---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/10/14: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:54 AM - Re: DNA analysis please (Marcus Zechini) 2. 04:04 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage Width....Curmudeon/purist alert...scramble to fill power vacuum (danhelsper@aol.com) 3. 04:40 AM - Re: Fuselage Width....Curmudeon/purist alert...scramble to fill (Don Emch) 4. 06:43 AM - crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... (Douwe Blumberg) 5. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: Which one? (Michael Perez) 6. 07:01 AM - Re: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... (Steven Dortch) 7. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: Which one? (Steven Dortch) 8. 07:38 AM - Re: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... (Jack Phillips) 9. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Which one? (Marcus Zechini) 10. 08:16 AM - Re: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... (Gardiner Mason) 11. 09:15 AM - Re: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... (William Wynne) 12. 11:11 AM - Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear (aerocarjake) 13. 11:56 AM - Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear (echobravo4) 14. 12:14 PM - Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear (Jack Phillips) 15. 03:31 PM - Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear (William Wynne) 16. 05:52 PM - Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear (aerocarjake) 17. 08:00 PM - Re: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear (Steven Dortch) 18. 09:17 PM - Re: Fuselage Width....Curmudeon/purist alert...scramble to fill (aviken) 19. 09:24 PM - looking to trade for a Pietenpol (Oscar Zuniga) 20. 10:02 PM - Re: Speaking of Doc... (William Wynne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:40 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: DNA analysis please From: Marcus Zechini I do enjoy!! I noticed a lot of Piets have brace from firewall to top of front cabane. I do not, AND I have a passenger door. I will have to see where GN-1s differ in extra plywood & check mine. I have a set of plans. I have a extra rib from Michael Brusilow's Mr. Sam. Just may build one day. Need to be retired, though. -Zeke On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 12:26 AM, Chris wrote: > > The landing gear/lower wing strut fittings look like GN-1 fittings. The > rear landing gear attachment is forward of the rear cabain which is common > on a GN-1 but not on the Pietenpol. What is not typical of a GN-1 is the > rear wing strut attaching to the rear gear location. I'm guessing that this > makes your wing struts are not parallel. Mr. Grega recommended using a Cub > wing and landing gear on the GN-1. The attachment for the rudder cables are > below the stabilizer which is where the GN-1 mounting point is. Most of > the > other differences between a GN-1 and a Pietenpol are in the metal fittings > and the fully sheeted fuselage. Both of which cannot be seen in the > picture. My guess though is this is a GN-1. > > This whole conversation about TRUE Pietenpols comes up frequently. I think > what really irritates the purists is to call all the various look-a-likes a > Pietenpol. Be true to the design and call it a GN-1 which is inspired by > the > Pietenpol. But in the end it really doesn't matter what it is as long as > you like it. And it sounds like you do. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of M. Zeke > Zechini > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 7:05 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: DNA analysis please > > > I think I have GN-1. The wings are clipped Cub (aluminum ribs). Was built > by > Bob Odegaard in 1991. Started life with A65, now has C-85-12. Still > swinging > same 74x41 McCauley. Will try to get it to Brodhed this year. > About to replace Cub legs, as I am covering a new set. Certainly am > enjoying > flying it! > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Width....Curmudeon/purist alert...scramble to fill power vacuum From: danhelsper@aol.com John, Before you make a mistake you might regret forever, please check the plans, which call for 7/32" floor thickness. 3/8" would be overkill and add unnec essary weight. I myself would never deviate from the plans (unless the chan ges were really necessary or cool-looking) used 1/4" since that is what was available. There seems to be a real power vacuum on this list since the "resignation". I am sure it will all be sorted out in due time. Applications for the Boar d of Curmudgeons are still being accepted. But, in the end, the purists wil l prevail, as they rightly always do. Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: john francis Sent: Sun, Mar 9, 2014 9:00 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Width Tomorrow it may get to 60 degrees here. I am hoping to begin to glue the fu se sides together. I looked at a lot of pictures on westcoastpiet and it appe ars people start all over the place. I think the front two connectors are not put into place because of the addition of the engine mount later? Some add the 3/8's plywood floor before adding the additional connectors while others ad d the connectors first then lay the flooring on top. What should I not do when connecting the fuselage together that would cause problems later? Thanks, John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420065#420065 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:26 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Width....Curmudeon/purist alert...scramble to fill From: "Don Emch" Dan, Thank you very much for the Curmudgeon Alert. I would absolutely agree with you. Stick with 7/32" or the more common 1/4". I do, however, have a purist confession to make. I built my fuselage while I was in college. A friend gave me a fantastic deal on space in his hangar so I was able to build. When I got to the point of adding the floor to the fuselage I was really scraping pennies. I searched around and actually found a plywood importer in Baltimore that dealt with aircraft plywood at a great price. So I skipped classes one day and left at 4:00am on the 16 hour roundtrip drive to Baltimore in my old beat up Ford Escort. When I finally arrived (this was pre GPS and internet days) I went to the dock to pick up my beautiful sheet of 1/4" 4' x 8' mahogany plywood only to find that it was 3/8"! Well since I had spent the next several weeks of food money and rent on gas and plywood I couldn't possibly imagine wasting the trip. I went back to my car and did a quick calculation and found that by making the floor out of 3/8", I'd add about 5lbs to my Piet. After thinking it over for a while I decided it was worth it. So I tied the sheet of plywood to the roof and watched it slap my Escort for the next 8 hours. It only slid off once, while on the beltway around Washington D.C. Amazingly it wasn't damaged! So.... I now have to live with a 626 lb. Piet instead of a 621lb. Piet. Was the 5 lbs. worth it? Absolutely! I got to go back home and glue my floor on... and tell the story! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420083#420083 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:18 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... My $.02 on the whole purity issue is this. (not that anyone really cares) My hat is off, big time, to anyone with the gumption to finish a scratch-built stick and fabric airplane and actually FLY it successfully. It takes a unique person to accomplish such a goal, and there are fewer and fewer of them around in this country. I AM all about being smart in your decisions and modifications, but I still must respect the person the person's perseverance who actually finishes a plane EVEN if it's filled with bone-headed "improvements" and flies like crap and becomes a "Barnstormers.com queen". They weren't wise, but they actually DID something pretty hard to do. I don't respect their "common sense" but I certainly can respect the fact that they finished it. Just because of simple historicity, I think a plane should be labeled accurately. A Grega is a Grega, a Pietenpol is a Pietenpol, a combination of both is an "unnamed experimental" inspired by both. I do think we can start sounding pretty silly when we can't call a Pietenpol and Pietenpol because it uses motorcycle wheels rather than original Jenny wheels, or ply leading edges rather than oatmeal box cardboard scrounged from the dump at midnight. Douwe ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:45 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Which one? "...This is my take on-this-debate. Anyone that is building an aircraft like the one we are all interested has much in common. Debating on the =0A originality of a particular design is counter productive as all it does =0A is subdivide a small group into-even smaller groups. I hate when people =0Aappear to act superior because they think they are more authentic or =0A more pure. I know it is human nature but it is stupid. We should embrace al l that is Pietenpol-like and in doing so we are all better off and =0Athat allows us to educate all in-all the ways--of doing this and let =0Ath em decide what is the best way to do something rather than being =0Ashamed into like it is some form of Victorian racism. Come on- people =0Adon't b e so judgemental, Bernie Pietenpol certainly wasn't!=0A-=0AI might be rea ding this wrong and that might not be the intention but if I am taking it t hat way than so are others!..."=0A=0A=0A=0AAmen.=0A-=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot...switch seats.=0AMichael Perez=0APietenpol HINT Videos=0AKaretake r Aero=0Awww.karetakeraero.com=0A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... From: Steven Dortch Douwe, I care! Blue Skies, Steve D Pieten-Grega Air-Camper ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Which one? From: Steven Dortch Michael, how about at any Piet gathering we line them up starting with an origional build by Mr. Pietenpol and as they change from his 1929 design we push them further down the line. At least until they start to look like Flybabys! Just having fun. I plan on calling mine a Pietenpol Air-Camper with Grega like "improvements" (I did that just to prod people) and flying it anyhow. I guess I will have to park in the back 40 where they drink Pabst Blue Ribbon and moonshine. Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:55 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... Hear, Hear, Douwe! I agree. As Larry Williams (ex Top Curmudgeon) once begrudgingly admitted "We're all Snowflakes!" Now enough discussion on this. If you have a flying Pietenpol (of whatever persuasion) go fly it now that the weather is finally becoming spring-like. If you are building one, then get into your shop and make some sawdust! I'm going to spend the day dragging all the crap that has accumulated in my hangar out of the way so I can get the Piet out and fly it today. