---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/12/14: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:39 AM - Re: my new article, need input (Clif Dawson) 2. 04:37 AM - Re: Cross Braces (womenfly2) 3. 04:55 AM - Re: Cross Braces (john francis) 4. 05:17 AM - Re: Cross Braces (womenfly2) 5. 05:25 AM - Re: Re: Cross Braces (Gary Boothe) 6. 05:45 AM - Re: Cross Braces (john francis) 7. 05:58 AM - Re: my new article, need input (glenschweizer@yahoo.com) 8. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Cross Braces (Gary Boothe) 9. 06:41 AM - Re: Pietenpol refrence page (Boatright, Jeffrey) 10. 08:34 AM - Re: Cross Braces (William Wynne) 11. 08:53 AM - Re: Cross Braces (john francis) 12. 09:56 AM - Re: Pietenpol refrence page (womenfly2) 13. 09:59 AM - Re: Cross Braces (womenfly2) 14. 10:03 AM - Re: Cross Braces (taildrags) 15. 10:16 AM - Re: my new article, need input (jarheadpilot82) 16. 10:48 AM - Welding Question (John Franklin) 17. 12:03 PM - It's been 85 years, ya know.... (Don Emch) 18. 12:13 PM - Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... (larharris2 Harris) 19. 12:30 PM - Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... (Boatright, Jeffrey) 20. 01:00 PM - Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... (Don Emch) 21. 01:07 PM - Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... (echobravo4) 22. 01:08 PM - Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... (tools) 23. 01:08 PM - Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... (taildrags) 24. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... (Boatright, Jeffrey) 25. 01:38 PM - Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... (Don Emch) 26. 01:45 PM - 85 years (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 27. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... (Boatright, Jeffrey) 28. 02:00 PM - Re: 85 years (Boatright, Jeffrey) 29. 02:44 PM - Re: Welding Question (Ryan M) 30. 05:25 PM - Re: 85 years (jarheadpilot82) 31. 06:50 PM - Re: 85 years (tools) 32. 07:01 PM - Re: 85 years (jarheadpilot82) 33. 08:36 PM - Re: 85 years (William Wynne) 34. 09:25 PM - West Coast Piet fly-in 2014 (Oscar Zuniga) 35. 10:03 PM - Re: Re: 85 years (Boatright, Jeffrey) 36. 10:52 PM - Re: West Coast Piet fly-in 2014 (Chris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:57 AM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: my new article, need input It appears to be a lot lighter too. Another "Simplicate and add lightness." possibility. Maybe even close to helium filled ping pong balls. Clif The one thing I am most afraid of is a new idea. Chairman Mao I have barely heard of Oratex. Can't be better than my ice cream ! My gelato is damned good too. Thanks Sent from my iPhone ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:51 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross Braces From: "womenfly2" See the "shelf" detail under "constructional view of front of fuselage". It calls for an 1 1/4" x 1 1/2" Ash top motor mount bearing brace and a 3/4" square Spruce lower floor board brace. Sorry for the picture size, but it better to read at this scale. Enjoy the journey! .... WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420173#420173 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:18 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross Braces From: "john francis" Thanks for the responses and I do see them on the prints. However, with a Corvair engine, I believe these are modified because of the mounts. I just need to know how. John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420174#420174 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:40 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross Braces From: "womenfly2" You did not mention Corvair engine. ;) WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420176#420176 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:08 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross Braces John, The corvair doesn't change much, if anything, especially if you use the WW mount. One thing I am very glad I did (stole the idea from Jim Boyer), was to glue some "firewall placement dowels" in the x-piece supports (that's why they are longer than plans). That piece of plywood must have come off and on at least 100 times! After final attachment, just cut the dowels flush and install the firewall metal. If you don't have a forward fuel tank, you can use the x-piece as a support for a forward baggage. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john francis Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 4:55 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross Braces --> Thanks for the responses and I do see them on the prints. However, with a Corvair engine, I believe these are modified because of the mounts. I just need to know how. John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420174#420174 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:29 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross Braces From: "john francis" Gary, Thanks, the picture explains a lot. Did you build the top crosspiece as the plans suggest and notch it to fit around the front strut? That I cant see in the picture. John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420179#420179 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/crosspiece_147.