Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:09 AM - Re: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha (danhelsper@aol.com)
2. 04:47 AM - Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha (tools)
3. 05:32 AM - Re: safety wire (shad bell)
4. 05:45 AM - Re: safety wire (john francis)
5. 05:50 AM - Re: Re: safety wire (Gary Boothe)
6. 05:53 AM - Re: safety wire (Jack Phillips)
7. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha (airlion2@gmail.com)
8. 06:01 AM - Re: safety wire (john francis)
9. 06:44 AM - Buy Samsung Note 3 $450/BlackBerry Porsche =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=999982?=/Sony PS4 (wabbss)
10. 08:01 AM - New E-mail address (Charles N. Campbell)
11. 09:31 AM - Vasek's Pietenpol project (Vasek)
12. 09:52 AM - Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project (larharris2 Harris)
13. 10:15 AM - Re: safety wire (taildrags)
14. 11:05 AM - Re: Re: safety wire (Ken Bickers)
15. 12:21 PM - VW engines in Pietenpols (Bill Church)
16. 12:30 PM - Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project (Jack Phillips)
17. 01:16 PM - Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project (Vasek)
18. 01:57 PM - Re: New E-mail address (jarheadpilot82)
19. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: safety wire (shad bell)
20. 03:23 PM - Newsletter (Gary Boothe)
21. 03:28 PM - Re: Newsletter (Boatright, Jeffrey)
22. 03:29 PM - Re: Newsletter (Jack Phillips)
23. 03:37 PM - : Newsletter (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
24. 04:03 PM - Re: Newsletter (airlion2@gmail.com)
25. 04:16 PM - corvair acceleration (nightmare)
26. 04:28 PM - Re: corvair acceleration (taildrags)
27. 05:00 PM - Re: Re: corvair acceleration (Boatright, Jeffrey)
28. 05:34 PM - Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project (aviken)
29. 05:48 PM - Re: corvair acceleration (shad bell)
30. 05:53 PM - Re: safety wire (Braniff1966)
31. 07:32 PM - fish scales (taildrags)
32. 09:04 PM - Re: fish scales (Brian Kenney)
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Subject: | Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", |
Cha
Tools,
Any photos from the event?
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: tools <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, Feb 23, 2014 7:52 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff",
Cha
You are VERY welcome, it was my pleasure. I do hope to see you again next
year.
There should be a lot more Piet mentors there next year. Speaking of, you
would
be a good mentor as you now have a feel for how things run and what it's li
ke.
Thanks for coming!
Tools
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419206#419206
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Subject: | Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", Cha |
I didn't take a single one! However, there are some posted in the "events" section of www.owwm.org, in a thread about "Toolstock".
More will show up. I'll also get sent some videos a buddy took and will post them
here when they show up.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419219#419219
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I almost always use .032 at work unless something else is called out. Prop bolts,
and turnbuckles are about the onlt thing I can think you need .041 on a Piet.
Most electrical connections (cannon plugs), or small philister head screws
(6-32, 8-32) use .021, or .025.
Shad
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 2/23/14, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: safety wire
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Date: Sunday, February 23, 2014, 11:50 PM
--> Pietenpol-List message posted
by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Fortunately, the manufacturer of NX308MB specified .020.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 8:24 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: safety wire
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
By the way, and since the list is fairly quiet right now,
I'll take a minute
to post this. The words "safety wire" should be
changed to something else.
Every time I have to safety something, I end up with more
cuts than a
government sequester and "safety wire" is quite unsafe when
it comes to its
tendency to draw blood. The two worst offenders are
the .041 and the .020.
The medium-sized wire is fairly well behaved because you can
bend it easily
and tease it into place with your fingers, but the .041 is a
beast to deal
with unless you use pliers and the small stuff is like a
tiny silver viper,
just waiting to get you with its little fang. And just
try working it in a
blind area without getting bitten.
