Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:18 AM - Re: Re: fish scales (Gary Boothe)
2. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: fish scales (l.morlock)
3. 10:31 AM - Re: corvair acceleration (VanDy)
4. 11:25 AM - Re: fish scales (BYD)
5. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: fish scales (Brian Kenney)
6. 05:01 PM - Re: newsletter (AircamperN11MS)
7. 05:33 PM - Cold Sortie (TriScout)
8. 05:36 PM - prop is done (Rick Schreiber)
9. 06:03 PM - Re: prop is done (Gary Boothe)
10. 06:06 PM - Re: prop is done (taildrags)
11. 06:26 PM - Re: Re: prop is done (Rick Schreiber)
12. 07:22 PM - Re: prop is done (taildrags)
13. 07:27 PM - Re: prop is done (taildrags)
14. 08:44 PM - Re: Air-Ground Communications (taildrags)
15. 09:17 PM - Re: Ailerons, up and down (Mild Bill)
16. 09:20 PM - oil recommendation (taildrags)
17. 09:43 PM - Re: Piet airfoils (Mild Bill)
18. 10:58 PM - Re: VW engines in Pietenpols (aerocarjake)
19. 11:02 PM - Re: Re: VW engines in Pietenpols (Out of Office) (TOM STINEMETZE)
Message 1
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It's Mike Groah you need to worry about...His beautiful Piet puts me to
shame!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 8:28 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fish scales
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
I'll be fine with a pull-off at Frazier Lake in June if Gary will park
"Samson" (his airplane) and be the judge, then the rest of us 90-lb
weaklings can strain and stretch against the mighty fish scales.
And to answer Dan's question about why "scales" are plural, I guess it goes
back to when they used the old balance scales with a little pan on each end
of a balance beam.
I plan to take some of my brass data plates to Frazier Lake in case anybody
wants to buy some, but maybe I'll put some up as prizes in the pull-off.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419370#419370
Message 2
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I have the fish scale(s) and will be happy to send it (them) to whomever
wants to be the next one "in charge." Just send me the address.
Larry Morlock
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:17 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: fish scales
>
> It's Mike Groah you need to worry about...His beautiful Piet puts me to
> shame!
>
> Gary Boothe
> NX308MB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of taildrags
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 8:28 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fish scales
>
> --> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
> I'll be fine with a pull-off at Frazier Lake in June if Gary will park
> "Samson" (his airplane) and be the judge, then the rest of us 90-lb
> weaklings can strain and stretch against the mighty fish scales.
>
> And to answer Dan's question about why "scales" are plural, I guess it
> goes
> back to when they used the old balance scales with a little pan on each
> end
> of a balance beam.
>
> I plan to take some of my brass data plates to Frazier Lake in case
> anybody
> wants to buy some, but maybe I'll put some up as prizes in the pull-off.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419370#419370
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: corvair acceleration |
I'm pretty sure grandpa didnt run it easy either! It is currently slowly going
back together in my garage right now, and I would bet money that it is about
the lightest one out there. Built strictly to plans with no bells or whistles
included! The engine is per B.H. Pietenpols conversion with the blower on top
and the cowl like "The Last Original" We even camped out on the original
Pietenpol Field in Cherry Grove, no hangar but we did walk into town and look
at his old shop and talk to a couple of the locals.
Jeff Boatright wrote:
> Fastest Piet I ever saw was Vandervoort's, which was powered by the
> original-style, Bernard Pietenpol version of a Corvair version. Didn't
> seem to have any problem getting Vandervoort up into the blue, either, and
> he was not tiny.
>
> --
>
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
> Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
>
>
>
>
> On 2/24/14 7:27 PM, "taildrags" wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > Paul;
> >
> > I can only relate my own experience, and here it is. I left a fly-in on
> > a nice mild sunny afternoon in Texas, field elevation maybe 600'MSL. I
> > was not at gross, maybe half fuel, but two aboard. My airplane has a
> > fresh A75. We were just about leveled off at our cruise altitude of
> > maybe 2500-3000' headed home when out of nowhere from behind us comes
> > "Axel" Purtee in his Corvair-powered Piet, also two aboard, and formed up
> > on our wing for photos. Mind you, we had about a 10 minute head start
> > and he had caught up with us. After the photos he firewalled it and
> > walked away. His "Fat Bottomed Girl" weighed more than my airplane. The
> > Corvair is a very competent engine for the Air Camper.
> >
> > --------
> > Oscar Zuniga
> > Medford, OR
> > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> > A75 power
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419280#419280
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of
> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged
> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly
> prohibited.
