Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:55 AM - Re: Fuel flow question (John Franklin)
2. 08:22 AM - Re: Fuel flow question (GNflyer)
3. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: Fuel flow question (Ken Bickers)
4. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Fuel flow question (Gary Boothe)
5. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: Fuel flow question (Hans van der Voort)
6. 10:55 AM - Re: Fuel flow question (taildrags)
7. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: Fuel flow question (Gary Boothe)
8. 12:46 PM - Re: Re: Fuel flow question (Hans van der Voort)
9. 02:41 PM - Re: Fuel flow question (taildrags)
10. 02:41 PM - Piet newsletter (Pietflyer1977)
11. 02:47 PM - Re: Fuel flow question (taildrags)
12. 03:02 PM - Re: Piet newsletter (John Hofmann)
13. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Fuel flow question (shad bell)
14. 03:18 PM - Re: Piet newsletter (shad bell)
15. 03:24 PM - Re: Piet newsletter (Pietflyer1977)
16. 04:46 PM - Re: Fuel flow question (AircamperN11MS)
17. 05:25 PM - Re: Piet newsletter (Chuck Campbell)
18. 05:29 PM - Re: Piet newsletter (Chuck Campbell)
19. 05:58 PM - center strut - rear attach brackets (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
20. 06:02 PM - Re: Re: Fuel flow question (Gary Boothe)
21. 06:20 PM - Re: center strut - rear attach brackets (Gary Boothe)
22. 06:54 PM - Re: Piet newsletter (Jack)
23. 07:22 PM - Re: Fuel flow question (taildrags)
24. 08:28 PM - Re: Re: Fuel flow question (Gary Boothe)
25. 08:32 PM - Re: Re: Fuel flow question (Gary Boothe)
26. 11:23 PM - Tig welder on Ebay. (tools)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
Scott,
I never dreamed a fuel system could be so complicated, I mean after all, it's basically
goes into the end of one tube and comes out the other, right? :-)
I appreciate you taking the time to comment. Regarding my Corvair, the original
fuel pump has been removed as William Wynne recommends. I really don't want
to put a header tank behind the engine because there are many electrical components
such as the battery, master solenoid, and the ignition coils and coil switch.
These components have to be right behind the firewall (except maybe the
battery), and any arcing of these components combined with a fuel leak in the
header tank would obviously be catastrophic.
It appears to me that my only options are to move the tank to the wing center section
(to answer another forum member, yes, mine is built, covered, and primed),
or install a fuel pump. I understand the drawbacks to having a fuel pump
but don't most low wing airplanes have to use them? Could you put in a second
pump for redundancy?
Regarding the Aircamper you test flew, the 10-gallon header tank must have been
mounted rather low for the engine to lose fuel pressure after only two gallons.
Also, was the electric fuel pump mounted close to the center section tank or
closer to the feeder tank?
Thanks again,
John F.
-----Original Message-----
>From: AircamperN11MS
>John,
>Since you have asked I will tell you a very true short story.
>Here I go. I was asked to do a first flight on a Pietenpol with a Corvair engine.
I agreed to do it. I arrived at the airport with the understanding that everything
I find during a complete inspection will be corrected before I fly it.please
keep in mind that I am an EAA Tech Counsoler for the past 18 years or
so. After six hours of work on the plane it was time to fly it. The plane was
built very well but just needed some fine tuning. It has a center section tank
and a nose tank. The intent of the owner is to use the center section tank as
the primary and the nose as reserve, about 10 gal in the nose. An electric fuel
pump is also on this plane without a bypass and Check valve. Yes electric aircraft
fuel pumps can flow fuel if not turned on. Get the proper one. But the
engine will also have a mechanical pump installed. Back to the flight. I elected
to fly the plane off the nose tank only for CG reasons. I am heavier than
the owner. We tied the plane down and did two or thre
!
> e full power runs for two minutes at a time with the fuel pump off. It all checked
good and this was at a climb angle. On the runway now, full throttle and
ready to rotate when the engine quit without warming. Now it won't run unless
the fuel pump is on. I decided to fly it with the pump on and all went well.
While at pattern alt. I shut the pump off to see if it would run. I quit again.
When the nose tank was full the engine would run without a pump. After only
two gallons were used there wasn't enough head pressure to push it through the
pump and it would quit. It does however run OK when burning from the center section
tank. The owners always fly it with the pump on. It is a big failure point
with no success of any restart attempt if you run a little low on fuel. I
would hate to run out of gas with 8 gallons on board. So.please put the tank in
the proper location so you don't need to rely on an electric fuel pump. I mean
this with all respect to you and want you to have
!
