---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/06/14: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:16 AM - Re: Re: Cutting 4130 (glenschweizer@yahoo.com) 2. 03:47 AM - Re: Cutting 4130 (Don Emch) 3. 03:49 AM - Re: Gardiner's C-85 (Don Emch) 4. 04:21 AM - Re: Re: Cutting 4130 (Jack Phillips) 5. 04:59 AM - Re: Cutting 4130 (Jerry Grogan) 6. 05:18 AM - Re: Cutting 4130 (Steven Dortch) 7. 05:19 AM - Re: Cutting 4130 (Don Emch) 8. 06:39 AM - Re: nx727cr build update (AircamperN11MS) 9. 06:42 AM - Re: Off subject-- link to some great WWI era aeroplanes in NZ (AircamperN11MS) 10. 07:10 AM - Re: Re: Off subject-- link to some great WWI era aeroplanes in NZ (Michael Perez) 11. 09:27 AM - Re: nx727cr build update (nightmare) 12. 09:32 AM - Re: nx727cr build update (AircamperN11MS) 13. 09:56 AM - Re: Re: nx727cr build update (Michael Perez) 14. 10:16 AM - Cobra Torches... (Ray Krause) 15. 10:38 AM - Re: nx727cr build update (aerocarjake) 16. 10:52 AM - Re: nx727cr build update (John Francis) 17. 11:37 AM - Re: Cutting 4130 (womenfly2) 18. 11:55 AM - Re: Re: nx727cr build update (Ken Bickers) 19. 12:33 PM - Re: texas piet. flyin (curtdm(at)gmail.com) 20. 01:56 PM - Re: Cutting 4130 (Dennis Engelkenjohn) 21. 02:13 PM - Re: nx727cr build update (nightmare) 22. 02:34 PM - Re: Cutting 4130 (jarheadpilot82) 23. 02:49 PM - Re: Cobra Torches... (shad bell) 24. 03:02 PM - How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank (jarheadpilot82) 25. 03:37 PM - Re: Cobra Torches... (Pietflyer1977) 26. 04:47 PM - Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank (Lion Mason) 27. 04:59 PM - Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank (jarheadpilot82) 28. 06:43 PM - Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank (glenschweizer@yahoo.com) 29. 06:59 PM - Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank (jarheadpilot82) 30. 07:38 PM - Re: Re: Cobra Torches... (Ray Krause) 31. 08:18 PM - Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank (Braniff1966) 32. 08:21 PM - Re: texas piet. flyin (Braniff1966) 33. 09:10 PM - Re: Cobra Torches... (Joemotis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:48 AM PST US From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130 I've used ,from harbor freight aerospace tools, a cheap assed metal cutting bandsaw. When you lift the blade sassy to the vertical position, you will see the adjustable guide rollers that support the blade.fabricate a small table to attach to that Assy. Now you have something resembling a larger table saw with the additional and intended use as a metal cutting bandsaw Mine is made for cutting up to a 4 " diameter pipe or whatever quite the work horse for a hundred bucks. Keep the blade speed down to keep it cool use no oil cause it clogs the blade. Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:12 PM, "Clif Dawson" wrote: > > Make a table for better control. > This one, along with a 5" vise, is mounted atop a > restaurant table base. It can be rolled around the > same as a55 gal drumor barrel. With one foot on > it it's solid. Make the table hieght the same as the > top of the vise jaws. > Although these pics aren't great I'm sure guys- > who-build-Piets can figure it out. :-) > > Clif > It matters not what things have been. > It only matters what they become. > > >> >> I find my 4 1/2 angle grider with cutoff disc works great. I have a second grinder with a sanding disc to clean up edges. Many fittings can be made by first buying strip steel of correct width to reduce cuts needed. >> Paul Donahue > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:47:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130 From: "Don Emch" It's all about your cutting speed, which is referred to in surface feet per minute. Wood band saws are usually way up there around 1500-2500 SFPM. That will smoke a blade immediately as soon as you touch steel. In order to cut 4130 you really need to be in the 80-120 SFPM range. Many folks do this by mounting a jack shaft but it's probably going to surprise you just how big of a pulley is going to be needed to slow it down. You'll need to do some math and figure your circumferences on your pulleys. If you want, you can give me your current RPM and your pulley diameters and I can figure out for you what your SFPM is. I could then tell you what you would need for a pulley. As far as teeth per inch (TPI) goes, you always want to engage at least 2 teeth in your material. Otherwise you can chip a tooth off. Once you do this the next tooth easily chips off, then the next, the next, and soon you have a whole strip of teeth missing. Just speakin' from frustrated experience... Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418171#418171 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:18 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Gardiner's C-85 From: "Don Emch" Fred, Great to hear on some progress. Everyone that has ever built one of these has had more important family and life obligations get in the way! Looking forward to some pictures... Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418172#418172 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:42 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130 Don is absolutely right about this. The blade speed needs to be about 80 feet per minute (RPM of the pulleys is irrelevant - all the blade knows is how fast it is going realtive to the work piece you are trying to cut). Don is also right about the number of teeth . For the thin stuff we cut I prefer to get 32 teeth per inch blades, and even then cutting .032" 4130 sheet like you use for the control horns you will chip a few teeth off. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:47 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130 It's all about your cutting speed, which is referred to in surface feet per minute. Wood band saws are usually way up there around 1500-2500 SFPM. That will smoke a blade immediately as soon as you touch steel. In order to cut 4130 you really need to be in the 80-120 SFPM range. Many folks do this by mounting a jack shaft but it's probably going to surprise you just how big of a pulley is going to be needed to slow it down. You'll need to do some math and figure your circumferences on your pulleys. If you want, you can give me your current RPM and your pulley diameters and I can figure out for you what your SFPM is. I could then tell you what you would need for a pulley. As far as teeth per inch (TPI) goes, you always want to engage at least 2 teeth in your material. Otherwise you can chip a tooth off. Once you do this the next tooth easily chips off, then the next, the next, and soon you have a whole strip of teeth missing. Just speakin' from frustrated experience... Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418171#418171 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:30 AM PST US From: "Jerry Grogan" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130 Also besides all the other good advice. What is happening is when you cut 4130 you have to keep cutting. Don't stop or the metal will get hot and CASE HARDEN. When it case hardens it will take all the teeth off the blade. So slower is good but the main thing is keep cutting and don't pause. That's why we water jet cut. We have lost many blades but it can be done and we still do it sometimes. Jerry Sky Classic Aircraft -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of aviken Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 10:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130 Hi Guys. I need some advice. I have a commercial type band saw that uses a 93 inch blade. It is really for wood, but I have slowed it down with a jack shaft I made, and it is slow enough now. I tried to rip some .100 4130 and it quickly ruined my blade. Is this not going to work. I need to come up with some way to make this thing work. I've been making some progress on my fuselage and hopeing to finish it by spring then move on to the wing when time allows Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418163#418163 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/jeep_motor_1_118.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_2_491.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_1_908.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130 From: Steven Dortch I love the Jeep motor! Are you going to mount it high and sticking up or somewhat lower with the prop at a lower position? It could look very OX5ish. A buddy has an Overland Whippet he is restoring from ground up. It is the father of the Jeep. The motor is only about 25 HP but it looks just like your engine, which looks just like my old 1948 Jeep Pickup's engine. both were related tothe WW II jeep engine. Not a lot of HP but a hell of a lot of tourqe on that old Pickup. Willys-Overland Pickup top speed was 39 MPH. Low transfer and 1st gear top speed was under 1 MPH. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:03 PM, aviken wrote: > > Hi Guys. I need some advice. I have a commercial type band saw that > uses a 93 inch blade. It is really for wood, but I have slowed it down with > a jack shaft I made, and it is slow enough now. I tried to rip some .100 > 4130 and it quickly ruined my blade. Is this not going to work. I need > to come up with some way to make this thing work. > I've been making some progress on my fuselage and hopeing to finish > it by spring then move on to the wing when time allows > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418163#418163 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/jeep_motor_1_118.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_2_491.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_1_908.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:39 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130 From: "Don Emch" I agree with Jack. If you are up in the 120 SFPM range you may want to be using coolant. Many horizontal saws with a coolant pump run well in this range. To be safe with a dry vertical saw, shoot for 80 SFPM. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418176#418176 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: nx727cr build update From: "AircamperN11MS" It is beautiful. The wood reminds me of the old Christ Craft wooden boats. I love it. I love the smell of 4130 in the morning, :) -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418181#418181 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:02 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Off subject-- link to some great WWI era aeroplanes in NZ From: "AircamperN11MS" Oh man, I just wet myself. Wish I was there. reminds me of a bok I just read, "Fighting the flying circus" Great read. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418182#418182 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:09 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Off subject-- link to some great WWI era aeroplanes in NZ For those in the area and interested...=0A=0Ahttp://www.nationalmuseum.af.m il/wwi.asp=0A=0AI plan to be at this event.=0A-=0A=0AIf God is your co-pi lot...switch seats.=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretaker Aer o=0Awww.karetakeraero.com=0A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:05 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: nx727cr build update From: "nightmare" Thats the look im going for. Got scrap pieces from a marine lumber yard near by. Teak and holly ply. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418197#418197 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:29 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: nx727cr build update From: "AircamperN11MS" I can't wait to see the rest of it. Has anyone ever used wood instead of aluminum for the upper part of the fuse over the instrument panels? Your floor boards could look rather smart up there. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418198#418198 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:01 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: nx727cr build update Looks very nice and as with the others, the floor looks really cool!=0A=0AS cott, I have used plywood for the instrument cowlings. Nothing fancy as min e are ultimately going to be painted. If I was using a different paint sche me, I would definitely consider some nice wood and varnish.=0A-=0A=0AIf G od is your co-pilot...switch seats.=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos =0AKaretakerAero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com=0A ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:43 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cobra Torches... From: Ray Krause Guys, Has anyone tried the Cobra acetylene welding system on aircraft tubing? It looks almost as good as TIG welding, uses a very small flame, easy to manage, does not distort the tubing, only very small area is heated. I saw a demo at the farm show and had the fellow weld up a tubing 45 degree joint. Looked really good. Uses only 4PSI oxygen and acetylene. The literature says it is 900 F hotter than normal acetylene flame. Also welds aluminum , stainless, copper, and cast iron. It cuts almost like a plasma cutter, very clean, sharp edges, very little slag. (Cobratorches.com). I tried it and could do a decent weld with no experience with it! I am not a welder! Would like to be! Comments? Ray Krause Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: nx727cr build update From: "aerocarjake" Awesome....!!! Looks just wonderful. Thanks for posting........ Do Not Archive -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418205#418205 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:59 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: nx727cr build update From: "John Francis" It looks great! Then again, so does the green grass. John from cold Ohio. -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418207#418207 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130 From: "womenfly2" You want a Lenox Bi-Metal Band-saw Blade. Standard TPI = 24, 1/2" wide x .025" thk. Any tool shop will make up the length you need or order one on line. Your Band-saw needs to be no more then 200 FPM. Link: LENOX DIEMASTER 2 BI-METAL BAND SAW BLADES (http://www.lenoxtools.com/Pages/Product.aspx?productId=Diemaster2r) Hope this helps, WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418209#418209 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: nx727cr build update From: Ken Bickers I also used plywood (1/16") for my instrument cowlings and for the cowling over my nose tank. Worked great. On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > Looks very nice and as with the others, the floor looks really cool! > > Scott, I have used plywood for the instrument cowlings. Nothing fancy as > mine are ultimately going to be painted. If I was using a different paint > scheme, I would definitely consider some nice wood and varnish. > > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Michael Perez > Pietenpol HINT Videos > Karetaker Aero > www.karetakeraero.com > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:05 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: texas piet. flyin From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" I'll have to drive, but I will try to be there! Any date set? -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418211#418211 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:10 PM PST US From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130 I have one of the Harbor Fright metal cutting band saws too. My blade keeps jumping off though. What I use in real life is a Sears 12" wood cutting bandsaw slowed down with a 1 1/2 hp AC/DC motor with a speed controller. Very expensive motor I salvaged years ago from an old ice cream freezer. Sears sells metal cutting blades of 14 tpi to fit for about $15. If you have a Sears nearby you can pick one up and try it out. Some blades are better than others but you can get a blade quick and not be out much if it doesn't work. They don't last forever, but should make quite a few parts before they dull. If it does work your can order a more quality blade from other sources. Those "zipper" blades about 1/16" cut steel like a hot knife through butter, but I am not so confident about cutting 4130 due to localized heating. I may be worrying needlessly though and there are several engineers here who can steer you right on using them. They are available at Home Cheapo and Lowes and nearly anywhere else that sells tools. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: aviken Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 10:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130 Hi Guys. I need some advice. I have a commercial type band saw that uses a 93 inch blade. It is really for wood, but I have slowed it down with a jack shaft I made, and it is slow enough now. I tried to rip some .100 4130 and it quickly ruined my blade. Is this not going to work. I need to come up with some way to make this thing work. I've been making some progress on my fuselage and hopeing to finish it by spring then move on to the wing when time allows Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418163#418163 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/jeep_motor_1_118.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_2_491.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/controls_1_908.jpg ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:01 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: nx727cr build update From: "nightmare" Scott you found out my secret. Ill be doing similar treatment to entire top of fuselage. 1 ply layer 1/16 or less with veneer strips of teak and holly. But thinking I may stain the thin holly strips black instead. imagine what Caractacus Potts would have built after Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418220#418220 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:34 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130 From: "jarheadpilot82" Here is my version of Glen's Harbor Freight portaband saw. With my 25% off coupon and some scrap lumber and brackets I made my vertical saw for about 65 bucks. It ain't pretty but it has cut .125 thick steel plate. Just buy some metal cutting blades (the one that comes with is a WOOD cutting blade. Go figure), and go slow, or the blade will jump off the track, so to speak. Jake Schultz's setup is a lot better than mine, but he is the one he gave me the idea. If you need more help visualizing how to make it, click on the link below- http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-portaband-into-an-vertical-band-saw/step1/The-Portaband/ -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418226#418226 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_744.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_189.jpg ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:25 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cobra Torches... If that is the pistol grip style torch, Dad has one.- I tried it a few ye ars ago with dads regulators that were kind of crappy (pressure settings wa ndered all over).- I have since bought my own oxy acetylene set up, a Har ris Metal worker set, with the Mid Size Bottles for $750.- Now that I kno w what the heck I am doing I am thinking of borrowing it again and see how I like it.- The hardest thing for me was getting use to holding the torch like a pistol.- I have watched the DVD that came with the Cobra, and the y strongly recomend the 2 $tage regulators for very minute adjustments.- I think the reality is use what you are used to and can make satisfactory w elds with.- In my humble oppinion welding equipment (Especcially Acetylen e) is not something I would buy chineese harbor freight stuff.- They prob ably do as good a job when they work, but with a tank full of very explosiv e gas I fell a little better knowing It wasn't thrown together by the commies.------ =0ASorry to get off topic,=0A-=0AShad=0Ado no t archive=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ray Krause =0ATo: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 1:16 PM=0ASubject: Piet Ray Krause =0A=0AGuys,=0A=0AHas anyone tried the Cobra acetylene welding system on aircraft tubing? It looks almost as good as TIG welding, uses a very small flame, easy to manage, does not distort the tubing, only very small area is heated. I saw a demo at the farm show a nd had the fellow weld up a tubing 45 degree joint. Looked really good. Use s only 4PSI oxygen and acetylene. The literature says it is 900 F hotter th an normal acetylene flame. Also welds aluminum , stainless, copper, and cas t iron. It cuts almost like a plasma cutter, very clean, sharp edges, very little slag. (Cobratorches.com).=0A=0AI tried it and could do a decent weld with no experience with it! I am not a welder! Would like to be!