Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:56 AM - Re: Re: Creative Clamping (Mario Giacummo)
2. 05:59 AM - Re: Ailerons, up and down (nightmare)
3. 06:13 AM - Jake's progress (Douwe Blumberg)
4. 06:35 AM - Re: Ailerons, up and down (Bill Church)
5. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Ailerons, up and down (Scott Knowlton)
6. 07:55 AM - Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha (tools)
7. 08:27 AM - Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha ()
8. 08:40 AM - Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha (Ray Krause)
9. 08:48 AM - Re: Ailerons, up and down (nightmare)
10. 08:52 AM - Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha (nightmare)
11. 08:56 AM - Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha (tools)
12. 09:10 AM - Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha (tools)
13. 10:39 AM - Re: Jake's progress (aerocarjake)
14. 12:47 PM - Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha (jarheadpilot82)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Creative Clamping |
Those are the great clamps I saw/use. you can build them with differents
width, diameter, etc, to have more or less pressure. A simple great idea.
Mario Giacummo
2014/1/3 Clif Dawson <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
> Here, try this. :-)
> And do yourself a favour, put the handles on!!
>
> Clif
>
>>
>> My wife complained when I told her we needed to stop at Harbor freight
>> for more clamps. She thought the arm load I had already bought was
>> sufficient.
>>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons, up and down |
Great question Terry! I added those U.K numbers to my notes and would love to know
if they should be reversed or not. Based on control horn design, it sure looks
like the "up" should be the higher deflection.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416485#416485
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Way to go Jake!
Nice work.
Douwe
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons, up and down |
My assumption would be that it must be a typo. The geometry of the horn will result
in greater upward deflection than downward. And that is the way it should
be.
Here's a clip from Wikipedia (so it MUST be true)
Differential ailerons
By careful design of the mechanical linkages, the up aileron can be made to deflect
more than the down aileron (e.g., US patent 1565097).[33] This helps reduce
the likelihood of a wing tip stall when aileron deflections are made at high
angles of attack. The idea is that the loss of lift associated with the up aileron
carries no penalty while the increase in lift associated with the down
aileron is minimized.
And here's something from a website called Datwiki.net
http://tinyurl.com/m69jkjl
Differential Aileron Travel (airplane Control System)
The difference between the upward and downward travel of an aileron. An aileron
moves a greater number of degrees upward than downward to counteract adverse
yaw. The downward-moving aileron produces both induced and parasite drag, but
the upward-moving aileron produces only parasite drag. To prevent the combined
drag causing the nose of the airplane to start to move toward the down aileron,
the up aileron travels a greater distance, producing enough additional parasite
drag to overcome the induced drag caused by the down aileron. See adverse
yaw.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416490#416490
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons, up and down |
Up aileron is also in turbulent flow (aft of the separation point on the upper
surface of the wing) causing less of a control force. Greater deflection is therefor
a desired condition.
Scott Knowlton
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 3, 2014, at 9:39 AM, "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
> My assumption would be that it must be a typo. The geometry of the horn will
result in greater upward deflection than downward. And that is the way it should
be.
>
> Here's a clip from Wikipedia (so it MUST be true)
>
> Differential ailerons
>
> By careful design of the mechanical linkages, the up aileron can be made to deflect
more than the down aileron (e.g., US patent 1565097).[33] This helps reduce
the likelihood of a wing tip stall when aileron deflections are made at high
angles of attack. The idea is that the loss of lift associated with the up
aileron carries no penalty while the increase in lift associated with the down
aileron is minimized.