>
> If you have received this message in error, please contact
> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the
> original message (including attachments).
--------
A&P/IA
Recreational Pilot - working on Private
http://www.buckeye-aviation.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419382#419382
Message 4
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brian.kenney(at)live.ca wrote:
> Static thrust tests are really a waste of time. As static thrust is a force and
nothing is moving there is no work being done. Static thrust is generally proportional
to the diameter of the propeller. The twist effects it if there is
part of the blade stalled but little of this matters until you are near climb
speed. So don't bother unless you are comparing one propeller to two different
motors and then rpm is more important anyway.
>
> Brian Kenney
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
The tradition of testing with a scale started with BHP himself. Whenever he was
testing a new engine/prop combination, hed hitch the plane to a fence post and
measure the pull if it matched the figure he previously got from a well flying
ship, he would assume it would at least get in the air.
Somewhere, someone asked about comparisons between different power-plants and I
can add that a partner and myself attended Brodhead one year specifically to
compare and decide on what power-plant we wanted to use (we both had been building
with conventional engines in mind). After watching the climb out of all
the combinations present and he taking a ride in a Corvair powered ship and myself
in a Model-A version, we decided on the Model-A. It truly surprised us comparing
the climb out with passenger, how well the model-A performed. We had
to cutup the firewalls of our projects after returning home.
Not conclusive or scientific, but maybe itll help whomever asked.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419384#419384
Message 5
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Climb is the critical time for a low powered aircraft. it should be the only time
that the aircraft should use its maximum power. If it can't reach max rpm
in a climb then it will never reach max horsepower and effectively you have a
smaller engine than you think. You can then argue about what climb speed? The
temperature should be warm and the climb should not be realistically too slow.
I like to think that the propeller is like a one speed transmission. You need to
get it at the right ratio for the worst condition. Back to static thrust - take
a tractor pull on a tree stump. In low gear you have lots of pull and in high
not so much. Same motor. In the comparison static thrust is all about the
propeller like the transmission and not the motor
Cheers
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 27, 2014, at 8:28 AM, "BYD" <billsayre@ymail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> brian.kenney(at)live.ca wrote:
>> Static thrust tests are really a waste of time. As static thrust is a force
and nothing is moving there is no work being done. Static thrust is generally
proportional to the diameter of the propeller. The twist effects it if there is
part of the blade stalled but little of this matters until you are near climb
speed. So don't bother unless you are comparing one propeller to two different
motors and then rpm is more important anyway.
>>
>> Brian Kenney
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
> The tradition of testing with a scale started with BHP himself. Whenever he
was testing a new engine/prop combination, hed hitch the plane to a fence post
and measure the pull if it matched the figure he previously got from a well
flying ship, he would assume it would at least get in the air.
>
> Somewhere, someone asked about comparisons between different power-plants and
I can add that a partner and myself attended Brodhead one year specifically to
compare and decide on what power-plant we wanted to use (we both had been building
with conventional engines in mind). After watching the climb out of all
the combinations present and he taking a ride in a Corvair powered ship and
myself in a Model-A version, we decided on the Model-A. It truly surprised us
comparing the climb out with passenger, how well the model-A performed. We had
to cutup the firewalls of our projects after returning home.
>
> Not conclusive or scientific, but maybe itll help whomever asked.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419384#419384
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Well John, I must say that you have done an outstanding job on the newsletter.
I received my issue today and have read it cover to cover. Kudos.
Thank you for taking time away from flying to give us folks something to read and
hold on to.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419392#419392
Message 7
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Cold Recon.. 40 deg on ground..32 aloft. Not too shabby if you suit up. I can easily
see x-country in cold wx...nosig
http://youtu.be/JAo89ONwokU
--------
KLNC
A65-8
N2308C
AN Hardware
Airframe 724TT
W72CK-42 Sensenich
Standard Factory GN-1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419394#419394
Message 8
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I just heard from Jay and Carmen Anderson at Cloudcars Props and my prop
is done and ready for shipping! Its the one in the center of the photo.
If any one is interested the other two props, they are sister props to
mine and are available from Jay. The props are reverse rotation for a
Corvair engine, 68 inches x 34 pitch. This is the same prop style and
specs that Kevin Purtee and others have used on Corvair powered Piets.
new props
Jay may also have another similar prop available, but 68" x 29 pitch.