The other thing about safety wire is that I waste a lot of
it by re-doing
the safetying. I can never remember the right way to
safety pairs of things
and I have to start over, or I cut the piece of wire just a
little too short
and have to start over. I've also noticed that I get
the dirty eye from
A&Ps when I use any of the smaller sizes of wire.
They want everything done
in .041 unless the hole in the fastener simply will not pass
that size of
wire, and it's crazy. Why do we even have anything but
.041 then? And why
try fishing it through all the little screws and jets and
things on a
Stromberg carb?
My guess is that I could take my big old single-speed
Craftsman 1/2" drill
and chuck a fly cutter in it, then stake it down with a
piece of .041 safety
wire and try to bore a hole in some kind of gnarly material
with the fly
cutter off-axis, and that thing could bite and claw and try
to torque itself
like a fork in spaghetti and a single strand of .041 could
hold it. Why in
heaven's name we need to put that heavy safety wire on
little fasteners and
turnbuckles I will never know.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419209#419209
Email Forum -
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
List Contribution Web Site -
-Matt
Dralle, List Admin.
Message 4
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What size are you using to safety wire turnbuckles?
John
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419221#419221
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.020
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john francis
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 5:46 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: safety wire
--> <Mrkringles@msn.com>
What size are you using to safety wire turnbuckles?
John
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419221#419221
Message 6
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Oscar,
Are you using a safety wire tool to twist the wires, or are you trying to do
it by hand? A safety wire tool makes it pretty easy (except for
turnbuckles, which are just a pain in the butt).
You can get a decent (Chinese) safety wire tool for $20 or less. A good one
will run about $60.
Just remember to always put the wire on in such a way that the wire is
forced to get tighter for the nut or bolt to loosen.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 11:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: safety wire
By the way, and since the list is fairly quiet right now, I'll take a minute
to post this. The words "safety wire" should be changed to something else.
Every time I have to safety something, I end up with more cuts than a
government sequester and "safety wire" is quite unsafe when it comes to its
tendency to draw blood. The two worst offenders are the .041 and the .020.
The medium-sized wire is fairly well behaved because you can bend it easily
and tease it into place with your fingers, but the .041 is a beast to deal
with unless you use pliers and the small stuff is like a tiny silver viper,
just waiting to get you with its little fang. And just try working it in a
blind area without getting bitten.
The other thing about safety wire is that I waste a lot of it by re-doing
the safetying. I can never remember the right way to safety pairs of things
and I have to start over, or I cut the piece of wire just a little too short
and have to start over. I've also noticed that I get the dirty eye from
A&Ps when I use any of the smaller sizes of wire. They want everything done
in .041 unless the hole in the fastener simply will not pass that size of
wire, and it's crazy. Why do we even have anything but .041 then? And why
try fishing it through all the little screws and jets and things on a
Stromberg carb?
My guess is that I could take my big old single-speed Craftsman 1/2" drill
and chuck a fly cutter in it, then stake it down with a piece of .041 safety
wire and try to bore a hole in some kind of gnarly material with the fly
cutter off-axis, and that thing could bite and claw and try to torque itself
like a fork in spaghetti and a single strand of .041 could hold it. Why in
heaven's name we need to put that heavy safety wire on little fasteners and
turnbuckles I will never know.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419209#419209
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Feb 20 to 24, hangar gathering, doing "stuff", |
Cha
Thanks for a. Very good time Mike and my hats off to Kellie and. Judy. They did
a .fantastic job of feeding everyone. I plan on coming back next year. Gardiner
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 23, 2014, at 8:49 AM, "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> THANKS for coming! We actually had a pretty good showing of Pieters whom I thought
ALL integrated well with the old woodworking machines crowd.
>
> The weekend (still underway, just had a newcomer show a few minutes ago) was
fantastically productive. The Carrollton gang pledged to come early and stay
next year to help (BADLY needed) mentor the Piet crowd with their projects.
>
> Everyone pitched in a lot to keep things moving. However, it was Kellie and
Judy who, for no other than reason being saints, brunted the VAST majority of
responsibility for folks being fed WELL and timely. My philosophy is let grown
men fend for themselves... probably flawed thinking anyway! Thanks to them!
