Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:06 AM - Re: Re: Scouting for a new home (Boatright, Jeffrey)
2. 04:52 AM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (womenfly2)
3. 05:15 AM - Re: Re: Eyebrow cowlings (Jack Phillips)
4. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs (Yahoo! Account Service)
5. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (Barry Davis)
6. 09:48 AM - Re: You want to see some real talent? (VanDy)
7. 11:12 AM - Rose Bowl (Gerry Holland)
8. 11:41 AM - Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (Bill R)
9. 11:56 AM - Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (Bill R)
10. 01:41 PM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (DonkDoug)
11. 01:51 PM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (taildrags)
12. 04:08 PM - Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (tools)
13. 04:31 PM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (DonkDoug)
14. 07:22 PM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (taildrags)
15. 07:48 PM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (taildrags)
16. 09:09 PM - Re: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (glenschweizer@yahoo.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Scouting for a new home |
Hi Oscar,
Glad the videos inspired you. Other people's videos inspire me, too.
Jeff
>
>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison |
jarheadpilot82 wrote:
> Edited: I would be curious to know how aluminum tubing compares with 1018 steel.
You need to specify what "Alloy" of aluminum the tube is to do a comparison to
1018 steel.
A "pop" riveted gusset plate aluminum tube Pietenpol fuselage could be done ....
would be an interesting exercise. Similar to an Airdrome plane construction.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418860#418860
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| Subject: | Re: Eyebrow cowlings |
And be sure you have the inter-cylinder baffles in places to direct the
airflow into the cooling fins rather than just escaping between the
cylinders. Harry Fenton shows how to build the baffles on his website:
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 11:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Eyebrow cowlings
Steve;
The aft parts of the cooling eyebrows (both the ones that I replaced and the
new ones) touch the back sides of the cooling fins on the heads and
cylinders. On my old ones, there were little grooves worn into the aluminum
of the eyebrows... that's how close they were. The ram air that comes
shooting in the front needs to change from velocity pressure to static
pressure to get it to go down through the fins and around the cylinders and
it will escape out the back through any low-resistance openings it can find.
Try to keep the baffles close to the finned surfaces.
In the case of supersonic airplanes like the Piet, this effect is
exaggerated and cooling effects are especially important to control as the
airplane approaches Mach 1 and shock waves form ahead of the cooling
eyebrows.
All kidding aside, down in hot Texas, you need to direct all the cooling air
around the finned surfaces and don't let it shoot past them at the rear of
the engine.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418844#418844
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs |
My Piet/Grega, or rather Doug's Piet still in my hangar till warm weather, has
the two holes. below the prop. One is the horizontal oval. Behind this opening
is a kind of double funnel, one side is hooked to a exhaust muff to push heat
to the carb. The other side could be used for cockpit heat. The bottom hole is
round and I believe it helps cool the crankcase like Don said.
I think my cowl is a re-used J-3 cowl.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
>From: Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com>
>Sent: Feb 16, 2014 9:01 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs
>
>
>The idea there is to help cool the crankcase. I went ahead and put one in mine.
Kind of a horizontal oval. For all it takes to do it, it's probably a good
idea to go ahead and do it now.
>
>Don Emch
>NX899DE
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418837#418837
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Carollton Ga. Gang |
Mike
I am trying to get Frank, Harold and Bruce to come up with me on Saturday.
Barry Davis
Big Piet Builders
NX973BP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 12:56 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang
Hey Bill,
I'm having a bunch of folks over next weekend up near Chatt TN (20 to 24
Feb). Among them are a couple of guys who are building steel tube fuse
Piets. You're welcome to come up, stay a couple days or whatever. I'll be
working on getting my wood fuse Piet assembled (been down for repairs).
We're planning on making some control horns, so if you've made yours, we
could use the help!
Bunch of other shop related stuff going on as well.
Maybe some of the Carrollton gang might head up too, all are welcome.
Ping me back channel if you're interested and need details!
Mike Danford, 423 580 1383
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418849#418849
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| Subject: | Re: You want to see some real talent? |
I'd never seen Mikes video before, thanks for sharing!
--------
A&P/IA
Recreational Pilot - working on Private
http://www.buckeye-aviation.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418884#418884
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Many thanks for the replies and advice regarding aluminium Rose Bowl.
Will update how it all works our.
Regards
Gerry
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Carollton Ga. Gang |
Jeff Boatright wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> I'm up in Decatur, fly my Piet out of Lenora (2GA9), just south of Snellville.
Happy to give you a ride some morning or evening.
>
> Jeff
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcinXNmvXX0
Hi Jeff
As it happens my son and I have watched your youtube videos several times over
the last few month"s and have even tried to find you via your n number.
If you would pm me your contact info I would love to set up a time to come out
and see your Pietenpol.
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418892#418892
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| Subject: | Re: Carollton Ga. Gang |
tools wrote:
> Hey Bill,
>
> I'm having a bunch of folks over next weekend up near Chatt TN (20 to 24 Feb).
Among them are a couple of guys who are building steel tube fuse Piets. You're
welcome to come up, stay a couple days or whatever. I'll be working on getting
my wood fuse Piet assembled (been down for repairs). We're planning on
making some control horns, so if you've made yours, we could use the help!
>
> Bunch of other shop related stuff going on as well.
>
> Maybe some of the Carrollton gang might head up too, all are welcome.
