Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:09 AM - Re: Cutting 4130 (aviken)
2. 08:03 AM - Re: Cutting 4130 (tools)
3. 08:17 AM - Re: Cobra Torches... (tools)
4. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: Cutting 4130 (Michael Perez)
5. 10:25 AM - streamline tubing-- looking for surplus (Timothy Willis)
6. 10:45 AM - Re: streamline tubing-- looking for surplus (Michael Perez)
7. 11:19 AM - Re: Cutting 4130 (curtdm(at)gmail.com)
8. 11:32 AM - Tim Willis-- welcome back (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
9. 11:56 AM - 4130 from wicks (shad bell)
10. 12:46 PM - Re: Wheel alignment.... (Bill Church)
11. 01:15 PM - Re: streamline tubing-- looking for surplus (Jack)
12. 02:49 PM - Re: Cutting 4130 (aerocarjake)
13. 05:57 PM - Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank (taildrags)
14. 06:59 PM - Re: Cutting 4130 (Jerry Dotson)
15. 08:21 PM - Re: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank (Brian Kenney)
16. 08:26 PM - Re: Re: Cobra Torches... (Ray Krause)
17. 08:39 PM - Re: Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel tank (glenschweizer@yahoo.com)
18. 08:57 PM - Re: Re: Cobra Torches... (glenschweizer@yahoo.com)
19. 09:56 PM - Re: Re: Cutting 4130 (mdsalern@yahoo.com)
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting 4130 |
Thanks for all the response to my question. I did some calculations this morning
and was surprised . Even though I had slowed my band saw down with a double
set of pulleys, I found it was no where near the 80 feet per minute needed.
By putting a piece of masking tape on the blade and counting the revolutions
I determined I was way fast. A 93 inch blade is 7.7 feet long so it can make
just over 10 revs per minute. My speed was 46 revs. per minute. So I've got
work to do. I have a small gear box that was used on a commercial bread kneading
machine that I considered using at the start, but was concerned that it
would be too slow. I was probably wrong. I'll try it now. Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418268#418268
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting 4130 |
Ya, it's tough to really slow the things down. It's along the lines of TWO sets
of pulleys, 2" and 20"... or more shafts.
A gear reducer makes quick work. You really can't be TOO slow. If it is, you'll
just need to feed slower. Not a big deal in a non production environment.
BTW, with the HF style horiz/vert metal cutters, the blade jumping is usually a
worn bushing on the main drive wheel shaft. Don't know why it's a bushing there,
but it is. Easy to replace, nearly always fixes the problem.
With the portabands, it's a matter of the thing flexing one of the wheels on it's
shaft, giving "jumping" geometry. If you can adjust the track, overcompensate
(which wears the flange on the wheels quicker... that flange thickness is
how you determine the real wear on a metal cutter, the worn out saws have a very
thin flange) and you can push a little harder.
It doesn't hurt to take a small whetstone to the BACK of the blade. As it's spinning,
hold the stone on the black of the blade to smooth it out a bit, and round
over the edges just a little. It'll prevent some wear on the saw, and can
extend blade life. This is also a good idea on wood cutting blades.
On a combo saw, spin the blade at wood speeds to do this easier.
With lubricant, I've found in a non production setting no lube at all works pretty
good. It seems total flooding, or nothing works best. SOME lube tends to
gum up everything. The swarf accumulating on the wheels under the blade can
also cause tracking and jumping problems.
With 4130 lube probably does help more than other metals, so just be sure and stop
and clean the saw more often to prevent other problems and fustrations.
When you're cutting, try to keep an eye on the swarf pile. It needs to be steadily
accumulating. If it's not, the blade is rubbing and not cutting well, probably
need more pressure. If the saw is rapidly cranking through, probably need
to reduce pressure so as not to break teeth.
When you cut a tube, for example, the pressure required changes quite a bit as
you cut through. In other words, the feed rate shouldn't be constant, because
the nature of the cut isn't constant. The "chip load" should be as constant
as possible. This is the best user (during use) variable you have to prevent
localized work hardening.