>
> Hope to see more folks next year. There's some pics in the "events" section
of OWWM.ORG for folks who want to visit vicariously.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tools
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419175#419175
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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|
I did a lot of safety wiring while working on aircraft in the Navy. For a while
we were told to not use our pliers because they felt it may nick and weaken
the wire. A few months later it was okay to once again use the safety wire pliers.
Today I do my safety wiring by hand unless it is a long run.
Thanks
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419225#419225
Message 9
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Subject: | Buy Samsung Note 3 $450/BlackBerry Porsche =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=999982?=/Sony |
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Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419228#419228
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Subject: | New E-mail address |
Just want the list to know that my outlook E-mail program fouled up and the
messages were not being shown -- just the addresses. So, I changed to
gmail. I didn't really like the outlook any way. So, my new address is:
charlescampbell1924@gmail.com
Chuck
Message 11
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Subject: | Vasek's Pietenpol project |
Hello,
Recently I decided to build a Pietenpol, but before I start, I would like to ask
you and discuss the possibilities I have. I am in the Czech Republic (central
europe).
I am a young amateur aircraft technician, pilot, producer of historic aircraft
propellers and still a student. But mainly, I am a big fan of aviation.
At the moment I have an engine (VW 2500 85hp) and metal-tube construction of the
fuselage + tail surfaces available. My plan is to build a beautiful airplane,
which will look very similar to the original aircraft from twenties/thirties.
My friend is a skilled aircraft builder and constructor, who guaranties me that
the aircraft will be safe, will fly and will provide me all information concerning
the construction.
The engine I propose is available for a quite fair price, so I would like to use
it. I think that 85hp would be enough? I also have 150cm (60") wooden prop,
which might be a bit small, but later I could exchange it. The engine doesn't
need any reduction drive.
I am light weight, the aircraft will have no electric starter. -10kg
What I am also planning to do is to choose a better modern wing profile. Originaly
I thought that Clark Y would be the best option, but also ribblet GA30U-613.5
was recommended to me.
Could I ask you for help, comments or advices, please?
Thank you :)
Vaclav
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419246#419246
Message 12
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|
Subject: | Vasek's Pietenpol project |
Vaclav=2C welcome. You will enjoy building the Pietenpol.
Advice: DO NOT redesign the wing. Bernard Pietenpol designed the best win
g for this airplane. In the past=2C changes have made performance worse.
DO NOT use VW engine. RPM must be too high to get HP. Propeller will be too
small. Bad performance on takeoff=2C or bad performance while in the air.
Follow the plans design as well as you can and you will build a very good p
lane.
Lorenzo
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vasek's Pietenpol project
> From: bigon2@seznam.cz
> Date: Mon=2C 24 Feb 2014 09:31:38 -0800
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Hello=2C
>
> Recently I decided to build a Pietenpol=2C but before I start=2C I would
like to ask you and discuss the possibilities I have. I am in the Czech Rep
ublic (central europe).
>
> I am a young amateur aircraft technician=2C pilot=2C producer of historic
aircraft propellers and still a student. But mainly=2C I am a big fan of a
viation.
>
> At the moment I have an engine (VW 2500 85hp) and metal-tube construction
of the fuselage + tail surfaces available. My plan is to build a beautiful
airplane=2C which will look very similar to the original aircraft from twe
nties/thirties. My friend is a skilled aircraft builder and constructor=2C
who guaranties me that the aircraft will be safe=2C will fly and will provi
de me all information concerning the construction.
>
> The engine I propose is available for a quite fair price=2C so I would li
ke to use it. I think that 85hp would be enough? I also have 150cm (60") wo
oden prop=2C which might be a bit small=2C but later I could exchange it. T
he engine doesn't need any reduction drive.
>
> I am light weight=2C the aircraft will have no electric starter. -10kg
>
> What I am also planning to do is to choose a better modern wing profile.
Originaly I thought that Clark Y would be the best option=2C but also ribbl
et GA30U-613.5 was recommended to me.