>
> And here's something from a website called Datwiki.net
> http://tinyurl.com/m69jkjl
>
>
> Differential Aileron Travel (airplane Control System)
>
> The difference between the upward and downward travel of an aileron. An aileron
moves a greater number of degrees upward than downward to counteract adverse
yaw. The downward-moving aileron produces both induced and parasite drag, but
the upward-moving aileron produces only parasite drag. To prevent the combined
drag causing the nose of the airplane to start to move toward the down aileron,
the up aileron travels a greater distance, producing enough additional parasite
drag to overcome the induced drag caused by the down aileron. See adverse
yaw.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416490#416490
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha |
I'm hosting an event I've done in the past primarily oriented towards helping folks
with projects with tools and skills they may not normally have available.
I've had folks bring broken machine parts, and we either fix them or fabricate
new. Lots of demonstrations on stuff, some applies to Piets, some won't, although
more of it applies that might be obvious. We'll possibly be pouring metal,
aluminum most likely. We could try making hinges... Dynamic balancing, we
could try my IRD Mechanalysis (a notch filter with a strobe setup that's generic,
not specialized towards planes and propellers, but will work fine) balancer.
We'll be playing with an old saw mill (have a poplar tree you need milled
into a Piet kit?). Some machine tools, lathes, mills, shaper. Plenty of woodworking
machines. I've got a wing rib jig and can mill up some materials if
you want to play with that.
I do have a couple model a blocks laying around if someone wants to play with one.
We could strip the block, evaluate the cylinders, even bore and hone...
Could try setting up a line boring jig to machine out the block/caps for inserts.
I've got the tools, have never done it...
I'll have welders, we've tried gas welding aluminum with mixed results... Hopefully
I'll have the TIG welder fixed if you need some stuff welded together, whatever.
Lots of woodworking stuff, making and milling wood gear struts is pretty
easy.
The place is a mess, but there's a fair amount of room so you can just crash where
ever, how ever, the point is to keep it reasonably priced. No fees, registrations,
rsvp's or anything. If you NEED something done, might want to discuss
it a bit so materials are placed, if we need to find some outside skill, we
can try, etc.
I should have a career A&P IA available. He's got LOTS of experience restoring
planes, building motors, etc. Great resource. There's several nice grass strips
within a few miles (my runway is still soft from the leveling work, so it's
probably not usable) and we'll come get ya. Also available is Lafayette GA
less than 10 miles. Ramp space and avgas.
There are hotels near by, rides are easily available, whatever floats your boat.
I'll probably definitely be doing some recover work on 2RN, all the damage is repaired,
just to fix the fabric now. I'll be stripping latex, using Stewart glue
to reattach, etc.
The location is just south of Chickamauga GA (south of Chatt TN). I'll post gps
coordinates later.
My hangar project is SLOW, but finally basically up and roofed...
[img]http://us-mg4.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=2_0_0_1_7556_AIV9w0MAAAvlUsTKXwAAAPhh4K8&pid=2&fid=Inbox&inline=1[/img]
So inclement weather shouldn't slow us down too badly. For northern folks, this
might be a decent break from the C O L D!! Some folks are coming from NJ, IL,
IN. There might be 10 folks, there might be a hundred (expect less couch space
in that case...). Outside of tools and machining, there'll be a fair amount
of eating (pass the hat, grill, get take out, whatever, not getting very formal
here) and drinking.
Cheers,
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416494#416494
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha |
WOW Talk about the old EAA This would be a great place to go to wish i was
younger and lived closer you dont want to adopt a 73 yr old kid do you ?
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: tools
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 10:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha
I'm hosting an event I've done in the past primarily oriented towards
helping folks with projects with tools and skills they may not normally have
available.
I've had folks bring broken machine parts, and we either fix them or
fabricate new. Lots of demonstrations on stuff, some applies to Piets, some
won't, although more of it applies that might be obvious. We'll possibly be
pouring metal, aluminum most likely. We could try making hinges... Dynamic
balancing, we could try my IRD Mechanalysis (a notch filter with a strobe
setup that's generic, not specialized towards planes and propellers, but
will work fine) balancer. We'll be playing with an old saw mill (have a
poplar tree you need milled into a Piet kit?). Some machine tools, lathes,
mills, shaper. Plenty of woodworking machines. I've got a wing rib jig and
can mill up some materials if you want to play with that.