>
> Ping me back channel if you're interested and need details!
>
> Mike Danford, 423 580 1383
Hey Mike
That is a mighty generous offer, unfortunately I have commitments this weekend.
I would like rain check on that one though.
I will try to give you a ring next week.
Thanks
Bill
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418894#418894
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| Subject: | Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison |
Hey Guys,
I have been lurking on here for several years and have really enjoyed most of the
discussions, technical talk, tall-tales and so on. I never felt like I had
much to contribute so stayed quite until now.
I think what will help you compare different sizes of aluminum tubing to steel
tubing (and solid wood members of various species for that matter) in compression
and tension is a spreadsheet developed by Neal Willford that is posted on
EAA's website. I have used it for years to get "ball park" numbers for some of
my projects. I will attempt to attach the excel file but if it does not make
the trip it is easy enough to find on EAA's website search function.
Thanks,
Doug Wright
Stillwater, OK
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418904#418904
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| Subject: | Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison |
Doug;
As they say, "you da man!" I went to the EAA website and searched for articles
that Neal has authored and there among them is an Excel spreadsheet that calculates
the strength of steel, aluminum, and wood. I'll download it and see what
it does!
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418905#418905
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| Subject: | Re: Carollton Ga. Gang |
Oh, if you want rain, come friday! It's an annual event, so no worries. Trying
to add "fly in" as we go along. Also welcome to come see NX2RN anytime. Should
be back in the air soon, ride available then.
Also welcome to come use any shop stuff about any time.
We'll be in full swing Thurs and Fri as well.
As for Barry and the gang, great! Look forward to seeing you then! Is anyone
flying? If so, there are a couple of fields. Wilson field is on the sectional
and is available. Not on the sectional is another field about 3 miles due west
and is also available. I can get you phone numbers if you want to talk to
the field owners first, but I have already talked to them.
I've been out of town the last couple of weeks, I'll check on my field tomorrow
if there's a possibility.
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418907#418907
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| Subject: | Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison |
Oscar,
It sounds like you found it. That spreadsheet is real handy. For example, you
can plug in the modulus of elasticity for the wood species one might be using
to determine that member's equivalent size in spruce.
Neal wrote a bunch of these spreadsheets a number of years ago to perform various
functions - some structural, some for aerodynamics, and so on.
Hope this helps with what you are doing,
Doug Wright
Stillwater, OK
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418908#418908
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| Subject: | Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison |
WF2 wrote-
>A "pop" riveted gusset plate aluminum tube Pietenpol fuselage
>could be done .... would be an interesting exercise. Similar to
>an Airdrome plane construction
Well, see, there's nothing new under the sun! Roger Mann's Ultra-Piet "RagWing"
is exactly that, and it's been around a good while. Legal ultralight, performance
and dimensions actually quite close to the real Air Camper except that
the Ultra-Piet is single place (by Part 103 definition). Most fly with air-cooled
2-strokes. Plenty have been built and flown.
http://rogermann.org/ragwing/designs/rw1/
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418922#418922
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison |
Okay, just doing some what-ifs, not directly related to Pietenpols and certainly
not intended to start a "let's build an aluminum Piet!" discussion. I'm studying
an ultralight design that is in the old Flying & Glider manuals from the
1930s, steel tube construction, and wondering what an aluminum tube equivalent
might be. The subject of my study is weight. As in, is there really a weight
advantage to using aluminum over steel?
I'll take just one example that I plugged in to the Excel spreadsheet to compare
one common steel tube size to aluminum. Although the old designs most likely
used mild steel, it's easy to compare 4130 to 6061 and get a rough approximation.
For a 5/8" steel tube that is called out as 22 ga., I've used .028" wall
thickness 4130 in an 18" length (perhaps a fuselage diagonal?) just for kicks.
The critical value is compression... the strength in tension is several times
greater than in compression. At any rate, to get an equivalent strength in
compression, a 5/8" aluminum tube must have a wall thickness of .065. The weight
difference between the two members is .07 lb... a 26% weight savings. If
I knew the weight of a basically complete steel-tube fuselage (Jake? Are you
out there? Have you weighed yours?)- I could guess at what the overall weight
savings might be for a fuselage. Probably only 3-4 lbs.-?
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418924#418924
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison |
Ragwing ultrapiet is wood,ply gussets fuse spars are ply Web with spruce caps
. ribs are 1/4 x1/4 spruce with ply gussets. Very much like a scout . Fun airplane.
Hard to get weight to legal. Ultralight with minimal panel, nice turtledeck,
spoked motorcycle wheels and brakes mine came in as a perfect example
of a fat Nevada ultralight and I loved it
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:21 PM, "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> WF2 wrote-
>
>> A "pop" riveted gusset plate aluminum tube Pietenpol fuselage
>> could be done .... would be an interesting exercise. Similar to
>> an Airdrome plane construction
>
> Well, see, there's nothing new under the sun! Roger Mann's Ultra-Piet "RagWing"
is exactly that, and it's been around a good while. Legal ultralight, performance
and dimensions actually quite close to the real Air Camper except that
the Ultra-Piet is single place (by Part 103 definition). Most fly with air-cooled
2-strokes. Plenty have been built and flown.
>
> http://rogermann.org/ragwing/designs/rw1/
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418922#418922
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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