>
> Could I ask you for help=2C comments or advices=2C please?
>
> Thank you :)
>
> Vaclav
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419246#419246
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 13
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John, Jack-
I certainly have a safety wire tool, yes. What I have found is that in many places
it's not real easy to spin the tool or even to get a proper grasp of the
wire, and of course it does you no good on turnbuckles. I mostly work the wire
by hand.
I was just sounding off a little because I had more than the usual amount of safetying
to do over the weekend and since I take baby aspirin as part of a blood
thinning regimen with the hypertension meds that I take, when I get a cut or
puncture it just makes a bit of a mess for awhile till I get the blood stopped.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419250#419250
Message 14
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Oscar, it is all in how you look at it. Once you get poked by safety wire,
you're better off doing lots more safetying. That way, you bleed just
once. Its the airplane equivalent of the all-you-can-eat buffet, Once
you've paid, by god you may as well get your money's worth -- no matter how
distasteful. Plus, it keeps all your safety wire color coordinated.
Cheers, Ken
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:15 AM, taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> John, Jack-
>
> I certainly have a safety wire tool, yes. What I have found is that in
> many places it's not real easy to spin the tool or even to get a proper
> grasp of the wire, and of course it does you no good on turnbuckles. I
> mostly work the wire by hand.
>
> I was just sounding off a little because I had more than the usual amount
> of safetying to do over the weekend and since I take baby aspirin as part
> of a blood thinning regimen with the hypertension meds that I take, when I
> get a cut or puncture it just makes a bit of a mess for awhile till I get
> the blood stopped.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419250#419250
>
>
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Subject: | VW engines in Pietenpols |
Recently there have been a couple of questions raised regarding the suitability
of VW engines in Pietenpol aircraft. Following is an article written by Pietenpol
builder Brian Kenney, and published in the BPA newsletter in 1996. Food
for thought.
Why a VW "Beetle" engine is not a good choice in a Pietenpol!
A Volkswagen "Bug" engine and its derivatives can produce enough horsepower
to fly a Pietenpol Air Camper. This alone is not enough of a reason to select
it as a Pietenpol engine. This is why:
The efficiency of a propeller (irrespective of how well it is designed)is a function
of the difference between the speed of the airplane and the speed of the
propeller wash. As the speed of the prop wash approaches the speed of the airplane,
the propeller approaches 100% of theoretical efficiency. At the same time,
thrust is caused by the propeller throwing air backwards. The faster the air,
the more the thrust. As the air speed approaches the speed of the airplane
the thrust goes to zero! At zero forward speed the thrust is maximum.
Put these two together and you see you can't have both at once. If the airplane
is not moving it has a lot of thrust, its efficiency is zero--it is doing no
work. As the airplane accelerates, the work (force times distance) and the efficiency
increases but the thrust decreases. In the case of a zero drag airplane
the airplane can accelerate until it reaches the thrust speed. There is zero
thrust and the propeller is approaching 100% efficiency.
Since most aircraft don't have zero drag (especially Pietenpols!), the airplane
comes to equilibrium somewhere between the two extremes. In the case of a Piet
with a large propeller and a slow turning engine, it is when the propeller is
at about 75% efficiency. You can not get better than that unless you clean up
the drag.
One variable you can adjust in a propeller, that has an effect on efficiency, is
the propeller diameter. The bigger the propeller the more air it can push backwards.
Therefore for a given propeller wash speed there is more thrust. Or
another way to look at it; for a required thrust, a bigger propeller needs less
wash speed. Therefore, if you remember about efficiency, there is more efficiency
because for a given thrust the velocity of the propeller wash is less.
Diameter also effects pitch. The larger the diameter, the less pitch you need (the
air can move slower). This effects the speed range of the aircraft. A large
propeller is like having a car with one low gear. A small propeller is like
having one high gear. If you have a slow airplane, a low gear can work fine, in
a fast airplane, it won't work because the engine will not produce any power
to get going (fast airplanes always have surplus horsepower).