I do have a couple model a blocks laying around if someone wants to play
with one. We could strip the block, evaluate the cylinders, even bore and
hone... Could try setting up a line boring jig to machine out the
block/caps for inserts. I've got the tools, have never done it...
I'll have welders, we've tried gas welding aluminum with mixed results...
Hopefully I'll have the TIG welder fixed if you need some stuff welded
together, whatever. Lots of woodworking stuff, making and milling wood gear
struts is pretty easy.
The place is a mess, but there's a fair amount of room so you can just crash
where ever, how ever, the point is to keep it reasonably priced. No fees,
registrations, rsvp's or anything. If you NEED something done, might want
to discuss it a bit so materials are placed, if we need to find some outside
skill, we can try, etc.
I should have a career A&P IA available. He's got LOTS of experience
restoring planes, building motors, etc. Great resource. There's several
nice grass strips within a few miles (my runway is still soft from the
leveling work, so it's probably not usable) and we'll come get ya. Also
available is Lafayette GA less than 10 miles. Ramp space and avgas.
There are hotels near by, rides are easily available, whatever floats your
boat.
I'll probably definitely be doing some recover work on 2RN, all the damage
is repaired, just to fix the fabric now. I'll be stripping latex, using
Stewart glue to reattach, etc.
The location is just south of Chickamauga GA (south of Chatt TN). I'll post
gps coordinates later.
My hangar project is SLOW, but finally basically up and roofed...
[img]http://us-mg4.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=2_0_0_1_7556_AIV9w0MAAAvlUsTKXwAAAPhh4K8&pid=2&fid=Inbox&inline=1[/img]
So inclement weather shouldn't slow us down too badly. For northern folks,
this might be a decent break from the C O L D!! Some folks are coming from
NJ, IL, IN. There might be 10 folks, there might be a hundred (expect less
couch space in that case...). Outside of tools and machining, there'll be a
fair amount of eating (pass the hat, grill, get take out, whatever, not
getting very formal here) and drinking.
Cheers,
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416494#416494
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha |
I sure wish you were my next door Buddy! How about you moving to the warm, sunny
Sacramento Valley of California?
Guess I can't make it.
Ray Krause
Building SkyScout
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 3, 2014, at 7:55 AM, "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm hosting an event I've done in the past primarily oriented towards helping
folks with projects with tools and skills they may not normally have available.
>
> I've had folks bring broken machine parts, and we either fix them or fabricate
new. Lots of demonstrations on stuff, some applies to Piets, some won't, although
more of it applies that might be obvious. We'll possibly be pouring metal,
aluminum most likely. We could try making hinges... Dynamic balancing,
we could try my IRD Mechanalysis (a notch filter with a strobe setup that's generic,
not specialized towards planes and propellers, but will work fine) balancer.
We'll be playing with an old saw mill (have a poplar tree you need milled
into a Piet kit?). Some machine tools, lathes, mills, shaper. Plenty of woodworking
machines. I've got a wing rib jig and can mill up some materials if
you want to play with that.
>
> I do have a couple model a blocks laying around if someone wants to play with
one. We could strip the block, evaluate the cylinders, even bore and hone...
Could try setting up a line boring jig to machine out the block/caps for inserts.
I've got the tools, have never done it...
>
> I'll have welders, we've tried gas welding aluminum with mixed results... Hopefully
I'll have the TIG welder fixed if you need some stuff welded together,
whatever. Lots of woodworking stuff, making and milling wood gear struts is
pretty easy.
>
> The place is a mess, but there's a fair amount of room so you can just crash
where ever, how ever, the point is to keep it reasonably priced. No fees, registrations,
rsvp's or anything. If you NEED something done, might want to discuss
it a bit so materials are placed, if we need to find some outside skill,
we can try, etc.