> a very safe and enjoyable airplane.
>Respectfully,
>
>--------
>Scott Liefeld
>Flying N11MS since March 1972
>Steel Tube
>C-85-12
>Wire Wheels
>Brodhead in 1996
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
You are right-many low wing types have fuel pumps- and we are building experimental
class and have the discretion to change and try designs- if you choose the
pump methods I know WW says to have nothing else on the circuit to cause a
problem with shorting it out. however I can see no reason there could not be two
fuel pumps parallel -they usualy have internal checks anyway on the electrics.
with an individual switch for each beside the ignition switch so if you wanted
to change either ignition sides if you have dual coils like mine you could
also switch pumps in case of failure. as long as all are clearly marked. just
my worthless opinion. Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417681#417681
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
John, another alternative you might throw into the mix is moving your
electrical components to the forward side of the firewall. That would free
the space aft of the firewall for a header tank, without raising the
concern about arcing. If you are worrying about excessive heat on
electrical components when located near the motor, it is straightforward to
direct some cooling air onto them. Cheers, Ken
On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 8:54 AM, John Franklin <jbfjr@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> Scott,
>
> I never dreamed a fuel system could be so complicated, I mean after all,
> it's basically goes into the end of one tube and comes out the other,
> right? :-)
>
> I appreciate you taking the time to comment. Regarding my Corvair, the
> original fuel pump has been removed as William Wynne recommends. I really
> don't want to put a header tank behind the engine because there are many
> electrical components such as the battery, master solenoid, and the
> ignition coils and coil switch. These components have to be right behind
> the firewall (except maybe the battery), and any arcing of these components
> combined with a fuel leak in the header tank would obviously be
> catastrophic.
>
> It appears to me that my only options are to move the tank to the wing
> center section (to answer another forum member, yes, mine is built,
> covered, and primed), or install a fuel pump. I understand the drawbacks
> to having a fuel pump but don't most low wing airplanes have to use them?
> Could you put in a second pump for redundancy?
>
> Regarding the Aircamper you test flew, the 10-gallon header tank must have
> been mounted rather low for the engine to lose fuel pressure after only two
> gallons. Also, was the electric fuel pump mounted close to the center
> section tank or closer to the feeder tank?
>
> Thanks again,
> John F.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: AircamperN11MS
>
> >John,
> >Since you have asked I will tell you a very true short story.
> >Here I go. I was asked to do a first flight on a Pietenpol with a Corvair
> engine. I agreed to do it. I arrived at the airport with the understanding
> that everything I find during a complete inspection will be corrected
> before I fly it.please keep in mind that I am an EAA Tech Counsoler for the
> past 18 years or so. After six hours of work on the plane it was time to
> fly it. The plane was built very well but just needed some fine tuning. It
> has a center section tank and a nose tank. The intent of the owner is to
> use the center section tank as the primary and the nose as reserve, about
> 10 gal in the nose. An electric fuel pump is also on this plane without a
> bypass and Check valve. Yes electric aircraft fuel pumps can flow fuel if
> not turned on. Get the proper one. But the engine will also have a
> mechanical pump installed. Back to the flight. I elected to fly the plane
> off the nose tank only for CG reasons. I am heavier than the owner. We tied
> the plane down and did two or thre
> !
> > e full power runs for two minutes at a time with the fuel pump off. It
> all checked good and this was at a climb angle. On the runway now, full
> throttle and ready to rotate when the engine quit without warming. Now it
> won't run unless the fuel pump is on. I decided to fly it with the pump on
> and all went well. While at pattern alt. I shut the pump off to see if it
> would run. I quit again. When the nose tank was full the engine would run
> without a pump. After only two gallons were used there wasn't enough head
> pressure to push it through the pump and it would quit. It does however run
> OK when burning from the center section tank. The owners always fly it with
> the pump on. It is a big failure point with no success of any restart
> attempt if you run a little low on fuel. I would hate to run out of gas
> with 8 gallons on board. So.please put the tank in the proper location so
> you don't need to rely on an electric fuel pump. I mean this with all
> respect to you and want you to have
> !
> > a very safe and enjoyable airplane.
