Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:39 AM - Re: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? (Clif Dawson)
2. 12:46 AM - CB350 wheels (Douwe Blumberg)
3. 04:11 AM - Re: CB350 wheels (Brian Kenney)
4. 04:16 AM - Re: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? (Brian Kenney)
5. 04:43 AM - Re: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? (Brian Kenney)
6. 09:40 AM - Re: Which one? (Bill Church)
7. 10:56 AM - Re: Re: Which one? (Steven Dortch)
8. 10:56 AM - Re: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? (Michael Weston)
9. 11:28 AM - Re: Re: Which one? (Gary Boothe)
10. 02:49 PM - Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? (William Wynne)
11. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? (Brian Kenney)
12. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: Which one? (danhelsper@aol.com)
13. 04:39 PM - Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? (William Wynne)
14. 04:40 PM - Re: Which one? (Bill Church)
15. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: Which one? (Steven Dortch)
16. 06:06 PM - Re: Which one? (Bill Church)
17. 06:14 PM - Re: Which one? (taildrags)
18. 06:21 PM - Re: Re: Which one? (Steven Dortch)
19. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: Which one? (Steven Dortch)
20. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? (Brian Kenney)
21. 06:53 PM - Re: Re: Which one? (Brian Kenney)
22. 06:59 PM - Re: Fuselage Width (john francis)
23. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? (Steven Dortch)
24. 07:06 PM - DNA analysis please (M. Zeke Zechini)
25. 07:23 PM - Re: Re: Which one? (Steven Dortch)
26. 07:33 PM - Re: DNA analysis please (Boatright, Jeffrey)
27. 07:38 PM - Re: DNA analysis please (Steven Dortch)
28. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? (Steven Dortch)
29. 07:49 PM - Re: Re: Vasek's production of Historic Propellers (Steven Dortch)
30. 08:06 PM - Re: Piet parts for sale (Brian Durham)
31. 08:06 PM - Re: Piet parts for sale (Brian Durham)
32. 08:39 PM - Re: Corvair engine core (William Wynne)
33. 09:27 PM - Re: DNA analysis please (Chris)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? |
Your right, In researching further another site
turned up that didn't the first time. They say
the go devil engine itself weighs 148 lb.
That NZ Piet, was it operating with or without
a reduction unit?
Jim Malley's Piet has a 98hp Ford Fiesta in
it but with a psru.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Kenney
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe?
I know that 2200 cc will fly a Pietenpol because I just had a ride in
one in New Zealand.
It needed 3000 rpm to get enough power and was an overhead valve
engine. It was from a Toyota Hilux.
As for weight, published weights are usually misleading.
As for your general points, they are valid questions and worthy of
consideration.
Brian
>
> According to the Flying and Glider Piet article the Ford
> A weighs 244lb.
> According to this Wikipedia article the Willys weighs
> in at 470 lb!
> We just told a certain propmaker that he couldn't use
> his VW engine because it's too small and revs too high.
> It's 2500cc. The Willys is 2200cc.
> The c-65 is 2830cc and the Corvair starts at 2700cc.
> The Ford is a wopping 3400cc! and 128 ft-lb torque.
> The c65 has 148lb torque. The little Willys? 114 ft-lb.
> The Corvair appears to be 155 but at 2800 rpm.
>
> So, perusing the above, in direct drive, will the Willys
> be able to pull it off?
> Bad Clif
Message 2
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Hey Bill,
Out of curiosity, how do those brakes hold and over the last 27 years, how
often would you guess you've had to replace the pads, if at all?
Douwe
Message 3
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I have never replaced the pads and used the old ones that came with the whe
els. I only recently adjusted the cable for the first time after over 25 ye
ars.. I am using only one of the two shoes in each wheel. I use the leadin
g shoe only ( the one that self energizes). I can lock the wheels on grass
and have pulled the tail off the ground on payment but only under extreme b
reaking. They won't really hold under full throttle but that doesn't mean t
hey are not good as they really shorten the roll and are I think they are
the perfect balance. They worked out great and I lucked out with the set u
p.
From: douweblumberg@earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: CB350 wheels
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Hey Bill=2C=0A
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Out of curiosity=2C how do those brakes hold and over the last=0A
27 years=2C how often would you guess you=92ve had to replace the pads=2C i
f at=0A
all?=0A
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? |
It is direct drive. The guy that did it has three of them in different type
s of airplanes and there are two others on Air Campers down under. I saw on
e but didn't get to talk to the owner who was out of town.
From: cdawson5854@shaw.ca
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe?
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Your right=2C In researching further another =0A
site=0A
turned up that didn't the first time. They =0A
say=0A
the go devil engine itself weighs 148 =0A
lb.=0A
=0A
That NZ Piet=2C was it operating with or =0A
without=0A
a reduction unit? =0A
=0A
Jim Malley's Piet has a 98hp Ford Fiesta =0A
in=0A
it but with a psru.=0A
=0A
Clif=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
----- Original Message ----- =0A
From: =0A
Brian =0A
Kenney =0A
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A
=0A
Sent: Saturday=2C March 08=2C 2014 8:00 =0A
AM=0A
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Willys =0A
jeep pietenpol engine maybe?=0A
=0A
I know that 2200 cc will fly a Pietenpol because I just had a =0A
ride in one in New Zealand.
It needed 3000 rpm to get enough power and was =0A
an overhead valve engine. It was from a Toyota Hilux.
As for =0A
weight=2C published weights are usually misleading.
As for your =0A
general points=2C they are valid questions and worthy of consideration.
=0A
Brian
=0A
>
> According to the Flying and Glider Piet article the =0A
Ford
> A weighs 244lb.
> According to this Wikipedia article the =0A
Willys weighs
> in at 470 lb!
> We just told a certain propmaker =0A
that he couldn't use
> his VW engine because it's too small and revs too =0A
high.
> It's 2500cc. The Willys is 2200cc.
> The c-65 is 2830cc =0A
and the Corvair starts at 2700cc.
> The Ford is a wopping 3400cc! and =0A
128 ft-lb torque.
> The c65 has 148lb torque. The little Willys? 114 =0A
ft-lb.
> The Corvair appears to be 155 but at 2800 rpm.
>
> =0A
So=2C perusing the above=2C in direct drive=2C will the Willys
> be able to =0A
pull it off?
