Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:54 AM - Re: DNA analysis please (Marcus Zechini)
2. 04:04 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage Width....Curmudeon/purist alert...scramble to fill power vacuum (danhelsper@aol.com)
3. 04:40 AM - Re: Fuselage Width....Curmudeon/purist alert...scramble to fill (Don Emch)
4. 06:43 AM - crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... (Douwe Blumberg)
5. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: Which one? (Michael Perez)
6. 07:01 AM - Re: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... (Steven Dortch)
7. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: Which one? (Steven Dortch)
8. 07:38 AM - Re: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... (Jack Phillips)
9. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Which one? (Marcus Zechini)
10. 08:16 AM - Re: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... (Gardiner Mason)
11. 09:15 AM - Re: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... (William Wynne)
12. 11:11 AM - Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear (aerocarjake)
13. 11:56 AM - Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear (echobravo4)
14. 12:14 PM - Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear (Jack Phillips)
15. 03:31 PM - Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear (William Wynne)
16. 05:52 PM - Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear (aerocarjake)
17. 08:00 PM - Re: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear (Steven Dortch)
18. 09:17 PM - Re: Fuselage Width....Curmudeon/purist alert...scramble to fill (aviken)
19. 09:24 PM - looking to trade for a Pietenpol (Oscar Zuniga)
20. 10:02 PM - Re: Speaking of Doc... (William Wynne)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: DNA analysis please |
I do enjoy!! I noticed a lot of Piets have brace from firewall to top of
front cabane. I do not, AND I have a passenger door.
I will have to see where GN-1s differ in extra plywood & check mine.
I have a set of plans. I have a extra rib from Michael Brusilow's Mr. Sam.
Just may build one day. Need to be retired, though.
-Zeke
On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 12:26 AM, Chris <catdesigns@att.net> wrote:
>
> The landing gear/lower wing strut fittings look like GN-1 fittings. The
> rear landing gear attachment is forward of the rear cabain which is common
> on a GN-1 but not on the Pietenpol. What is not typical of a GN-1 is the
> rear wing strut attaching to the rear gear location. I'm guessing that this
> makes your wing struts are not parallel. Mr. Grega recommended using a Cub
> wing and landing gear on the GN-1. The attachment for the rudder cables are
> below the stabilizer which is where the GN-1 mounting point is. Most of
> the
> other differences between a GN-1 and a Pietenpol are in the metal fittings
> and the fully sheeted fuselage. Both of which cannot be seen in the
> picture. My guess though is this is a GN-1.
>
> This whole conversation about TRUE Pietenpols comes up frequently. I think
> what really irritates the purists is to call all the various look-a-likes a
> Pietenpol. Be true to the design and call it a GN-1 which is inspired by
> the
> Pietenpol. But in the end it really doesn't matter what it is as long as
> you like it. And it sounds like you do.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of M. Zeke
> Zechini
> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 7:05 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: DNA analysis please
>
>
> I think I have GN-1. The wings are clipped Cub (aluminum ribs). Was built
> by
> Bob Odegaard in 1991. Started life with A65, now has C-85-12. Still
> swinging
> same 74x41 McCauley. Will try to get it to Brodhed this year.
> About to replace Cub legs, as I am covering a new set. Certainly am
> enjoying
> flying it!
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage Width....Curmudeon/purist alert...scramble |
to fill power vacuum
John,
Before you make a mistake you might regret forever, please check the plans,
which call for 7/32" floor thickness. 3/8" would be overkill and add unnec
essary weight. I myself would never deviate from the plans (unless the chan
ges were really necessary or cool-looking) used 1/4" since that is what was
available.
There seems to be a real power vacuum on this list since the "resignation".
I am sure it will all be sorted out in due time. Applications for the Boar
d of Curmudgeons are still being accepted. But, in the end, the purists wil
l prevail, as they rightly always do.
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: john francis <Mrkringles@msn.com>
Sent: Sun, Mar 9, 2014 9:00 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Width
Tomorrow it may get to 60 degrees here. I am hoping to begin to glue the fu
se
sides together. I looked at a lot of pictures on westcoastpiet and it appe
ars
people start all over the place. I think the front two connectors are not
put
into place because of the addition of the engine mount later? Some add the
3/8's plywood floor before adding the additional connectors while others ad
d the
connectors first then lay the flooring on top. What should I not do when
connecting the fuselage together that would cause problems later?