This is the first prop that Kevin started with. Her is a picture of the
prop on my Piet last year......
used prop
If anyone is interested in these props contact Jay at cloudcars@verizon.net
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Valparaiso, IN
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: prop is done |
Nice!!!!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 26, 2014, at 5:35 PM, Rick Schreiber <lmforge@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I just heard from Jay and Carmen Anderson at Cloudcars Props and my prop i
s done and ready for shipping! Its the one in the center of the photo. If an
y one is interested the other two props, they are sister props to mine and a
re available from Jay. The props are reverse rotation for a Corvair engine, 6
8 inches x 34 pitch. This is the same prop style and specs that Kevin Purtee
and others have used on Corvair powered Piets.
>
> <prop-new.jpg>
>
> Jay may also have another similar prop available, but 68" x 29 pitch. This
is the first prop that Kevin started with. Her is a picture of the prop on
my Piet last year......
>
> <prop-used.jpg>
>
> If anyone is interested in these props contact Jay at cloudcars@verizon.
net
>
> Rick Schreiber
> NX478RS
> Valparaiso, IN
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: prop is done |
For some reason I thought that Kevin had been flying a 66" ground-adjustable prop.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419399#419399
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: prop is done |
On 2/26/2014 8:06 PM, taildrags wrote:
>
> For some reason I thought that Kevin had been flying a 66" ground-adjustable
prop.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
Kevin has/had two props. He used a ground adjustable Warp Drive prop for
travel and the Cloudcars prop for flyins like Brodhead.
Rick Schreiber
NX478RS
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: prop is done |
Well, I'll have to go back to see if Kevin ever posted any observations on how
the Cloudcars performed relative to the Warp Drive. Appearance wise, there is
no comparison... the sword of Abdullah wins the prize! Time for an archive search...
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419403#419403
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: prop is done |
I'll save everyone else the trouble of searching for Kevin's post. Here it is
(snipped):
========
Ive taken so much abuse for the ugly-but-effective Warp Drive prop that I broke
down and bought a wooden prop from Cloudcars. It is 68x34. They originally
sent me a 68X27 which Jay calculated to be similar in pitch to my Warp at 7.5
degrees. It wasnt enough pitch. They very kindly provided another propeller.
It appears to have a little more functional pitch than the Warp. The plane
climbs a little slower, but still at better than 500 fpm, and flies about 10%
faster. Since were not allowed to fly our Cloudcars in the rain I may switch
to the Warp for traveling to and from Brodhead, and then use the pretty wooden
prop while there.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419404#419404
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Air-Ground Communications |
John asked-
>Is it legal to communicate (VHF aircraft frequencies) with
>a hand-held radio from the ground to an aircraft? Is it legal
>to communicate from one hand-held aircraft radio on the ground
>to another hand-held radio on the ground?
I wondered the same thing myself, some years ago while doing just that. My understanding
of the use of aircraft radios without the old radiotelephone operator's
license is that the aircraft radios (and, by extension, their operator) are
now permitted to be operated under a blanket approval under the CFRs, on the
air band frequencies assigned for each purpose. Ground vehicles and stations
are also permitted to operate on those frequencies and you hear them talking
to Ground all the time (fuel trucks, airport maintenance vehicles, etc.). However,
I don't think it's generally legal to conduct the types of operations that
you ask about. BUT-!!! Check out this excellent website that summarizes
the approved uses for each of the air band frequencies:
http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/aviation.html Look at the frequencies 123.125-123.575, which are for flight test stations. Click on the letter "J" to view the applicable Subpart that covers the use of those frequencies. It looks like a license must be applied for to use that frequency, but it's an option. Also look at 121.95, 123.3, and 123.5... "aviation support stations for pilot training" and other such functions.
I have always used 122.75, the frequency for private aircraft air-to-air communications,
and have not had anyone tell me not to use it for test flight communications
and the like. My guess is if you're not using it for chat and BS, the
worst that could happen is somebody could caution you not to use it.
I am NOT an expert in this matter AT ALL, although I do have one of those old RROPs
and I was once a Novice class amateur radio operator (WN5ODE).
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419409#419409
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Ailerons, up and down |
tools wrote:
> ....
>
> Bob Denver most likely died because a fuel valve was moved from the design point...
Now, did the original designer put it where it was due to some design
genius he had? Probably not... but the change did result in a short guy not being
able to reach it, and had catastrophic results on down the incident chain
of events.
>
> ....
jarheadpilot82 wrote:
> Tools,
>
> John Denver, the singer died in the airplane. Bob Denver, aka "Gilligan" of Island
fame died of cancer in 2005.
>
> Small point not germane to the discussion but worth correcting nonetheless.