The relationship for best propeller efficiency has been determined to be that the
propeller tip speed should be approximately 2.3 times the aircraft speed at
cruise. This you can't achieve. The diameter is too large or the rpm is too slow.
The bigger the diameter and the slower the engine the better. This is why
World War One aircraft perform so well (best propeller efficiency) on low power
- 1400 rpm engines turning 80" propellers.. Because our engine choices require
more revs to produce power, we have to compromise and lose efficiency. A Piet
with a 72" propeller, 2300 max. rpm and 65 horsepower is the typical compromise
with a Continental engine, but a Model "A" with 55 horsepower will do about
the same.
Unfortunately, to retain reliability, Model "A's" are usually built to produce
50 horsepower - or a bit less.
The Corvair engine is another compromise. They have a loss of efficiency due to
the small diameter propeller and accelerate poorly (due to the tall gear effect)
but produces good power.
So how does this relate to a VW engine?
In order to use a Volkswagen engine, it has to really rev (over 3300 rpm) to produce
sufficient power. This requires a small propeller to keep the tip speeds
down. It therefore has poor efficiency, or a too "tall" gear. If you pitch it
so you can take off, you won't fly faster than about 50 mph. If you pitch it
for cruise you will need a 6000 ft strip for take-off! The Corvair works because
it has surplus horsepower and can afford to waste some. The VW can't afford
the wasted horsepower.
The only approach with a VW that will work is the one that Pazmany used on his
PL-4. It uses a reduction belt. You then need a starter, and alternator, wiring
etc. You also need to think about cooling. At 60 mph there is not much ram
air. The Corvair requires a blower to get proper cooling. If you go this route
you have two projects instead of one! In Pazmany's configuration, the installation
probably weighs enough to allow an acceptable C.G. If not, this is your
second major problem. If you solve these problems, get used to an engine revving
like crazy, making much noise, as you cruise along.
Aircraft are a compromise. In a slow airplane you must use a large displacement,
slow turning engine if you want to keep it simple!
How about a diesel?
Someone in the 1970's put a Mercedes diesel in a Pietenpol. They brought it to
Oshkosh and created a lot of interest. The problem was it didn't have enough power.
The engine was replaced with something else and it flew OK. The limitation
with diesel engines is their power-to-weight ratio. They tend to be heavy
for the power they produce. The VW diesel engine is not that heavy, but I don't
think that it will produce enough power. You need about 50 hp to fly an Air
Camper - a bit less to fly the Sky Scout. You need this type of power at no more
than about 2500 rpm. This is why a VW beetle engine is no good - because you
have to rev it too high to obtain the needed power.
The other factors to consider in the over-all weight of a VW Diesel, is that you
will probably need a gear reduction unit, and if you use a gear reduction unit,
you will also need a starter. Water in the cooling system weighs 10 lbs. a
gallon etc. I am sure you will be over 250 lbs. when you are finished.
Fuel is also an issue. You could use Jet A, but how will you get that big hose
nozzle in your Pietenpol filler tube?
I am not trying to discourage anyone from developing a new airplane design. Just
think about it long and hard before you try it.
I think building an airplane it enough of a project. Building an engine is another
complete project. I know someone who has been putting an auto engine in a
flying airplane and is now in his fifth year in doing so!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419254#419254
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Subject: | Vasek's Pietenpol project |
Hi Vaclav,
Welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols!
You have already been given some good advice. Bernard Pietenpol himself
experimented with the Clark Y and found it did not perform as well as his
airfoil.
Recently a number of Pietenpols have been built with some of the Riblett
airfoils. Tests comparing the Riblett to the Pietenpol airfoil on two
nearly identical airplanes showed the Riblett offered no significant
advantage over the original Pietenpol airfoil. Besides, the original
airfoil, with its sharp leading edge and undercamber looks more like a
1920's airplane, and you have stated that one of your goals is to " build a
beautiful airplane, which will look very similar to the original aircraft
from twenties/thirties."