Thanks,
John
--------
John Francis
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420065#420065
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage Width....Curmudeon/purist alert...scramble |
to fill
Dan,
Thank you very much for the Curmudgeon Alert. I would absolutely agree with you.
Stick with 7/32" or the more common 1/4". I do, however, have a purist confession
to make. I built my fuselage while I was in college. A friend gave
me a fantastic deal on space in his hangar so I was able to build. When I got
to the point of adding the floor to the fuselage I was really scraping pennies.
I searched around and actually found a plywood importer in Baltimore that
dealt with aircraft plywood at a great price. So I skipped classes one day and
left at 4:00am on the 16 hour roundtrip drive to Baltimore in my old beat up
Ford Escort. When I finally arrived (this was pre GPS and internet days) I went
to the dock to pick up my beautiful sheet of 1/4" 4' x 8' mahogany plywood
only to find that it was 3/8"! Well since I had spent the next several weeks
of food money and rent on gas and plywood I couldn't possibly imagine wasting
the trip. I went back to my car and did a quick calculation and found that by
making the floor out of 3/8", I'd add about 5lbs to my Piet. After thinking
it over for a while I decided it was worth it. So I tied the sheet of plywood
to the roof and watched it slap my Escort for the next 8 hours. It only slid
off once, while on the beltway around Washington D.C. Amazingly it wasn't damaged!
So.... I now have to live with a 626 lb. Piet instead of a 621lb. Piet.
Was the 5 lbs. worth it? Absolutely! I got to go back home and glue my floor
on... and tell the story!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420083#420083
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Subject: | crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... |
My $.02 on the whole purity issue is this. (not that anyone really cares)
My hat is off, big time, to anyone with the gumption to finish a
scratch-built stick and fabric airplane and actually FLY it successfully.
It takes a unique person to accomplish such a goal, and there are fewer and
fewer of them around in this country.
I AM all about being smart in your decisions and modifications, but I still
must respect the person the person's perseverance who actually finishes a
plane EVEN if it's filled with bone-headed "improvements" and flies like
crap and becomes a "Barnstormers.com queen". They weren't wise, but they
actually DID something pretty hard to do. I don't respect their "common
sense" but I certainly can respect the fact that they finished it.
Just because of simple historicity, I think a plane should be labeled
accurately. A Grega is a Grega, a Pietenpol is a Pietenpol, a combination
of both is an "unnamed experimental" inspired by both.
I do think we can start sounding pretty silly when we can't call a Pietenpol
and Pietenpol because it uses motorcycle wheels rather than original Jenny
wheels, or ply leading edges rather than oatmeal box cardboard scrounged
from the dump at midnight.
Douwe
Message 5
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"...This is my take on-this-debate. Anyone that is building an aircraft
like the one we are all interested has much in common. Debating on the =0A
originality of a particular design is counter productive as all it does =0A
is subdivide a small group into-even smaller groups. I hate when people
=0Aappear to act superior because they think they are more authentic or =0A
more pure. I know it is human nature but it is stupid. We should embrace al
l that is Pietenpol-like and in doing so we are all better off and =0Athat
allows us to educate all in-all the ways--of doing this and let =0Ath
em decide what is the best way to do something rather than being =0Ashamed
into like it is some form of Victorian racism. Come on- people =0Adon't b
e so judgemental, Bernie Pietenpol certainly wasn't!=0A-=0AI might be rea
ding this wrong and that might not be the intention but if I am taking it t
hat way than so are others!..."=0A=0A=0A=0AAmen.=0A-=0A=0AIf God is your
co-pilot...switch seats.=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretake
r Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com=0A
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... |
Douwe, I care!
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Pieten-Grega Air-Camper
Message 7
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Michael, how about at any Piet gathering we line them up starting with an
origional build by Mr. Pietenpol and as they change from his 1929 design we
push them further down the line. At least until they start to look like
Flybabys!
Just having fun. I plan on calling mine a Pietenpol Air-Camper with Grega
like "improvements" (I did that just to prod people) and flying it anyhow.