> Bad Clif
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
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=0A
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? |
By the way Clif I believe that a model A engine in a Piet produces more pow
er than the rated horsepower stated by Ford. I think it is at least 50 hors
epower or perhaps a little more. This is due to better breathing and perha
ps the aluminum head. It has to produce more because of the way it performs
. Some folks that have used higher rpm likely have even more but it is alwa
ys the power versus reliability trade-off to consider. That 200 cu in is ha
rd to beat.
From: brian.kenney@live.ca
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe?
=0A
=0A
=0A
It is direct drive. The guy that did it has three of them in different type
s of airplanes and there are two others on Air Campers down under. I saw on
e but didn't get to talk to the owner who was out of town.
From: cdawson5854@shaw.ca
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe?
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Your right=2C In researching further another =0A
site=0A
turned up that didn't the first time. They =0A
say=0A
the go devil engine itself weighs 148 =0A
lb.=0A
=0A
That NZ Piet=2C was it operating with or =0A
without=0A
a reduction unit? =0A
=0A
Jim Malley's Piet has a 98hp Ford Fiesta =0A
in=0A
it but with a psru.=0A
=0A
Clif=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
----- Original Message ----- =0A
From: =0A
Brian =0A
Kenney =0A
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0A
=0A
Sent: Saturday=2C March 08=2C 2014 8:00 =0A
AM=0A
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Willys =0A
jeep pietenpol engine maybe?=0A
=0A
I know that 2200 cc will fly a Pietenpol because I just had a =0A
ride in one in New Zealand.
It needed 3000 rpm to get enough power and was =0A
an overhead valve engine. It was from a Toyota Hilux.
As for =0A
weight=2C published weights are usually misleading.
As for your =0A
general points=2C they are valid questions and worthy of consideration.
=0A
Brian
=0A
>
> According to the Flying and Glider Piet article the =0A
Ford
> A weighs 244lb.
> According to this Wikipedia article the =0A
Willys weighs
> in at 470 lb!
> We just told a certain propmaker =0A
that he couldn't use
> his VW engine because it's too small and revs too =0A
high.
> It's 2500cc. The Willys is 2200cc.
> The c-65 is 2830cc =0A
and the Corvair starts at 2700cc.
> The Ford is a wopping 3400cc! and =0A
128 ft-lb torque.
> The c65 has 148lb torque. The little Willys? 114 =0A
ft-lb.
> The Corvair appears to be 155 but at 2800 rpm.
>
> =0A
So=2C perusing the above=2C in direct drive=2C will the Willys
> be able to =0A
pull it off?
> Bad Clif
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A
============0A
http://forums.matronics.com=0A
============0A
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A
============0A
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Message 6
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Glen,
As mentioned, there are the original Pietenpol Air Camper plans, that were published
in the 1932 Flying and Glider magazine, and which you have a copy of. Then
there are the plans available from the Pietenpol family.
http://community.pressenter.net/~apietenp/BHPietenpolAndSonsAirCamperAircraftPurchasePlans.html
In addition to these, there were a couple of different sets of plans for "modernized"
versions of the Air Camper that were sold. One set was the St. Croix Air
Camper, and the other was the Grega GN-1 Aircamper. Neither of these are
available for sale anymore.
While some have built their aircraft strictly from the Flying and Glider plans,
I believe it would be a real challenge to do so, since the reprints are so small,
and are simply lacking some details. My recommendation would be to obtain
a set of the plans from the Pietenpol family, to complement the Flying and
Glider plans.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420038#420038
Message 7
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Bill, Just to muddy the water. I have a Pietenpol With plans that were
modified by Grega. But it is not a Grega! It is a Pietenpol fuselage with
mods that later became the Grega wing. I think. It is just enough hybrid
that I cannot firmly tell you where the Grega mods definitely begin or end.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Pietenpol Air-Camper
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Glen,
> As mentioned, there are the original Pietenpol Air Camper plans, that were
> published in the 1932 Flying and Glider magazine, and which you have a copy
> of. Then there are the plans available from the Pietenpol family.
>
> http://community.pressenter.net/~apietenp/BHPietenpolAndSonsAirCamperAircraftPurchasePlans.html
>
> In addition to these, there were a couple of different sets of plans for
> "modernized" versions of the Air Camper that were sold. One set was the
> St. Croix Air Camper, and the other was the Grega GN-1 Aircamper. Neither
> of these are available for sale anymore.
>
> While some have built their aircraft strictly from the Flying and Glider
> plans, I believe it would be a real challenge to do so, since the reprints
> are so small, and are simply lacking some details. My recommendation would
> be to obtain a set of the plans from the Pietenpol family, to complement
> the Flying and Glider plans.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420038#420038
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? |
a 134 cu in jeep engine sans manifolds and sans flywheel weighs #245 pounds with
iron head according to the scale in my friends milk barn however, i would be
carefull to compare it to the oft quoted weight of #241 lbs with magneto for
the model A because i know none of you guys has actually done it. just my two
cents
Message 9
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Then, there's this, from Grant MacLaren, circa 1999:
Like many other modifications to an airplane's design -- one change
requires many other changes. If a "new" biplane is designed, it will be just
that --
a new design. It should not carry the name "Pietenpol."
Pietenpols forever!
-=Grant MacLaren=-
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven
Dortch
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Which one?
Bill, Just to muddy the water. I have a Pietenpol With plans that were
modified by Grega. But it is not a Grega! It is a Pietenpol fuselage with
mods that later became the Grega wing. I think. It is just enough hybrid
that I cannot firmly tell you where the Grega mods definitely begin or end.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Pietenpol Air-Camper
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Glen,
As mentioned, there are the original Pietenpol Air Camper plans, that were
published in the 1932 Flying and Glider magazine, and which you have a copy
of. Then there are the plans available from the Pietenpol family.
http://community.pressenter.net/~apietenp/BHPietenpolAndSonsAirCamperAircraf
tPurchasePlans.html
In addition to these, there were a couple of different sets of plans for
"modernized" versions of the Air Camper that were sold. One set was the St.
Croix Air Camper, and the other was the Grega GN-1 Aircamper. Neither of
these are available for sale anymore.
While some have built their aircraft strictly from the Flying and Glider
plans, I believe it would be a real challenge to do so, since the reprints
are so small, and are simply lacking some details. My recommendation would
be to obtain a set of the plans from the Pietenpol family, to complement
the Flying and Glider plans.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420038#420038
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? |
Kenny,
I watched the Youtube clip several times, and I think you are doing something
pretty neat. I have been a life long fan of flatheads, Grace and I have a little
collection in the hangar.