As for the engine, a number of people have tried Volkswagen engines in the
Pietenpol without success. The Pietenpol is a slow, draggy airplane and
needs an engine that puts out a lot of torque. As I'm writing this I see
that Bill Church has just responded with a good explanation of why a VW is
not a good engine choice for this airplane.
How about a LOM Mikro? Those should be relatively plentiful in the Czech
Republic.
Anyway, good luck to you. If possible, you should try to come to Brodhead
and Oshkosh some summer to see as many Pietenpols as possible. They are all
different, but each can teach you something.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vasek
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 12:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Vasek's Pietenpol project
Hello,
Recently I decided to build a Pietenpol, but before I start, I would like to
ask you and discuss the possibilities I have. I am in the Czech Republic
(central europe).
I am a young amateur aircraft technician, pilot, producer of historic
aircraft propellers and still a student. But mainly, I am a big fan of
aviation.
At the moment I have an engine (VW 2500 85hp) and metal-tube construction of
the fuselage + tail surfaces available. My plan is to build a beautiful
airplane, which will look very similar to the original aircraft from
twenties/thirties. My friend is a skilled aircraft builder and constructor,
who guaranties me that the aircraft will be safe, will fly and will provide
me all information concerning the construction.
The engine I propose is available for a quite fair price, so I would like to
use it. I think that 85hp would be enough? I also have 150cm (60") wooden
prop, which might be a bit small, but later I could exchange it. The engine
doesn't need any reduction drive.
I am light weight, the aircraft will have no electric starter. -10kg
What I am also planning to do is to choose a better modern wing profile.
Originaly I thought that Clark Y would be the best option, but also ribblet
GA30U-613.5 was recommended to me.
Could I ask you for help, comments or advices, please?
Thank you :)
Vaclav
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419246#419246
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Subject: | Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project |
Thank you for your advices Jack and Lorenzo.
I already changed my mind with the VW engine, after I got a clear explanation about
the torque, and after reading the Bill Church's article. It would result
in many complications which do not worth it..
There might be some Microns available here, I will see.
Another option is now another automobile engine with a reduction drive. I could
use a Suzuki engine. I will see. Now I can build the aircraft and watch for offers
in shops, used engines.
I will use the original Pietenpol airfoil.
As for the meeting in Brodhead/Oshkosh, you want me to try the first trans-atlantic
flight with a Pietenpol? :D
--------
My production of WW1 propellers, trophies and constructions:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419261#419261
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Subject: | Re: New E-mail address |
Chuck,
So 1924 is your address, right? :D
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419267#419267
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.041 for turnbuckles and prop bolts, always.- I did see a neat way to saf
ety turnbuckles that Boieng uses, but I can not remember the method.- I s
aw it in an AMT Skills competition I got to attend a few years back on a mo
ck-up of a control system.- It twists the wire like you would when safety
wiring a bolt.- I also saw an RV-4 that was saftied that way a couple ye
ars ago.- Any Boieng mechanics on the list??.=0A=0AShad=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Mon
day, February 24, 2014 2:12 PM, Ken Bickers <bickers.ken@gmail.com> wrote:
=0A =0AOscar, it is all in how you look at it. -Once you get poked by sa
fety wire, you're better off doing lots more safetying. -That way, you bl
eed just once. -Its the airplane equivalent of the all-you-can-eat buffet
, -Once you've paid, by god you may as well get your money's worth -- no
matter how distasteful. -Plus, it keeps all your safety wire color coordi
nated.-=0A=0ACheers, Ken=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:15 AM, tai
ldrags <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message poste
d by: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>=0A>=0A>John, Jack-=0A>=0A>I certa
inly have a safety wire tool, yes. -What I have found is that in many pla
ces it's not real easy to spin the tool or even to get a proper grasp of th
e wire, and of course it does you no good on turnbuckles. -I mostly work
the wire by hand.=0A>=0A>I was just sounding off a little because I had mor
e than the usual amount of safetying to do over the weekend and since I tak
e baby aspirin as part of a blood thinning regimen with the hypertension me
ds that I take, when I get a cut or puncture it just makes a bit of a mess
for awhile till I get the blood stopped.=0A>=0A>--------=0A>Oscar Zuniga=0A
>Medford, OR=0A>Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0A>A75 power=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>R
ead this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.ph
p?p=419250#419250=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>========
====0A>st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piete
npol-List=0A>============0A>http://forums.matronics.c
om=0A>============0A>le, List Admin.=0A>="_blank">h
ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>===========
=======================
Message 20
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As expected, it took a little longer to get over the Sierra's, and arrived today!...well
worth the wait!