> >Respectfully,
> >
> >--------
> >Scott Liefeld
> >Flying N11MS since March 1972
> >Steel Tube
> >C-85-12
> >Wire Wheels
> >Brodhead in 1996
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
John,
Fuel pumps are attached directly to the tank they are drawing from.
For reasons of simplicity, I too vote for the wing tank, if you can't do
a nose tank. It is understandable that you may be intimidated by
building your own tank, but it really isn=99t very hard...just a
bit messy, if you go the Pro-seal method. Now's the time, before you do
finish paint. Just cut the fabric leaving enough to fold and fasten into
the opening...maybe install some reinforcing tapes at the edges; design
and build your tank; cut the holes in the floor of the center section
for the fuel lines...and drop her in! Working part time on it, you
should be done in less than a week.
There are many builders on this list who made their own tanks, so you
should be able to gather all the help and support you want...including
from me.
Then you have all that front area for camping equipment!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Franklin
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 7:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel flow question
Scott,
I never dreamed a fuel system could be so complicated, I mean after all,
it's basically goes into the end of one tube and comes out the other,
right? :-)
I appreciate you taking the time to comment. Regarding my Corvair, the
original fuel pump has been removed as William Wynne recommends. I
really don't want to put a header tank behind the engine because there
are many electrical components such as the battery, master solenoid, and
the ignition coils and coil switch. These components have to be right
behind the firewall (except maybe the battery), and any arcing of these
components combined with a fuel leak in the header tank would obviously
be catastrophic.
It appears to me that my only options are to move the tank to the wing
center section (to answer another forum member, yes, mine is built,
covered, and primed), or install a fuel pump. I understand the
drawbacks to having a fuel pump but don't most low wing airplanes have
to use them? Could you put in a second pump for redundancy?
Regarding the Aircamper you test flew, the 10-gallon header tank must
have been mounted rather low for the engine to lose fuel pressure after
only two gallons. Also, was the electric fuel pump mounted close to the
center section tank or closer to the feeder tank?
Thanks again,
John F.
-----Original Message-----
>From: AircamperN11MS
>John,
>Since you have asked I will tell you a very true short story.
>Here I go. I was asked to do a first flight on a Pietenpol with a
>Corvair engine. I agreed to do it. I arrived at the airport with the
>understanding that everything I find during a complete inspection will
>be corrected before I fly it.please keep in mind that I am an EAA Tech
>Counsoler for the past 18 years or so. After six hours of work on the
>plane it was time to fly it. The plane was built very well but just
>needed some fine tuning. It has a center section tank and a nose tank.
>The intent of the owner is to use the center section tank as the
>primary and the nose as reserve, about 10 gal in the nose. An electric
>fuel pump is also on this plane without a bypass and Check valve. Yes
>electric aircraft fuel pumps can flow fuel if not turned on. Get the
>proper one. But the engine will also have a mechanical pump installed.
>Back to the flight. I elected to fly the plane off the nose tank only
>for CG reasons. I am heavier than the owner. We tied the plane down and
>did two or thre
!
> e full power runs for two minutes at a time with the fuel pump off. It
> all checked good and this was at a climb angle. On the runway now,
> full throttle and ready to rotate when the engine quit without
> warming. Now it won't run unless the fuel pump is on. I decided to fly
> it with the pump on and all went well. While at pattern alt. I shut
> the pump off to see if it would run. I quit again. When the nose tank
> was full the engine would run without a pump. After only two gallons
> were used there wasn't enough head pressure to push it through the
> pump and it would quit. It does however run OK when burning from the
> center section tank. The owners always fly it with the pump on. It is
> a big failure point with no success of any restart attempt if you run
> a little low on fuel. I would hate to run out of gas with 8 gallons on
> board. So.please put the tank in the proper location so you don't need
> to rely on an electric fuel pump. I mean this with all respect to you
> and want you to have
!
> a very safe and enjoyable airplane.