I read all the notes, and for my 2 cents, I think that you have a power plant that
will work within limitations, (just as all engines do). I was headed over
to my neighbors with the scale, but Mr. Mdw, covered this, and effectively showed
both the weight is comparable to a Ford, and also how unreliable internet
data can be. I think most people miss that there are both L-134's and OHV F-134's.
Scale in a milk barn always beats the internet for useful data,
Clif listed the displacements and rpm ranges of several engines, and to it I would
like to add the consideration of compression ratio. We have been testing this
for a year, back to back, same airframe, etc, and it is surprising the difference
between 8.0 and 10.25 to one. The relationship holds true with most engines.
I am sure that an O-200 with 8:1 and OHV can be tuned to make more power
at any given rpm than a 200 cid Ford. Displacement alone is an incomplete picture.
On 'tight' motors: If everything else is set right, it is ring drag on the surface
finish of the bores that makes it hard to prop. In my experience, 10 hours
of ground runs at 50-60% power has the same smoothing effect as one takeoff and
climb to 3,000' at wot. 280 finish on bores is better than 220, but it is time
at wot that helps.
An optical tach like a Proptach 2545 and a ground adjustable prop are a good 'comparative'
Dyno. Get the prop in the test range, check the static rpm, make the
change and compare rpm. I have loaner WD props, (in both rotations), glad to
send one to you for testing.
If Oz's chart is good, targeting 3000 rpm instead of 2500 will buy you a 28% hp
increase. The loss of prop efficiency will be in the single digits, and you will
have a large net thrust increase. Test this with the loaner prop, you will
become convinced.
You will have plenty of people tell you it will/won't work. Their belief is based
on stories, and since every Pietenpol is a 'snowflake' unto itself, much of
the commentary does not apply. You should be able to use The Ford weight and
Balance data we collected. My website tells how to get this directly from Doc
Mosher.
I do not think the success of Fords is because they make 'more than 50 hp' The
W&B tests showed that the Ford guys build lighter planes than many A-65 guys.
The Ford guys also use better matched props on average. They go into their build
knowing they don't have weight or power to waste. It is the opposite attitude
of a guy who thinks 'I have a light motor, I don't have to care'.
Last thought: There will never be any psru that will be as light, reliable nor
as cheap as a 12 pound, $500 new turbocharger. I am not kidding, they are very
easy to plumb on flatheads, they don't stress engines, they function as mufflers,
and 134 cid at 36" MAP is 200 cid of airflow. Look up the turbo testing on
my webpage, email me direct or call anytime.-ww.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420053#420053
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? |
Compression ratio increases can be impractical in a L head because cross se
ction area reduction as the head gets shaved. The engine breathes less (int
ake and exhaust) as the area get smaller. Therefore the more practical way
to increase power is to compress the intake charge by super or turbo chargi
ng as William suggests. Turbocharging has one danger in that hot exhaust ge
ts compressed too and therefore the consequences of an exhaust leak increas
e as a result. Just thoughts to ponder.
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe?
> From: WilliamTCA@aol.com
> Date: Sun=2C 9 Mar 2014 14:48:54 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
> Kenny=2C
> I watched the Youtube clip several times=2C and I think you are doing so
mething pretty neat. I have been a life long fan of flatheads=2C Grace and
I have a little collection in the hangar.
>
> I read all the notes=2C and for my 2 cents=2C I think that you have a pow
er plant that will work within limitations=2C (just as all engines do). I w
as headed over to my neighbors with the scale=2C but Mr. Mdw=2C covered thi
s=2C and effectively showed both the weight is comparable to a Ford=2C and
also how unreliable internet data can be. I think most people miss that the
re are both L-134's and OHV F-134's. Scale in a milk barn always beats the
internet for useful data=2C
>
> Clif listed the displacements and rpm ranges of several engines=2C and to
it I would like to add the consideration of compression ratio. We have bee
n testing this for a year=2C back to back=2C same airframe=2C etc=2C and it
is surprising the difference between 8.0 and 10.25 to one. The relationshi
p holds true with most engines. I am sure that an O-200 with 8:1 and OHV ca
n be tuned to make more power at any given rpm than a 200 cid Ford. Displac
ement alone is an incomplete picture.
>
> On 'tight' motors: If everything else is set right=2C it is ring drag on
the surface finish of the bores that makes it hard to prop. In my experienc
e=2C 10 hours of ground runs at 50-60% power has the same smoothing effect
as one takeoff and climb to 3=2C000' at wot. 280 finish on bores is better
than 220=2C but it is time at wot that helps.
>
> An optical tach like a Proptach 2545 and a ground adjustable prop are a g
ood 'comparative' Dyno. Get the prop in the test range=2C check the static
rpm=2C make the change and compare rpm. I have loaner WD props=2C (in both
rotations)=2C glad to send one to you for testing.
>
> If Oz's chart is good=2C targeting 3000 rpm instead of 2500 will buy you
a 28% hp increase. The loss of prop efficiency will be in the single digits
=2C and you will have a large net thrust increase. Test this with the loane
r prop=2C you will become convinced.
>
> You will have plenty of people tell you it will/won't work. Their belief
is based on stories=2C and since every Pietenpol is a 'snowflake' unto itse
lf=2C much of the commentary does not apply. You should be able to use The
Ford weight and Balance data we collected. My website tells how to get this
directly from Doc Mosher.
>
> I do not think the success of Fords is because they make 'more than 50 hp
' The W&B tests showed that the Ford guys build lighter planes than many A
-65 guys. The Ford guys also use better matched props on average. They go i
nto their build knowing they don't have weight or power to waste. It is the
opposite attitude of a guy who thinks 'I have a light motor=2C I don't hav
e to care'.
>
> Last thought: There will never be any psru that will be as light=2C relia
ble nor as cheap as a 12 pound=2C $500 new turbocharger. I am not kidding
=2C they are very easy to plumb on flatheads=2C they don't stress engines
=2C they function as mufflers=2C and 134 cid at 36" MAP is 200 cid of airfl
ow. Look up the turbo testing on my webpage=2C email me direct or call anyt
ime.-ww.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420053#420053
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 12
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Amen.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
cc: Board of Curmudgeons
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Sun, Mar 9, 2014 1:28 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Which one?