I guess I will have to park in the back 40 where they drink Pabst Blue
Ribbon and moonshine.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 8
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Subject: | crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... |
Hear, Hear, Douwe!
I agree. As Larry Williams (ex Top Curmudgeon) once begrudgingly admitted
"We're all Snowflakes!"
Now enough discussion on this. If you have a flying Pietenpol (of whatever
persuasion) go fly it now that the weather is finally becoming spring-like.
If you are building one, then get into your shop and make some sawdust! I'm
going to spend the day dragging all the crap that has accumulated in my
hangar out of the way so I can get the Piet out and fly it today.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe
Blumberg
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 9:45 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity...
My $.02 on the whole purity issue is this. (not that anyone really cares)
My hat is off, big time, to anyone with the gumption to finish a
scratch-built stick and fabric airplane and actually FLY it successfully.
It takes a unique person to accomplish such a goal, and there are fewer and
fewer of them around in this country.
I AM all about being smart in your decisions and modifications, but I still
must respect the person the person's perseverance who actually finishes a
plane EVEN if it's filled with bone-headed "improvements" and flies like
crap and becomes a "Barnstormers.com queen". They weren't wise, but they
actually DID something pretty hard to do. I don't respect their "common
sense" but I certainly can respect the fact that they finished it.
Just because of simple historicity, I think a plane should be labeled
accurately. A Grega is a Grega, a Pietenpol is a Pietenpol, a combination
of both is an "unnamed experimental" inspired by both.
I do think we can start sounding pretty silly when we can't call a Pietenpol
and Pietenpol because it uses motorcycle wheels rather than original Jenny
wheels, or ply leading edges rather than oatmeal box cardboard scrounged
from the dump at midnight.
Douwe
Message 9
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Steve:
I like PBR. Wil make room for some in front cockpit.
G.O.B from Virginny, Zeke
On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Steven Dortch
<steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>wrote:
> Michael, how about at any Piet gathering we line them up starting with an
> origional build by Mr. Pietenpol and as they change from his 1929 design we
> push them further down the line. At least until they start to look like
> Flybabys!
>
> Just having fun. I plan on calling mine a Pietenpol Air-Camper with Grega
> like "improvements" (I did that just to prod people) and flying it anyhow.
> I guess I will have to park in the back 40 where they drink Pabst Blue
> Ribbon and moonshine.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... |
Well said Douwe. How about those of us who elected to widen the fuselage ,or
a different tail wheel. It still looks like a Piet and you can,t tell the 2
inch wider fiuse by looking at it. Gardiner
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 10, 2014, at 9:44 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net> w
rote:
> My $.02 on the whole purity issue is this (not that anyone really
cares)
>
> My hat is off, big time, to anyone with the gumption to finish a scratch-b
uilt stick and fabric airplane and actually FLY it successfully. It takes a
unique person to accomplish such a goal, and there are fewer and fewer of t
hem around in this country.
>
> I AM all about being smart in your decisions and modifications, but I stil
l must respect the person the person=99s perseverance who actually fin
ishes a plane EVEN if it=99s filled with bone-headed =9Cimprovem
ents=9D and flies like crap and becomes a =9CBarnstormers.com qu
een=9D. They weren=99t wise, but they actually DID something pr
etty hard to do. I don=99t respect their =9Ccommon sense=9D
but I certainly can respect the fact that they finished it.
>
> Just because of simple historicity, I think a plane should be labeled accu
rately. A Grega is a Grega, a Pietenpol is a Pietenpol, a combination of bo
th is an =9Cunnamed experimental=9D inspired by both.
>
> I do think we can start sounding pretty silly when we can=99t call a
Pietenpol and Pietenpol because it uses motorcycle wheels rather than origi
nal Jenny wheels, or ply leading edges rather than oatmeal box cardboard scr
ounged from the dump at midnight
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... |
Douwe,
I admire your plane, your art and your thoughts. Let me add $.01 to the comments
on people being persistent enough to finish a plane.
To finish a plane, it is a requirement that a builder not listen to all the people
who tell him he will fail or is doing things wrong. In a 6 year build this
might mean ignoring several hundred people, mostly obviously playing the role
of 'Eeyore', but others who pose as' friendly' advisors. Ignore every one of
them, keep working, and the plane will get done.