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 9:45 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... My $.02 on the whole purity issue is this. (not that anyone really cares) My hat is off, big time, to anyone with the gumption to finish a scratch-built stick and fabric airplane and actually FLY it successfully. It takes a unique person to accomplish such a goal, and there are fewer and fewer of them around in this country. I AM all about being smart in your decisions and modifications, but I still must respect the person the person's perseverance who actually finishes a plane EVEN if it's filled with bone-headed "improvements" and flies like crap and becomes a "Barnstormers.com queen". They weren't wise, but they actually DID something pretty hard to do. I don't respect their "common sense" but I certainly can respect the fact that they finished it. Just because of simple historicity, I think a plane should be labeled accurately. A Grega is a Grega, a Pietenpol is a Pietenpol, a combination of both is an "unnamed experimental" inspired by both. I do think we can start sounding pretty silly when we can't call a Pietenpol and Pietenpol because it uses motorcycle wheels rather than original Jenny wheels, or ply leading edges rather than oatmeal box cardboard scrounged from the dump at midnight. Douwe ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Which one? From: Marcus Zechini Steve: I like PBR. Wil make room for some in front cockpit. G.O.B from Virginny, Zeke On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Michael, how about at any Piet gathering we line them up starting with an > origional build by Mr. Pietenpol and as they change from his 1929 design we > push them further down the line. At least until they start to look like > Flybabys! > > Just having fun. I plan on calling mine a Pietenpol Air-Camper with Grega > like "improvements" (I did that just to prod people) and flying it anyhow. > I guess I will have to park in the back 40 where they drink Pabst Blue > Ribbon and moonshine. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... From: Gardiner Mason Well said Douwe. How about those of us who elected to widen the fuselage ,or a different tail wheel. It still looks like a Piet and you can,t tell the 2 inch wider fiuse by looking at it. Gardiner Sent from my iPad On Mar 10, 2014, at 9:44 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" w rote: > My $.02 on the whole purity issue is this (not that anyone really cares) > > My hat is off, big time, to anyone with the gumption to finish a scratch-b uilt stick and fabric airplane and actually FLY it successfully. It takes a unique person to accomplish such a goal, and there are fewer and fewer of t hem around in this country. > > I AM all about being smart in your decisions and modifications, but I stil l must respect the person the person=99s perseverance who actually fin ishes a plane EVEN if it=99s filled with bone-headed =9Cimprovem ents=9D and flies like crap and becomes a =9CBarnstormers.com qu een=9D. They weren=99t wise, but they actually DID something pr etty hard to do. I don=99t respect their =9Ccommon sense=9D but I certainly can respect the fact that they finished it. > > Just because of simple historicity, I think a plane should be labeled accu rately. A Grega is a Grega, a Pietenpol is a Pietenpol, a combination of bo th is an =9Cunnamed experimental=9D inspired by both. > > I do think we can start sounding pretty silly when we can=99t call a Pietenpol and Pietenpol because it uses motorcycle wheels rather than origi nal Jenny wheels, or ply leading edges rather than oatmeal box cardboard scr ounged from the dump at midnight > > Douwe > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:43 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: crisp and clean Pietenpol purity... From: "William Wynne" Douwe, I admire your plane, your art and your thoughts. Let me add $.01 to the comments on people being persistent enough to finish a plane. To finish a plane, it is a requirement that a builder not listen to all the people who tell him he will fail or is doing things wrong. In a 6 year build this might mean ignoring several hundred people, mostly obviously playing the role of 'Eeyore', but others who pose as' friendly' advisors. Ignore every one of them, keep working, and the plane will get done. Is this the definition of successful homebuilding? I say it isn't. Completing the plane isn't success, learning is. A guy who listens to no one learns nothing and often creates the poor flying hangar queen you mention. His completed plane might be a rarity, but the mindset of not being willing to consider anything that might evolve one's views is quite common today. My definition of success is the guy who finishes the plane, ignores the 98% of the people who are negative, but learns from 4 or 5 trusted advisors who get him to consider things that make his plane far better than it would have been. This guy not only has a good flying plane, has learned a lot, he also has trusted friends and is in a position to share something. The actual rarity in society is not the bullheaded man who will not stop, it is the man wise enough to listen, examine evidence, and change his perspective if it improves what he is making. The biggest between a poor plane for sale on barnstormers with 2 hours on it and a great one sitting at Brodhead with 500 hours on the tach is mostly in the mindset of the builder. Both planes are made of roughly the same quantity of wood, metal and fabric, and the likely took about the same effort to build. The difference is mostly in what the builder was willing to learn. The barnstormer plane, and the dozens like it that were never completed are not a good use of materials nor human time. They are not art either. If I want art, I can study and be moved by the work of Douwe or Felix de Weldon.