---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/14/14: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:56 AM - Re: Ailerons, up and down (womenfly2) 2. 05:13 AM - Re: tense about cables (danhelsper@aol.com) 3. 05:34 AM - Re: tense about cables (tools) 4. 05:44 AM - Re: tail hinges (tools) 5. 05:44 AM - Re: tense about cables (danhelsper@aol.com) 6. 05:50 AM - Re: tense about cables (Gary Boothe) 7. 05:58 AM - tail brace cables (Douwe Blumberg) 8. 06:04 AM - Re: tense about cables (Michael Weston) 9. 08:36 AM - Dan Helsper - Master Prop Carver (Gary Boothe) 10. 08:50 AM - Re: tail hinges (nightmare) 11. 10:15 AM - Re: tail hinges (taildrags) 12. 10:19 AM - Re: tail brace cables (taildrags) 13. 11:37 AM - You want to see some real talent? (danhelsper@aol.com) 14. 12:56 PM - Re: tail hinges (nightmare) 15. 01:12 PM - Re: tail hinges (taildrags) 16. 04:13 PM - Carollton Ga. Gang (Bill R) 17. 04:33 PM - Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (Gardiner Mason) 18. 07:41 PM - Re: tail hinges (nightmare) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:40 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ailerons, up and down From: "womenfly2" To add, one needs to seal the aileron gap. The ailerons will be very less effective the slower the air-speed do to the air bleed between the gap. The gap on an aileron is only good if you have a "Frise" design aileron. Seal it anyway you want, just seal it for the full length of the aileron. More of a safe control issue. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418686#418686 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables From: danhelsper@aol.com Michael, uhh..........love you man, but you know, you have opened a very sore subjec t once again. Bones of contention long-ago buried but now once again brough t to the surface to be rehashed and relived with opened wounds. So many dis agreements...."DING"..."WANG"...."DUNNNGG".... But of course my friend Gary is correct, with the proper "TWANG". Proof positive is the result. His air plane flies perfectly,....like mine. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 6:06 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables Michael, Did you know that the matronics web site has a search engine? If you input "Cable Tension", you will see 101 entries! The answer is simply a dull "THWANG." Make all the same tone and you'll be golden. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Weston Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables --> hey,i'm making the brace cables for the fin and horizontal stabilizer, but... how tight should they be, and what is the procedure for checking? thanks mike w. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:41 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tense about cables From: "tools" Michael? Who me? Only my mother calls me Michael... This must mean I'm in trouble. Sorry. I can't rely on the "twang", I'm tone deaf. Can't carry a tune in a bucket... Evenly Gutensnug? Does that work? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418689#418689 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:18 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail hinges From: "tools" If you're considering nut plates... here's what I just learned... The aircraft variants are lock nuts. You have to push on a phillips decently to get them in. If you install the nut plates with nails or glue, you'll likely pop one loose. Then you've got a mess... I just redid all of mine with #2 wood screws to hold the nut plates. Also, use BRAND NEW phillips fasteners and a BRAND NEW screwdriver. Or, better yet, use a fancy new fangled drive (square, T series, perhaps hex) that'll prevent you from having to push at all, lessening the chance of taking one loose during installation. You can make your own nut plates too, using a pinched style of lock nut by brazing to a plate. I wouldn't use nylon in this case since the brazing would probably mess up the nylon... Probably don't have to use lock nuts, just preflight well, or use lock washers on the outside. I'd cover the part with fasteners partially inserted to prevent any paint substance from getting inside them during covering and painting. Can't really clean lock nuts effectively with a tap afterwards, without removing most of the "lock". Sans lock nuts at all, I'd use fine thread as that's better for vibration resistance. Regular threads are for strength. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418690#418690 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables From: danhelsper@aol.com Woops...but of course..... I meant to say.... "THWANG". Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: danhelsper Sent: Fri, Feb 14, 2014 7:13 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables Michael, uhh..........love you man, but you know, you have opened a very sore subjec t once again. Bones of contention long-ago buried but now once again brough t to the surface to be rehashed and relived with opened wounds. So many dis agreements...."DING"..."WANG"...."DUNNNGG".... But of course my friend Gary is correct, with the proper "TWANG". Proof positive is the result. His air plane flies perfectly,....like mine. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 6:06 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables Michael, Did you know that the matronics web site has a search engine? If you input "Cable Tension", you will see 101 entries! The answer is simply a dull "THWANG." Make all the same tone and you'll be golden. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Weston Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables --> hey,i'm making the brace cables for the fin and horizontal stabilizer, but... how tight should they be, and what is the procedure for checking? thanks mike w. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:39 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables "THWANG" in California could easily be "TWANG" in Tennessee. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danhelsper@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 5:44 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables Woops...but of course..... I meant to say.... "THWANG". Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: danhelsper Sent: Fri, Feb 14, 2014 7:13 am Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables Michael, uhh..........love you man, but you know, you have opened a very sore subject once again. Bones of contention long-ago buried but now once again brought to the surface to be rehashed and relived with opened wounds. So many disagreements...."DING"..."WANG"...."DUNNNGG".... But of course my friend Gary is correct, with the proper "TWANG". Proof positive is the result. His airplane flies perfectly,....like mine. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2014 6:06 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables Michael, Did you know that the matronics web site has a search engine? If you input "Cable Tension", you will see 101 entries! The answer is simply a dull "THWANG." Make all the same tone and you'll be golden. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Michael Weston Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables --> hey,i'm making the brace cables for the fin and horizontal stabilizer, but... how tight should they be, and what is the procedure for checking? thanks mike w. " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:56 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail brace cables Hey Mike, A dull "thwang" is the basic advice I received when I asked. It's hard to quantify many things on a Piet and this seems to be one of them. I think good common sense dictates here, so here's some basic common sense things to put into the mix. 1. it's a wood structure so the cables shouldn't exert unnecessary force. 2. the tail group is in the prop wash and really want a lot, so you don't want the cables to allow for ANY movement. 3. the tail alignment makes HUGE differences to your final trim, so the cables need to be easily adjusted during initial trim-in I think the main thing is to have them tight enough so nothing that move, and that they all be the same tension. I sat in on a lecture at Brodhead where the speaker talked a lot about tail alignment and the value of taking a lot of time in ensuring that everything is square, including taking a measurement from the center of the fuse somewhere up front and ensuring the horizontal stab is exactly square as viewed from above. I worked hard to do this and she never needed a single tweak. Douwe ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:14 AM PST US From: Michael Weston Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tense about cables thanks guys. mike w. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:36 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dan Helsper - Master Prop Carver I was reminded this morning.lest there be any doubt!! https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t31/966161_720670207955168_1219 477678_o.jpg Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:18 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail hinges From: "nightmare" Yes Ill definitely take care to fasten my fasteners firmly. I have been using t nuts with epoxy around perimeter of back side but after your experience I may put a wood screw or two just outside of perimeter as well so that the head holds it down. Thanks for advice. Welded first hinge together last night. I cant get over how much fun im having building these many many little parts. Just a bonus that these assembled parts will eventually allow me to get airborne. Paul -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418699#418699 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:39 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail hinges From: "taildrags" I don't have anything useful to offer here, but the tail surfaces on my airplane have the cast Vi Kapler hinges rotating on clevis pins secured by cotter pins. My comment about them is that they are possibly the most difficult and frustrating cotter pins to install on the entire airplane. The space in the control surface gap is limited and it's difficult to keep the clevis pin from rotating while you try to spread the legs of the cotter pin, and proper cotter pin installation requires that you clip back the legs... which gives you even less leverage to spread them and then fold them back around the clevis pin. It's a job best done with two people, and preferably one or both persons will have small hands. And finally, if you do it right the first time, you'll only have to do it once. I've done it more than once. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418702#418702 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail brace cables From: "taildrags" I second what Douwe said, since I have looked back at the tail surfaces as I've gone through bumpy air and they really do get buffeted around a lot from the propwash and everything else. The brace wires should definitely not have any slack or looseness in them, but respect the strength of the wood and don't tighten them to Tiny Tim ukelele tension. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418703#418703 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: You want to see some real talent? From: danhelsper@aol.com There are many many talented people on this list. Some we know about and so me we don't. Here are just a couple: http://www.douwestudios.com/large_video.html http://youtu.be/EkGNAqlkQnY Dan Helsper Puryear, TN ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail hinges From: "nightmare" Thanks Oscar. As a pain in the butt it sounds, nut and bolt probably even more difficult. Can only find these clevis pins on AS&S http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/clevispinsgrid.php?clickkey=5503 They say that are for secondary controls only??? -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418711#418711 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail hinges From: "taildrags" Paul; it's not a problem... all of the flight controls on my airplane are secondary. I am the only primary flight controller aboard. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418712#418712 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:53 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Carollton Ga. Gang From: "Bill R" New builder in Griffin Georgia. I am beginning a steel tube fuse Aircamper. So far I have a box full of 4130 fittings made and have started the empenage. I am looking for contact info for the guys in Carrolton Georgia, I understand they built several very nice steel tube Aircampers. Any help would be appreciated. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418718#418718 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Carollton Ga. Gang From: Gardiner Mason Bill, contact Barry Davis in Carrollton . His phone is7703018087 after 10 am. I have a pietenpol also in Lagrange. Gardiner Mason. 706 594 3811 Sent from my iPad On Feb 14, 2014, at 7:13 PM, "Bill R" wrote: > > New builder in Griffin Georgia. I am beginning a steel tube fuse Aircamper. > So far I have a box full of 4130 fittings made and have started the empenage. I am looking for contact info for the guys in Carrolton Georgia, I understand they built several very nice steel tube Aircampers. Any help would be appreciated. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418718#418718 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:25 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tail hinges From: "nightmare" Too funny. Love it -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418724#418724 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.