>Respectfully,
>
>--------
>Scott Liefeld
>Flying N11MS since March 1972
>Steel Tube
>C-85-12
>Wire Wheels
>Brodhead in 1996
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
John,=0A=0AIf you can raise it easily 3", I would try that first.=0A=0AThe
Fuel pump is good alternative and you most likely only need it during take
off.=0AAnd mild aerobatics (Stalls)=0A=0AHans.=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, Januar
y 26, 2014 10:20 PM, AircamperN11MS <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote:=0A
city.org>=0A=0AJohn,=0ASince you have asked I will tell you a very true sho
rt story.=0AHere I go. I was asked to do a first flight on a Pietenpol with
a Corvair engine. I agreed to do it. I arrived at the airport with the und
erstanding that everything I find during a complete inspection will be corr
ected before I fly it.please keep in mind that I am an EAA Tech Counsoler f
or the past 18 years or so. After six hours of work on the plane it was tim
e to fly it. The plane was built very well but just needed some fine tuning
. It has a center section tank and a nose tank. The intent of the owner is
to use the center section tank as the primary and the nose as reserve, abou
t 10 gal in the nose. An electric fuel pump is also on this plane without a
bypass and Check valve. Yes electric aircraft fuel pumps can flow fuel if
not turned on. Get the proper one. But the engine will also have a mechanic
al pump installed. Back to the flight. I elected to fly the plane off the n
ose tank only for CG reasons. I am heavier than the owner. We tied the plan
e
down and did two or thre!=0Ae full power runs for two minutes at a time wi
th the fuel pump off. It all checked good and this was at a climb angle. On
the runway now, full throttle and ready to rotate when the engine quit wit
hout warming. Now it won't run unless the fuel pump is on. I decided to fly
it with the pump on and all went well. While at pattern alt. I shut the pu
mp off to see if it would run. I quit again. When the nose tank was full th
e engine would run without a pump. After only two gallons were used there w
asn't enough head pressure to push it through the pump and it would quit. I
t does however run OK when burning from the center section tank. The owners
always fly it with the pump on. It is a big failure point with no success
of any restart attempt if you run a little low on fuel. I would hate to run
out of gas with 8 gallons on board. So.please put the tank in the proper l
ocation so you don't need to rely on an electric fuel pump. I mean this wit
h all respect to you
and want you to have !=0Aa very safe and enjoyable airplane.=0ARespectfull
y,=0A=0A--------=0AScott Liefeld=0AFlying N11MS since March 1972=0ASteel Tu
be=0AC-85-12=0AWire Wheels=0ABrodhead in 1996=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic
online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417657#417
=
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
Gary: that's a nice fuel tank, and sturdy looking. How much fuel does it hold?
The riveted flange construction looks to be about as easy as it can be. We
won't deduct points for the one or two rivets that are a teeny bit off the straight
lines ;o)
Also, back to Scott's comment about having a mechanical fuel pump on the Corvair
(and John's reply), the reason why William advises against the use of the Corvair
mechanical fuel pump is that it is a diaphragm pumper type of operation
and the diaphragm can rupture. When it does, fuel then has a straight shot right
down into the guts of the engine, and the engine will probably not run very
long before the oil is diluted and metal starts meeting metal in a catastrophic
way.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417690#417690
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
Thanks, Oscar...I think...
You have a keen eye. You will also note that, where those rivets are
off-set, they occur at a dimple or crimp. I had to off-set them so that they
grabbed the flange where the crimp ended. This tank holds 16 gallons.
Smartest thing I did was incorporate the access panels on the top. They can
be easily removed and reinstalled with new sealer.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 10:55 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel flow question
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Gary: that's a nice fuel tank, and sturdy looking. How much fuel does it
hold? The riveted flange construction looks to be about as easy as it can
be. We won't deduct points for the one or two rivets that are a teeny bit
off the straight lines ;o)
Also, back to Scott's comment about having a mechanical fuel pump on the
Corvair (and John's reply), the reason why William advises against the use
of the Corvair mechanical fuel pump is that it is a diaphragm pumper type of
operation and the diaphragm can rupture. When it does, fuel then has a
straight shot right down into the guts of the engine, and the engine will
probably not run very long before the oil is diluted and metal starts
meeting metal in a catastrophic way.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417690#417690
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
The orginal Corvair Fuel pump was not a great pump to begin with, it was fo
r a short while certified on Franklin engines. Until a fatal failure:=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0ANTSB Identification: FTW00FA046. =0AThe docket is stored in the
=0ADocket Management System (DMS). Please contact Records Management Divis
