Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Wed 03/19/14


Total Messages Posted: 18



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:20 AM - Looking for a Continental? (Don Emch)
     2. 07:07 AM - Bingilis books (Douwe Blumberg)
     3. 08:19 AM - Re: Bingilis books (tools)
     4. 09:02 AM - Re: Re: you don't need a static port or static line on a Pietenpol (Steven Dortch)
     5. 09:39 AM - Re: you don't need a static port or static line on a Pietenpol (jarheadpilot82)
     6. 10:29 AM - Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project (Vasek)
     7. 10:59 AM - Re: Bingilis books (William Wynne)
     8. 11:00 AM - Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project (nightmare)
     9. 11:11 AM - Tank (Scott Knowlton)
    10. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: Bingilis books (Robert Rice)
    11. 12:13 PM - Re: Tank (Lion Mason)
    12. 12:59 PM - Re: Tank (Don Emch)
    13. 01:05 PM - Re: Tank (Don Emch)
    14. 01:25 PM - Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project (taildrags)
    15. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: Bingilis books (Steven Dortch)
    16. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project (Steven Dortch)
    17. 02:09 PM - Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project (nightmare)
    18. 09:25 PM - Re: Bingilis books (taildrags)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:20:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Looking for a Continental?
    From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
    This appears to be a nice deal for someone looking for a Continental. I just saw it on Barnstormers, don't know anything about it... A-65-8F $1,750 NO TIREKICKERS Running well when removed for HP upgrade. with engine mount, mags, carb.Oil tanks nice! As removed Contact Call Ed or Amber, Owner - located Birmingham, AL USA Telephone: 205 578-2582 . 866 922 2672 . Posted March 18, 2014 Show all Ads posted by this Advertiser Recommend This Ad to a Friend Email Advertiser Save to Watchlist Report This Ad Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420606#420606


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:07:20 AM PST US
    From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Bingilis books
    Here's my $.02 In my humble opinion and from my building experience, the Bingilis books are valuable because to my knowledge, they are the only place where MOST of the info needed for a novice to build a plane is to be found in one place. The two main sources of info I had at my disposal during my build was this list and those books. Sure I could search the web endlessly for different ways to swage a cable or make a fitting or drill a hole, but having all that basic knowledge in one place was a huge blessing. Sure some of it is dated, heck the guy was an early gen EAA builder and the books reflect both his personal experience and the era he wrote in. The procedures he wrote about were considered "standard" at the time and MOST of what he wrote is still accurate and if followed, will produce an airworthy Pietenpol. Maybe we need another Bingilis to write some new comprehensive books where we can go for one-stop info shopping using all the current technology. I say until someone does this, keep the books as the basic "go-to" manual. Douwe


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:19:16 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Bingilis books
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    [quote="douweblumberg(at)earthlin"]...and MOST of what he wrote is still accurate and if followed, will produce an [MOSTLY] airworthy Pietenpol. Douwe > [b] Is that what ya meant? I've got the books. Use them. Got a lot of other books too, use them also. You guys ever read how to rebuild the Chevy Turbohydramatic 350 transmission? The ending is FANTASTIC, never saw it coming... great read! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420617#420617