-ww. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420099#420099 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:10 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear From: "aerocarjake" Hello good Piet-ple, It was a LONG weekend in the shop and I thought I'd post a few photos of the progress. I am making the steel-tube Piet with the "improved" landing gear. I have jigged the axles and vee in place for the welder who will stop over on March 21st. I had seen some photos of landing gear that were made with a somewhat different cluster joint where the axle meets the vee. This allows me to use a conduit pipe to hold the axles in line while they are welded. I marked the location of the "fishmouth" cutout, drilled a series of small holes, then cut between the dots to remove the metal. I cleaned it up with an angle grinder until the axles fit. It was a long several days to get all these parts jigged and cut/fit - yet it's a nice feeling of satisfaction now that this step has been completed. Hope you all are doing well...... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420106#420106 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_a_856.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_b_189.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_c_696.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_d_470.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_e_702.jpg ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear From: "echobravo4" Wow! Very nice work! -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420110#420110 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:29 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear Looks really nice, Jake Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of aerocarjake Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 2:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear Hello good Piet-ple, It was a LONG weekend in the shop and I thought I'd post a few photos of the progress. I am making the steel-tube Piet with the "improved" landing gear. I have jigged the axles and vee in place for the welder who will stop over on March 21st. I had seen some photos of landing gear that were made with a somewhat different cluster joint where the axle meets the vee. This allows me to use a conduit pipe to hold the axles in line while they are welded. I marked the location of the "fishmouth" cutout, drilled a series of small holes, then cut between the dots to remove the metal. I cleaned it up with an angle grinder until the axles fit. It was a long several days to get all these parts jigged and cut/fit - yet it's a nice feeling of satisfaction now that this step has been completed. Hope you all are doing well...... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420106#420106 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_a_856.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_b_189.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_c_696.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_d_470.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_e_702.jpg ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:25 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear From: "William Wynne" Jake, You have a very nice looking fuselage, it certainly will make for a stout plane. Your photos caught my eye because I have Terry Hand's fuselage in my hangar getting the same task done. Terry's fuselage looks to be a pretty close clone of yours. It is hard to tell anything exact in a picture, but Terry's is a short fuselage right out of the F&G manual. I wanted to point out that during the Weight and Balance project we took the exact axle location of each plane. Most builders had given little thought to axle location, combining 1930s axle location with modern powerful brakes. In the article series we spent some effort to show that BHP's planes with brakes moved the axle well forward, to within 1/2" of the leading edge. His only later comment was that 0 to 3" behind the leading edge with the plane level was a good range. If you would like to get copies of the info before finish welding, read: http://flycorvair.net/2014/03/08/pietenpol-weight-and-balance-article-source/ Terry's plane came with a set of legs that would have put the axle 7.5" behind the leading edge. As he is planning on using 6x6 Cleveland hyd. drums off a Pacer, I opted to cut up the legs and scrap them, building new ones that moved the axle to BHP's recommended zone for Piets with brakes. Terry's gear is being finished with this kind of spring: http://flycorvair.net/2012/10/27/new-die-spring-landing-gear-on-a-pietenpol-10-a-m-4-p-m/ The data from the W&B project showed the reason why more Piets with strong brakes and aft axles don't end up on their backs: Many of the same planes have terrible aft CG conditions. At this point, your plane can easily have everything correct, there isn't any reason to have it other than BHP intended. Although I have seen the plans work countless times, most welding detail design manuals have better ways to attach the small thick wall tubes for the bolts to the main tubes. Look at AC-43-13 and particularly the EAA book on welding. They involve a better load path into the main tube. Powerful brakes and paved runways put a load on the attachments not envisioned in 1930.