---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/14/13: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:30 AM - leading edges (Douwe Blumberg) 2. 09:34 AM - Re: Bingelis Books, free shipping (Larry Williams) 3. 09:35 AM - Re: C85-12 (taildrags) 4. 09:39 AM - Re: leading edges (taildrags) 5. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: leading edges (Crandall Eldredge) 6. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: C85-12 (Steven Dortch) 7. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: C85-12 (Steven Dortch) 8. 10:17 AM - Re: Aluminium Leading Edges (Jerry Dotson) 9. 10:30 AM - Re: Re: C85-12 (gliderx5@comcast.net) 10. 01:23 PM - Re: Bingelis Books, free shipping (aviken) 11. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Aluminium Leading Edges (Peter Johnson) 12. 02:53 PM - Re: leading edges (Peter Johnson) 13. 02:55 PM - wood substitution (aviken) 14. 03:30 PM - Re: wood substitution (jarheadpilot82) 15. 04:01 PM - prop finish (GNflyer) 16. 04:31 PM - Re: wood substitution (tools) 17. 05:47 PM - Re: wood substitution (taildrags) 18. 07:35 PM - Re: Re: wood substitution (Clif Dawson) 19. 08:03 PM - Re: C85-12 (TriScout) 20. 11:06 PM - Re: leading edges (Braniff1966) 21. 11:12 PM - Re: Aluminium Leading Edges (Braniff1966) 22. 11:18 PM - Re: Re: leading edges (Gary Boothe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:42 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edges Just a thought I wanted to "put out there" for people still building regarding metal leading edges. RE-PIET originally had metal leading edges, and during her rebuild, Don rebuilt the wings and replaced the metal with ply leading edges. I really cannot tell you how much stiffness that added to the wing structure. It was quite noticeable when lifting and moving the wing panels around. If I were building again, I would consider nothing but a ply leading edge as it becomes part of the structure whereas metal really does not. $.02 Douwe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:04 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bingelis Books, free shipping From: "Larry Williams" Be careful what you espouse. If everybody had the Bingelis books and a copy of AC 43-13 there wouldn't be any reason for this forum to exist because all of the recurring questions would be answered before they could be posted and everyone would be an expert! Then where would we be??? -------- L.V.Williams XCG, XCMR,EPP USHPA, EAA, AMA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415549#415549 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: C85-12 From: "taildrags" Bill; I stand corrected. You are absolutely right... the A80 is the slug, not the C85. Carry on! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415550#415550 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edges From: "taildrags" Plywood leading edges will certainly provide more wing stiffness than the flattened oatmeal containers that Mr. Pietenpol is said to have used to shape the leading edges originally. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415551#415551 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edges From: Crandall Eldredge can you take me off your list please On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 10:39 AM, taildrags wrote: > > Plywood leading edges will certainly provide more wing stiffness than the > flattened oatmeal containers that Mr. Pietenpol is said to have used to > shape the leading edges originally. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415551#415551 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: C85-12 From: Steven Dortch Somewhere there is a good, pretty concise history of the Small Continentals >From A40,A50, A65, A75, A80, C90 on through the O200. I have looked but can't find it. Steve D On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:35 AM, taildrags wrote: > > Bill; I stand corrected. You are absolutely right... the A80 is the slug, > not the C85. > > Carry on! > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415550#415550 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: C85-12 From: Steven Dortch What is the problem with the A80? Blue Skies, Steve D On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Somewhere there is a good, pretty concise history of the Small > Continentals > From A40,A50, A65, A75, A80, C90 on through the O200. I have looked but > can't find it. > > Steve D > > > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:35 AM, taildrags wrote: > >> >> Bill; I stand corrected. You are absolutely right... the A80 is the >> slug, not the C85. >> >> Carry on! >> >> -------- >> Oscar Zuniga >> Medford, OR >> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" >> A75 power >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415550#415550 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminium Leading Edges From: "Jerry Dotson" Oscar, I buy the CA in 2 oz bottles. I don't use the thin much. It get in places I don't want it. The CA+ medium is what I use most of the time. The CA- thick stuff is too thick and slow for me. I seldom use it. Free tip----keep it in the shop fridge and shelf life is very long. It will fog plexiglass bad. Don't even ask how I know. Set time varies according to the material. Balsa sets quick. Most hardwoods have plenty of time to align. It glues rubber real good. I have made "O" rings from stock or just cut a big one and butt glue it. High moisture content of wood accelerates set time too. Dampen the pieces and use thin for near instant set. I have seen smoke/steam rise from a joint like that. Jerry -------- Jerry Dotson First flight June 16,2012 Flying in phase 2 Lycoming O-235 C2C Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415558#415558 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:30:08 AM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: C85-12 My friend Jack Erickson has complied an amazing web site full of basic info on all sorts of small aircraft engines. http://home.comcast.net/~aeroengine/ Malcolm Morrison ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dortch" Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 1:00:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: C85-12 Somewhere there is a good, pretty concise history of the Small Continentals >From A40,A50, A65, A75, A80, C90 on through the O200. I have looked but can't find it. Steve D On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 11:35 AM, taildrags < taildrags@hotmail.com > wrote: Bill; I stand corrected. You are absolutely right... the A80 is the slug, not the C85. Carry on! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415550#415550 =========== ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com et="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com "_blank">www.mrrace.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution le, List Admin. =========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =========== http://forums.matronics.com =========== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:38 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bingelis Books, free shipping From: "aviken" Just sent my daughter a copy of the address. She was wondering what she could get me for Christmas. Do you think I was being too pushy? Ha Ha. