding anything locally that fit the bill. Plan B was to use long pieces of Sitka Spruce. My spars came from Aircraft Spruce and were gorgeous. The shipping cost was very high. Had I thought to buy the pieces for the leading edges at the same time, I suspect the shipping for the leading edge stock would have been a trivial addition to the cost of shipping the spars. So Plan B went the way of Plan A. Plan C was to go with an alternative local solution. I was able to find a couple of long straight grained pieces of Western Hemlock at one of the local lumber/hardware stores. The planks were nominally 1" by 5", but finished were 3/4" by 4 3/4". Using epoxy glue, I laminated the two pieces face-to-face, then using my table saw (I don't have a bandsaw) ripped them into long sections to rough out a trapezoid cross-section. A few hours of quiet work with the hand plane and they were ready to mount. I spent far more time trying to identify the solution to the leading edges than actually fabricating them. Isn't that too often the case? Cheers, Ken On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 5:29 AM, Jack Phillips wrote: > I agree, Dan. I had the same experience, walking down the leading > edge of my wing with a block plane, shaving off spruce. The whole process > took maybe 15 minutes, and spruce is MUCH lighter than a pine stair > handrail. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of * > danhelsper@aol.com > *Sent:* Monday, December 09, 2013 6:24 AM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months > > > One of the more satisfying wood-shaping exercises were those loooong block > plane strokes all the way across the 29 ft. of one-piece leading edge. I > had initially run that rectangular LE spruce piece thru the table saw a > couple of times to get some of the meat off, then took after it with the > block plane. Still savoring the moment. > > > Dan Helsper > > Puryear, TN > > > -----Original Message----- > From: taildrags > To: pietenpol-list > Sent: Sun, Dec 8, 2013 10:59 pm > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months > > > > The slick way seems to be to use stair handrail stock for the leading edge. I > > believe this is what Mike Cuy and others have done. The majority of the shaping > > is already done, and besides some minor smoothing, it only requires one angled > > cut through the table saw to get it ready to attach to the rib noses. Now, I > > have no idea if handrail material weighs more than just spruce stock (probably), > > but the effort to shape it is reduced. > > > -------- > > Oscar Zuniga > > Medford, OR > > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415171#415171 > > > _blank">www.aeroelectric.com > > " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > > ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > > ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com > > ank">www.mrrace.com > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > > *www.buildersbooks.com * > > *www.mypilotstore.com * > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List * > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:05 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuselage side From: "aviken" Ive finished the first side of my fuselage, and I want to take it out of the jig clamps, but I haven't installed any gussets. Do you think it will pull the top joints loose? The glue joints look good but there isn't much surface area on the end of the struts. I know Bernard suggested wrapping wire around the ends , but is that necessary with T88 glue ? I wanted to wait and turn the side over to put on the gussets so I could put them on the top side of next piece. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415218#415218 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:55 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminium Leading Edges From: "proplock" What size nails? 15? -------- A remarkable lad , capable of many things Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415224#415224 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:40 AM PST US From: Bruce Kirk Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 12/08/13 Hi all; if someone can send me drawings or photos of the hinges that Vi cap pler made I own a machine shop and fabrication facility. I could make a pro duction run and sell them at a reasonable price. Also I have a lot of .063 4130 sheet with slight water damage to surface. I can shear to size for you for a lot less that spruce sells it for.=0ABruce =0Abrucekirk@ymail.com=0A =0A=0A=0AOn Monday, December 9, 2013 12:21 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote:=0A =0A*=0A=0A======= ===================0A- Online Versio ns of Today's List Digest Archive=0A============= =============0A=0AToday's complete Pietenpol-List D igest can also be found in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below.- The .html file includes the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation.- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version =0Aof the Pietenpol-List Dig est and can be viewed with a generic text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. =0A=0AHTML Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/d igest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-12-08&Archive =Pietenpol=0A=0AText Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/diges t/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-12-08&Archive=Pi etenpol=0A=0A=0A=================== =====0A- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive=0A== ======================0A=0A=0A- - - - - --------------------------------------------------------- -=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - Pietenpol-List Dig est Archive=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ---=0A- - - - - - - - - - Total Messag es Posted Sun 12/08/13: 16=0A- - - - - ------------------------- ---------------------------------=0A=0A=0AToday's Message Index:=0A-------- --------------=0A=0A- - 1. 04:50 AM - Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges - (Larry Williams)=0A- - 2. 06:11 AM - John's wing- (Douwe Blumber g)=0A- - 3. 07:06 AM - Re: John's wing- (John Francis)=0A- - 4. 07:14 AM - Re: beauty shot at 25 months- (John Francis)=0A- - 5. 08 :04 AM - Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges- (regreen1954)=0A- - 6. 10:3 1 AM - Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges- (jarheadpilot82)=0A- - 7. 11: 33 AM - Re: Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges- (skipgadd@earthlink.net)=0A - - 8. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges- (skipgadd@eart hlink.net)=0A- - 9. 01:16 PM - Re: beauty shot at 25 months- (nightm are)=0A- - 10. 06:12 PM - Rib Support Pieces- (John Francis)=0A- - 11. 07:40 PM - Re: Rib Support Pieces- (jarheadpilot82)=0A- - 12. 07:49 PM - Re: Rib Support Pieces- (jarheadpilot82)=0A- - 13. 08:50 PM - Re: Windshield thickness- (taildrags)=0A- - 14. 08:54 PM - Re: R udder and Elevator Hinges- (taildrags)=0A- - 15. 08:58 PM - Re: beaut y shot at 25 months- (taildrags)=0A- - 16. 09:07 PM - Re: Rib Support Pieces- (taildrags)=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Messa ge 1- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 04:50:58 AM PST US=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges=0AFrom: "Larr y Williams" =0A=0A=0AI have one of the last sets of hinge s that Vi made!!=0AThey are all yours for $4500.00 and they come with a mos tly complete Pietenpol=0ASky Scout project that includes a converted model "A" and a Forrest Lovely brass=0Aradiator.=0A=0A--------=0AL.V.Williams=0AX CG, XCMR,EPP=0AUSHPA, EAA, AMA=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Aht tp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415103#415103=0A=0A=0A_________ _______________________- Message 2- ___________________________________ __=0A=0A=0ATime: 06:11:58 AM PST US=0AFrom: "Douwe Blumberg" =0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: John's wing=0A=0ANice wing John! - Another few seasons and you'll be flying!=0A=0A=0ADouwe=0A=0A=0A_______ _________________________- Message 3- _________________________________ ____=0A=0A=0ATime: 07:06:42 AM PST US=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: John's wing=0AFrom: "John Francis" =0A=0A=0AThanks Douwe.- I just completed my flight training with Emerson Stewart in Waynesville.=0A I know that is where you kept your Piet for a while.- They had one of=0At heir Cubs damaged in a wind storm this year and only had one available for =0Atraining. We even took the Champ up one time.- That really slowed me d own and=0AI found myself flying only twice a month.- Now I am talking wit h Martha Lunken=0Atrying to schedule the check flight around all this snow and crappy weather.=0AI hope we get it in before the month is out.=0A=0A--- -----=0AJohn Francis=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forum s.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415111#415111=0A=0A=0A___________________ _____________- Message 4- _____________________________________=0A=0A =0ATime: 07:14:43 AM PST US=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 2 5 months=0AFrom: "John Francis" =0A=0A=0AThe size reall y depends on the ribs you built.- Here is a better shot of what I=0Adid. - Just measure what you need and buy the board.- I rough shaped it on a table=0Asaw and then used a hand plane to round it.=0A=0A--------=0AJohn F rancis=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.co m/viewtopic.php?p=415112#415112=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums. matronics.com//files/getattachmentaspx_206.jpeg=0A=0A=0A___________________ _____________- Message 5- _____________________________________=0A=0A =0ATime: 08:04:59 AM PST US=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder and Eleva tor Hinges=0AFrom: "regreen1954" =0A=0A=0ALarry,=0AT he price is a little steeper that I thought! :) If I was building a Scout I would=0Ajump at the chance.- Thanks for responding.