ion =0AAccident occurred Saturday, December 18, 1999 in EDGEWOOD, =0ATX=0AP
robable Cause Approval Date: 07/02/2001=0AAircraft: Globe GC-1B, =0Aregistr
ation: N80951=0AInjuries: 1 Fatal.=0A=0ANTSB investigators either traveled
in support of this investigation or =0Aconducted a significant amount of in
vestigative work without any travel, and =0Aused data obtained from various
sources to prepare this aircraft accident =0Areport.=0A=0AThe pilot made a
radio call indicating that he had an engine problem or =0Afailure and was
going down. Witnesses observed the airplane maneuvering at a low =0Aaltitud
e with the propeller not turning. As the airplane made a turn, its nose =0A
dropped, and the airplane descended and impacted the ground. Examination of
the =0Aaccident site revealed that the airplane impacted the ground in a n
ose down =0Aattitude. An examination of the WSK 'PZL-Rzeszow' (PZL) Frankli
n 6A-350-C1R =0Aengine revealed that the engine driven fuel pump had failed
. It was determined =0Athat the inlet and outlet valve stems fractured due
to fatigue. According to a =0APZL representative, PZL did not know who manu
factured the pump and did 'not know =0Acharacteristics' of the pump. Resear
ch revealed that this fuel pump was designed =0Afor use in the Chevrolet Co
rvair automobile. According to the pump manufacturer, =0Athe pump was inten
ded strictly for automotive applications, and not intended for =0Aaviation
use. The pump was designed to operate at 5.4 pounds per square inch =0Amini
mum and 6.9 pounds per square inch maximum static pressure at the pump =0Ao
utlet when the pump is operated at 1,800 revolutions per minute. According
to =0Athe PZL representative, the operating limits for fuel pressure in mod
el =0A6A-350-C1R engines are 0.5 pounds per square inch minimum to 8.5 poun
ds per =0Asquare inch maximum. The FAA issued 'Type Certification Data Shee
t No. E9EA' for =0Athe PZL Franklin 6A-350-C1R engine on December 8, 1994.
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Monday, January 27, 2014 1:21 PM, Gary Boothe <gboo
Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>=0A=0AThanks, Oscar...I think...=0A=0AYou ha
ve a keen eye. You will also note that, where those rivets are=0Aoff-set, t
hey occur at a dimple or crimp. I had to off-set them so that they=0Agrabbe
d the flange where the crimp ended. This tank holds 16 gallons.=0ASmartest
thing I did was incorporate the access panels on the top. They can=0Abe eas
ily removed and reinstalled with new sealer.=0A=0AGary Boothe=0ANX308MB=0A
=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matron
ics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of t
aildrags=0ASent: Monday, January 27, 2014 10:55 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@mat
ronics.com=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel flow question=0A=0A--> Piete
npol-List message posted by: "taildrags" =0A--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>=0A
=0AGary: that's a nice fuel tank, and sturdy looking.- How much fuel does
it=0Ahold?- The riveted flange construction looks to be about as easy as
it can=0Abe.- We won't deduct points for the one or two rivets that are
a teeny bit=0Aoff the straight lines ;o)=0A=0AAlso, back to Scott's comment
about having a mechanical fuel pump on the=0ACorvair (and John's reply), t
he reason why William advises against the use=0Aof the Corvair mechanical f
uel pump is that it is a diaphragm pumper type of=0Aoperation and the diaph
ragm can rupture.- When it does, fuel then has a=0Astraight shot right do
wn into the guts of the engine, and the engine will=0Aprobably not run very
long before the oil is diluted and metal starts=0Ameeting metal in a catas
trophic way.=0A=0A--------=0AOscar Zuniga=0AMedford, OR=0AAir Camper NX41CC
"Scout"=0AA75 power=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:
=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417690#417690=0A=0A=0A
=
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
Gary; the fuel tank really is a nice piece of work. I was just funnin' ya about
the rivets, but now't you mention it, I see the dimples and why you had to offset
the rivets in those spots.
By any chance are you using a Larry Williams-style fuel sight gauge on the bottom
of the tank, or a dial-type, or electric capacitance, or -? I think I've also
seen someone's centersection tank that used one of the old outboard motor
fuel tank gauges that feature a cork float that turns a flat helical piece of
metal as the float rises or falls. The twisting of the flat rod turns the fuel
indicator needle.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417708#417708
Message 10
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Was just wondering if anyone has got there Piet club newsletter? Have been looking
for it everyday for a month. Don't we usually get them the end of December
/ first of January? Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417709#417709
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
A picture of the typical float-type indicator is attached. However, I think these
are mostly made for viewing from above, which means that they would read exactly
the opposite if installed in the bottom of a fuel tank for viewing from
below.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417710#417710
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_level_137.jpg
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Piet newsletter |
Newsletter is to the printers. I had an an article from Dom Emch on ski flying
I needed to get in. Patience is asked for while I learn this system.