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:02:27 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: you don't need a static port or static line on
    a Pietenpol
    From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
    We all have the following: The plans (Hoopman with Grega mods), Flying and Glider manuals, AC 43-13, Uncle Tony's books, Various Pietenpol sites, Various flybaby sites, flycorvair.com, Search of matronics archives, asking the list, Google search, talking to the old men at the coffee shop. My airplane guru, Free advice from lurkers at the airport, My own ideas, thots and reservations. All have something to add. Some good, some not so good. I have to make the decision when it is time to cut the part or drill the hole. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 10:33 PM, bdewenter <anonymouse@woh.rr.com> wrote: > > > Brian C-FAUK wrote: > > > > Building a scratch built aircraft is a job that only the most diligent > can complete. Those=EF=BDwho persevere should have the greatest chance of > success, they deserve it. Following Tony is good advice even if it is out > of date and even wrong. You could do a lot worse by not following it. > > > > > I think the defense of Tony is well intentioned, but I disagree with some > of it. I do apologize if the rest of this seems a little harsh. I admit to > having a fault that what I think spills out un-censored. No one should > take anything I post personally. > > Neither perseverance nor diligence produce airworthy aircraft - they just > produce an object - perhaps one that is not airworthy. Following advice > known to be wrong produces unsafe, unworthy aircraft. If Tony's advice i s > wrong (or outdated) it should not be followed. > > I have all of Tony's books and rely on them heavily as I do some of the > advice on this list. However I do also recognize the age of its expertis e > and the lack of current materials - asbestos products for firewalls? > really?. It was not too long ago that everyone "Knew the world was flat" . > > I do agree that those who have the greatest chance of success follow a > proven path, and sound advice as I did to successfully build and run my > Corvair convertion engine after a successful 368 day build. It did not > require a Lycoming or Continental core to be successful. Success (for me ) > required the Chevrolet "Green Shop Manual", some education, 3 Corvair > Colleges, and professional help. I am an informed builder making sound > decisions, following a proven "Corvair" path. > > > Very respectfully > > -------- > Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter > Dayton OH > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420601#420601 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:39:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: you don't need a static port or static line on a Pietenpol
    From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
    Steve, Just don't shoot me if I have the same books on my shelf, study them, and then come up with a different solution. Aviation technology as well as the world around us is constantly evolving. And you have to tailor your build to those old technologies that are still relevant coupled with new. For example, the Bingelis books give techniques for building both a fiberglass fuel tank (comparatively "new school") as well as an aluminum one ("old school" in comparison to fiberglass). I, personally, have no intention of building a fuel tank or system that can be severely damaged by ethanol fuels. Your chances of getting ethanol in your fuel system are pretty good moving forward, whether intentional or unintentional. So old school (aluminum) is the better choice in my opinion. But would you rather use casein glue or T88? "New school" is better, obviously. But if you read Flying and Glider Magazine and took its every word as Gospel, then you might have some issues. Filtering techniques from a previous time with the capabilities and technology of today is all I think that William, or Bob, or any other writers are suggesting. My penny and a half. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420622#420622


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:29:05 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project
    From: "Vasek" <bigon2@seznam.cz>
    Hello, I am sending you two photos I made today. It is welded fuselage, tail surfaces, fuel tank, I am working on the control systems now. [Wink] Vasek -------- My production of WW1 propellers, trophies and constructions: Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420625#420625 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/trup1_360.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/trup2_207.jpg


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:59:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Bingilis books
    From: "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA@aol.com>
    Douwe, The term "Airworthy" has a very specific and understood deffinion if we are speaking of trained professionals operating with good judgement on certified planes. Conversely, it has a very vague definition in homebuilding circles. Consider that all experimentals have an FAA inspection. Does this deem the plane airworthy if it passes? No. Here is the FAA language: "the FAA or a Designated Airworthiness Representative (DAR) in your geographical area will inspect your amateur-built aircraft for general airworthiness" A lot of people miss-read that to say the inspection makes the plane airworthy. It only says the paperwork is in order, it doesn't even say it is right. On the W&B project, several of the planes we looked at had a W&B sheet that was obviously copied from another plane (wheel base different), but this data passed the DAR. Something like 25% of new homebuilts have a serious mechanical failure (does not always result in incident) during the first 10 hours of flight. Clearly, those planes were not airworthy in my book the day they passed the DAR. Mr. Tools point of adding "Mostly" to your comment is a good one. Working from a book that is mosty right, can only produce a plane that is mostly right. My point is that to be airworthy by the standards of Physics chemistry and gravity, the only organization that uses the death penalty as punishment for non-compliance, a plane must simply be 100% good. Note that a plane which is 99% perfect is certainly better than "Mostly" perfect, but that 1% can be your undoing. I teach people 100% good, all within proven limits. Would you like to see where "mostly" ends up? Get a look at this story, it is about the prettiest 601 ever built, but it was owned buy a guy who put the mixture control in his carb together incorrectly because he didn't want to pay a pro to do it, nor take the time to learn it himself. Combine that with low altitude cruising on flight #1, and you end up dead. I told him twice to let a repair station do the carb. the labor charge was $400, too expensive for Ken: http://flycorvair.net/2013/04/20/risk-management-judgement-error-money-in-the-wrong-place/ Lots of people like to express opinions on "airworthy." I look at it very differently, I am concerned not with a static condition on a single day, I am concerned with a mindset and a process called "Effective risk management." I started with a degree in accident investigation from Embry-Riddle, but that was just the jumping off point. I have learned a lot since. You can read this at length on the link below. It also has great pictures and fun stories about many of my closest friends, who are all dead now. Maybe the things I know cost a lot, and perhaps they are worth thinking about. http://flycorvair.net/2014/01/21/risk-management-reference-page/ At Corvair College#28, Kevin Purtee remarked that he and I are both the same age, have both worked in aviation every day since we were 26, both hold the same degree from Embry-Riddle, and have both extensively studied and managed risk programs. Yet he pointed out that he has learned a lot from the things I have written on the topic. There is a simple explanation for this. He has worked in a very dangerous environment (combat) but has done so with professionals who understand risk management. Conversely, I have spent the same years in the wilderness working with people who often didn't even think they had anything to learn from me. Simply put, I have had a front row seat to countless examples of dangerous thinking and seen the results. I have enough stories, but right now, someone is working on adding to the list. Just make sure it isn't you. I know several hundred people who have successfully completed and safely flown their homebuilt. I also known five times as many that never finished. Ask all the people who failed, and nearly every one of them will have the same collection of books, Tony's among them. Ask the people who succeeded, and the common thread that emerges is that they wisely chose 4 living in person mentors, who had already built and flown the same plane they were working on, and they used their advise to learn from. The successful do not listen to airport lurkers, armchair experts, people who build race cars, nor even majority approved responses from internet discussion groups. They are more selective, and they use up to date information, and they adjust their built or their plane to advancements like fuel lines. -ww Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420628#420628