=0A=0A--------=0ARich Green, CFI=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matroni cs.com/viewtopic.php?p=415119#415119=0A=0A=0A____________________________ ____- Message 6- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 10 :31:34 AM PST US=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges =0AFrom: "jarheadpilot82" =0A=0A=0AWhen I was a t Corvair College in Barnwell SC last month I spent a great deal of=0Atime going over P.F. Beck and Don Harper's Pietenpols. Don used to make and sell =0Ahinges similar to Vi Kapler's design. I asked him if he still made them but=0Ahe said no as he no longer had access to a machine shop. =0A=0AHe did , however, suggest an alternative that just about any one could make. I hav e=0Aincluded a very rough drawing I made of his idea. No laughing at my art work,=0ADouwe.=0A=0AYour thoughts?=0A=0A--------=0ASemper Fi,=0A=0ATerry Ha nd=0AAthens, GA=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.mat ronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415131#415131=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp: //forums.matronics.com//files/image_798.jpg=0A=0A=0A_______________________ _________- Message 7- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATim e: 11:33:24 AM PST US=0AFrom: "skipgadd@earthlink.net" =0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges=0A=0A=0A I have a set of hinges similar to Don's alternative design. Mine are .063 =0A4130 and 1/2", otherwise the same, made by my friend Gary Barger. I thin k=0Awe got the plan from a guru at Brodhead years ago. I got a set of Don's =0Aaluminum hinges so I don't need these. They are already in primer.=0A$25 . post paid to cont US. Write me off list.=0ASkip=0A=0A=0A> [Original Messa ge]=0A> From: jarheadpilot82 =0A> To: =0A> Date: 12/8/2013 1:33:03 PM=0A> Subject: Pietenpol -List: Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges=0A>=0A=0A >=0A> When I was at Corvair College in Barnwell SC last month I spent a gre at=0Adeal of time going over P.F. Beck and Don Harper's Pietenpols. Don use d to=0Amake and sell hinges similar to Vi Kapler's design. I asked him if h e still=0Amade them but he said no as he no longer had access to a machine shop. =0A>=0A> He did, however, suggest an alternative that just about any one could=0Amake. I have included a very rough drawing I made of his idea. No laughing=0Aat my artwork, Douwe.=0A>=0A> Your thoughts?=0A>=0A> -------- =0A> Semper Fi,=0A>=0A> Terry Hand=0A> Athens, GA=0A>=0A>=0A> Read this top ic online here:=0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41513 1#415131=0A>=0A>=0A> Attachments: =0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com//fil es/image_798.jpg=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Messag e 8- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 12:36:30 PM PST US=0AFrom: "skipgadd@earthlink.net" =0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges=0A=0A=0AThey are sold.=0ASk ip=0A=0A=0A> [Original Message]=0A> From: skipgadd@earthlink.net =0A> To: =0A> Date: 12/8/2013 2 :34:49 PM=0A> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges =0A>=0A=0A>=0A> I have a set of hinges similar to D on's alternative design. Mine are .063=0A> 4130 and 1/2", otherwise the sam e, made by my friend Gary Barger. I think=0A> we got the plan from a guru a t Brodhead years ago. I got a set of Don's=0A> aluminum hinges so I don't n eed these. They are already in primer.=0A> $25. post paid to cont US. Write me off list.=0A> Skip=0A>=0A>=0A> > [Original Message]=0A> > From: jarhead pilot82 =0A> > To: =0A> > Date: 12/8/2013 1:33:03 PM=0A> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudd er and Elevator Hinges=0A> >=0A> =0A> >=0A> > W hen I was at Corvair College in Barnwell SC last month I spent a great=0A> deal of time going over P.F. Beck and Don Harper's Pietenpols. Don used to =0A> make and sell hinges similar to Vi Kapler's design. I asked him if he =0Astill=0A> made them but he said no as he no longer had access to a machi ne shop. =0A> >=0A> > He did, however, suggest an alternative that just abo ut any one could=0A> make. I have included a very rough drawing I made of h is idea. No laughing=0A> at my artwork, Douwe.=0A> >=0A> > Your thoughts? =0A> >=0A> > --------=0A> > Semper Fi,=0A> >=0A> > Terry Hand=0A> > Athens, GA=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> > Read this topic online here:=0A> >=0A> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415131#415131=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> > Attachments: =0A> >=0A> > http://forums.matronics.com//files /image_798.jpg=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A________ ________________________- Message 9- __________________________________ ___=0A=0A=0ATime: 01:16:58 PM PST US=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months=0AFrom: "nightmare" =0A=0A=0A Thats amazing. No swearing. Prozac must be kicking in.=0A=0A--------=0APaul Donahue=0AStarted 8-3-12=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online h ere:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415150#415150=0A=0A =0A________________________________- Message 10- ______________________ ______________=0A=0A=0ATime: 06:12:25 PM PST US=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Rib Support Pieces=0AFrom: "John Francis" =0A=0A=0AI mi ght be able to check the archives if I knew the proper name for these longi tudinal=0Arib supports.