Best,
-john-
John Hofmann
Vice-President, IT and Production
The Rees Group, Inc.
2424 American Lane
Madison, WI 53704
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Jan 27, 2014, at 4:41 PM, Pietflyer1977 <rob@stoinoff.com> wrote:
>
> Was just wondering if anyone has got there Piet club newsletter? Have been looking
for it everyday for a month. Don't we usually get them the end of December
/ first of January? Thanks
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417709#417709
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
John, No Disrespect, But I would definitely recommend keeping the fuel syst
em as simple as possible.- It will be extra work to build a new tank-be
it-a center section tank or a fuselage tank right behind the firewall.
- I have been where you are, almost ready to fly and something does not w
ork out like you planned. I just found out a couple weeks ago that I need t
o build a new landing gear for the airplane I am building (too short, airpl
ane is ready for final assembly and rigging).- I had the brake lines inst
alled and bleed, and thought I was ready to go.- I have found out on seve
ral occasions the right answer is usually the one you don't want to hear in
these situations, usually because it is more work, or more money, or both.
- I think a little more work now will save you a lot of heartache later.
- I am not saying that an electric-fuel pump won't work, but-all low
wing pipers I have flown have an electric boost pump that is only on for ta
ke-off
and landing, the rest of the time the engine fuel pump is pumping the fuel
.- Gravity on the other hand always works.- Keep us up to date on your
progress, and if you need any info on the center section tank let me know,
I am glad to help if I can.=0A=0AShad=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Monday, January 27, 201
4 5:53 PM, taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:=0A =0A--> Pietenpol-Li
st message posted by: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>=0A=0AA picture of
the typical float-type indicator is attached.- However, I think these ar
e mostly made for viewing from above, which means that they would read exac
tly the opposite if installed in the bottom of a fuel tank for viewing from
below.=0A=0A--------=0AOscar Zuniga=0AMedford, OR=0AAir Camper NX41CC &quo
t;Scout"=0AA75 power=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ah
ttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417710#417710=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAt
tachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_level_137.jpg=0A
=========================0A
===================
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Piet newsletter |
I am glad I am not the only one, I was wondering if they forgot to-renew
my subscription.=0A=0AShad=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Monday, January 27, 2014 5:48 PM,
Pietflyer1977 <rob@stoinoff.com> wrote:=0A =0A--> Pietenpol-List message p
osted by: "Pietflyer1977" <rob@stoinoff.com>=0A=0AWas just wondering if any
one has got there Piet club newsletter?- Have been looking for it everyda
y for a month. Don't we usually get them the end of December / first of Jan
uary? Thanks=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.
==============
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Piet newsletter |
Ok thanks for the update. I take it that you are the one in charge of the newsletter
now. Actually slipped my mind that it has changed hands. Understand getting
things figured out at first, no problem, I was just curious. Looking forward
to getting it! Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417715#417715
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
Hi john,
I think your questions have been answered in some form here. I am a guy who likes
magnetos and steam gauges. Electrical powered stuff has its place and it
is a lot more reliable than in the past. Lets look at one of the suggestions.
Keep in mind they are all good ones. you just need to figure out what you want.
One of the ideas was to install a second fuel pump. It is a great idea for
redundancy but if your battery is dead, you have no fuel. My personal choice
is still gravity fed system. This is why. We know that you need 12 volts
for your engine to run. It is a distributor and coil arrangement. Lets say that
your alternator quits in flight. You have a fuel pump and distributor that
need power to make you engine run. This is where it gets tricky. How many
amps is required and how many amper hours is your battery? You'll need to do the
math here to see how long it is going to run. If you only needed to run the
ignition system you will have a lot more time to find a place to land. I know
we can play the would if game all day here but the point here is to think carefully
about what you want. and build it that way. Taking your plane to the
Corvair collage is an excellent idea. There will plenty of folks there with a
whole bunch more Corvair knowledge than I have.
You are absolutely on the right websites and asking all the right people the right
questions. Please do not get discouraged. We have all been down this road
and will offer the best advice we have.
Oh, one more thing that hasn't been mentioned. You will need to be able to shut
the fuel off from the pilots seat. It is the best way to stop an inflight fire.
Safety first.