=0A=0AComm -======================== =- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle ======== ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:37 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank From: "jarheadpilot82" Reading through old issues of Sport Aviation Magazine, I came across this article from the January 1990 issue. I have made a copy of the one page and posted it here. I don't think that the lawyers at EAA will shoot me for doing so, but I am giving them full credit for the ownership of the article. I wouldn't want anyone to worry about me taking credit for someone else's work. The article gives you a method for calculating the area of irregular shapes. I used it to get a ballpark idea of the size of my center section fuel tank. I took the template for my fuel tank and measured the side view (which is the airfoil shape between the front and rear spars), then multiplied that by the proposed width of the tank. I used a conservative figure of 20 inches. You then have the volume of your tank in cubic inches. Divide that number by 231 and you should have a fair idea of the volume of your future fuel tank. my Tiger Moth-ish/Douwe Blumberg-ish tank comes in at around 19 gallons and change. Hope that helps. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418232#418232 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/shop_calc_184.png ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:37:26 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cobra Torches... From: "Pietflyer1977" I think you would be happy with it. I have had one for years and really like it. I use mine several times a week. For me it is easier to hold and have more control. It does concentrate the flame and temp. You can weld thin sheet metal nice with minimal warpage but it still will warp. There is a tip for welding thin wall 4130 that to my knowledge doesn't come with there newer kits. You can buy it separate. There are two number two tips. One has a ring at the bottom and the other at the top. The one at the top works best for .035 wall 4130. The older kits had them but that's when they were a Henbrob which is what I have. It isn't a must but there regulators make it a little easier to get 4-5 lbs. most oxygen regulators don't go that low. Also there light weight hoses are nice. Make sure you use smooth rods to clean the tips. The normal tip cleaners with grooves will ruin the tips and will not weld right. With practice you can make a gas weld on your tubing look just like a tig weld. They also weld alum. Nice but you do have to have the correct lens to see the alum. Melt. My opinion is they are well worth there money. Good luck! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418235#418235 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank From: Lion Mason Terry I did it the dumb ass way. I kept filling the tank 1 gallon at a time till it was full and,voila, I had a figure. Gardiner N Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2014, at 6:02 PM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote: > > Reading through old issues of Sport Aviation Magazine, I came across this article from the January 1990 issue. I have made a copy of the one page and posted it here. I don't think that the lawyers at EAA will shoot me for doing so, but I am giving them full credit for the ownership of the article. I wouldn't want anyone to worry about me taking credit for someone else's work. The article gives you a method for calculating the area of irregular shapes. I used it to get a ballpark idea of the size of my center section fuel tank. > > I took the template for my fuel tank and measured the side view (which is the airfoil shape between the front and rear spars), then multiplied that by the proposed width of the tank. I used a conservative figure of 20 inches. You then have the volume of your tank in cubic inches. Divide that number by 231 and you should have a fair idea of the volume of your future fuel tank. my Tiger Moth-ish/Douwe Blumberg-ish tank comes in at around 19 gallons and change. > > Hope that helps. > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418232#418232 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/shop_calc_184.png > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:59:53 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank From: "jarheadpilot82" Gardiner, I did it this way before building my tank so I could adjust the "Tiger Moth-ish" shape to give me the fuel I needed. Not having made my tank, it is helping me in the design phase. Really meant for other active builders, not necessarily those, like you, that have completed their build. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418240#418240 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:48 PM PST US From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank What thickness of alum is good for center section tank ? T3? Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 6, 2014, at 4:47 PM, Lion Mason wrote: > > > Terry I did it the dumb ass way. I kept filling the tank 1 gallon at a time till it was full and,voila, I had a figure. Gardiner > N > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 6, 2014, at 6:02 PM, "jarheadpilot82" wrote: >> >> >> Reading through old issues of Sport Aviation Magazine, I came across this article from the January 1990 issue. I have made a copy of the one page and posted it here. I don't think that the lawyers at EAA will shoot me for doing so, but I am giving them full credit for the ownership of the article. I wouldn't want anyone to worry about me taking credit for someone else's work. The article gives you a method for calculating the area of irregular shapes. I used it to get a ballpark idea of the size of my center section fuel tank. >> >> I took the template for my fuel tank and measured the side view (which is the airfoil shape between the front and rear spars), then multiplied that by the proposed width of the tank. I used a conservative figure of 20 inches. You then have the volume of your tank in cubic inches. Divide that number by 231 and you should have a fair idea of the volume of your future fuel tank. my Tiger Moth-ish/Douwe Blumberg-ish tank comes in at around 19 gallons and change. >> >> Hope that helps. >> >> -------- >> Semper Fi, >> >> Terry Hand >> Athens, GA >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418232#418232 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/shop_calc_184.png > > > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:03 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank From: "jarheadpilot82" Glen, Here is a link to a Tony Bingelis article about aluminum fuel tanks- http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/authors/bingelis/4How%20About%20An%20Aluminum%20Fuel%20Tank_.html Hopefully, it can answer a lot of your questions. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418247#418247 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:08 PM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cobra Torches... Thanks, nice pointers. I will go back to the Farm Show and buy a set. Not sure which tips it comes with. I have cheap "Harbor Fright" regulators, they may not work. I will see. I think I would feel more secure with this setup than a TIG, which I have tried. And, it is a lot cheaper! I just hope the welds are as strong as the TIG. THANKS, RAY KRAUSE Sent from my iPad > On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:36 PM, "Pietflyer1977" wrote: > > > I think you would be happy with it. I have had one for years and really like it. I use mine several times a week. For me it is easier to hold and have more control. It does concentrate the flame and temp. You can weld thin sheet metal nice with minimal warpage but it still will warp. There is a tip for welding thin wall 4130 that to my knowledge doesn't come with there newer kits. You can buy it separate. There are two number two tips. One has a ring at the bottom and the other at the top. The one at the top works best for .035 wall 4130. The older kits had them but that's when they were a Henbrob which is what I have. It isn't a must but there regulators make it a little easier to get 4-5 lbs. most oxygen regulators don't go that low. Also there light weight hoses are nice. Make sure you use smooth rods to clean the tips. The normal tip cleaners with grooves will ruin the tips and will not weld right. With practice you can make a gas weld on your tubing look just like a tig! > weld. They also weld alum. Nice but you do have to have the correct lens to see the alum. Melt. My opinion is they are well worth there money. Good luck! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418235#418235 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:11 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank From: "Braniff1966" that's how I did it. one gal at a time in a milk jug.. I teach aviation science at a college and we use terrys method.. hyde Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418250#418250 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:25 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: texas piet. flyin From: "Braniff1966" still looking into it.. not much interest so far jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418251#418251 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:43 PM PST US From: Joemotis Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cobra Torches... Oh heck yes -----Original Message----- From: shad bell Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cobra Torches... If that is the pistol grip style torch, Dad has one.- I tried it a few ye ars ago with dads regulators that were kind of crappy (pressure settings wa ndered all over).- I have since bought my own oxy acetylene set up, a Har ris Metal worker set, with the Mid Size Bottles for $750.- Now that I kno w what the heck I am doing I am thinking of borrowing it again and see how I like it.- The hardest thing for me was getting use to holding the torch like a pistol.- I have watched the DVD that came with the Cobra, and the y strongly recomend the 2 $tage regulators for very minute adjustments.- I think the reality is use what you are used to and can make satisfactory w elds with.- In my humble oppinion welding equipment (Especcially Acetylen e) is not something I would buy chineese harbor freight stuff.- They prob ably do as good a job when they work, but with a tank full of very explosiv e gas I fell a little better knowing It wasn't thrown together by the commi es.------ Sorry to get off topic, - Shad do not archive [The entire original message is not included] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.