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:15 AM PST US From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: my new article, need input Helium works good in tires Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 12, 2014, at 12:39 AM, "Clif Dawson" wrote: > > It appears to be a lot lighter too. > > Another "Simplicate and add lightness." > possibility. > > Maybe even close to helium filled ping pong > balls. > > Clif > > The one thing I am most afraid of is a new idea. > Chairman Mao > I have barely heard of Oratex. Can't be better than my ice cream ! My ge lato is damned good too. Thanks > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:08 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross Braces No. that is done as extra support for the Model A engine. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john francis Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:45 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross Braces --> Gary, Thanks, the picture explains a lot. Did you build the top crosspiece as the plans suggest and notch it to fit around the front strut? That I cant see in the picture. John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420179#420179 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/crosspiece_147.jpg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:23 AM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol refrence page Thanks for the resource, William! -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine On 3/12/14 2:20 AM, "William Wynne" wrote: > >Pieten-people, > >If builders and fans have not had a chance to see it, I have a single >page on my main site where all of our Piet and BHP stories are collected. >It is at this link: > >http://flycorvair.net/2013/11/28/corvair-pietenpol-reference-page/ > >It is not all Corvair stuff, it has information on the life and influence >of BHP, Cabanes and fuel lines, Weight and Balance, mount construction, >landing gear design, props, cooling, box spars, etc. There are 34 >separate stories there, a few hundred photos. > >I like Corvairs, but I am not a zealot about them. I am glad to provide >information to any builder, I don't care what has or will power his >plane. I have many happy hours behind All manner of Continentals and >Lycomings, Radials from PW, Warner, Wright and the Russians, even Olds >and Chevy V-8s....(But never a Rotax 912)... We even own a Schweizer >1-26 that has no motor at all. > >If you are a Continental or Ford guy our two webpages still have info you >can use. http://www.flycorvair.com/ has pages on carbs, thrust and HP >testing, FI and props. http://flycorvair.net/ has nearly 500 stories, >many on instrumentation, wiring, flight tests, books and more. Plenty of >things to learn there, even if we have nothing for you to buy.-ww > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420168#420168 > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:57 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross Braces From: "William Wynne" John, To add to what Gary and others have said; As pointed out, the strength of the cross brace in the original plans is because it is the aft end of the motor mount bearers. This was common in the'20s, look at how an OX-5 is in a jenny (it is kind of imbedded in the fuselage but it is on bearers) Fast forward to the 1960s and look at BHP's original Corvair mount. At first glance it is an odd structural design, but looking at it, the purpose emerges as a retrofit to existing fuselage construction. It has two large steel main tubes that are taking the function of the ash bearers. BHP's Corvair mount is also tied into the cross brace that forms the bottom of the shelf. The mounts we build today are different. Here is a view of one of our mounts on the same airframe, Mark Chouinard's, that was used as your original picture: http://flycorvair.net/2013/10/17/pietenpol-mount-on-airframe/ On a modern build, the cross brace has much lower load on it, and it can be made light, as in Gary's photos. However, I want everyone to understand that the plywood firewall must now go all the way to the top of the upper longerons (or higher) because it stabilizes them against the slight load they get pulling them together. I have flown a modern mount on our Piet with a low firewall and shelf (Our plane was originally Ford powered) without thinking about it much, but I went back later and raised the firewall to full height and put a 1"x1" cross brace on it just below the top longerons to stiffen it . Gary's plane has the thrust line in the stock