Nicely done, John! Happy Birthday!
Gary
NX308MB
Sent from my iPhone
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Boy, I am really feeling left out down here in Georgia. I even showered
this week! And wore shoes on Sunday!
Maybe I forgot to re-up my membership? ;)
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
On 2/24/14 6:23 PM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>As expected, it took a little longer to get over the Sierra's, and
>arrived today!...well worth the wait!
>
>Nicely done, John! Happy Birthday!
>
>Gary
>NX308MB
>
________________________________
This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please contact
the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
original message (including attachments).
Message 22
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I still haven't received my newsletter. Who is this John Hofmann, anyway?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 6:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newsletter
As expected, it took a little longer to get over the Sierra's, and arrived
today!...well worth the wait!
Nicely done, John! Happy Birthday!
Gary
NX308MB
Sent from my iPhone
Message 23
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I still haven't received my newsletter. Who is this John Hofmann, anyway?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
Jack-I heard he is a former pencil salesman. He's friends with Jim Hyde I
think too. I don't think he flew for Braniff tho.....
Message 24
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Jeffery, I have not gotten my newsletter either. Gardiner
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:28 PM, "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright@emory.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Boy, I am really feeling left out down here in Georgia. I even showered
> this week! And wore shoes on Sunday!
>
> Maybe I forgot to re-up my membership? ;)
>
> --
>
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
> Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
>
>
>
>
>> On 2/24/14 6:23 PM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> As expected, it took a little longer to get over the Sierra's, and
>> arrived today!...well worth the wait!
>>
>> Nicely done, John! Happy Birthday!
>>
>> Gary
>> NX308MB
>>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
> prohibited.
>
> If you have received this message in error, please contact
> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
> original message (including attachments).
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | corvair acceleration |
Hey guys . Just curious. Will be using A corvair motor and after Reading the occasional
post that Talks of larger props better for draggy piets. And how the
corvair will accelerate slower with smaller prop. How does a 100 hp corvair really
perform against let's say a 85 he cont. ? Acceleration on takeoff and climb.
I know tough question to get hard evidence because no two piets built alike.
Maybe simple opinions on observations from the Brodhead fly in.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419279#419279
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Subject: | Re: corvair acceleration |
Paul;
I can only relate my own experience, and here it is. I left a fly-in on a nice
mild sunny afternoon in Texas, field elevation maybe 600'MSL. I was not at gross,
maybe half fuel, but two aboard. My airplane has a fresh A75. We were
just about leveled off at our cruise altitude of maybe 2500-3000' headed home
when out of nowhere from behind us comes "Axel" Purtee in his Corvair-powered
Piet, also two aboard, and formed up on our wing for photos. Mind you, we had
about a 10 minute head start and he had caught up with us. After the photos
he firewalled it and walked away. His "Fat Bottomed Girl" weighed more than my
airplane. The Corvair is a very competent engine for the Air Camper.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419280#419280
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Subject: | Re: corvair acceleration |
Fastest Piet I ever saw was Vandervoort's, which was powered by the
original-style, Bernard Pietenpol version of a Corvair version. Didn't
seem to have any problem getting Vandervoort up into the blue, either, and
he was not tiny.