Then, there=99s this, from Grant MacLaren, circa 1999:
Like many other modifications to an airplane's design -- one change
requires many other changes. If a "new" biplane is designed, it will be jus
t that --
a new design. It should not carry the name "Pietenpol."
Pietenpols forever!
-=Grant MacLaren=-
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Dortch
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Which one?
Bill, Just to muddy the water. I have a Pietenpol With plans that were modi
fied by Grega. But it is not a Grega! It is a Pietenpol fuselage with mods
that later became the Grega wing. I think. It is just enough hybrid that I
cannot firmly tell you where the Grega mods definitely begin or end.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Pietenpol Air-Camper
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote
:
>
Glen,
As mentioned, there are the original Pietenpol Air Camper plans, that were
published in the 1932 Flying and Glider magazine, and which you have a copy
of. Then there are the plans available from the Pietenpol family.
http://community.pressenter.net/~apietenp/BHPietenpolAndSonsAirCamperAircra
ftPurchasePlans.html
In addition to these, there were a couple of different sets of plans for "m
odernized" versions of the Air Camper that were sold. One set was the St.
Croix Air Camper, and the other was the Grega GN-1 Aircamper. Neither of
these are available for sale anymore.
While some have built their aircraft strictly from the Flying and Glider pl
ans, I believe it would be a real challenge to do so, since the reprints ar
e so small, and are simply lacking some details. My recommendation would b
e to obtain a set of the plans from the Pietenpol family, to complement th
e Flying and Glider plans.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420038#420038
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? |
Brian,
You are correct on the limits of compression increase on flatheads. The point I
was trying to make is that Kenny's HP per cubic inch at 6.5:1 should be better
than the Ford HP per cubic inch at 4.25 to 5.25:l. The limits for increasing
on the Jeep may be higher still, as it has a wildly under square bore and stroke
ratio.
Manifolds on flatheads are on the same side and short, good for compact turbo installation.
The exhaust pressure is less than you may suspect, the energy of
the exhaust gasses is primarily heat. In an enclosed compartment always a concern,
especially with a lot of joints, but I was kind of picturing it out in the
slipstream. I am pretty sure someone brought a turbocharged Piet to Brodhead
in the last decade, but I can't remember who it was.
Part of the reason why I am optimistic about Kenny's project is thinking about
A-37 and A-40 Continentals. They are flatheads also, they have less cubic inches.
They are maybe 80 pounds lighter, but they did fly a lot of stuff like J-3s
on floats with light people.-ww
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420056#420056
Message 14
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Steve,
Not sure I follow. You have a set of Pietenpol plans that John Grega modified?
And your fuselage was modified to become a wing? :)
There are a lot of homebuilts out there that were begun from a set of plans, and
got modified along the way. For instance, from looking at old photos, back
in the 60's it seemed to be a popular modification to add spill plates to the
tips of Pietenpol wings. Since the practice did not continue, one can likely
deduce that the modification did not improve performance. Likewise, it is also
clear that the mod did not improve appearance either. It is pretty common with
this design for buiilders to make changes. Some changes are very subtle, and
others are not so subtle. it is quite possible that the original builder of
your plane started with a set od Pietenpol plans, and incorporated selected details
borrowed from the Grega plans.
Bill C.
> Bill, Just to muddy the water. I have a Pietenpol With plans that were modified
by Grega. But it is not a Grega! It is a Pietenpol fuselage with mods that
later became the Grega wing. I think. It is just enough hybrid that I cannot firmly
tell you where the Grega mods definitely begin or end.
>
> Blue Skies,
>
> Steve D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420057#420057
Message 15
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Bill,
*The logbook on my Piet says it is a "Pietenpol aircamper......in
accordance with the original drawings as amended by John w. Grega to
include...." forward section of the fuselage is extended 6 inches for the
different motor (Grega drawing). Wing built in 3 sections *(
*the air foil looks like a Pietenpol)with a 9.5 gallon gas tank in upper
wing. also the Right gear is J3 cub. Left gear was fabricated to match (a
Grega idea). *
*The Fuselage follows the Pietenpol plans by Orrin Hoopman. The bolts
attaching the Cabanes to the Fuselage runs right to left like the Pietenpol
plans. The bolts attaching the cabanes to the wing run from front to rear
and attach a 3 piece wing with a wing tank, A la Grega. . *
*Sorry if I don't get to join the club. But everyone already calls me a
Bastard;+}*
*Blue Skies,*
*Steve D.*
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> Steve,
> Not sure I follow. You have a set of Pietenpol plans that John Grega
> modified? And your fuselage was modified to become a wing? :)
> There are a lot of homebuilts out there that were begun from a set of
> plans, and got modified along the way. For instance, from looking at old
> photos, back in the 60's it seemed to be a popular modification to add
> spill plates to the tips of Pietenpol wings. Since the practice did not
> continue, one can likely deduce that the modification did not improve
> performance. Likewise, it is also clear that the mod did not improve
> appearance either. It is pretty common with this design for buiilders to
> make changes. Some changes are very subtle, and others are not so subtle.
> it is quite possible that the original builder of your plane started with
> a set od Pietenpol plans, and incorporated selected details borrowed from
> the Grega plans.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> > Bill, Just to muddy the water. I have a Pietenpol With plans that were
> modified by Grega. But it is not a Grega! It is a Pietenpol fuselage with
> mods that later became the Grega wing. I think. It is just enough hybrid
> that I cannot firmly tell you where the Grega mods definitely begin or end.
> >
> > Blue Skies,
> >
> > Steve D
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420057#420057
>
>
Message 16
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So, Steve, it sounds like you have an example of what I was referring to - A plane
built using the Pietenpol plans, with selected modifications (in this case,
borrowed from the GN-1). Good that the original builder chose to retain the
original fuselage design , as the Grega modifications (added plywood sheathing
unnecessarily added weight to the aft fuselage structure.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420059#420059
Message 17
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Steve;
I think you can run two quick DNA tests to check for paternity.
1. Can the angle of the cabanes be changed; i.e., if there were no cabane brace
struts or cables, can the wing physically be pivoted forward or aft by changing
the angle of the cabanes? If the answer is 'no', Mr. Pietenpol is not the
father.