- Some have them and some dont. I dont see them in the plans=0Aand was wondering if they are necessary?=0A=0A--------=0AJohn Francis=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.c om/viewtopic.php?p=415161#415161=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums .matronics.com//files/img_0917_182.jpg=0A=0A=0A____________________________ ____- Message 11- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 07 :40:45 PM PST US=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Support Pieces=0AFrom: "jarheadpilot82" =0A=0A=0AJohn,=0A=0AI think th ey are typically referred to as, simply, verticals.=0A=0ABut I did not chec k the archives either. [Wink]=0A=0A--------=0ASemper Fi,=0A=0ATerry Hand=0A Athens, GA=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronic s.com/viewtopic.php?p=415167#415167=0A=0A=0A_____________________________ ___- Message 12- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 07: 49:48 PM PST US=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Support Pieces=0AFrom: " jarheadpilot82" =0A=0A=0AStringers, I bellieve is the correct term, although, someone please chime in if=0AI am incorrect. =0A=0AThe attached screenshot is from page 1-13 of the Handbook linked belo w-=0A=0Ahttp://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/ amt_airframe_handbook/media/ama_ch01.pdf=0A=0A--------=0ASemper Fi,=0A=0ATe rry Hand=0AAthens, GA=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://foru ms.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415168#415168=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2013_12_08_at_104635_pm_9 19.png=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 13- __________ __________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 08:50:58 PM PST US=0ASubject: Piet enpol-List: Re: Windshield thickness=0AFrom: "taildrags" =0A=0A=0AI've been working on various squawks and "upgrades" (?) to my airplane.- One thing=0Athat was bugging me was a slight fuel leak at one of the fittings on the tank,=0Awhich is inside the front cockpit, and it i s a royal pain to work down under=0Athere by climbing into the cockpit inve rted and in the shape of a pretzel.=0ASo, I bit the bullet and pulled off t he top cowling so I could pull the fuel=0Atank to rework the shutoff valve and tank fittings.=0A=0AWhile I had the top cowling off, I figured I might as well make a new front windscreen=0Asince it's got a bit of crazing and s cratches that make it nearly impossible=0Ato see through when flying into t he sun.- And flying into the sun is where=0AI'm most vulnerable to the ra king fire from the Hun's machine guns ;o)- There=0Aare also some cracks s tarting to spread out from the holes where the mounting=0Abolts (AN3) are, along the base.- The windscreens on my airplane are .125"=0APlexiglas and are quite stiff.=0A=0ABased on the discussion here on the list last month, I decided to try .080" thick=0Aplexi this time, since the 1/8" stuff is ve ry hard to bend into the required=0Aarc, and it seems like the forced bend has contributed to the cracks at the=0Amounting holes.- I bought a 2'x2' piece of .080" plexi from Aircraft Spruce for=0A$11.85 and laid out the old windscreen on it as a template.- Turns out I can=0Aget two windscreens o ut of this piece of plexi, so I think I'm going to just=0Ago ahead and repl ace both front and back and get it over with.- Today I cut out=0Athe firs t one with my Dremel, using the small abrasive cutoff wheels that you=0Acan get for them.- Piece of cake.- Once I get them installed and flying, I 'll=0Areport back on any differences in stiffness or deflection in flight, but I don't=0Athink there will be any.- Not bad... 6 bucks apiece for new windscreens.=0A=0A--------=0AOscar Zuniga=0AMedford, OR=0AAir Camper NX41C C "Scout"=0AA75 power=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ah ttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415169#415169=0A=0A=0A________ ________________________- Message 14- _________________________________ ___=0A=0A=0ATime: 08:54:19 PM PST US=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder and Elevator Hinges=0AFrom: "taildrags" =0A=0A=0ADoe s anyone have a photo of the hinges that Vi used to sell?- Just the hinge s,=0Anot installed in place yet?=0A=0AThanks.=0A=0A--------=0AOscar Zuniga =0AMedford, OR=0AAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0AA75 power=0A=0A=0ARe ad this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p =415170#415170=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 15- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 08:58:43 PM PST US=0ASub ject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months=0AFrom: "taildrags" =0A=0A=0AThe slick way seems to be to use stair handrail stock for the leading edge.- I=0Abelieve this is what Mike Cuy and other s have done.- The majority of the shaping=0Ais already done, and besides some minor smoothing, it only requires one angled=0Acut through the table s aw to get it ready to attach to the rib noses.