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
On 2/24/14 7:27 PM, "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Paul;
>
>I can only relate my own experience, and here it is. I left a fly-in on
>a nice mild sunny afternoon in Texas, field elevation maybe 600'MSL. I
>was not at gross, maybe half fuel, but two aboard. My airplane has a
>fresh A75. We were just about leveled off at our cruise altitude of
>maybe 2500-3000' headed home when out of nowhere from behind us comes
>"Axel" Purtee in his Corvair-powered Piet, also two aboard, and formed up
>on our wing for photos. Mind you, we had about a 10 minute head start
>and he had caught up with us. After the photos he firewalled it and
>walked away. His "Fat Bottomed Girl" weighed more than my airplane. The
>Corvair is a very competent engine for the Air Camper.
>
>--------
>Oscar Zuniga
>Medford, OR
>Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>A75 power
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419280#419280
>
>
________________________________
This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
prohibited.
If you have received this message in error, please contact
the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
original message (including attachments).
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Subject: | Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project |
First Trans Atlantic flight in a Pietenpol, Ha Ha I know now that you will be
a true Pietenpol builder, because you need a good sense of humor. I hope you
have as much fun as I am in building this great little bird.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419286#419286
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Subject: | Re: corvair acceleration |
I am flying a corvair piet, but can not answer your question, our piet doesn't
have a rearview mirror. HA HA HA. Actually I can't answer because of the 2 Piets
I have flown, they were both Corvairs, and I have nothing to compare them
against. I do know I get 78-80MPH cruise at about 5.5 GPH, and just eye balling
etimate the corvair piets seem to outclimb the 65HP cont powered ships (when
watching from the grouond at Brodhead). I was offered a chance to fly Jack
Phillip's piet last year at Brodhead but due to the weather I had a narrow window
to get out ahead of the storms, hope I can get a rain check on that Jack.
I think a Continental makes a fine choice, as does the Ford or Corvair. In
reality if you build the engine yourself I think an "airworthy" mill of any of
the 3 Brands will be in the same ballpark moneywise, within $1000 or so. But
in defense of the Continentals, they are damn near bullet proof, no modification
necessary and designed to
pull an airplane which the Pietenpol is.
Just my $0.02
Shad
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2/24/14, nightmare <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com> wrote:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair acceleration
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, February 24, 2014, 7:16 PM
--> Pietenpol-List message posted
by: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
Hey guys . Just curious. Will be using A corvair motor and
after Reading the occasional post that Talks of larger props
better for draggy piets. And how the corvair will
accelerate slower with smaller prop. How does a 100 hp
corvair really perform against let's say a 85 he cont. ?
Acceleration on takeoff and climb.
I know tough question to get hard evidence
because no two piets built alike. Maybe simple
opinions on observations from the Brodhead fly in.
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
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Message 30
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my plans have nothing about safety wire. my ac 43-13 is full of data on when and
how to use it. I never waste time thinking about stuff that has already been
decided by very smart people. its all simple to me just do what the book says
and don't waste valuable time thinking. at 70 I have learned that time is short...the
best part about building a piet is that its a proven design. just follow
the plans, use the wood recommended in the AC, same for hardware, fabric
and paint. I will admit that I spent about 30 min deciding on the best glue for
me. I will assure any builder that makes changes will fuck up a very good design.
one thing that I learned in my 55 years in aviation leave the thinking
to others. most of us are not properly equipped to be thinking.
jim hyde
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Message 31
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OK, so in another couple of weeks I'll be starting to think about having Scout
do the thrust test with the official fish scales. Not in any hurry though. Who
has the scales and how do I go about getting in the mailing queue to try them
out?
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
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Message 32
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Static thrust tests are really a waste of time. As static thrust is a force and
nothing is moving there is no work being done. Static thrust is generally proportional
to the diameter of the propeller. The twist effects it if there is part
of the blade stalled but little of this matters until you are near climb speed.
So don't bother unless you are comparing one propeller to two different
motors and then rpm is more important anyway.
Brian Kenney
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 25, 2014, at 4:34 PM, "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> OK, so in another couple of weeks I'll be starting to think about having Scout
do the thrust test with the official fish scales. Not in any hurry though.
Who has the scales and how do I go about getting in the mailing queue to try
them out?
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419297#419297
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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