2. Do the landing gear leg attach points meet the lower longerons at the wing strut
attach points, both forward and aft? If the answer is 'no', Mr. Pietenpol
is not the father.
If you're still holding out a thread of hope, you can try one last check but it's
not definitive: are the tailwheel control cables connected to the bottom of
the rudder using brackets on the rudder rather than running forward to the rudder
bar? Grega connected them in that fashion but others have used the same
method in the interest of eliminating a second set of control cables the length
of the empennage.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420060#420060
Message 18
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Biggest drawback to the Grega mod is that the wing cannot be moved fore and
aft to help with CG.
The Three piece wing makes it handy to work on here in the garage. I like
the Wing tank as well.
It is what I have. Several of the old pilots at 8T8 say who have flown it
say it flies really well.
Blue Skies
Steve D.
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Bill Church <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> billspiet@sympatico.ca>
>
> So, Steve, it sounds like you have an example of what I was referring to -
> A plane built using the Pietenpol plans, with selected modifications (in
> this case, borrowed from the GN-1). Good that the original builder chose
> to retain the original fuselage design , as the Grega modifications (added
> plywood sheathing unnecessarily added weight to the aft fuselage structure.
>
> Bill C.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420059#420059
>
>
Message 19
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1. Can the angle of the cabanes be changed; i.e., if there were no cabane
brace struts or cables, can the wing physically be pivoted forward or aft
by changing the angle of the cabanes? If the answer is 'no', Mr. Pietenpol
is not the father.
NO, but the bottoms would pivot fore and aft. the tops pivot port and
starboard. Hybrid.
2. Do the landing gear leg attach points meet the lower longerons at the
wing strut attach points, both forward and aft? If the answer is 'no', Mr.
Pietenpol is not the father.
YES, They do. but the Logbook confesses that they are Cub gear.
3. Are the tailwheel control cables connected to the bottom of the rudder
using brackets on the rudder rather than running forward to the rudder
bar?
NO, the cables go to the rudder on top. There was no steering on the
tailwheel until John K put it on. It now has a Cessna tailwheel and we
still have to finish putting in Pulleys and such to complete the tail
steering.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 8:14 PM, taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Steve;
>
> I think you can run two quick DNA tests to check for paternity.
>
> 1. Can the angle of the cabanes be changed; i.e., if there were no cabane
> brace struts or cables, can the wing physically be pivoted forward or aft
> by changing the angle of the cabanes? If the answer is 'no', Mr. Pietenpol
> is not the father.
>
> 2. Do the landing gear leg attach points meet the lower longerons at the
> wing strut attach points, both forward and aft? If the answer is 'no', Mr.
> Pietenpol is not the father.
>
> If you're still holding out a thread of hope, you can try one last check
> but it's not definitive: are the tailwheel control cables connected to the
> bottom of the rudder using brackets on the rudder rather than running
> forward to the rudder bar? Grega connected them in that fashion but others
> have used the same method in the interest of eliminating a second set of
> control cables the length of the empennage.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420060#420060
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? |
I think Frank L. from the Milwaukee area put a turbo or supercharger on hi
s Funk? engine. You are probably correct that the exhaust pressure may not
be that high but there is still the concern that the exhaust piping and fla
nges need to be made carefully as most factory turbos are piped with alloy
tubing and rightfully so. I personally would not want to fly in a turbo eng
ine aircraft in a tight cowled aircraft with homemade exhaust piping and m
aybe not even with factory piping because a crack could/would mean a fire.
That is just my fear limitation.
Flat heads are not that much of a penalty on a slow turning engines and why
auto engines don't need overhead cams in direct drive applications on airp
lanes. The point I was making that to go more power the right direction is
to pressurize the intake not to modify it internally.
Don't take my comments as a challenge to your knowledge but really to vali
date what you said and to educate others that might not be so acquainted w
ith the all the limitations.
I confess that I don't know much about the engine in question. What will th
e increased rpm and/or power do to the bottom engine or to the breathing of
the engine? I think it has a chance=2C the question more relates to wheth
er the end result is a one or two seater.
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe?
> From: WilliamTCA@aol.com
> Date: Sun=2C 9 Mar 2014 16:38:56 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
> Brian=2C
> You are correct on the limits of compression increase on flatheads. The p
oint I was trying to make is that Kenny's HP per cubic inch at 6.5:1 should
be better than the Ford HP per cubic inch at 4.25 to 5.25:l. The limits f
or increasing on the Jeep may be higher still=2C as it has a wildly under s
quare bore and stroke ratio.
>
> Manifolds on flatheads are on the same side and short=2C good for compact
turbo installation. The exhaust pressure is less than you may suspect=2C t
he energy of the exhaust gasses is primarily heat. In an enclosed compartme
nt always a concern=2C especially with a lot of joints=2C but I was kind of
picturing it out in the slipstream. I am pretty sure someone brought a tur
bocharged Piet to Brodhead in the last decade=2C but I can't remember who i
t was.
>
> Part of the reason why I am optimistic about Kenny's project is thinking
about A-37 and A-40 Continentals. They are flatheads also=2C they have less
cubic inches. They are maybe 80 pounds lighter=2C but they did fly a lot o
f stuff like J-3s on floats with light people.-ww
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420056#420056
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 21
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This is my take on this debate. Anyone that is building an aircraft like th
e one we are all interested has much in common. Debating on the originality
of a particular design is counter productive as all it does is subdivide a
small group into even smaller groups. I hate when people appear to act sup
erior because they think they are more authentic or more pure. I know it is
human nature but it is stupid. We should embrace all that is Pietenpol-lik
e and in doing so we are all better off and that allows us to educate all i
n all the ways of doing this and let them decide what is the best way to d
o something rather than being shamed into like it is some form of Victorian
racism. Come on people don't be so judgemental=2C Bernie Pietenpol certai
nly wasn't!
I might be reading this wrong and that might not be the intention but if I
am taking it that way than so are others!
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Which one?
From: steven.d.dortch@gmail.com
1. Can the angle of the cabanes be changed=3B i.e.=2C if there were no =0A
cabane brace struts or cables=2C can the wing physically be pivoted =0A
forward or aft by changing the angle of the cabanes? If the answer is =0A
'no'=2C Mr. Pietenpol is not the father.
NO=2C but the bottoms would pivot fore and aft. the tops pivot port and sta
rboard. Hybrid.