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415572#415572 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminium Leading Edges From: Peter Johnson Thanks Guys, Using a glue to hold the nails in place did cross my mind, I didnt think of SuperGlue though! Thanks Peter On 15/12/2013 5:17 am, "Jerry Dotson" wrote: > > >Oscar, >I buy the CA in 2 oz bottles. I don't use the thin much. It get in places >I don't want it. The CA+ medium is what I use most of the time. The CA- >thick stuff is too thick and slow for me. I seldom use it. Free >tip----keep it in the shop fridge and shelf life is very long. It will >fog plexiglass bad. Don't even ask how I know. >Set time varies according to the material. Balsa sets quick. Most >hardwoods have plenty of time to align. It glues rubber real good. I have >made "O" rings from stock or just cut a big one and butt glue it. High >moisture content of wood accelerates set time too. Dampen the pieces and >use thin for near instant set. I have seen smoke/steam rise from a joint >like that. >Jerry > >-------- >Jerry Dotson > >First flight June 16,2012 >Flying in phase 2 >Lycoming O-235 C2C >Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44 >do not archive > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415558#415558 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edges From: Peter Johnson Douwe, I agree, if I were building new again then I would use a full ply leading edge. If you remember, I had a =B3mishap=B2 and slammed my wing with the ply leading edge into a fence post. The wing won! Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com From: Douwe Blumberg Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edges Just a thought I wanted to =B3put out there=B2 for people still building regarding metal leading edges. RE-PIET originally had metal leading edges, and during her rebuild, Don rebuilt the wings and replaced the metal with ply leading edges. I really cannot tell you how much stiffness that added to the wing structure. It was quite noticeable when lifting and moving the wing panels around. If I were building again, I would consider nothing but a ply leading edge a s it becomes part of the structure whereas metal really does not. $.02 Douwe > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood substitution From: "aviken" I have finished both sides of my fuselage, it appears I may run short of Spruce for the horizontal cross pieces. I was thinking of using my remaining spruce from the tail forward, then if needed substitute either good fir or poplar. Couldn't find a discussion on this but I know there has to have been, What is the thought here. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415580#415580 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood substitution From: "jarheadpilot82" aviken, I have attached a snapshot of the page in the AC 43.13_1b that discusses the various properties of wood. As you can see from the chart, poplar is not a direct substitute for Spruce. Also, I am attaching a link to a downloadable copy of the AC 43.13. You can download the entire reference, and it will answer many, if not most of your questions. That is not to discount the knowledge of many of these experienced builders (I am certainly NOT in that group), but it gives you a ready reference at your finger tips as opposed to asking and then waiting for an answer. http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_43.13-1B_Full.pdf -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415584#415584 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2013_12_14_at_61820_pm_911.png ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: prop finish From: "GNflyer" who was it that received an un finished prop from Cloudcars? I would like to hear how it went as far as getting it smoothed up and coated. I am getting one in before long hopefully and It would be good to visit with someone who has been down that road.there was even some talk of testing it in the rough condition but I don't know if that was ever done. I don't believe I want to do that but interesting to think about. if it's not too early to mention it- Merry Christmas to all. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415588#415588 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:55 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood substitution From: "tools" I had no qualms scarfing in some southern yellow pine that graded well above aircraft standards (defects, growth rings, runout). It's stronger in all aspects, glues well and swells/shrinks nearly the same, so there should be no stress in the glue joints with seasonal moisture variation. Given the increased density and how much I used, I calculated my plane increased some 6 oz in weight due to the substitution. Given failures occurred where bolt holes exist, the increase in strength of the substituted wood made sense anyway. Substituting as close to the CG as possible as you mention, I see no problems with your plan. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415589#415589 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:13 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood substitution From: "taildrags" The excerpt from AC43.13 says poplar is slightly less strong than spruce "except in compression and crushing". Horizontal framing members are in compression, no? Besides all that, I've heard it said that the stock Pietenpol fuselage is heck for stout anyway, so if it were my airplane I wouldn't bat an eyelash before substituting poplar or fir for spruce in some of the framing members. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415591#415591 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:21 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood substitution Go here; http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-06/Tools_and_Tips.html Scroll down page near bottom. See Forest Products Laboratory chart of wood strength, weight comparison. Clif Q: Is it safe to run around in the bushes in Canada ? ( Sweden ) A: So it's true what they say about Swedes. > aviken, http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_43.13-1B_Full.pdf> Terry Hand ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:20 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: C85-12 From: "TriScout" ...in anycase, it sold fast today. Had an engine mount, everything..even the baffling was still attached...they were asking $4400. Don't know if the buyer low-balled the price or not, but he got a good deal. I went there today. I was contemplating buying it, but it was too late. I didn't need an engine, but C85's are in demand, too good to pass up. -------- KLNC A65-8 N2308C AN Hardware Airframe 724TT W72CK-42 Sensenich Standard Factory GN-1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415595#415595 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:46 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edges From: "Braniff1966" I have both AL and plywood... how do you form over the blunt nose of the ribs with plywood. im lost almost have wing 2 finished and stumped on this Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415597#415597 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:50 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminium Leading Edges From: "Braniff1966" use slow cure and if necessary a kicker. get the kicker at a hobby shop also have a good grade of debonder around to fix what you screwup like getting your fingers stuck or dropping a big gob in lap or your eye. trust me it will happen Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415598#415598 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:01 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edges There are various ways. The attached photo shows the leading edge piece that I used. It also has a dado that receives the plywood. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Braniff1966 Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 11:06 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: leading edges I have both AL and plywood... how do you form over the blunt nose of the ribs with plywood. im lost almost have wing 2 finished and stumped on this Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415597#415597 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.