---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/16/14: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:52 AM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (jarheadpilot82) 2. 06:40 AM - Re: Re: Volkswagen Engine (Steven Dortch) 3. 07:07 AM - Re: Volkswagen Engine (Steven Dortch) 4. 07:16 AM - Bingelis books $20 off! (Jack) 5. 08:02 AM - Re: Volkswagen Engine (papadave) 6. 10:41 AM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (taildrags) 7. 10:58 AM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (jarheadpilot82) 8. 12:30 PM - A65 Rose Bowl cut outs (Gerry Holland) 9. 01:29 PM - Re: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (g. doe) 10. 02:02 PM - Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs (Gardiner Mason) 11. 03:04 PM - ham radio Freqs () 12. 03:57 PM - Re: ham radio Freqs (jim hyde) 13. 03:59 PM - Re: ham radio Freqs (jim hyde) 14. 04:33 PM - Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (nightmare) 15. 05:37 PM - Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs (taildrags) 16. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (Steven Dortch) 17. 05:44 PM - Eyebrow cowlings (Steven Dortch) 18. 06:01 PM - Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs (Don Emch) 19. 07:15 PM - Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (nightmare) 20. 07:20 PM - Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (nightmare) 21. 08:22 PM - Re: Eyebrow cowlings (taildrags) 22. 09:53 PM - Re: Scouting for a new home (taildrags) 23. 09:56 PM - Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (tools) 24. 10:02 PM - Re: Re: Scouting for a new home (Ray Krause) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:02 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison From: "jarheadpilot82" Oscar, Does any of this help? -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418781#418781 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2014_02_16_at_74611_am_512.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2014_02_16_at_74536_am_305.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2014_02_16_at_74329_am_589.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2014_02_16_at_74218_am_165.png http://forums.matronics.com//files/screen_shot_2014_02_16_at_73944_am_721.png ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Volkswagen Engine From: Steven Dortch Aviken, Have you looked at any jeep modifications to the Go-devil engine? Surely someone hopped that engine up. There might even be some fairly low tech improvements. On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 5:11 PM, aviken wrote: > > Hi Dave. Welcome to the site. I am relatively new myself, I only started > building in early Nov. last year. I too have ideas of using a > non-traditional pietenpol engine, I am in the process of ground testing a > jeep 134 go-devil engine to see if it will spin a prop up sufficiently. > It may not have enough guts to do the job, and if it doesn't I will go > with something else. > I hope you enjoy your build as much as I have so far. Get to cutting and > glueing you will have a great time. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418762#418762 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Volkswagen Engine From: Steven Dortch To echo what you have heard and restate it. The VW makes its Horsepower at higher RPM. That works for something like a speedy little Sonex type plane. But for the slower Pietenpol, it prefers a slower revving higher torque engine swinging a longer prop. To get the VW to do this you have to get an RPM reduction drive. Much like a old fashioned jeep made a lot of torque down low to get out of mud at slowspeed. VS a roadrace motorcycle. I have been told that some of the Corvair engines make 140 HP but really only have about 100 HP useable at the right speeds for the prop. But I may be wrong on that. Blue Skies, Steve D On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 9:10 AM, papadave wrote: > > I'm new. Just got my plans from Andrew Pietenpol and a mechanic friend of > mine says he has several VW engines and he'd let me have one pretty cheap > and I'm wondering what are the major considerations for choosing an engine? > I haven't read the plans or manual yet and I have all of Tony Bengalis's > books coming from EAA (which I promise to read cover to cover). Do you > think VW is a viable option or a wild goose chase? Would appreciate input > from the group. > > -------- > Dave > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418736#418736 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:26 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bingelis books $20 off! From: Jack http://www.shopeaa.com/bingelissetof4.aspx Sent from my iPad Jack Textor ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:34 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Volkswagen Engine From: "papadave" Thanks everybody for insight on the VW engine. I was just checking for my mechanic friend who has some VW engines he wants to get rid of. I'm not exactly Mr. Goodwrench and the Continental C-85 sounds more in line with my objectives: - fits in with the Pietenpol plans - common engine that I can get help with - can use 100LL AVGAS that is available at every airport that sells fuel. - like, Jeff, I want to be able to fly with two people on hot summer days. Thanks everybody! -------- Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418793#418793 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:59 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison From: "taildrags" Terry; yes, those tables are of some use but I would have to calculate the section moduli and all of that, to get a good cross-reference of an aluminum tube that is equivalent to steel. Rainy day activity ;o) Thanks. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418799#418799 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:58:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison From: "jarheadpilot82" I was a section leader when I flew in the Marine Corps but I know nothing about section moduli. Let us know what you find out. I would be curious to know how aluminum tubing compares with 1018 steel. FWIW, those screenshots came from onlinemetals.com -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418800#418800 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs From: Gerry Holland Gentlemen Hi. I have just had made new aluminium front cowling 'rose bowl'. The lower half was manufactured with no cut outs or holes. Do I need to cut out the one or two holes I've observed on other aircraft such as J3's or can I just leave as complete? The A65 install has so much air passing through the engine compartment it hardly seems necessary. Thanks Gerry ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:19 PM PST US From: "g. doe" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang Try to find Nathan Rounds, may be on this list, has had a nice Piet for a l ong time and does excellent work, down by Lebanon, GA, not far from you, ga ry-=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, February 15, 2014 9:55 PM, Larry Williams =0A=0ABe careful who you look to for ideas. The group you are referring to did NOT build Pietenpol Air Campers. Their airc raft are so highly modified and changed from the original that referring to them as Pietenpol's is stretching credibility pretty far. =0ALook at other projects and incorporate changes that make sense to you but always keep li ghtness and simplicity at the top of your list. Don't get led down the path of modernizing or beefing-up which is a recipe for a heavy airplane that i s sure to disappoint.=0A=0A--------=0AL.V.Williams=0AXCG, XCMR, ATP=0AUSHPA , EAA, AMA, EPP=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://foru =============== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs From: Gardiner Mason Post a picture Gerry. I am about to try one myself. Gardiner Sent from my iPad On Feb 16, 2014, at 3:29 PM, Gerry Holland wrote: > > Gentlemen Hi. > I have just had made new aluminium front cowling 'rose bowl'. > The lower half was manufactured with no cut outs or holes. > Do I need to cut out the one or two holes I've observed on other aircraft such as J3's or can I just leave as complete? > The A65 install has so much air passing through the engine compartment it hardly seems necessary. > Thanks > Gerry > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:49 PM PST US From: Subject: Pietenpol-List: ham radio Freqs Are there any Ham freqs where piet-s hang out, time,freq??? tnx w8zrz ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:02 PM PST US From: jim hyde Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ham radio Freqs On Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:10 PM, "don.h@wcoil.com" wrote: Are there any Ham freqs where piet-s hang out, time,freq??? tnx w8zrz ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:38 PM PST US From: jim hyde Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ham radio Freqs only ham I know is me k5dhe 3870 and 3922- cont traders net and texas tra ders net=0A=0Ajim=0A=0A=0A=0AOn , jim hyde wrote:=0A =0A =0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, February 16, 2014 5:10 PM, "don.h@wcoil.com" wrote:=0A =0AAre there any Ham freqs where piet-s hang out, time,f ======================= ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang From: "nightmare" Bill; im building a steel tuber in south florida and also gave Barry and his buddies a visit. They have been modified a bit but still well worth a visit. Not many steel tube piets out there, the piet tube plans are lacking lots of valuable info and I think you would be crazy to not try and visit them. Its very obvious what is stock and what is not. Im sure your intelligent enough to decide on your own how or if you want to modify your plane. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418832#418832 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:26 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs From: "taildrags" Gerry; On most photos of J-3s that I've seen, there is a sort of horizontal slot just below the hole for the prop hub and then a round hole below that, and then the air filter. I have no idea what the horizontal slot is for but I believe the hole below it leads into the heat muff for carb heat since I believe it has a mesh screen in the opening. Neither of those openings should have anything to do with cooling the engine or oil sump. However, the J-3 does not have a pressure cowl so there is cooling air entering through the eyebrows, sweeping down over the cylinders, the out the bottom of the cowling after going around the oil sump and carb. I think you can dispense with any additional cutouts. Test fly it and watch the oil and cylinder head temps and then decide if you need any additional openings. It's easier to cut new ones than to patch ones that you don't need. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418834#418834 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang From: Steven Dortch Please provide some details on what the Carrolton group did. I remember them making "BIG Piets." Did they come out heavy? Poor flying? can't do short field landings? Blue Skies Steve D On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:32 PM, nightmare wrote: > pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com> > > Bill; im building a steel tuber in south florida and also gave Barry and > his buddies a visit. They have been modified a bit but still well worth a > visit. Not many steel tube piets out there, the piet tube plans are lacking > lots of valuable info and I think you would be crazy to not try and visit > them. Its very obvious what is stock and what is not. Im sure your > intelligent enough to decide on your own how or if you want to modify your > plane. > > -------- > Paul Donahue > Started 8-3-12 > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418832#418832 > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:59 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Eyebrow cowlings From: Steven Dortch Gentlemen and Oscar, How close does the cowling need to be to the back of the cylenders to be effective? should they just almost rub? Blue Skies, STeve D ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:44 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs From: "Don Emch" The idea there is to help cool the crankcase. I went ahead and put one in mine. Kind of a horizontal oval. For all it takes to do it, it's probably a good idea to go ahead and do it now. