---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/17/14: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:06 AM - Re: Re: Scouting for a new home (Boatright, Jeffrey) 2. 04:52 AM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (womenfly2) 3. 05:15 AM - Re: Re: Eyebrow cowlings (Jack Phillips) 4. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs (Yahoo! Account Service) 5. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (Barry Davis) 6. 09:48 AM - Re: You want to see some real talent? (VanDy) 7. 11:12 AM - Rose Bowl (Gerry Holland) 8. 11:41 AM - Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (Bill R) 9. 11:56 AM - Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (Bill R) 10. 01:41 PM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (DonkDoug) 11. 01:51 PM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (taildrags) 12. 04:08 PM - Re: Carollton Ga. Gang (tools) 13. 04:31 PM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (DonkDoug) 14. 07:22 PM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (taildrags) 15. 07:48 PM - Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (taildrags) 16. 09:09 PM - Re: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison (glenschweizer@yahoo.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:53 AM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Scouting for a new home Hi Oscar, Glad the videos inspired you. Other people's videos inspire me, too. Jeff > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:39 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison From: "womenfly2" jarheadpilot82 wrote: > Edited: I would be curious to know how aluminum tubing compares with 1018 steel. You need to specify what "Alloy" of aluminum the tube is to do a comparison to 1018 steel. A "pop" riveted gusset plate aluminum tube Pietenpol fuselage could be done .... would be an interesting exercise. Similar to an Airdrome plane construction. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418860#418860 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:19 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Eyebrow cowlings And be sure you have the inter-cylinder baffles in places to direct the airflow into the cooling fins rather than just escaping between the cylinders. Harry Fenton shows how to build the baffles on his website: http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/fenton.htm Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 11:22 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Eyebrow cowlings Steve; The aft parts of the cooling eyebrows (both the ones that I replaced and the new ones) touch the back sides of the cooling fins on the heads and cylinders. On my old ones, there were little grooves worn into the aluminum of the eyebrows... that's how close they were. The ram air that comes shooting in the front needs to change from velocity pressure to static pressure to get it to go down through the fins and around the cylinders and it will escape out the back through any low-resistance openings it can find. Try to keep the baffles close to the finned surfaces. In the case of supersonic airplanes like the Piet, this effect is exaggerated and cooling effects are especially important to control as the airplane approaches Mach 1 and shock waves form ahead of the cooling eyebrows. All kidding aside, down in hot Texas, you need to direct all the cooling air around the finned surfaces and don't let it shoot past them at the rear of the engine. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418844#418844 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:45 AM PST US From: Yahoo! Account Service Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs My Piet/Grega, or rather Doug's Piet still in my hangar till warm weather, has the two holes. below the prop. One is the horizontal oval. Behind this opening is a kind of double funnel, one side is hooked to a exhaust muff to push heat to the carb. The other side could be used for cockpit heat. The bottom hole is round and I believe it helps cool the crankcase like Don said. I think my cowl is a re-used J-3 cowl. Skip -----Original Message----- >From: Don Emch >Sent: Feb 16, 2014 9:01 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A65 Rose Bowl cut outs > > >The idea there is to help cool the crankcase. I went ahead and put one in mine. Kind of a horizontal oval. For all it takes to do it, it's probably a good idea to go ahead and do it now. > >Don Emch >NX899DE > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418837#418837 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:19 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang Mike I am trying to get Frank, Harold and Bruce to come up with me on Saturday. Barry Davis Big Piet Builders NX973BP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tools Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 12:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang Hey Bill, I'm having a bunch of folks over next weekend up near Chatt TN (20 to 24 Feb). Among them are a couple of guys who are building steel tube fuse Piets. You're welcome to come up, stay a couple days or whatever. I'll be working on getting my wood fuse Piet assembled (been down for repairs). We're planning on making some control horns, so if you've made yours, we could use the help! Bunch of other shop related stuff going on as well. Maybe some of the Carrollton gang might head up too, all are welcome. Ping me back channel if you're interested and need details! Mike Danford, 423 580 1383 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418849#418849 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:49 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: You want to see some real talent? From: "VanDy" I'd never seen Mikes video before, thanks for sharing! -------- A&P/IA Recreational Pilot - working on Private http://www.buckeye-aviation.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418884#418884 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:12:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rose Bowl From: Gerry Holland Many thanks for the replies and advice regarding aluminium Rose Bowl. Will update how it all works our. Regards Gerry ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:41:08 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang From: "Bill R" Jeff Boatright wrote: > Hi Bill, > > I'm up in Decatur, fly my Piet out of Lenora (2GA9), just south of Snellville. Happy to give you a ride some morning or evening. > > Jeff > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcinXNmvXX0 Hi Jeff As it happens my son and I have watched your youtube videos several times over the last few month"s and have even tried to find you via your n number. If you would pm me your contact info I would love to set up a time to come out and see your Pietenpol. Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418892#418892 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:56:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang From: "Bill R" tools wrote: > Hey Bill, > > I'm having a bunch of folks over next weekend up near Chatt TN (20 to 24 Feb). Among them are a couple of guys who are building steel tube fuse Piets. You're welcome to come up, stay a couple days or whatever. I'll be working on getting my wood fuse Piet assembled (been down for repairs). We're planning on making some control horns, so if you've made yours, we could use the help! > > Bunch of other shop related stuff going on as well. > > Maybe some of the Carrollton gang might head up too, all are welcome. > > Ping me back channel if you're interested and need details! > > Mike Danford, 423 580 1383 Hey Mike That is a mighty generous offer, unfortunately I have commitments this weekend. I would like rain check on that one though. I will try to give you a ring next week. Thanks Bill Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418894#418894 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison From: "DonkDoug" Hey Guys, I have been lurking on here for several years and have really enjoyed most of the discussions, technical talk, tall-tales and so on. I never felt like I had much to contribute so stayed quite until now. I think what will help you compare different sizes of aluminum tubing to steel tubing (and solid wood members of various species for that matter) in compression and tension is a spreadsheet developed by Neal Willford that is posted on EAA's website. I have used it for years to get "ball park" numbers for some of my projects. I will attempt to attach the excel file but if it does not make the trip it is easy enough to find on EAA's website search function. Thanks, Doug Wright Stillwater, OK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418904#418904 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:49 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison From: "taildrags" Doug; As they say, "you da man!" I went to the EAA website and searched for articles that Neal has authored and there among them is an Excel spreadsheet that calculates the strength of steel, aluminum, and wood. I'll download it and see what it does! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418905#418905 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:44 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Carollton Ga. Gang From: "tools" Oh, if you want rain, come friday! It's an annual event, so no worries. Trying to add "fly in" as we go along. Also welcome to come see NX2RN anytime. Should be back in the air soon, ride available then. Also welcome to come use any shop stuff about any time. We'll be in full swing Thurs and Fri as well. As for Barry and the gang, great! Look forward to seeing you then! Is anyone flying? If so, there are a couple of fields. Wilson field is on the sectional and is available. Not on the sectional is another field about 3 miles due west and is also available. I can get you phone numbers if you want to talk to the field owners first, but I have already talked to them. I've been out of town the last couple of weeks, I'll check on my field tomorrow if there's a possibility. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418907#418907 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:00 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison From: "DonkDoug" Oscar, It sounds like you found it. That spreadsheet is real handy. For example, you can plug in the modulus of elasticity for the wood species one might be using to determine that member's equivalent size in spruce. Neal wrote a bunch of these spreadsheets a number of years ago to perform various functions - some structural, some for aerodynamics, and so on. Hope this helps with what you are doing, Doug Wright Stillwater, OK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418908#418908 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:37 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison From: "taildrags" WF2 wrote- >A "pop" riveted gusset plate aluminum tube Pietenpol fuselage >could be done .... would be an interesting exercise. Similar to >an Airdrome plane construction Well, see, there's nothing new under the sun! Roger Mann's Ultra-Piet "RagWing" is exactly that, and it's been around a good while. Legal ultralight, performance and dimensions actually quite close to the real Air Camper except that the Ultra-Piet is single place (by Part 103 definition). Most fly with air-cooled 2-strokes. Plenty have been built and flown. http://rogermann.org/ragwing/designs/rw1/ -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418922#418922 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:15 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison From: "taildrags" Okay, just doing some what-ifs, not directly related to Pietenpols and certainly not intended to start a "let's build an aluminum Piet!" discussion. I'm studying an ultralight design that is in the old Flying & Glider manuals from the 1930s, steel tube construction, and wondering what an aluminum tube equivalent might be. The subject of my study is weight. As in, is there really a weight advantage to using aluminum over steel? I'll take just one example that I plugged in to the Excel spreadsheet to compare one common steel tube size to aluminum. Although the old designs most likely used mild steel, it's easy to compare 4130 to 6061 and get a rough approximation. For a 5/8" steel tube that is called out as 22 ga., I've used .028" wall thickness 4130 in an 18" length (perhaps a fuselage diagonal?) just for kicks. The critical value is compression... the strength in tension is several times greater than in compression. At any rate, to get an equivalent strength in compression, a 5/8" aluminum tube must have a wall thickness of .065. The weight difference between the two members is .07 lb... a 26% weight savings. If I knew the weight of a basically complete steel-tube fuselage (Jake? Are you out there? Have you weighed yours?)- I could guess at what the overall weight savings might be for a fuselage. Probably only 3-4 lbs.-? -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418924#418924 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:58 PM PST US From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison Ragwing ultrapiet is wood,ply gussets fuse spars are ply Web with spruce caps . ribs are 1/4 x1/4 spruce with ply gussets. Very much like a scout . Fun airplane. Hard to get weight to legal. Ultralight with minimal panel, nice turtledeck, spoked motorcycle wheels and brakes mine came in as a perfect example of a fat Nevada ultralight and I loved it Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:21 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > WF2 wrote- > >> A "pop" riveted gusset plate aluminum tube Pietenpol fuselage >> could be done .... would be an interesting exercise. Similar to >> an Airdrome plane construction > > Well, see, there's nothing new under the sun! Roger Mann's Ultra-Piet "RagWing" is exactly that, and it's been around a good while. Legal ultralight, performance and dimensions actually quite close to the real Air Camper except that the Ultra-Piet is single place (by Part 103 definition). Most fly with air-cooled 2-strokes. Plenty have been built and flown. > > http://rogermann.org/ragwing/designs/rw1/ > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418922#418922 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.