2. Do the landing gear leg attach points meet the lower longerons at the=0A
wing strut attach points=2C both forward and aft? If the answer is 'no'
=2C=0A
Mr. Pietenpol is not the father.
YES=2C They do. but the Logbook confesses that they are Cub gear.
3. Are the tailwheel control cables connected to the bottom of the rudder
=0A
using brackets on the rudder rather than running forward to the rudder =0A
bar?
NO=2C the cables go to the rudder on top. There was no steering on the tail
wheel until John K put it on. It now has a Cessna tailwheel and we still ha
ve to finish putting in Pulleys and such to complete the tail steering.
=0A
Blue Skies=2C
Steve D
=0A
On Sun=2C Mar 9=2C 2014 at 8:14 PM=2C taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com> wro
te:
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Steve=3B
=0A
=0A
I think you can run two quick DNA tests to check for paternity.
=0A
=0A
1. Can the angle of the cabanes be changed=3B i.e.=2C if there were no caba
ne brace struts or cables=2C can the wing physically be pivoted forward or
aft by changing the angle of the cabanes? If the answer is 'no'=2C Mr. Pie
tenpol is not the father.
=0A
=0A
=0A
2. Do the landing gear leg attach points meet the lower longerons at the wi
ng strut attach points=2C both forward and aft? If the answer is 'no'=2C M
r. Pietenpol is not the father.
=0A
=0A
If you're still holding out a thread of hope=2C you can try one last check
but it's not definitive: are the tailwheel control cables connected to the
bottom of the rudder using brackets on the rudder rather than running forwa
rd to the rudder bar? Grega connected them in that fashion but others have
used the same method in the interest of eliminating a second set of contro
l cables the length of the empennage.
=0A
=0A
=0A
--------
=0A
Oscar Zuniga
=0A
Medford=2C OR
=0A
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
=0A
A75 power
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Read this topic online here:
=0A
=0A
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420060#420060
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=0A
=0A
http://forums.matronics.com
=0A
=0A
le=2C List Admin.
=0A
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
=0A
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Width |
Tomorrow it may get to 60 degrees here. I am hoping to begin to glue the fuse sides
together. I looked at a lot of pictures on westcoastpiet and it appears
people start all over the place. I think the front two connectors are not put
into place because of the addition of the engine mount later? Some add the 3/8's
plywood floor before adding the additional connectors while others add the
connectors first then lay the flooring on top. What should I not do when connecting
the fuselage together that would cause problems later?
Thanks,
John
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420065#420065
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? |
One "hot" setup on a Go-Devil Jeep (circa 1960) was
Dual carbs
compression raised to 7.5 to 1 with Hickey Head
bored to 141 cubic inches.
reground camshaft with proper timing and lift,
and improved headers (20-25% HP increase)
These mods were available at one time (1970s) but I am not sure you could
find them now.
Blue Skies,
Steve
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 8:36 PM, Brian Kenney <brian.kenney@live.ca> wrote:
> I think Frank L. from the Milwaukee area put a turbo or supercharger on
> his Funk? engine. You are probably correct that the exhaust pressure may
> not be that high but there is still the concern that the exhaust piping and
> flanges need to be made carefully as most factory turbos are piped with
> alloy tubing and rightfully so. I personally would not want to fly in a
> turbo engine aircraft in a tight cowled aircraft with homemade exhaust
> piping and maybe not even with factory piping because a crack could/would
> mean a fire. That is just my fear limitation.
>
> Flat heads are not that much of a penalty on a slow turning engines and
> why auto engines don't need overhead cams in direct drive applications on
> airplanes. The point I was making that to go more power the right direction
> is to pressurize the intake not to modify it internally.
>
> Don't take my comments as a challenge to your knowledge but really to
> validate what you said and to educate others that might not be so
> acquainted with the all the limitations.
>
> I confess that I don't know much about the engine in question. What will
> the increased rpm and/or power do to the bottom engine or to the breathing
> of the engine? I think it has a chance, the question more relates to
> whether the end result is a one or two seater.
>
>
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe?
> > From: WilliamTCA@aol.com
> > Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2014 16:38:56 -0700
>
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >
> WilliamTCA@aol.com>
> >
> > Brian,
> > You are correct on the limits of compression increase on flatheads. The
> point I was trying to make is that Kenny's HP per cubic inch at 6.5:1
> should be better than the Ford HP per cubic inch at 4.25 to 5.25:l. The
> limits for increasing on the Jeep may be higher still, as it has a wildly
> under square bore and stroke ratio.
> >
> > Manifolds on flatheads are on the same side and short, good for compact
> turbo installation. The exhaust pressure is less than you may suspect, the
> energy of the exhaust gasses is primarily heat. In an enclosed compartment
> always a concern, especially with a lot of joints, but I was kind of
> picturing it out in the slipstream. I am pretty sure someone brought a
> turbocharged Piet to Brodhead in the last decade, but I can't remember who
> it was.
> >
> > Part of the reason why I am optimistic about Kenny's project is thinking
> about A-37 and A-40 Continentals. They are flatheads also, they have less
> cubic inches. They are maybe 80 pounds lighter, but they did fly a lot of
> stuff like J-3s on floats with light people.-ww
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420056#420056
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =============
> >
> >
> >
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | DNA analysis please |
I think I have GN-1. The wings are clipped Cub (aluminum ribs). Was built by
Bob Odegaard in 1991. Started life with A65, now has C-85-12. Still swingin
g same 74x41 McCauley. Will try to get it to Brodhed this year.
About to replace Cub legs, as I am covering a new set. Certainly am enjoying
flying it!
Sent from my iPad
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 25
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Just to clear the Air, I am not taking any of this personally.
This Pietenpol Air-Camper (I use a dash since it is a bastard according to
Oscar;+}) was built from the mid 1960s and flew in 1975. It flew for about
20 years and by all accounts flew quite well.
It is going to be resurrected. My apologies to the Piet Purists, but I am
not going to Go back and rebuilt the cabanes, wing and struts to make this
legitimate.
Oscar has seen this plane and his memory must be shorter than
his.....Grandmother.
