---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/16/13: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:12 AM - 2013 List of Contributors (Matt Dralle) 2. 07:52 AM - Re: prop finish (Michael Perez) 3. 07:59 AM - Re: prop finish (Scott Knowlton) 4. 10:02 AM - walking beam streamlined tube alternative (nightmare) 5. 10:04 AM - Re: prop finish (Steven Dortch) 6. 10:09 AM - A65 eyebrow cowlings (Steven Dortch) 7. 10:18 AM - Re: A65 eyebrow cowlings (Jack Phillips) 8. 11:53 AM - Re: walking beam streamlined tube alternative (skipgadd@earthlink.net) 9. 01:23 PM - Re: prop finish (Scott Knowlton) 10. 02:29 PM - Re: A65 eyebrow cowlings (dgaldrich) 11. 05:24 PM - Re: walking beam streamlined tube alternative (nightmare) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:20 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: 2013 List of Contributors Dear Listers, The 2013 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of weeks ago and it's time that I published this year's List of Contributors. It is the people on this list that directly make these Email Lists and Forums possible! Their generous Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running! You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I also want to thank Andy, Bob, Corbin, George, and Jon for their generous support through the supply of many great gifts this year!! These guys have some excellent products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites: Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com Corbin Glowacki - My Pilot Store - http://www.mypilotstore.com George Race - Race Consulting - http://www.mrrace.com Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com And finally, I'm proud to present The 2013 Fund Raiser List of Contributors: http://www.matronics.com/loc/2013.html Thank you again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:53 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prop finish That would be me. I received my propeller from Jay a couple months ago in the rough. Jay included a note asking that I call him prior to doing anything on the propeller, so I did. That was when the conversation came up about leaving the machining scallops on it. We had a very nice, detailed conversation and from that, I decided to leave the prop. as received...VERY LITTLE sanding, not worth mentioning really, almost enough just to clean it up from being handled. (skin oils) I stained, painted and varnished the prop. and left all of the machining marks on it. The "fields"...the area Jay calls the glass coated tips...were not sanded much either, just painted and varnished. I personally am not a big fan of smooth glossy finishes on some items, and leaving the propeller as is and staining, left a very nice, "aged" look with rich texture and color...just what I wanted. Theory is that the scallops act like a bird's feathers, dimples on a golf ball, or VGs, providing a better boundary layer on the airfoil. Jay told me that others leaving the scallops noted better performance. I figure that later, if needed, I can always remove the scallops... not so easy to add them after sanding them off. My propeller is now finished, balanced and on the plane. (not permanent as of yet, working on tracking it now.) Very happy with how it looks, verdict still out on how it performs, but I have no doubt it will be just fine. Feel free to contact me if you want to chat further. Merry Christmas. If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Michael Perez Pietenpol HINT Videos Karetaker Aero www.karetakeraero.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prop finish From: Scott Knowlton I'm awaiting the completion of my Cloudcars prop as well and would love to see a pic or two of yours finished Michael. Scott Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 16, 2013, at 7:56 AM, "Michael Perez" wrote: > > > That would be me. I received my propeller from Jay a couple months ago in the rough. Jay included a note asking that I call him prior to doing anything on the propeller, so I did. That was when the conversation came up about leaving the machining scallops on it. We had a very nice, detailed conversation and from that, I decided to leave the prop. as received...VERY LITTLE sanding, not worth mentioning really, almost enough just to clean it up from being handled. (skin oils) I stained, painted and varnished the prop. and left all of the machining marks on it. The "fields"...the area Jay calls the glass coated tips...were not sanded much either, just painted and varnished. I personally am not a big fan of smooth glossy finishes on some items, and leaving the propeller as is and staining, left a very nice, "aged" look with rich texture and color...just what I wanted. > > Theory is that the scallops act like a bird's feathers, dimples on a golf ball, or VGs, providing a better boundary layer on the airfoil. Jay told me that others leaving the scallops noted better performance. > > I figure that later, if needed, I can always remove the scallops... not so easy to add them after sanding them off. > > My propeller is now finished, balanced and on the plane. (not permanent as of yet, working on tracking it now.) Very happy with how it looks, verdict still out on how it performs, but I have no doubt it will be just fine. > > Feel free to contact me if you want to chat further. > > Merry Christmas. > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Michael Perez > Pietenpol HINT Videos > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:02:46 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: walking beam streamlined tube alternative From: "nightmare" Im sure this has been covered but cant seem to find. What is common round tube used in substitute of streamlined tube for the walking beam? Wall thickness and outer diam please. Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415748#415748 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prop finish From: Steven Dortch Scott, It was my aerodynamacist buddy who explained how the scallops create a turbulence right next to the skin that is slicker than letting the air go across a smooth surface. This holds the boundary layer closer to the airfoil of the prop and thus provides better "lift" which translates into thrust in this case. it is somewhat counter intuitive but there it is. Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:05 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 eyebrow cowlings From: Steven Dortch Aircraft Spruce saves the day again. Remember, I am restoring/reassembling a plane I did not disassemble. So I spend a lot of time figuring out where things go. For the life of me I could not figure out how the eyebrow cowlings went on, They interfered with the fancy old style sparkplugs and leads John K. had put on the engine. Nothing fit. I searched the internet and could not see enough detail to see what I needed. Then I saw a set a eyebrows that Aircraft spruce has for sale ($464) and lo and behold, there was a set of brackets that explained it all. I then dug in the box of extra stuff John gave me and found the eyebrow cowling brackets for this plane. That additional spacing fixed everything. However, I am reasonably certain that I should not undo the nuts holding the jugs on to mount this bracket. However there are not enough threads left for the bracket and a full sized nut. What do y'all do? Put a thinner nut on? Blue Skies Steve D ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:18:05 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: A65 eyebrow cowlings Steve, I put my brackets on the cylinder studs and then put the nuts back on. Be sure to torque them per the engine overhaul manual. Also, be certain your brackets are steel, not aluminum. My first brackets were aluminum and I found that in about 50 hours the nuts got loose. Good way to blow a jug! I mentioned that to an old-time Cub guy and said, yeah you've got to use steel. Aluminum will always "work" enough to let the nut get loose. Good luck! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Dortch Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 1:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 eyebrow cowlings Aircraft Spruce saves the day again. Remember, I am restoring/reassembling a plane I did not disassemble. So I spend a lot of time figuring out where things go. For the life of me I could not figure out how the eyebrow cowlings went on, They interfered with the fancy old style sparkplugs and leads John K. had put on the engine. Nothing fit. I searched the internet and could not see enough detail to see what I needed. Then I saw a set a eyebrows that Aircraft spruce has for sale ($464) and lo and behold, there was a set of brackets that explained it all. I then dug in the box of extra stuff John gave me and found the eyebrow cowling brackets for this plane. That additional spacing fixed everything. However, I am reasonably certain that I should not undo the nuts holding the jugs on to mount this bracket. However there are not enough threads left for the bracket and a full sized nut. What do y'all do? Put a thinner nut on? Blue Skies Steve D ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:28 AM PST US From: "skipgadd@earthlink.net" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: walking beam streamlined tube alternative Paul, I made mine like Pietenpol control horns, .032 or 22 ga edge welded. Made somewhat like Ken Perkins design, it is suppose to help out with the elevator cable slackness. It is 8 1/2" long, 1 1/4" wide in the main body. The aft holes are 7 1/4" apart(the same as the elevator horn), the front holes are 7 3/4" apart. My plane has not flown yet, hopfully in the next year or two. Skip > [Original Message] > From: nightmare > To: > Date: 12/16/2013 1:10:21 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: walking beam streamlined tube alternative > > > Im sure this has been covered but cant seem to find. What is common round tube used in substitute of streamlined tube for the walking beam? Wall thickness and outer diam please. Paul > > -------- > Paul Donahue > Started 8-3-12 > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415748#415748 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prop finish From: Scott Knowlton Thanks Steve. Very encouraging! Scott Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 16, 2013, at 10:08 AM, "Steven Dortch" w rote: > > Scott, It was my aerodynamacist buddy who explained how the scallops creat e a turbulence right next to the skin that is slicker than letting the air g o across a smooth surface. This holds the boundary layer closer to the airfo il of the prop and thus provides better "lift" which translates into thrust i n this case. > > it is somewhat counter intuitive but there it is. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:01 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A65 eyebrow cowlings From: "dgaldrich" I believe Continental used Pal nuts to secure them. Only takes a couple of threads. AS&S sells them under MS27151. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415767#415767 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: walking beam streamlined tube alternative From: "nightmare" Great . Thanks Skip -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415771#415771 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.