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:00:06 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project
    From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
    Vaclav. Congrats on progress. Looks like the front fuselage is already stretched for a lightweight engine. Is that true? Also the riblett vs piet wing was a riblett 612 vs a piet wing with vortex generators with very similar performance. The 613.5 is a higher lift wing than the 612. The 613.5 also allows a longer wingspan with a nice safety margin due to taller spar. For the record, i am building using the 613.5 rib and stretched a few feet. Im estimating that i will have above average climb rate with average or below average cruise. That is what will make me happy. Lots of opinions on this. The purists will obviously recommend keeping original wing, but many of them have strayed from plans and stretched the original wing with the same height spar. My very very humble opinion is to look again at all info available and make a decision based on your research. None of our opinions will mean anything to you if you are not happy with the plane that you will be living with. -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420629#420629


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:11:41 AM PST US
    Subject: Tank
    From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k@hotmail.com>
    I built a cardboard template of my nose tank and took it along with a neck, c ap and threaded drain fittings to a good friend of mine who welds aluminium. He sent me this photo today. How cool! Scott Knowlton. Sent from my iPhone


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:16:57 AM PST US
    From: Robert Rice <ricekrgr@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Bingilis books
    I heard somewhere that the 350 Turbohydramatic Rebuild was a good read... =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: tools <n0kkj@yahoo .com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 10:15 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bingilis books=0A =0A=0A--> Pieten pol-List message posted by: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>=0A=0A[quote="douweb lumberg(at)earthlin"]...and MOST of what he wrote is still accurate and if followed, will produce an [MOSTLY] airworthy Pietenpol.- - =0A- =0ADo uwe- =0A- =0A- =0A- - - =0A> [b]=0A=0A=0AIs that what ya meant? - =0A=0AI've got the books.- Use them.- Got a lot of other books too, use them also.=0A=0AYou guys ever read how to rebuild the Chevy Turbohydra matic 350 transmission?- The ending is FANTASTIC, never saw it coming... great read!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.m ==============


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:13:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Tank
    From: Lion Mason <airlion2@gmail.com>
    Make sure you will have enough head pressure for your gasciulator and. carb for the engine to run. I did not so I went to a wing tank. Cheers, Gardiner Sent from my iPhone On Mar 19, 2014, at 2:08 PM, Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k@hotmail.com> wrote: > I built a cardboard template of my nose tank and took it along with a neck, cap and threaded drain fittings to a good friend of mine who welds aluminium. He sent me this photo today. How cool! > > Scott Knowlton. > > <Attachment-1.jpeg> > > > > Sent from my iPhone