It's sort of intuitive on a vertical saw where the user does all the feeding.
Not so obvious on a horiz saw where gravity (and springs and hydraulic cylinders)
help regulate the cut.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418281#418281
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| Subject: | Re: Cobra Torches... |
These things are really controversial... However, I like mine.
I haven't really figured out how to use them correctly though. Like everything,
the demos are a bit misleading, but only in they make it seem easier than it
is. However, they're CLEARLY doing it! And I really believe it'll do things
a regular OA torch won't (though someone REALLY skilled could prove that wrong
I suppose).
Like all OA sets, super versatile. I did weld some 4130 once early on and made
the MOST BEAUTIFUL looking welds ever... then tried some testing on them. Turned
out there was NO PENETRATION at all. Really weird.
So, while I also recommend them, I would also recommend really spending some time
with them until you really figure them out. Like ALL tools, they require skill.
There's nothing magic about them. I think most of the naysayers are folks
who are good at OTHER OA torches and figure if they can't make these work,
they're smoke and mirrors. When it's probably more a case of they just don't
know how to make THESE torches work.
They really are super nice guys who will do their level best to get you going.
I also recommend good regulators that'll do well at lower levels. Like most
chinese stuff, it's a matter of hit and miss, and longevity. Good regulators
out of the gate will most likely save a lot of frustration.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418282#418282
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting 4130 |
If you are really motivated, wanted to take the time and are curious if it
will work...=0A=0Ahttps://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/plans/index.html=0A-=0A=0A
If God is your co-pilot...switch seats.=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Vi
deos=0AKaretaker Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com=0A
Message 5
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| Subject: | streamline tubing-- looking for surplus |
The good news is that I may be able to get back to building after a nearly
30 month hiatus. The bad news is that I need some 4130 tubing, now priced
more dearly.
Thus I am hoping to find that one of you has some unused 4130 streamline
tubing in good shape. I need two pieces perhaps as long as 42 inches* each
for my diagonal cabanes. [* My vertical cabanes are longer than plans, and
are tipped back 6 inches until I go on Nutrisystem.]
The major axis of the tubing I seek can be anywhere from 1.3 to nearly 3.0
inches. I can adapt lengths somewhat shorter if you have them. Thinner
walls (like .049) are better.
I also need several pieces round 4130 tubing in about 0.5 diameter, OD or
ID, in similar lengths, again thin walls, for jury struts and other apps.
When Dillsburg went out of biz, ACS and Wicks sure raised their prices. I
thought I had all I would need, but not so. I hate to cut into some older
intact struts for pieces, and some of what I have is in bad shape or just
too short. So I am hoping to get better pricing from a fellow Pieter.
Rather than cluttering up the board with many responses, please email me
what you have by direct email. If you think you might need what you have
left over, I certainly understand.
Thanks,
Tim in central TX
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: streamline tubing-- looking for surplus |
Hi Tim. I know you wanted replys off list, but if you can't use what I have
, perhaps someone else can.=0A=0AI have a single length of 4130 tube, .5"
- X .035"- 63" length.=0A=0A-=0A=0A-=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot..
.switch seats.=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretaker Aero=0Aw
ww.karetakeraero.com=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Timo
thy Willis <timwillis01@gmail.com>=0ATo: matronics piet site <pietenpol-lis
t@matronics.com> =0ASent: Friday, February 7, 2014 1:25 PM=0ASubject: Piete
npol-List: streamline tubing-- looking for surplus=0A =0A=0A=0AThe good new
s is that I may be able to get back to building after a nearly 30 month hia
tus. -The bad news is that I need some 4130 tubing, now priced more dearl
y.=0A=0AThus I am hoping to find that one of you has some unused 4130 strea
mline tubing in good shape. -I need two pieces perhaps as long as 42 inch
es* each for my diagonal cabanes. -[* My vertical cabanes are longer than
plans, and are tipped back 6 inches until I go on Nutrisystem.]=0A=0AThe m
ajor axis of the tubing I seek can be anywhere from 1.3 to nearly 3.0 inche
s. -I can adapt lengths somewhat shorter if you have them. -Thinner wal
ls (like .049) are better.-=0A=0A=0A=0AI also need several pieces round 4
130 tubing in about 0.5 diameter, OD or ID, in similar lengths, again thin
walls, for jury struts and other apps.-=0A=0A=0AWhen Dillsburg went out o
f biz, ACS and Wicks sure raised their prices. -I thought I had all I wou
ld need, but not so. -I hate to cut into some older intact struts for pie
ces, and some of what I have is in bad shape or just too short. -So I am
hoping to get better pricing from a fellow Pieter.=0A=0ARather than clutter
ing up the board with many responses, please email me what you have by dire
ct email. -If you think you might need what you have left over, I certain
=======
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting 4130 |
A special thanks to Jake Schultz for his setup. I did mine very similar to his
also but without a new bed. Works great! Just 3 little strap steel brackets and
a piece of wood.