location, which also mimics the Ford installation. This is required on a BHP Corvair conversion, because he retained the blower fan. A modern electric start Corvair can have the thrust line moved up 3" without getting into the top cowl. This was tested on our Piet in 1999. The modern mounts we make in our fixture all come this way. I have hand built a few with the original low line for guys like Bob Lester, who was trying to fit an original cowl, but all the ones you see on projects like Mark Chouinard's, Kevin Purtee's, Dave Aldrich's, Jim Boyer's and Terry Hand's are all high thrust line mounts. There is some pretty good photos covering thrust lines and axle location at this link: http://flycorvair.net/2012/11/08/pietenpol-products-motor-mounts-gear-and-instalation-components/ -ww Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420193#420193 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:02 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross Braces From: "john francis" Thanks William, nice to have you on the list. John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420196#420196 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:56 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol refrence page From: "womenfly2" Picture of Mark Chouinard Piet and his Corvair motor mount ... may help. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420199#420199 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross Braces From: "womenfly2" Picture of Mark Chouinard Piet and his Corvair motor mount ... may help. Your braces almost look the same. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420200#420200 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross Braces From: "taildrags" Another 'aha' moment for me! Looking at the pix of Pieten-Vairs, I now see the difference between the thrust line using the BHP engine mount and the modern mount. Essentially, if the Corvair valve covers are more or less in line with the top longerons, it's a modern mount. If they are below it, then it's a BHP mount (designed to accommodate the top blower). I have a BHP mount sitting in my hangar and will have to take a closer look at it next time I'm out there. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420201#420201 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:29 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: my new article, need input From: "jarheadpilot82" Steve, I am, indeed, thinking about Oratex. I think it looks good and is a strong as you know what. Contact Lars at betteraircraftfabric.com and he will send a free sample in the color(s) you want. I know it is not Irish linen. Or even Dacron, but it is an interesting product. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420203#420203 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:29 AM PST US From: John Franklin Subject: Pietenpol-List: Welding Question Hey Pietsters, Is it OK to weld a stainless steel bolt to a 4130 bushing using TIG with stainless 316 filler rod? This is for the Contrex tach sensor bracket that WW recommends. Thanks, John Franklin GN-1 / Corvair 164cid Prairie Aire 4TA0 Needville, TX ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: It's been 85 years, ya know.... From: "Don Emch" Just kicking around and idea.... In '09, for the 80th anniversary of the "Air Camper" several of us flew as a group to Oshkosh. We made a humble little statement that Pietenpols and their builders are alive and well. Overall it was a success and created a lot of memories for a lot of people. I also believe it kick started several builds. I think any design that has endured like the Pietenpol design has deserves to be recognized at least every 5 years. Any interest out there in doing something similar to what we did in '09? It was also done in '99 and '89. Maybe it's a little premature to think about doing it again, but every 10 years just seems like a long time to put together a little Oshkosh celebration. What has worked in the past has been to congregate at Brodhead for the regular Piet fly-in then gather together and fly en mass to Oshkosh on Sunday morning. There would have to be lots of cooperation with the OSH tower and EAA folks. They'd have to want to recognize the 85th Year Anniversary to make it really cool. In the past we've had a few "ins" when it came to dealing with those folks. What do all the flyers or organizers think about this? I sure had a Piet-load of fun in '09. Besides one of my sweet kids dropped and broke my mug that I got for flying in there. I need to get another one... Don Emch NX899DE P.S. It's okay to shoot the idea down... won't hurt my feelings. :) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420212#420212 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:55 PM PST US From: larharris2 Harris Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: It's been 85 years, ya know.... Great idea. I wish I had mine ready to participate. Not until next year. Pe