Respectfully to all reading this,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417721#417721
Message 17
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John=2C I don't remember whether I had given my new address before. It is:
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet newsletter
> From: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
> Date: Mon=2C 27 Jan 2014 17:01:51 -0600
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
.com>
>
> Newsletter is to the printers. I had an an article from Dom Emch on ski f
lying I needed to get in. Patience is asked for while I learn this system.
>
> Best=2C
> -john-
>
> John Hofmann
> Vice-President=2C IT and Production
> The Rees Group=2C Inc.
> 2424 American Lane
> Madison=2C WI 53704
> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
> Fax: 608.443.2474
> Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>
> On Jan 27=2C 2014=2C at 4:41 PM=2C Pietflyer1977 <rob@stoinoff.com> wrote
:
>
>
> >
> > Was just wondering if anyone has got there Piet club newsletter? Have
been looking for it everyday for a month. Don't we usually get them the end
of December / first of January? Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417709#417709
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 18
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John=2C I don't remember whether I gave you my new mailing address. Here i
t is:
Chuck Campbell
604 Cordova Court
Salisbury=2C NC 28146
I=2C too=2C was wondering if I had gotten lost in the shuffle. I know that
whenever it shows up it will be worth the wait. Thank you for taking over
. Chuck
Do not archive
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet newsletter
> From: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
> Date: Mon=2C 27 Jan 2014 17:01:51 -0600
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
.com>
>
> Newsletter is to the printers. I had an an article from Dom Emch on ski f
lying I needed to get in. Patience is asked for while I learn this system.
>
> Best=2C
> -john-
>
> John Hofmann
> Vice-President=2C IT and Production
> The Rees Group=2C Inc.
> 2424 American Lane
> Madison=2C WI 53704
> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
> Fax: 608.443.2474
> Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>
> On Jan 27=2C 2014=2C at 4:41 PM=2C Pietflyer1977 <rob@stoinoff.com> wrote
:
>
>
> >
> > Was just wondering if anyone has got there Piet club newsletter? Have
been looking for it everyday for a month. Don't we usually get them the end
of December / first of January? Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417709#417709
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | center strut - rear attach brackets |
i'm confused with the connection between the rear center struct brackets an
d the fuselage. Theres a 3/4 x 1/2 member that goes between the two fusela
ge sides and is then covered with plywood for the instrument panel. The CC
brackets appear to sever this member pretty much completely. Is this righ
t?
not that I think that that little member transfers a ton of energy but it s
eems strange that it would be cut off at the ends to make room for the brac
kets to slide through. this is where the front seat back is attached to as
well.
Any insights?
Tom Brant
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
Larry Williams?! Pshaw! I have the Steve Eldridge fuel gauge!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 2:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel flow question
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Gary; the fuel tank really is a nice piece of work. I was just funnin' ya
about the rivets, but now't you mention it, I see the dimples and why you
had to offset the rivets in those spots.
By any chance are you using a Larry Williams-style fuel sight gauge on the
bottom of the tank, or a dial-type, or electric capacitance, or -? I think
I've also seen someone's centersection tank that used one of the old
outboard motor fuel tank gauges that feature a cork float that turns a flat
helical piece of metal as the float rises or falls. The twisting of the
flat rod turns the fuel indicator needle.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417708#417708
Message 21
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| Subject: | center strut - rear attach brackets |
Tom,
Out of hundreds of pictures, I thought I had things pretty well
covered=85until I go to look for something like that!
I did find a picture that seemed to confirm what you describe. The seat
back
for the front cockpit supports that member, and eventually all are tied
in
again with the hoop for the turtle deck. I suggest cutting the plywood
bottom for the instrument panel, notched for the fittings, then add the
=BD=94
member.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM
MICHELLE
BRANT
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: center strut - rear attach brackets
i'm confused with the connection between the rear center struct brackets
and
the fuselage. Theres a 3/4 x 1/2 member that goes between the two
fuselage
sides and is then covered with plywood for the instrument panel. The CC
brackets appear to sever this member pretty much completely. Is this
right?
not that I think that that little member transfers a ton of energy but
it
seems strange that it would be cut off at the ends to make room for the
brackets to slide through. this is where the front seat back is
attached to
as well.
Any insights?
Tom Brant
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Piet newsletter |
Me too John
2400 South 14th St
West Des Moines, IA 50265
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
On Jan 27, 2014, at 7:25 PM, Chuck Campbell <cncampbell@outlook.com> wrote:
> John, I don't remember whether I had given my new address before. It is:
>
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet newsletter
> > From: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
> > Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 17:01:51 -0600
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >
c.com>
> >
> > Newsletter is to the printers. I had an an article from Dom Emch on ski f
lying I needed to get in. Patience is asked for while I learn this system.