--------
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418291#418291
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_139.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_170.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_498.jpg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Tim Willis-- welcome back |
Great to hear that you're back to building Tim. I know you were telling Ja
ck Phillips and I a few years ago of the difficult
time you were having trying to make time to build but SO glad you're hoping
to get back to building.
Mike C.
Ohio
Message 9
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When ordering from- Wicks, make sure you specify American or German tubin
g, they sell a lot of Chineese 4130 Tubing, it is stated on there web site
so it's got to be true (" I'm a French Model").- Voglesong (Dillsberg) us
ed to sell a bunch of the chineese stuff as well, that was part of the reas
on his prices were cheaper.- He sold me a bunch of the chineese stuff a f
ew years ago that I welded up some rudder peddals with, they still are not
in service so I can't say one way or the other as to how it will hold up.
- The chineese stuff does not have the same finish the american steel has
, U.S stuff is shiny gloss black, chineese stuff is flat grey-ish black.-
I did happen to notice on the German tubing I got from Aircraft Spruce a c
ouple weeks ago that it is more of a flat grey/black, and not real shiny.
- Maybe someone on here that knows about the manufacturing process, and w
hat the differences may be, and if it really maters.-=0A-=0AShad
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wheel alignment.... |
I knew I remembered reading an article about this topic, and finally managed to
find it. This is from the Summer 2005 edition of "To Fly" magazine (published
by the Sport Aviation Association).
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418298#418298
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/toe_in_out_saa2005_981.pdf
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: streamline tubing-- looking for surplus |
Welcome back Tim. I bough 4 Cub struts at OSH for ? 200? Included the barrel
s and bolts
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Feb 7, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> wrot
e:
>
> Hi Tim. I know you wanted replys off list, but if you can't use what I hav
e, perhaps someone else can.
>
> I have a single length of 4130 tube, .5" X .035" 63" length.
>
>
>
> If God is your co-pilot...switch seats.
> Michael Perez
> Pietenpol HINT Videos
> Karetaker Aero
> www.karetakeraero.com
>
> From: Timothy Willis <timwillis01@gmail.com>
> To: matronics piet site <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 7, 2014 1:25 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: streamline tubing-- looking for surplus
>
> The good news is that I may be able to get back to building after a nearly
30 month hiatus. The bad news is that I need some 4130 tubing, now priced m
ore dearly.
>
> Thus I am hoping to find that one of you has some unused 4130 streamline t
ubing in good shape. I need two pieces perhaps as long as 42 inches* each f
or my diagonal cabanes. [* My vertical cabanes are longer than plans, and a
re tipped back 6 inches until I go on Nutrisystem.]
>
> The major axis of the tubing I seek can be anywhere from 1.3 to nearly 3.0
inches. I can adapt lengths somewhat shorter if you have them. Thinner wa
lls (like .049) are better.
>
> I also need several pieces round 4130 tubing in about 0.5 diameter, OD or I
D, in similar lengths, again thin walls, for jury struts and other apps.
>
> When Dillsburg went out of biz, ACS and Wicks sure raised their prices. I
thought I had all I would need, but not so. I hate to cut into some older i
ntact struts for pieces, and some of what I have is in bad shape or just too
short. So I am hoping to get better pricing from a fellow Pieter.