Is this the definition of successful homebuilding? I say it isn't. Completing the
plane isn't success, learning is. A guy who listens to no one learns nothing
and often creates the poor flying hangar queen you mention. His completed plane
might be a rarity, but the mindset of not being willing to consider anything
that might evolve one's views is quite common today.
My definition of success is the guy who finishes the plane, ignores the 98% of
the people who are negative, but learns from 4 or 5 trusted advisors who get him
to consider things that make his plane far better than it would have been.
This guy not only has a good flying plane, has learned a lot, he also has trusted
friends and is in a position to share something. The actual rarity in society
is not the bullheaded man who will not stop, it is the man wise enough to
listen, examine evidence, and change his perspective if it improves what he is
making.
The biggest between a poor plane for sale on barnstormers with 2 hours on it and
a great one sitting at Brodhead with 500 hours on the tach is mostly in the
mindset of the builder. Both planes are made of roughly the same quantity of wood,
metal and fabric, and the likely took about the same effort to build. The
difference is mostly in what the builder was willing to learn.
The barnstormer plane, and the dozens like it that were never completed are not
a good use of materials nor human time. They are not art either. If I want art,
I can study and be moved by the work of Douwe or Felix de Weldon.-ww.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420099#420099
Message 12
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Subject: | Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear |
Hello good Piet-ple,
It was a LONG weekend in the shop and I thought I'd post a few photos of the progress.
I am making the steel-tube Piet with the "improved" landing gear. I have
jigged the axles and vee in place for the welder who will stop over on March
21st. I had seen some photos of landing gear that were made with a somewhat
different cluster joint where the axle meets the vee. This allows me to use a
conduit pipe to hold the axles in line while they are welded. I marked the location
of the "fishmouth" cutout, drilled a series of small holes, then cut between
the dots to remove the metal. I cleaned it up with an angle grinder until
the axles fit.
It was a long several days to get all these parts jigged and cut/fit - yet it's
a nice feeling of satisfaction now that this step has been completed.
Hope you all are doing well......
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420106#420106
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_a_856.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_b_189.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_c_696.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_d_470.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_e_702.jpg
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear |
Wow!
Very nice work!
--------
Earl Brown
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I
intended to be.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420110#420110
Message 14
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Subject: | Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear |
Looks really nice, Jake
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of aerocarjake
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:08 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear
Hello good Piet-ple,
It was a LONG weekend in the shop and I thought I'd post a few photos of the
progress. I am making the steel-tube Piet with the "improved" landing gear.
I have jigged the axles and vee in place for the welder who will stop over
on March 21st. I had seen some photos of landing gear that were made with a
somewhat different cluster joint where the axle meets the vee. This allows
me to use a conduit pipe to hold the axles in line while they are welded. I
marked the location of the "fishmouth" cutout, drilled a series of small
holes, then cut between the dots to remove the metal. I cleaned it up with
an angle grinder until the axles fit.
It was a long several days to get all these parts jigged and cut/fit - yet
it's a nice feeling of satisfaction now that this step has been completed.
Hope you all are doing well......
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420106#420106
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_a_856.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_b_189.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_c_696.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_d_470.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_e_702.jpg
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear |
Jake,
You have a very nice looking fuselage, it certainly will make for a stout plane.
Your photos caught my eye because I have Terry Hand's fuselage in my hangar
getting the same task done. Terry's fuselage looks to be a pretty close clone
of yours. It is hard to tell anything exact in a picture, but Terry's is a short
fuselage right out of the F&G manual.
I wanted to point out that during the Weight and Balance project we took the exact axle location of each plane. Most builders had given little thought to axle location, combining 1930s axle location with modern powerful brakes. In the article series we spent some effort to show that BHP's planes with brakes moved the axle well forward, to within 1/2" of the leading edge. His only later comment was that 0 to 3" behind the leading edge with the plane level was a good range. If you would like to get copies of the info before finish welding, read: http://flycorvair.net/2014/03/08/pietenpol-weight-and-balance-article-source/
Terry's plane came with a set of legs that would have put the axle 7.5" behind the leading edge. As he is planning on using 6x6 Cleveland hyd. drums off a Pacer, I opted to cut up the legs and scrap them, building new ones that moved the axle to BHP's recommended zone for Piets with brakes. Terry's gear is being finished with this kind of spring: http://flycorvair.net/2012/10/27/new-die-spring-landing-gear-on-a-pietenpol-10-a-m-4-p-m/
The data from the W&B project showed the reason why more Piets with strong brakes
and aft axles don't end up on their backs: Many of the same planes have terrible
aft CG conditions. At this point, your plane can easily have everything
correct, there isn't any reason to have it other than BHP intended.