rhaps I will be able to attend the 90th . . . Lorenzo > Subject: Pietenpol-List: It's been 85 years=2C ya know.... > From: EmchAir@aol.com > Date: Wed=2C 12 Mar 2014 12:02:51 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > Just kicking around and idea.... > > In '09=2C for the 80th anniversary of the "Air Camper" several of us flew as a group to Oshkosh. We made a humble little statement that Pietenpols and their builders are alive and well. Overall it was a success and create d a lot of memories for a lot of people. I also believe it kick started se veral builds. I think any design that has endured like the Pietenpol desig n has deserves to be recognized at least every 5 years. > > Any interest out there in doing something similar to what we did in '09? It was also done in '99 and '89. Maybe it's a little premature to think a bout doing it again=2C but every 10 years just seems like a long time to pu t together a little Oshkosh celebration. What has worked in the past has b een to congregate at Brodhead for the regular Piet fly-in then gather toget her and fly en mass to Oshkosh on Sunday morning. There would have to be l ots of cooperation with the OSH tower and EAA folks. They'd have to want t o recognize the 85th Year Anniversary to make it really cool. In the past we've had a few "ins" when it came to dealing with those folks. > > What do all the flyers or organizers think about this? I sure had a Piet -load of fun in '09. Besides one of my sweet kids dropped and broke my mug that I got for flying in there. I need to get another one... > > Don Emch > NX899DE > > P.S. It's okay to shoot the idea down... won't hurt my feelings. :) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420212#420212 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:12 PM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: It's been 85 years, ya know.... I have been slowly getting all my systems in place to finally fly my Piet up to Brodhead. I am on the fence about OSH, but if others want to go in a gaggle, I'm in! As to cooperation with OSH organizers, I'd love to see it. At one point the powers that be were wringing their hands about declining numbers of "antique" planes attending. I pointed out to them that they cannot expect antique planes to flock to a venue that forces them to operate with modern strictures such as hard-surface runways and ignoring crosswinds. Our planes and their cohorts were designed at a time when most "airports" were simply open fields. All landings were done into the wind and on grass. I can land on hard surfaces, but for what we are all about, the obvious choice is Pioneer Airfield. Also, wouldn't it be cool to have a bunch of Piets parked around Bernard's old hangar? Those comments were sent in '09, after some kerfuffles with the Piets being forced to land on hard surfaces in challenging winds. So far I haven't gotten a response. -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine On 3/12/14 3:02 PM, "Don Emch" wrote: > >Just kicking around and idea.... > >In '09, for the 80th anniversary of the "Air Camper" several of us flew >as a group to Oshkosh. We made a humble little statement that Pietenpols >and their builders are alive and well. Overall it was a success and >created a lot of memories for a lot of people. I also believe it kick >started several builds. I think any design that has endured like the >Pietenpol design has deserves to be recognized at least every 5 years. > >Any interest out there in doing something similar to what we did in '09? >It was also done in '99 and '89. Maybe it's a little premature to think >about doing it again, but every 10 years just seems like a long time to >put together a little Oshkosh celebration. What has worked in the past >has been to congregate at Brodhead for the regular Piet fly-in then >gather together and fly en mass to Oshkosh on Sunday morning. There >would have to be lots of cooperation with the OSH tower and EAA folks. >They'd have to want to recognize the 85th Year Anniversary to make it >really cool. In the past we've had a few "ins" when it came to dealing >with those folks. > >What do all the flyers or organizers think about this? I sure had a >Piet-load of fun in '09. Besides one of my sweet kids dropped and broke >my mug that I got for flying in there. I need to get another one... > >Don Emch >NX899DE > >P.S. It's okay to shoot the idea down... won't hurt my feelings. :) > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420212#420212 > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:17 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... From: "Don Emch" Jeff, I landed on the hard surface with a stupid stiff crosswind at OSH that year. many of the guys in the gaggle lined up on the runway and then in the last hundred feet or so just side stepped over and landed on the grass beside the runway. As far as I know nothing was ever said to them. Flying in there in a gaggle does ease a little of the stress and might be a good opportunity for those wanting to get their chance to go to the big show. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420219#420219 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:14 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... From: "echobravo4" I would love to do that! Hoping to have mine done for the 90th Tho' -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420221#420221 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... From: "tools" I've got a few in's with Oshkosh organizers, would be happy to do what I can. Piet's hangar is probably out do to Kidventure, which takes Pioneer field out with it. An EARLY arrival is probably the best plan, weather and traffic wise. Would be happy to host an evening event here in Oshkosh in the firehouse. I've got a great meeting area that could easily hold 20 to 30 people, and if there's more, I'll just open the whole place. For folks that fly in, we could set a meeting place and I'll pick up as many as I can in the old 1929 LaFrance fire truck! If there were at least 5 or 6 planes, I imagine we could try to get them together, would be fun to have a old Ford car or truck parked with them! The EAA has an old T, would work if nothing else pans out. I could probably get the EAA's displays out of Bernie's hangar to put with the airplanes for the public's viewing pleasure, would make it more formal looking as a group. I'd even be happy to get a beer going for the event that we could tap that evening. What's the consensus on style? The firehouse is located at 6th and Main, probably two miles or so from the field. Half a dozen great bars and restaurants within walking distance. Google "Brooklyn Firehouse Oshkosh" to see it and find some pictures (from the real estate add, think they're still online) of the venue. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420222#420222 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... From: "taildrags" As far as having an "in", and not to put anybody on the spot, but remember the story about Doc Mosher driving right past the gate guard to get in at OSH? What if Doc leads the gaggle? -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420223#420223 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:45 PM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... Boy, that sounds like a gaggle of even better ideas! One thing about OSH - you're never more than two blocks from a bar, once you get off the field. ;) As to the other, having been involved in organizing large conventions, I know that every decision is a compromise. But, it sure seems like a huge waste of Pioneer Airfield to have the helicopters and Kidventure shut it down to most other uses. Kidventure, if it's still held in a big tent, could really be anywhere there's a large field (like the OTHER side of the museum, or even in the big, old exhibits building that apparently isn't being used at all this year). And, obviously, helicopters can operate almost anywhere. I know, I know, there are probably a lot of domino effects that result in the current set up, but talk about a natural for antique planes. I don't really grock the purpose of Pioneer Airfield if it's not used at the association's premier event to promote...pioneering aviation! -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine On 3/12/14 4:07 PM, "tools" wrote: > >I've got a few in's with Oshkosh organizers, would be happy to do what I >can. > >Piet's hangar is probably out do to Kidventure, which takes Pioneer field >out with it. > >An EARLY arrival is probably the best plan, weather and traffic wise. >Would be happy to host an evening event here in Oshkosh in the firehouse. > I've got a great meeting area that could easily hold 20 to 30 people, >and if there's more, I'll just open the whole place. For folks that fly >in, we could set a meeting place and I'll pick up as many as I can in the >old 1929 LaFrance fire truck! > >If there were at least 5 or 6 planes, I imagine we could try to get them >together, would be fun to have a old Ford car or truck parked with them! >The EAA has an old T, would work if nothing else pans out. I could >probably get the EAA's displays out of Bernie's hangar to put with the >airplanes for the public's viewing pleasure, would make it more formal >looking as a group. > >I'd even be happy to get a beer going for the event that we could tap >that evening. What's the consensus on style? > >The firehouse is located at 6th and Main, probably two miles or so from >the field. Half a dozen great bars and restaurants within walking >distance. Google "Brooklyn Firehouse Oshkosh" to see it and find some >pictures (from the real estate add, think they're still online) of the >venue. > >Tools > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420222#420222 > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... From: "Don Emch" In '09 we went the formal route and the EAA folks were involved in organizing the gaggle coming in and they promoted it in literature ahead of time. I'd be happy to organize something if I had the right people to talk to at OSH. The last time Bill Rewey was a key organizer and did a lot of the talking to EAA. That worked out really well. If we think we have enough interest I could go a step further and contact the EAA. but we'd have to have some real interest from the flyers. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420228#420228 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:31 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: 85 years Between John Hoffman and Doc Mosher they have all the contacts at EAA any g roup could ever want to organize a gathering. I was involved with the 70 th & 80th gatherings and really the only thing you need is to confirm with EAA that they'll rese rve a place for everyone to park and a date and time of arrival. I have found that flying into Oshkosh is safer and more organized than any local flying I do at uncontrolled fiel ds by a long shot as a group or flying the Ripon/Fisk arrival. Don Emch gave a perfect option for landing on grass too next to the paved runways. Mike C. Ohio ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:54 PM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: It's been 85 years, ya know.... If I can make to Brodhead, then I'm willing to commit to Oshkosh. I realize the former is the big "if" for a guy from Atlanta, but what can I say? The good Lord willing and the crick don't rise... -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine On 3/12/14 4:38 PM, "Don Emch" wrote: > >In '09 we went the formal route and the EAA folks were involved in >organizing the gaggle coming in and they promoted it in literature ahead >of time. I'd be happy to organize something if I had the right people to >talk to at OSH. The last time Bill Rewey was a key organizer and did a >lot of the talking to EAA. That worked out really well. If we think we >have enough interest I could go a step further and contact the EAA. but >we'd have to have some real interest from the flyers. > >Don Emch >NX899DE > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420228#420228 > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:13 PM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 85 years You guys are making it tough for me to concentrate here at work! Now I'm ju st reading emails and trying to convince myself that nobody will notice if I sneak out to the airport for a quick evening flight=85 -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine From: , "LLC]" > >" > etenpol-list@matronics.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: 85 years Between John Hoffman and Doc Mosher they have all the contacts at EAA any g roup could ever want to organize a gathering. I was involved with the 70 th & 80th gatherings and really the only thing you need is to confirm with EAA that they=92ll re serve a place for everyone to park and a date and time of arrival. I ha ve found that flying into Oshkosh is safer and more organized than any local flying I do at uncontrolled fiel ds by a long shot as a group or flying the Ripon/Fisk arrival. Don Emch gave a perfect option for landing on grass too next to the paved runways. Mike C. Ohio ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Welding Question From: Ryan M Use 309 http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-how-to/Pages/filler-met al-detail.aspx Sent from my iPhone On Mar 12, 2014, at 1:47 PM, John Franklin wrote: > > Hey Pietsters, > > Is it OK to weld a stainless steel bolt to a 4130 bushing using TIG with s tainless 316 filler rod? This is for the Contrex tach sensor bracket that W W recommends. > > Thanks, > John Franklin > GN-1 / Corvair 164cid > Prairie Aire 4TA0 > Needville, TX > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 85 years From: "jarheadpilot82" I like Tools' idea of a Piet fest at his place. Could be a good time for a bunch of Pietenpol guys. Leinenkugels for all my friends! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420239#420239 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:46 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 85 years From: "tools" Leiny's? I was gonna MAKE a keg... not the store bought stuff... Though Leiny's is good! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420247#420247 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:11 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 85 years From: "jarheadpilot82" Leiny's or "tooly's", I am in there, either way! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420248#420248 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:22 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 85 years From: "William Wynne" Pietenpolers, Two cents on a group fly in to Oshkosh: Last year we had a 'Corvair power' row reserved at Oshkosh. One of the best things about it was the EAA put it right behind my booth, which backed up right on the homebuilt flight line. Randy Bush's 500 hr Pietenpol was within 25' feet of my tent. This year my space is #616, in the same spot. While you could park the Piets anywhere between Warbirds and Aeroshell square, consider for a minute requesting a row behind my booth. While most companies just do business 9-5, we tend to run our place as a social operations base 6am-12pm. We have cookouts two nights, but all week we have electricity, shade, lawn chairs, coolers, food, tools, mechanics, welders, valuables storage, books, beach umbrellas, ground transportation, spare tie downs, water, computers, Cordless screwdrivers, emergency cash, a primo gate pass, a gas grill, Folding tables, funnels, heaters, an air-conditioner, tarps, beer, a service dog available for petting, a coffee pot, more beer and a trailer to hide in during rainstorms. The Weseman's are right next to us, and they bring even more stuff. Sovereign countries have started protracted wars with less equipment than we bring to Oshkosh. Having the row behind us allows us to keep an eye on planes. Last year during a squall we went out and doubled up everyone's tie downs. I can bring up stuff from Brodhead on Sunday that you may not want in the plane. A row near the Arch can mean not having a place to sit and every bottle of water setting you back $6. Our booth at Oshkosh basically costs $3,000 for the week, and our approach is to get every dollars worth of fun out of it. If it isn't forbidden in the fine print, we do it, If it is forbidden, I claim I never saw it, If I am reminded that I was reprimanded for doing it last year, I point out continuous exposure to 100LL causes amnesia. Mike, Mr.Tools or whomever would like to lead, my input is to get Charlie Becker and Doc Mosher in the loop, they are Luke and Obwan, and always have the right person to call to make things go smoothly. At Oshkosh, the force is with them. -ww Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420249#420249 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:31 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: West Coast Piet fly-in 2014 So... is there an info page=2C or a "host"=2C or a common point of contact for the Frazier Lake event=2C or is this list the meeting place? I'm start ing to get a little more excited about the event since it has really starte d to be spring around here. We're supposed to be into the 70s for highs th is weekend and the days this week have been just beautiful. The pireps fro m you Pieters who have already ventured out of the hangar have also gotten my blood stirring. Just two things left to do before I fill the tank and pull the prop on Scou t=2C and those should happen this weekend. I've got my engine oil all read y for the oil change once I warm up the engine=2C and I dug out the headset and tangle of cords that goes with it. I'm on a controlled field=2C so fo r the past year or so I've had my little Icom IC-A23 on tower frequency any time I'm in the hangar so I can pick up the chatter and figure out what's w hat. Today I checked with the A&P who's going to do the condition inspecti on on the airplane and he's ready when Scout is. This will not be his firs t condition inspection on an Air Camper=2C but we'll see what he thinks whe n he peeks up Scout's skirt. I can already smell that engine exhaust as I run up the engine and taxi test to see how it handles with the Matco tailwh eel. So it's about 12 weeks till the fly-in. I'll need at least two more weeks to get odds and ends wrapped up=2C then another week for the inspection and another week to clear up squawks=2C so that leaves 8 weeks to get in the a ir and get comfortable before I run the Siskiyou Summit headed south. I've been reading up on how to fly a good test card to determine Vx and Vy and I want to do that during that time=2C too. I need to scale it back to Piet proportions though... most test cards out there are for planes that can cl imb thousands of feet in a reasonable amount of time=2C and they don't even start their test programs till they get to about 3000'. I would burn an a fternoon and a tank of fuel trying to do that! They also recommend using a stopwatch for the timed climbs. I'm going to use an hourglass =3Bo) I also need to make a 'For Sale' sign to hang on the plane at Frazier Lake. That's the plan=2C anyway. Oscar Zuniga Medford=2C OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power=2C Tennessee Props 72x36 prop ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:47 PM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: 85 years A service dog that fetches beer for me from someone else's cooler? Schuh-weet -- I'm there! Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Sent from an iPad with a spelling problem > On Mar 12, 2014, at 11:38 PM, "William Wynne" wrote: > > > Pietenpolers, > > Two cents on a group fly in to Oshkosh: > > Last year we had a 'Corvair power' row reserved at Oshkosh. One of the best things about it was the EAA put it right behind my booth, which backed up right on the homebuilt flight line. Randy Bush's 500 hr Pietenpol was within 25' feet of my tent. This year my space is #616, in the same spot. While you could park the Piets anywhere between Warbirds and Aeroshell square, consider for a minute requesting a row behind my booth. > > While most companies just do business 9-5, we tend to run our place as a social operations base 6am-12pm. We have cookouts two nights, but all week we have electricity, shade, lawn chairs, coolers, food, tools, mechanics, welders, valuables storage, books, beach umbrellas, ground transportation, spare tie downs, water, computers, Cordless screwdrivers, emergency cash, a primo gate pass, a gas grill, Folding tables, funnels, heaters, an air-conditioner, tarps, beer, a service dog available for petting, a coffee pot, more beer and a trailer to hide in during rainstorms. The Weseman's are right next to us, and they bring even more stuff. Sovereign countries have started protracted wars with less equipment than we bring to Oshkosh. > > Having the row behind us allows us to keep an eye on planes. Last year during a squall we went out and doubled up everyone's tie downs. I can bring up stuff from Brodhead on Sunday that you may not want in the plane. A row near the Arch can mean not having a place to sit and every bottle of water setting you back $6. Our booth at Oshkosh basically costs $3,000 for the week, and our approach is to get every dollars worth of fun out of it. If it isn't forbidden in the fine print, we do it, If it is forbidden, I claim I never saw it, If I am reminded that I was reprimanded for doing it last year, I point out continuous exposure to 100LL causes amnesia. > > Mike, Mr.Tools or whomever would like to lead, my input is to get Charlie Becker and Doc Mosher in the loop, they are Luke and Obwan, and always have the right person to call to make things go smoothly. At Oshkosh, the force is with them. -ww > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420249#420249 > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:13 PM PST US From: "Chris" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: West Coast Piet fly-in 2014 Oscar Mike Groah is the point man for the fly-in. I heard from him the other day and he is working on this year's flyer. I'm sure info will be out soon. But really all you need to know is the date and where. That's about all there is to the details. Is a very low key affair. Chris T. Sacramento, Ca Westcoastpiet.com From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 9:25 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: West Coast Piet fly-in 2014 So... is there an info page, or a "host", or a common point of contact for the Frazier Lake event, or is this list the meeting place? I'm starting to get a little more excited about the event since it has really started to be spring around here. We're supposed to be into the 70s for highs this weekend and the days this week have been just beautiful. The pireps from you Pieters who have already ventured out of the hangar have also gotten my blood stirring. Just two things left to do before I fill the tank and pull the prop on Scout, and those should happen this weekend. I've got my engine oil all ready for the oil change once I warm up the engine, and I dug out the headset and tangle of cords that goes with it. I'm on a controlled field, so for the past year or so I've had my little Icom IC-A23 on tower frequency anytime I'm in the hangar so I can pick up the chatter and figure out what's what. Today I checked with the A&P who's going to do the condition inspection on the airplane and he's ready when Scout is. This will not be his first condition inspection on an Air Camper, but we'll see what he thinks when he peeks up Scout's skirt. I can already smell that engine exhaust as I run up the engine and taxi test to see how it handles with the Matco tailwheel. So it's about 12 weeks till the fly-in. I'll need at least two more weeks to get odds and ends wrapped up, then another week for the inspection and another week to clear up squawks, so that leaves 8 weeks to get in the air and get comfortable before I run the Siskiyou Summit headed south. I've been reading up on how to fly a good test card to determine Vx and Vy and I want to do that during that time, too. I need to scale it back to Piet proportions though... most test cards out there are for planes that can climb thousands of feet in a reasonable amount of time, and they don't even start their test programs till they get to about 3000'. I would burn an afternoon and a tank of fuel trying to do that! They also recommend using a stopwatch for the timed climbs. I'm going to use an hourglass ;o) I also need to make a 'For Sale' sign to hang on the plane at Frazier Lake. That's the plan, anyway. Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power, Tennessee Props 72x36 prop ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.