>
> I should have a career A&P IA available. He's got LOTS of experience restoring
planes, building motors, etc. Great resource. There's several nice grass
strips within a few miles (my runway is still soft from the leveling work, so
it's probably not usable) and we'll come get ya. Also available is Lafayette
GA less than 10 miles. Ramp space and avgas.
>
> There are hotels near by, rides are easily available, whatever floats your boat.
>
> I'll probably definitely be doing some recover work on 2RN, all the damage is
repaired, just to fix the fabric now. I'll be stripping latex, using Stewart
glue to reattach, etc.
>
> The location is just south of Chickamauga GA (south of Chatt TN). I'll post
gps coordinates later.
>
> My hangar project is SLOW, but finally basically up and roofed...
>
> [img]http://us-mg4.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=2_0_0_1_7556_AIV9w0MAAAvlUsTKXwAAAPhh4K8&pid=2&fid=Inbox&inline=1[/img]
>
> So inclement weather shouldn't slow us down too badly. For northern folks, this
might be a decent break from the C O L D!! Some folks are coming from NJ,
IL, IN. There might be 10 folks, there might be a hundred (expect less couch
space in that case...). Outside of tools and machining, there'll be a fair amount
of eating (pass the hat, grill, get take out, whatever, not getting very
formal here) and drinking.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tools
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416494#416494
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons, up and down |
Thanks for the explanations. Makes sense now.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416497#416497
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| Subject: | Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha |
Very generous of you Tools! Hats off to ya.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416498#416498
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| Subject: | Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha |
I adopt you, you adopt me... it's all the same! Seems there would be little adult
supervision either way!
Where do you live? Might be able to arrange a ride. In the case of 73 young...
the couch and air mattress would be out, we'll find you a bed and room! We'll
call it the booby prize for avoiding growing up longer than anyone else there...
unless a octogenarian shows up... just sayin'.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416500#416500
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha |
Thanks. It's not ALL that expensive. People tend to really kick in and help.
We REALLY had fun at the first, the second was much smaller but still TONS of
fun. Seems the less "organized", the more productive and less stressful, meaning...
fun.
Otherwise, I didn't collect all this junk (most of it came off a scrap truck) for
no reason. No way I'm gonna wear it all out. The main concern is space.
In rural Georgia, it's reasonably priced.
That hangar, everything you see in the picture of it has set me back about two
grand. Trusses and tin donated from a guy taking down a chicken house. Poles
from the electric company for free, dimensional lumber from our sawmill and free
logs. About $500 in nails... and more nails... and a decent hammer for my
son... hehe. I'm just lucky enough to have a place to put it.
So, the philosopy is, if you were gonna pay someone a couple hundred to weld some
stuff together, buy gas and come here instead. Lodging is as free as I can
make it, food is no more than anywhere else... you'll make some new friends,
likely shoot some machine guns and see and play with some neat other equipment.
Also a great venue to get parts moved around. I'll be making a trip from WI down
to there before too long, more than willing to pick up Spruce in Madison and
get it to GA, come there and get it when you can. Plenty of space to store
it indoors. Buy an engine somewhere and need it moved? Position a Corvair engine
block for the college so you can fly there later? All sorts of possibilities.
Just would love to see some of the going ons associated with owwm.org happen here
as so much of it overlaps.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416501#416501
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| Subject: | Re: Jake's progress |
thanks Douwe..... This whole "building an airplane" thing is a lot of work, yet
it is very gratifying. I'm in the "five years done and a LONG way to go" phase.
Appreciate the thoughts and feedback for motivation......
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416510#416510
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha |
So Toolapalooza 2014 is set! [Laughing]
I will see if I can get up there as I have several things that I could get done.
I need the assistance as well as the equipment at the Danford Aeronautical Works
Inc. I guess that means that I do not have the "tools" to do the job!
I will give you a call.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416523#416523
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