>
> Skipper
The NTSB report makes for very interesting reading. Mostly Dragnet style - "The
facts, ma'am, just the facts." Here it is:
http://www.airsafe.com/events/celebs/ntsb-denver-factual.pdf
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419412#419412
Message 16
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| Subject: | oil recommendation |
Good ol' archives! I'm getting ready to change the oil on my A75 and started doing
some research since I'm now up in Oregon rather than down in Texas and I
was concerned about what viscosity and type to use up here. Cut to the chase,
I settled on Aeroshell W100, straight 50 weight, but I hit the archives and searched
on 'Aeroshell' because I knew I had asked the question about oil for Continentals
when I first got the airplane. From January 2006, from Jack Phillips:
>I ran straight mineral oil (SAE 50 wt) in mine for the first 25 hours
>for break-in. Since then I've been running Aeroshell Oil W 100,
>Ashless Dispersant (which is also what I've run in every plane
>I've ever owned, including a J-3 with an A65 Continental).
Thanks again, Jack! Anyway, what I learned from my research was that we don't
need to spend money on synthetics in the small Continentals... the benefits of
the synthetics are that they hold up better under high temperatures (which we
don't run) and they retain their properties for much longer (which we don't need
since we change our oil frequently in these engines that have no oil filter).
And we don't need multi-viscosity oils because it seems that they don't cling
to the metal parts as long as straight-grade oils, which is important if
the engine sits any length of time, which aircraft tend to do.
Seeing as how Chief Aircraft is right in my backyard, I stopped in and picked up
a case of W100... and some new spools of .041 and .032 safety wire, too ;o)
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419413#419413
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Piet airfoils |
>From the link "Pietenpol Airfoil - smoothed and points added for XFOIL analysis" at http://www.airminded.net/piet/piet.html :
1.0 0.003324511
0.983333333 0.007371069
0.966666667 0.011419437
0.95 0.015466848
0.933333333 0.019511597
0.916666667 0.023551872
0.9 0.027585375
0.883333333 0.031608982
0.866666667 0.035618303
0.85 0.03960711
0.833333333 0.043566745
0.816666667 0.047486195
0.8 0.051353603
0.783333333 0.055159453
0.766666667 0.058899455
0.75 0.062574057
0.733333333 0.066184717
0.716666667 0.069730517
0.7 0.07320774
0.683333333 0.076610323
0.666666667 0.079926447
0.65 0.083131377
0.633333333 0.086184472
0.616666667 0.089043745
0.6 0.091688965
0.583333333 0.09413457
0.566666667 0.096417845
0.55 0.09857832
0.533333333 0.100642113
0.516666667 0.102616648
0.5 0.104489513
0.483333333 0.106232118
0.466666667 0.107811775
0.45 0.109204015
0.433333333 0.110397992
0.416666667 0.111394568
0.4 0.112202348
0.383333333 0.112831847
0.366666667 0.1132884
0.35 0.113566172
0.333333333 0.113642325
0.316666667 0.113472383
0.3 0.113003743
0.283333333 0.112224492
0.266666667 0.111181008
0.25 0.10993856
0.233333333 0.108552502
0.216666667 0.107055488
0.2 0.105434702
0.191666667 0.104552952
0.183333333 0.103599495
0.175 0.10255355
0.166666667 0.101397348
0.158333333 0.100114312
0.15 0.098677812
0.141666667 0.097041682
0.133333333 0.095147857
0.125 0.09295502
0.116666667 0.09048015
0.108333333 0.087785458
0.1 0.084889483
0.091666667 0.081725082
0.0875 0.080017742
0.083333333 0.078223943
0.079166667 0.07634958
0.075 0.074404158
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0.002820217 0.027168667
0.00191922 0.0256471
0.001196105 0.02400983
0.000651377 0.022282095
0.000262064 0.020486015
3.60383E-05 0.018636102
2.92697E-05 0.016756457
0.000328321 0.01489865
0.001009116 0.013144177
0.002084945 0.011581541
0.003495569 0.010275528
0.005132964 0.009249303
0.006876884 0.00848373
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0.85 0.000763025
0.866666667 0.000677896
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0.916666667 0.000405451
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0.95 0.000222259
0.966666667 0.000135613
0.983333333 5.75147E-05
1.0 0.00000027
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419415#419415
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: VW engines in Pietenpols |
Thanks for the link Terry - good read....
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419418#419418
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: VW engines in Pietenpols (Out of Office) |
Tom Stinemetze will be unavailable for the remainder of the month of March. I
will be back in my office on April 1, 2013.
>>> "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com> 02/27/14 00:58 >>>
Thanks for the link Terry - good read....
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419418#419418
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