> >
> > Best,
> > -john-
> >
> > John Hofmann
> > Vice-President, IT and Production
> > The Rees Group, Inc.
> > 2424 American Lane
> > Madison, WI 53704
> > Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
> > Fax: 608.443.2474
> > Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
> >
> > On Jan 27, 2014, at 4:41 PM, Pietflyer1977 <rob@stoinoff.com> wrote:
> >
m>
> > >
> > > Was just wondering if anyone has got there Piet club newsletter? Have b
een looking for it everyday for a month. Don't we usually get them the end o
f December / first of January? Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417709#417709
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> &g================
> >
> >
> >
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
Gary; that's a beautiful rendition of the Steve Eldredge sight gauge! I never
thought of leaving the copper tube in its natural state or highlighting it, but
on your vintage-style airplane, polished metal goes very well. Do you have
a quick-drain fitting in the bottom of the tube there?
I created those drawings from hand sketches that Steve sent me, plus his narrative
description, but when I scanned them a little of the text was cut off and
I tried to fix it with MS Paint. Crude, but it gets the point across. I also
got similar sketches from the Top Curmudgeon (Larry) for his float-type indicator,
which is also quite simple and elegant.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417732#417732
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
As with many things on my plane, the site gauge too has been modified from
that picture. Yes, it has always had a quick-drain, but I have also taken
off some of the tubing on the other side to give it a see-thru, more visible
'glass'. I had no idea that the drawings were yours! They must be good,
because even I could follow them!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 7:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel flow question
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Gary; that's a beautiful rendition of the Steve Eldredge sight gauge! I
never thought of leaving the copper tube in its natural state or
highlighting it, but on your vintage-style airplane, polished metal goes
very well. Do you have a quick-drain fitting in the bottom of the tube
there?
I created those drawings from hand sketches that Steve sent me, plus his
narrative description, but when I scanned them a little of the text was cut
off and I tried to fix it with MS Paint. Crude, but it gets the point
across. I also got similar sketches from the Top Curmudgeon (Larry) for his
float-type indicator, which is also quite simple and elegant.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417732#417732
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow question |
...and now that I look back on that article...Sure enough! There's your
name!!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 7:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel flow question
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Gary; that's a beautiful rendition of the Steve Eldredge sight gauge! I
never thought of leaving the copper tube in its natural state or
highlighting it, but on your vintage-style airplane, polished metal goes
very well. Do you have a quick-drain fitting in the bottom of the tube
there?
I created those drawings from hand sketches that Steve sent me, plus his
narrative description, but when I scanned them a little of the text was cut
off and I tried to fix it with MS Paint. Crude, but it gets the point
across. I also got similar sketches from the Top Curmudgeon (Larry) for his
float-type indicator, which is also quite simple and elegant.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417732#417732
Message 26
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| Subject: | Tig welder on Ebay. |
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291063457658?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Item number 291063457658 if the link doesn't work.
I just bought one of these, also on Ebay, and it's a REALLY nice welder. At $250
(mine was $350, was the only one to bid... everything but a argon tank - sixty
bucks on craigslist - and regulator - forty five from local welding shop),
after you build your airplane, copper will probably be high enough to scrap it
and come out even.
It's older technology, which is a bonus as there's no circuit boards in there.
I imagine the "mid range problems" noted are with the rheostat. Either dirty,
or worn, simply cannot be a big deal to fix if you even need to. There's an
oil filled capacitor in there that's given a few folks problems in the past,
a nine dollar fix...
For a transformer based machine, it's considered quite efficient. I'm running
my syncrowave and one of these on a 40amp breaker with no ill effects. Can't
wind up the wick and do 1/2" in one pass...
It's big. Really big. And heavy. There's always a catch and that's it with this
machine. Still if you're in the market for a welder, this is seriously worth
considering. There's also an Airco branded one of these out there, the same
machine part for part. If you look at others of these, I would say that quite
a bit of my research on these seemed to reveal that the pedal is difficult
to find, and the plug is obsolete. I really don't think it would be much to
overcome, especially if you're tenacious enough to build an AIRPLANE! To be safe,
just make sure one you're looking at has that and it's clearly not an issue.
I've seen quite a few less than $500.
Cheers
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417746#417746
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