- Now,=0AI have no idea if handrail material weighs more than just spruce stock (probably),=0Abut the effort to shape it is reduced.=0A=0A--------=0AOscar Zuniga=0AMedford, OR =0AAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0AA75 power=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415171#4151 71=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 16- ______________ ______________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 09:07:12 PM PST US=0ASubject: Pietenpo l-List: Re: Rib Support Pieces=0AFrom: "taildrags" =0A=0A=0AI believe someone on this list posted that rather than fiddle with wood pieces=0Afor 'stringers', they used some of that fiberglass-reinforce d plastic strapping=0Atape that cardboard boxes are sometimes banded with. - Not the sticky tape that=0Acomes on a roll... the stiff white or black stuff.- Weighs next to nothing=0Aand you could probably tow a car with it .=0A=0AI'm just not sure it's necessary to use those stringers, since the r ibs are all=0Alaced to the fabric.- The ribs don't have the ability to sh ift or deflect once=0Athey are laced in place.=0A=0A--------=0AOscar Zuniga =0AMedford, OR=0AAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0AA75 power=0A=0A=0ARe ad this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========================0A ===================== ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:58 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuselage side From: "Bill Church" Here's a question: Why would you not install any gussets? Pretty much all of the joint strength comes from the gussets. And the tension in the curved bottom longeron will want to pull the joints apart. I would suggest installing all of the gussets (except the BIG cockpit sides, which should be left off as long as possible) on your fuselage sides while still in the jig. Make sure you make one right hand and one left hand fuselage side. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415227#415227 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:28 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuselage side From: "womenfly2" Install the gussets. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415232#415232 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:38 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Support Pieces From: "womenfly2" The inner "X" lacing with cotton tape was done just to hold the ribs in position and stop them from moving while the covering was applied. As stated above, once stitched to the covering they are redundant. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415233#415233 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:09 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuselage side From: "aviken" I wanted to use my jig as is for the other side, if so wouldn't I have to put the gussets underneath one side or the other . I know the small gussets go on the inside from the firewall to the pilot seat back then both sides back to the tail. I guess I could re-do my jig for a mirror image of the first side, so I could tack the gussets on the out side. Does my thinking make any sense? And I did want to wait till much later to put the big gusset in place. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415245#415245 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuselage side From: Ken Bickers One option is to put the small interior gussets on one side and the full outside ply panel on the other. You'd sacrifice some access, but only some. (Don't tell anyone but I covered both sides completely and still somehow managed.) Cheers, Ken On Dec 9, 2013, at 4:55 PM, "aviken" wrote: > > I wanted to use my jig as is for the other side, if so wouldn't I have to put the gussets underneath one side or the other . I know the small gussets go on the inside from the firewall to the pilot seat back then both sides back to the tail. I guess I could re-do my jig for a mirror image of the first side, so I could tack the gussets on the out side. Does my thinking make any sense? And I did want to wait till much later to put the big gusset in place. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415245#415245 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:28 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuselage side From: Ned Lebens When I glued up my fuselage sides in the jig, I only put gussets on the top, not underneath. I also left the plywood sides off. This means that when I glued up the left side, there were no gussets from the firewall to the pilot's seat back. I didn't have any problems with the glue joints (using T88) opening up. Will be finishing up the right side tonight. Ned Lebens On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:55 PM, aviken wrote: > > I wanted to use my jig as is for the other side, if so wouldn't I have to > put the gussets underneath one side or the other . I know the small > gussets go on the inside from the firewall to the pilot seat back then both > sides back to the tail. I guess I could re-do my jig for a mirror image of > the first side, so I could tack the gussets on the out side. Does my > thinking make any sense? And I did want to wait till much later to put the > big gusset in place. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415245#415245 > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuselage side From: Crandall Eldredge Please remove this email from your list. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Ken Bickers wrote: > > One option is to put the small interior gussets on one side and the full > outside ply panel on the other. You'd sacrifice some access, but only > some. (Don't tell anyone but I covered both sides completely and still > somehow managed.) Cheers, Ken > > On Dec 9, 2013, at 4:55 PM, "aviken" wrote: > > > > > I wanted to use my jig as is for the other side, if so wouldn't I have > to put the gussets underneath one side or the other . I know the small > gussets go on the inside from the firewall to the pilot seat back then both > sides back to the tail. I guess I could re-do my jig for a mirror image of > the first side, so I could tack the gussets on the out side. Does my > thinking make any sense? And I did want to wait till much later to put the > big gusset in place. > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415245#415245 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:28 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beauty shot at 25 months From: "Braniff1966" my ribs are stock... thanks for the info jim] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415262#415262 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuselage side From: John Woods Aviken, I would use the same jig to make sure both sides are the same. For one side install the gusset plates while in the jig. For the other side use the wire tie to quarantee the joints don't part before removing from jig and until you install the gusset plates. Simple. JohnW Perth, Australia On 10 December 2013 07:55, aviken wrote: > > I wanted to use my jig as is for the other side, if so wouldn't I have to > put the gussets underneath one side or the other . I know the small > gussets go on the inside from the firewall to the pilot seat back then both > sides back to the tail. I guess I could re-do my jig for a mirror image of > the first side, so I could tack the gussets on the out side. Does my > thinking make any sense? And I did want to wait till much later to put the > big gusset in place. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415245#415245 > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:57 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuselage side From: "aviken" Thanks everyone, I am going to wire the ends of the longerons together and carefully swap sides then tack and glue the gussets in place. Then the next side will be easy. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415264#415264 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:22 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Unsubscribing" Crandall - you need to unsubscribe using the matronics link at the bottom of the page. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Crandall Eldredge Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 3:09 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuselage side Please remove this email from your list. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Ken Bickers wrote: One option is to put the small interior gussets on one side and the full outside ply panel on the other. You'd sacrifice some access, but only some. (Don't tell anyone but I covered both sides completely and still somehow managed.) Cheers, Ken On Dec 9, 2013, at 4:55 PM, "aviken" wrote: > > I wanted to use my jig as is for the other side, if so wouldn't I have to put the gussets underneath one side or the other . I know the small gussets go on the inside from the firewall to the pilot seat back then both sides back to the tail. I guess I could re-do my jig for a mirror image of the first side, so I could tack the gussets on the out side. Does my thinking make any sense? And I did want to wait till much later to put the big gusset in place. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415245#415245 > > ========== ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com et="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com "_blank">www.mrrace.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution le, List Admin. ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuselage side From: "Dennis Vetter" We have always glued the fuselage sides up in the same jig. No gussets. Then sand them on both sides with a big flat sanding block, like a 1x4, to clean and true up everything. At that point make a left and right side by adding gussets and side sheeting. It's worked four times. :D Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415285#415285 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuselage side From: "Braniff1966" do like the guys say...install gussets at major points. t88 is a great glue. hyde Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415286#415286 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.