Although I have seen the plans work countless times, most welding detail design
manuals have better ways to attach the small thick wall tubes for the bolts to
the main tubes. Look at AC-43-13 and particularly the EAA book on welding. They
involve a better load path into the main tube. Powerful brakes and paved runways
put a load on the attachments not envisioned in 1930.-ww
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420112#420112
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Subject: | Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear |
Thanks WW.... I met you briefly at OSH w/ Terry. He has been out to see my project
several times. I did move the axles 3 1/2 inches forward because of your w&b
articles. Sure would not want to do that as a retrofit later. I plan to have
a bracket at the base of the bee at the axle which I have seen versions of on
other similar birds.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some more research.
I'd like my gear to be stout for any eventual "less than ideal" landings - ha!
Thx.....
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420113#420113
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear |
Just went out and took a look at mine. The gear looks plenty forward.
Cessna 120/140s had a metal strap modification to move the landing gear
forward about 5 inches or so. It looked strange but dramatically reduced
the noseover rate.
Some would tweak the landing gear forward about 3 inches
I have heard that on Stearman Biplanes they replace the stock brakes with
Jeep (Yes WWII or CJ5) brakes. They were inefficient and as a result
lowered the rate of noseovers.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 7:52 PM, aerocarjake <flight.jake@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
>
> Thanks WW.... I met you briefly at OSH w/ Terry. He has been out to see my
> project several times. I did move the axles 3 1/2 inches forward because of
> your w&b articles. Sure would not want to do that as a retrofit later. I
> plan to have a bracket at the base of the bee at the axle which I have seen
> versions of on other similar birds.
>
> Thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some more research.
>
> I'd like my gear to be stout for any eventual "less than ideal" landings -
> ha!
>
> Thx.....
>
> --------
> Jake Schultz - curator,
> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420113#420113
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage Width....Curmudeon/purist alert...scramble |
to fill
Sometimes : as they say , even a blind hog will find an acorn . Well I guess I
found my acorn. I fretted about my sheet of 7/32 ply that I had paid a huge
sum of dough for only to see that most builders use 1/4 on the floor. I finally
said ,"the hell with it" and used it anyway. Now I find I am in good stead
with powers of Curmudeondum. What a nice discovery!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420120#420120
Message 19
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Subject: | looking to trade for a Pietenpol |
If you happen to have a flying Piet in the southern California area (or wit
hin a few hundred miles of it) and want to trade for an LSA Pulsar 1 projec
t that isn't flying yet but is fairly complete=2C you can check out this li
nk:
http://www.contactmagazine.com/Classifieds/Pulsar-1.html
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
Medford=2C OR
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Speaking of Doc... |
Kevin, here is one of my favorite moments with Doc:
At Oshkosh 10 or 12 years ago, we are trying to drive in through the inner gate,
but we don't have the right pass. Doc is at the wheel of his old Taurus wagon,
and he tells me this will not be a problem.
As we are in line, Doc explains that getting past the guards is a complex equation
of speed, proximity and the right wave. You must drive in fast enough they
will not stop you, but not so fast to alarm them; you must drive close enough
to them that they are more concerned about taking a step back than getting a
look for your pass; and you have to wave just so, so they feel socially obligated
to return it, but you don't make solid eye contact. Each of these must be
adjusted for the individual guards on hand taking in to account their age and
fitness, the time of day, weather, angle of the sun, etc.
With our particular point of entry the magic combination was about 12mph and 16
inches to the guard. Doc waved just so, and the woman awkwardly waved as she
was stepping back, The two other guards waved as if some VIP they should have
known just drove past. Doc looked straight ahead and we drove right in.
When we were clear by 50 yards, Doc looked over at me with a smile and said just
like Alec Guinness, "These aren't the droids your looking for." -ww
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420124#420124
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