>
> Rather than cluttering up the board with many responses, please email me w
hat you have by direct email. If you think you might need what you have lef
t over, I certainly understand.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim in central TX
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listw" target="_blank" href
="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://=========
=============
>
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting 4130 |
hanks for the kudos.... Can't imagine cutting all the 4130 without this small bandsaw.
It's from Harbor Freight but it is the only portable metal bandsaw I know
of hhat "twists" the blade so you can cut an infinite length or width of stock.
I use reaal good "milwaukee" 24 tooth blades. It will cut through 4130 plate
all day long with no fluids. You sure so need hearing protection, however.
Picked up some brand new Honda ATV brake calipers and the welder comes again in
two weeks - gotta get more done on the landing gear before he arrives.....
Having a great journey and some of the folks on this list are the best part........
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418305#418305
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: How to figure the volume of your center section fuel |
tank
NINETEEN GALLONS? You can fit that much in your Tiger Moth-ish center section
wing tank, Terry? Wow. I tried calculating the approximate volume of a classic-styled
Air Camper center section tank (no deHavilland hump) by using AutoCAD.
With both the front and the back of the tank sloped to a center drain, it came
out less than 12 gallons if I remember correctly. If you're able to get 19
gallons and you fly a small Continental, you'll be able to circumnavigate the
earth, unrefueled ;o) Throttle it back to 55% power and you can loiter at 500'
for about six hours and still have 30 minute VFR fuel reserves!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418323#418323
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting 4130 |
This is sort of on topic:
A treadmill motor and controls makes plenty of power to run most any shop tool
that turns slow. Makes a great variable speed drive that can be had from real
cheap to free.
I sawed a lot of my 4130 sheet with an antique 2 speed saber saw. Worked pretty
good.
--------
Jerry Dotson
First flight June 16,2012
Flying in phase 2
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418326#418326
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: How to figure the volume of your center section |
fuel tank
I have 17.2 US gal in my 65 hp Piet the capacity comes in handy because most trips
you can go there and back with the fuel you can carry. It takes discipline
not to fill it all the time. That's a lot of weight.
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 8, 2014, at 3:00 PM, "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> NINETEEN GALLONS? You can fit that much in your Tiger Moth-ish center section
wing tank, Terry? Wow. I tried calculating the approximate volume of a classic-styled
Air Camper center section tank (no deHavilland hump) by using AutoCAD.
With both the front and the back of the tank sloped to a center drain, it
came out less than 12 gallons if I remember correctly. If you're able to get
19 gallons and you fly a small Continental, you'll be able to circumnavigate
the earth, unrefueled ;o) Throttle it back to 55% power and you can loiter at
500' for about six hours and still have 30 minute VFR fuel reserves!
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418323#418323
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Cobra Torches... |
Oscar,
Thanks for your opinion, which I respect highly. I did buy a kit of the Cobra torches
because, as you said, they make it look easy. When he welded the 4130
for me, I took it home and beat on it a little with the hammer, it did not come
apart. Tomorrow I will bisect it and see what the welds look like on the inside.
The mild steel he welded had good penetration, but it was thin. I will try
some .090 and see how it works. Not sure my regulators will deliver 4PSI. It
is all research! My thought was that the Cobra would be about the same cost
as getting all the setup for the smaller standard torches. But if I have to get
new regulators, I will be spending even more money! Oh well, it's nothing money
can't fix!
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 7, 2014, at 8:16 AM, "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> These things are really controversial... However, I like mine.
>
> I haven't really figured out how to use them correctly though. Like everything,
the demos are a bit misleading, but only in they make it seem easier than
it is. However, they're CLEARLY doing it! And I really believe it'll do things
a regular OA torch won't (though someone REALLY skilled could prove that wrong
I suppose).
>
> Like all OA sets, super versatile. I did weld some 4130 once early on and made
the MOST BEAUTIFUL looking welds ever... then tried some testing on them.