I guess at any Pietenpol gathering I will have to land on the back runway
and will have to use the back door to get something to eat. But I am OK
with that. I guess I am like that bastard cousin that just won't go away =)
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 8:52 PM, Brian Kenney <brian.kenney@live.ca> wrote:
> This is my take on this debate. Anyone that is building an aircraft like
> the one we are all interested has much in common. Debating on the
> originality of a particular design is counter productive as all it does is
> subdivide a small group into even smaller groups. I hate when people appear
> to act superior because they think they are more authentic or more pure. I
> know it is human nature but it is stupid. We should embrace all that is
> Pietenpol-like and in doing so we are all better off and that allows us to
> educate all in all the ways of doing this and let them decide what is the
> best way to do something rather than being shamed into like it is some form
> of Victorian racism. Come on people don't be so judgemental, Bernie
> Pietenpol certainly wasn't!
>
> I might be reading this wrong and that might not be the intention but if I
> am taking it that way than so are others!
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2014 20:32:10 -0500
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Which one?
> From: steven.d.dortch@gmail.com
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> 1. Can the angle of the cabanes be changed; i.e., if there were no cabane
> brace struts or cables, can the wing physically be pivoted forward or aft
> by changing the angle of the cabanes? If the answer is 'no', Mr. Pietenpol
> is not the father.
>
> NO, but the bottoms would pivot fore and aft. the tops pivot port and
> starboard. Hybrid.
>
> 2. Do the landing gear leg attach points meet the lower longerons at the
> wing strut attach points, both forward and aft? If the answer is 'no', Mr.
> Pietenpol is not the father.
>
> YES, They do. but the Logbook confesses that they are Cub gear.
>
> 3. Are the tailwheel control cables connected to the bottom of the rudder
> using brackets on the rudder rather than running forward to the rudder
> bar?
>
> NO, the cables go to the rudder on top. There was no steering on the
> tailwheel until John K put it on. It now has a Cessna tailwheel and we
> still have to finish putting in Pulleys and such to complete the tail
> steering.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 8:14 PM, taildrags <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Steve;
>
> I think you can run two quick DNA tests to check for paternity.
>
> 1. Can the angle of the cabanes be changed; i.e., if there were no cabane
> brace struts or cables, can the wing physically be pivoted forward or aft
> by changing the angle of the cabanes? If the answer is 'no', Mr. Pietenpol
> is not the father.
>
> 2. Do the landing gear leg attach points meet the lower longerons at the
> wing strut attach points, both forward and aft? If the answer is 'no', Mr.
> Pietenpol is not the father.
>
> If you're still holding out a thread of hope, you can try one last check
> but it's not definitive: are the tailwheel control cables connected to the
> bottom of the rudder using brackets on the rudder rather than running
> forward to the rudder bar? Grega connected them in that fashion but others
> have used the same method in the interest of eliminating a second set of
> control cables the length of the empennage.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420060#420060
>
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
> ==========
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> ==========
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: DNA analysis please |
Looks like a Piet to me. When you're flying it, what does it look like from
the cockpit. If it looks like, feels like, and flies like fun, then I call
it fun. That's MY test=85 ;)
--
Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
From: "M. Zeke Zechini" <marcus.zechini@gmail.com<mailto:marcus.zechini@gma
il.com>>
>" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>>
etenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: DNA analysis please
I think I have GN-1. The wings are clipped Cub (aluminum ribs). Was built b
y Bob Odegaard in 1991. Started life with A65, now has C-85-12. Still swing
ing same 74x41 McCauley. Will try to get it to Brodhed this year.
About to replace Cub legs, as I am covering a new set. Certainly am enjoyin
g flying it!
[cid:e1842e0b-fc5f-47a7-a304-ef9006fcef05@Enterprise.emory.net]
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: DNA analysis please |
Looks neat. My only complaint is it gets fuzzy when I zoom in.
What advantage to covering the legs? Less drag or just looks?
Steve
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 9:05 PM, M. Zeke Zechini <marcus.zechini@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> I think I have GN-1. The wings are clipped Cub (aluminum ribs). Was built
> by Bob Odegaard in 1991. Started life with A65, now has C-85-12. Still
> swinging same 74x41 McCauley. Will try to get it to Brodhed this year.
> About to replace Cub legs, as I am covering a new set. Certainly am
> enjoying flying it!
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List</a>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com</a>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
>
>
> </b></font></pre>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe? |
Russian GAZ (a Soviet Competitor to the post WWII jeep) is still being made
and uses a 4 calendar diesel with a supercharger. I saw them in Iraq.
Everything on them broke but the tough little engine, tranny brakes and
steering.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>wrote:
> One "hot" setup on a Go-Devil Jeep (circa 1960) was
>
> Dual carbs
>
> compression raised to 7.5 to 1 with Hickey Head
>
> bored to 141 cubic inches.
>
> reground camshaft with proper timing and lift,
>
> and improved headers (20-25% HP increase)
>
>
> These mods were available at one time (1970s) but I am not sure you could
> find them now.
>
>
> Blue Skies,
>
> Steve
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 8:36 PM, Brian Kenney <brian.kenney@live.ca> wrote:
>
>> I think Frank L. from the Milwaukee area put a turbo or supercharger on
>> his Funk? engine. You are probably correct that the exhaust pressure may
>> not be that high but there is still the concern that the exhaust piping and
>> flanges need to be made carefully as most factory turbos are piped with
>> alloy tubing and rightfully so. I personally would not want to fly in a
>> turbo engine aircraft in a tight cowled aircraft with homemade exhaust
>> piping and maybe not even with factory piping because a crack could/would
>> mean a fire. That is just my fear limitation.
>>
>> Flat heads are not that much of a penalty on a slow turning engines and
>> why auto engines don't need overhead cams in direct drive applications on
>> airplanes. The point I was making that to go more power the right direction
>> is to pressurize the intake not to modify it internally.
>>
>> Don't take my comments as a challenge to your knowledge but really to
>> validate what you said and to educate others that might not be so
>> acquainted with the all the limitations.
>>
>> I confess that I don't know much about the engine in question. What will
>> the increased rpm and/or power do to the bottom engine or to the breathing
>> of the engine? I think it has a chance, the question more relates to
>> whether the end result is a one or two seater.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Willys jeep pietenpol engine maybe?
>> > From: WilliamTCA@aol.com
>> > Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2014 16:38:56 -0700
>>
>> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> >
>> WilliamTCA@aol.com>
>> >
>> > Brian,
>> > You are correct on the limits of compression increase on flatheads. The
>> point I was trying to make is that Kenny's HP per cubic inch at 6.5:1
>> should be better than the Ford HP per cubic inch at 4.25 to 5.25:l. The
>> limits for increasing on the Jeep may be higher still, as it has a wildly
>> under square bore and stroke ratio.