-ww Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420112#420112 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear From: "aerocarjake" Thanks WW.... I met you briefly at OSH w/ Terry. He has been out to see my project several times. I did move the axles 3 1/2 inches forward because of your w&b articles. Sure would not want to do that as a retrofit later. I plan to have a bracket at the base of the bee at the axle which I have seen versions of on other similar birds. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some more research. I'd like my gear to be stout for any eventual "less than ideal" landings - ha! Thx..... -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420113#420113 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear From: Steven Dortch Just went out and took a look at mine. The gear looks plenty forward. Cessna 120/140s had a metal strap modification to move the landing gear forward about 5 inches or so. It looked strange but dramatically reduced the noseover rate. Some would tweak the landing gear forward about 3 inches I have heard that on Stearman Biplanes they replace the stock brakes with Jeep (Yes WWII or CJ5) brakes. They were inefficient and as a result lowered the rate of noseovers. Blue Skies, Steve D On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 7:52 PM, aerocarjake wrote: > > > > Thanks WW.... I met you briefly at OSH w/ Terry. He has been out to see my > project several times. I did move the axles 3 1/2 inches forward because of > your w&b articles. Sure would not want to do that as a retrofit later. I > plan to have a bracket at the base of the bee at the axle which I have seen > versions of on other similar birds. > > Thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some more research. > > I'd like my gear to be stout for any eventual "less than ideal" landings - > ha! > > Thx..... > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420113#420113 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:39 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Width....Curmudeon/purist alert...scramble to fill From: "aviken" Sometimes : as they say , even a blind hog will find an acorn . Well I guess I found my acorn. I fretted about my sheet of 7/32 ply that I had paid a huge sum of dough for only to see that most builders use 1/4 on the floor. I finally said ,"the hell with it" and used it anyway. Now I find I am in good stead with powers of Curmudeondum. What a nice discovery! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420120#420120 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:35 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: looking to trade for a Pietenpol If you happen to have a flying Piet in the southern California area (or wit hin a few hundred miles of it) and want to trade for an LSA Pulsar 1 projec t that isn't flying yet but is fairly complete=2C you can check out this li nk: http://www.contactmagazine.com/Classifieds/Pulsar-1.html Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" Medford=2C OR ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:32 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Speaking of Doc... From: "William Wynne" Kevin, here is one of my favorite moments with Doc: At Oshkosh 10 or 12 years ago, we are trying to drive in through the inner gate, but we don't have the right pass. Doc is at the wheel of his old Taurus wagon, and he tells me this will not be a problem. As we are in line, Doc explains that getting past the guards is a complex equation of speed, proximity and the right wave. You must drive in fast enough they will not stop you, but not so fast to alarm them; you must drive close enough to them that they are more concerned about taking a step back than getting a look for your pass; and you have to wave just so, so they feel socially obligated to return it, but you don't make solid eye contact. Each of these must be adjusted for the individual guards on hand taking in to account their age and fitness, the time of day, weather, angle of the sun, etc. With our particular point of entry the magic combination was about 12mph and 16 inches to the guard. Doc waved just so, and the woman awkwardly waved as she was stepping back, The two other guards waved as if some VIP they should have known just drove past. Doc looked straight ahead and we drove right in. When we were clear by 50 yards, Doc looked over at me with a smile and said just like Alec Guinness, "These aren't the droids your looking for." -ww Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420124#420124 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.