Turned out there was NO PENETRATION at all. Really weird.
>
> So, while I also recommend them, I would also recommend really spending some
time with them until you really figure them out. Like ALL tools, they require
skill. There's nothing magic about them. I think most of the naysayers are
folks who are good at OTHER OA torches and figure if they can't make these work,
they're smoke and mirrors. When it's probably more a case of they just don't
know how to make THESE torches work.
>
> They really are super nice guys who will do their level best to get you going.
I also recommend good regulators that'll do well at lower levels. Like most
chinese stuff, it's a matter of hit and miss, and longevity. Good regulators
out of the gate will most likely save a lot of frustration.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418282#418282
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: How to figure the volume of your center section |
fuel tank
Hi Terry
Thanks for the link Ihave all of Uncle Tony's books. Like a bonehead, I just asked
instead of asking our uncle. Thanks
Glen
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 6, 2014, at 6:58 PM, "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Glen,
>
> Here is a link to a Tony Bingelis article about aluminum fuel tanks-
>
> http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/authors/bingelis/4How%20About%20An%20Aluminum%20Fuel%20Tank_.html
>
> Hopefully, it can answer a lot of your questions.
>
> --------
> Semper Fi,
>
> Terry Hand
> Athens, GA
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> Read this topic online here:
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> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418247#418247
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Cobra Torches... |
Hi Ray
When welding anything,the strength of that weld is going to depend on many factors.
The heat has to be suficient to melt all material to a temp
Witch allows them to flow into one another(100 percent penetration). Lack of porosity
is also critical. That is controlled with proper gas regulation and position
within the flame cone where the. Welding takes place. The low volume torches
might do very well for thinner material but maybe not so well on thicker
stuff.
When you. Test your welds the material welded should break before the weld after
thAt. Cut or file the weld so that you can do a magnified inspection of your
welds. Short of. X-ray that's been the most reliable method I've found to really
study them damned welds. Practice inspect practice practice
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 7, 2014, at 8:26 PM, Ray Krause <raykrause@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>
> Oscar,
>
> Thanks for your opinion, which I respect highly. I did buy a kit of the Cobra
torches because, as you said, they make it look easy. When he welded the 4130
for me, I took it home and beat on it a little with the hammer, it did not
come apart. Tomorrow I will bisect it and see what the welds look like on the
inside. The mild steel he welded had good penetration, but it was thin. I will
try some .090 and see how it works. Not sure my regulators will deliver 4PSI.
It is all research! My thought was that the Cobra would be about the same cost
as getting all the setup for the smaller standard torches. But if I have to
get new regulators, I will be spending even more money! Oh well, it's nothing
money can't fix!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray Krause
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Feb 7, 2014, at 8:16 AM, "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> These things are really controversial... However, I like mine.
>>
>> I haven't really figured out how to use them correctly though. Like everything,
the demos are a bit misleading, but only in they make it seem easier than
it is. However, they're CLEARLY doing it! And I really believe it'll do things
a regular OA torch won't (though someone REALLY skilled could prove that wrong
I suppose).
>>
>> Like all OA sets, super versatile. I did weld some 4130 once early on and made
the MOST BEAUTIFUL looking welds ever... then tried some testing on them.
Turned out there was NO PENETRATION at all. Really weird.
>>
>> So, while I also recommend them, I would also recommend really spending some
time with them until you really figure them out. Like ALL tools, they require
skill. There's nothing magic about them. I think most of the naysayers are
folks who are good at OTHER OA torches and figure if they can't make these work,
they're smoke and mirrors. When it's probably more a case of they just don't
know how to make THESE torches work.
>>
>> They really are super nice guys who will do their level best to get you going.
I also recommend good regulators that'll do well at lower levels. Like most
chinese stuff, it's a matter of hit and miss, and longevity. Good regulators
out of the gate will most likely save a lot of frustration.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418282#418282
>
>
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>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Cutting 4130 |
Dear Mr. Dodson:
You have the largest motor I have seen on a Pietenpol. What kind of climb figures
are you getting?
Thanks,
Mike Salerno
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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