>> >
>> > Manifolds on flatheads are on the same side and short, good for compact
>> turbo installation. The exhaust pressure is less than you may suspect, the
>> energy of the exhaust gasses is primarily heat. In an enclosed compartment
>> always a concern, especially with a lot of joints, but I was kind of
>> picturing it out in the slipstream. I am pretty sure someone brought a
>> turbocharged Piet to Brodhead in the last decade, but I can't remember who
>> it was.
>> >
>> > Part of the reason why I am optimistic about Kenny's project is
>> thinking about A-37 and A-40 Continentals. They are flatheads also, they
>> have less cubic inches. They are maybe 80 pounds lighter, but they did fly
>> a lot of stuff like J-3s on floats with light people.-ww
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420056#420056
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > =============
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Vasek's production of Historic Propellers |
Vasic, just a thot. The Russians made a copy of the Ford Model AA truck.
It used a Ford model a Engine. They made 985,000 of them up until 1950.
perhaps you could find one of them.
Steve D
On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Vasek <bigon2@seznam.cz> wrote:
>
> Thank you for the nice words, I very appreciate it. I can post photos of
> some of our interesting projects if you wish. We will have a four-blade
> propeller from R.E.8 soon in the "old style" and a big beautiful Chauvier
e
> prop from D.H.1.
>
>
> > Perhaps your Piet should have some styling to remind us of a pre WWII
> Avia or Letov.
>
>
> It definitely could have! Do you have any suggestions?
>
>
> > Are there any old Waltor Minor engines floating around? they are
> somewhat comparable to at Contental O200 while about 30 pounds heavier.
>
>
> Yes, I think that I could find some, but I have a feedback from a guy who
> had GN-1 that the Walter was too weak. He replaced it with Subaru with a
> reduction drive.
>
>
> > There is no reason that you could not break into the Prop or
> construction business.
>
>
> The question is, would people be interested in these carved propellers? I
> mean, airworthy? Such a prop would be at least three times more expensive
> than it is now.
>
> --------
> My production of WW1 propellers, trophies and constructions:
> =88=BC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419726#419726
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Piet parts for sale |
Hi Tim,
Seems to be a lot of Piet builders in Texas. I don't have the metal
eyebrows that mount to the engine. What I have is the nose bowl and top
cowl...or at least that's what I think it is, now that I think of it is
made of a heavy fabric material. But it has piano hinge on the sides. I'll
get some better pictures and perhaps you can help me identify it. Here's
some pictures I currently have. My phone number is 425-971-5968.
~Brian Durham
425-971-5968
On Mar 7, 2014 12:57 AM, "Timothy Willis" <timwillis01@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brian,
>
> I am interested in your cowl. Please give me your phone # in a direct
> reply and let's discuss. Do you have a nose bowl as well?
>
> Also, do you have diagonal cabanes (from top motor mount to wing attach
> points)?
>
> Tim in central TX
> ==================
>
> Time: 11:35:13 AM PST US
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Wings for Sale + Other Parts
> From: "N219BR" <briankdurham@gmail.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I acquired a Piet that's taking up valuable space right now. I'm looking
> at parting
> it out. I have an A-65 mount/cowl, 3 piece wings, cub gear, fittings, and
> 1.5 Corvair cores, plus lots of assorted odds and ends.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Piet parts for sale |
I forgot to answer your second question. Which is yes I do have the
diagonal bracing.
~Brian Durham
425-971-5968
On Mar 7, 2014 12:57 AM, "Timothy Willis" <timwillis01@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brian,
>
> I am interested in your cowl. Please give me your phone # in a direct
> reply and let's discuss. Do you have a nose bowl as well?
>
> Also, do you have diagonal cabanes (from top motor mount to wing attach
> points)?
>
> Tim in central TX
> ==================
>
> Time: 11:35:13 AM PST US
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Wings for Sale + Other Parts
> From: "N219BR" <briankdurham@gmail.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I acquired a Piet that's taking up valuable space right now. I'm looking
> at parting
> it out. I have an A-65 mount/cowl, 3 piece wings, cub gear, fittings, and
> 1.5 Corvair cores, plus lots of assorted odds and ends.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair engine core |
Bill,
Glad you are headed to Corvair college #29. If you have not landed an engine core
yet, here is a tool that you may not have seen before. In 10 minutes of looking
with it I found this lead 155 miles from your house in Greenville SC:
1966 4 door corvair, auto matic, for parts or restore, cant text pictures
864-915-6395
The site is http://www.searchtempest.com/. (You can find it by goggling "Search Tempest Craigslist") It is a search engine that looks on all the Craigslists for you in any specified radius from your home zip code. I have used it to find all kinds of stuff, I have found it more productive than Ebay or Corsa. Email me privately if you have not found a core before the college.-ww.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420075#420075
Message 33
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| Subject: | DNA analysis please |
The landing gear/lower wing strut fittings look like GN-1 fittings. The
rear landing gear attachment is forward of the rear cabain which is common
on a GN-1 but not on the Pietenpol. What is not typical of a GN-1 is the
rear wing strut attaching to the rear gear location. I'm guessing that this
makes your wing struts are not parallel. Mr. Grega recommended using a Cub
wing and landing gear on the GN-1. The attachment for the rudder cables are
below the stabilizer which is where the GN-1 mounting point is. Most of the
other differences between a GN-1 and a Pietenpol are in the metal fittings
and the fully sheeted fuselage. Both of which cannot be seen in the
picture. My guess though is this is a GN-1.
This whole conversation about TRUE Pietenpols comes up frequently. I think
what really irritates the purists is to call all the various look-a-likes a
Pietenpol. Be true to the design and call it a GN-1 which is inspired by the
Pietenpol. But in the end it really doesn't matter what it is as long as
you like it. And it sounds like you do.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of M. Zeke
Zechini
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 7:05 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: DNA analysis please
I think I have GN-1. The wings are clipped Cub (aluminum ribs). Was built by
Bob Odegaard in 1991. Started life with A65, now has C-85-12. Still swinging
same 74x41 McCauley. Will try to get it to Brodhed this year.
About to replace Cub legs, as I am covering a new set. Certainly am enjoying
flying it!
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