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418837#418837 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang From: "nightmare" Best to get info from the source. But can give some info... Corvair engines, steel tube fuselage is about 25.5 inches wide. The tail feathers are steel. Elevators are connected via a common leading edge. Push pull rod to one elevator. Only need one since interconnected. Horizontal stab is adjustable. Not easily adjustable, but nice idea that enables adjustment After first flights and notice excess elevator displacement. Wing and nose tank on all of them. Barry did say they are a bit tail heavy and thinks wood tail feathers are lighter. Think he may be right. Even with changes, very nicely built aircraft. Plenty of helpful ideas and inspiration for a steel tube builder. Grateful they took the time to show me their Piets. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418840#418840 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang From: "nightmare" Also. Pretty sure the "big piet" name comes from them building 5 or 6 piets at one time (big piet build) and not that they are big piets. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418841#418841 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:11 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Eyebrow cowlings From: "taildrags" Steve; The aft parts of the cooling eyebrows (both the ones that I replaced and the new ones) touch the back sides of the cooling fins on the heads and cylinders. On my old ones, there were little grooves worn into the aluminum of the eyebrows... that's how close they were. The ram air that comes shooting in the front needs to change from velocity pressure to static pressure to get it to go down through the fins and around the cylinders and it will escape out the back through any low-resistance openings it can find. Try to keep the baffles close to the finned surfaces. In the case of supersonic airplanes like the Piet, this effect is exaggerated and cooling effects are especially important to control as the airplane approaches Mach 1 and shock waves form ahead of the cooling eyebrows. All kidding aside, down in hot Texas, you need to direct all the cooling air around the finned surfaces and don't let it shoot past them at the rear of the engine. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418844#418844 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:39 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Scouting for a new home From: "taildrags" Worked on the airplane a little more today, and it should only take one more long work session before it's ready to add fuel and fire it up. Pulled all the plugs, cleaned and gapped, installed the new cooling eyebrows, went over all the hardware, clevises, safety wiring, and other security items and all are complete. I just need to re-torque and safety the prop bolts, service the air filter, pull the carb float bowl for inspection (airplane has sat for a year), install the engine cowlings, and I think we're ready to go try propping it off. Everything else on my list is cosmetic, so there are very few excuses left. Jeff (Boatright)'s flying and landing video was a tremendous inspiration to get me ready for flight again, and just hearing the pocketa-pocketa-pocketa idle of the engine in the video was enough to make me want to hear mine do that again. After I light off the engine I plan to make some long taxi runs to test the ground handling with the new tailwheel, warm up the oil, drain and change it, and then put the airplane away. The following day will be return to flight, God willing, and the airplane will be in Phase 1 flight testing for 5 hours in and around the Medford Class Delta airspace. It's just a little over 90 days till the West Coast Piet Fly-In, so I've got to get busy... -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418848#418848 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang From: "tools" Hey Bill, I'm having a bunch of folks over next weekend up near Chatt TN (20 to 24 Feb). Among them are a couple of guys who are building steel tube fuse Piets. You're welcome to come up, stay a couple days or whatever. I'll be working on getting my wood fuse Piet assembled (been down for repairs). We're planning on making some control horns, so if you've made yours, we could use the help! Bunch of other shop related stuff going on as well. Maybe some of the Carrollton gang might head up too, all are welcome. Ping me back channel if you're interested and need details! Mike Danford, 423 580 1383 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418849#418849 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:47 PM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Scouting for a new home Oscar, Following your progress is really informative to me. I am looking forward to see you and Scout at the West Coast FLYIN. Keep the good news coming. Thanks, Ray Krause SkyScout abuilding... Sent from my iPad > On Feb 16, 2014, at 9:53 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > Worked on the airplane a little more today, and it should only take one more long work session before it's ready to add fuel and fire it up. Pulled all the plugs, cleaned and gapped, installed the new cooling eyebrows, went over all the hardware, clevises, safety wiring, and other security items and all are complete. I just need to re-torque and safety the prop bolts, service the air filter, pull the carb float bowl for inspection (airplane has sat for a year), install the engine cowlings, and I think we're ready to go try propping it off. Everything else on my list is cosmetic, so there are very few excuses left. > > Jeff (Boatright)'s flying and landing video was a tremendous inspiration to get me ready for flight again, and just hearing the pocketa-pocketa-pocketa idle of the engine in the video was enough to make me want to hear mine do that again. After I light off the engine I plan to make some long taxi runs to test the ground handling with the new tailwheel, warm up the oil, drain and change it, and then put the airplane away. The following day will be return to flight, God willing, and the airplane will be in Phase 1 flight testing for 5 hours in and around the Medford Class Delta airspace. > > It's just a little over 90 days till the West Coast Piet Fly-In, so I've got to get busy... > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418848#418848 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.