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:59:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Tank
    From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
    The tank looks nice. It is the same general shape as mine. The base of mine sits a couple inches below the ash cross support on the firewall. I've never had any kind of head pressure issue with my A-65. I formed my tank up and took it to a welder friend of mine and he was very conscious about making the welds look pretty. They were small, tight, and beautiful when done. I brought the tank home and filled it with water. At that point it looked like I was building a garden watering can instead of a fuel tank because it leaked like crazy. So I took it to a local speed shop that welded up fuel tanks for race cars. He went over it with new big ugly welds. looked bad but I've never had any hint of a leak. :-) I will say... it sure is hard to beat the absolute simplicity of an aluminum nose tank. It is light, ethanol proof, and I have one very short line that leads to the firewall. And hey... Mr. Pietenpol put a nose tank in a Corvair ship so I can still remain on the Top Curmudgeon's and the Top Curmudgeon Emeritus's advisory committee. Don Emch NX89DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420637#420637


    Message 13


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    Time: 01:05:52 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Tank
    From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
    One more thing on the tank.... As Mike's uncle Tony says you'll want to make sure the lowest point in the tank has the sump to avoid the collection of water and to make sure it'll get drained out. Ideally you want a low point that is low whether in the three point or in level to cover all your bases. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420638#420638


    Message 14


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    Time: 01:25:42 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project
    From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Vasek; nice work on the Aircamper fuselage! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot; A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420641#420641


    Message 15


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    Time: 01:50:21 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Bingilis books
    From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
    One of the most helpful books I have is a 1941 book to teach High School students about airplanes! It describes all the priniciples needed. Including pulleys and such. I could build a Pietenpol from that book with the Flying and Glider manual. Blue Skies, Steve D On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:15 AM, tools <n0kkj@yahoo.com> wrote: > > [quote="douweblumberg(at)earthlin"]...and MOST of what he wrote is still > accurate and if followed, will produce an [MOSTLY] airworthy Pietenpol. > > Douwe > > > > [b] > > > Is that what ya meant? > > I've got the books. Use them. Got a lot of other books too, use them > also. > > You guys ever read how to rebuild the Chevy Turbohydramatic 350 > transmission? The ending is FANTASTIC, never saw it coming... great read! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420617#420617 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D


    Message 16


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    Time: 01:54:50 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project
    From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
    Your sound system is not big enough! Looks like progress. ;+} Steve d On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Vasek <bigon2@seznam.cz> wrote: > > Hello, > > I am sending you two photos I made today. > > It is welded fuselage, tail surfaces, fuel tank, I am working on the > control systems now. > > [Wink] > > Vasek > > -------- > My production of WW1 propellers, trophies and constructions: > =88=BC > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420625#420625 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/trup1_360.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/trup2_207.jpg > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D


    Message 17


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    Time: 02:09:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project
    From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
    Sorry. Vasek. Darn spell check -------- Paul Donahue Started 8-3-12 do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420645#420645


    Message 18


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    Time: 09:25:24 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Bingilis books
    From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    I am determined not to be one of William's dead friends. As much as I want to fly my airplane with all of the beautiful spring days we're having, my engine is not running right and I won't fly it till I get it to run right. It makes plenty of power if I finesse the throttle and carb heat up and down the RPM range, but it's definitely not running right. I have all of Tony's books but I have two copies of the blue one, "The Sportplane Builder", and one of those, older and worn now, is autographed by Tony inside the cover. Close observers of the photos of my magneto wiring that I posted a couple of days ago will notice that many people have autographed the inside (bare) aluminum surface of my engine cowling with a Sharpie, and one of the names, which is partly visible in the photo, is that of the renowned airshow performer and writer Marion Cole. I have a framed, autographed copy of Paul Poberezny climbing from the cockpit of "Paul I", his P-51, in my office. Paul sent it to me himself, in an envelope that he hand-addressed to me at my home. The engine on my airplane is a Continental A75 that has been rebuilt to factory original tolerances with all certified and approved parts and methods, and it has less than 40 hours on it. The magnetos and wiring harnesses are equally new and certified for use on this engine as well. The carburetor is FAA approved for use on this engine, a Stromberg NAS3-A1, rebuilt by an A&P who specialized in these carbs, using all approved parts and methods and in the proper configuration. None of these things changes the fact that my engine is not running right and that I could become one of William's dead friends as a consequence of attempting to fly it in this condition. The last thing I want to do is go silent on this list because somebody had to scrape me and my airplane off the airfield and call my wife to let her know about it. The point is, use good sense, discipline, and prudence... don't just depend on what you read in a famous book plus your good looks. The ground can be very unforgiving when you hit it hard enough. So for the moment, I'm grounded. As Jim Carrey says in "The Mask": 'somebody stop me!' -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot; A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420650#420650




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