Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:24 AM - Duane Cole books (Don Emch)
2. 04:59 AM - Re: Re: Bingilis books (Gardiner Mason)
3. 05:31 AM - Vasek (Douwe Blumberg)
4. 05:39 AM - books n' such (Douwe Blumberg)
5. 05:56 AM - Re: books n' such (Jerry Dotson)
6. 06:16 AM - Corvair Engine Long term Layup question (GrantZ)
7. 06:45 AM - Re: books n' such (aerocarjake)
8. 07:25 AM - Re: books n' such (Bill Church)
9. 09:50 AM - Re: Corvair Engine Long term Layup question (William Wynne)
10. 11:32 AM - Re: books n' such (William Wynne)
11. 11:44 AM - Re: Vasek (Vasek)
12. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: Tank (Scott Knowlton)
13. 12:57 PM - Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project (Vasek)
14. 01:18 PM - Re: Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project (Gary Boothe)
15. 01:24 PM - Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project (aerocarjake)
16. 01:54 PM - Re: Tank (Don Emch)
17. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Tank (Gardiner Mason)
18. 09:30 PM - Re: Duane Cole books (William Wynne)
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Subject: | Duane Cole books |
Since we are on a bit of a book subject... I am a huge fan of Duane Cole and his
family. If you have not read it yet, get "Happy Flying Safely". Terrific
book. It's a quick read and you can find it online for cheap.
Don Emch
NX899DE
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Subject: | Re: Bingilis books |
Oscar, Why don,t you contact Don at Don,s Dream Machines in Griffin Ga. He can
probably help you out. Gardiner
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 20, 2014, at 12:20 AM, "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am determined not to be one of William's dead friends. As much as I want to
fly my airplane with all of the beautiful spring days we're having, my engine
is not running right and I won't fly it till I get it to run right. It makes
plenty of power if I finesse the throttle and carb heat up and down the RPM
range, but it's definitely not running right.
>
> I have all of Tony's books but I have two copies of the blue one, "The Sportplane
Builder", and one of those, older and worn now, is autographed by Tony inside
the cover.
>
> Close observers of the photos of my magneto wiring that I posted a couple of
days ago will notice that many people have autographed the inside (bare) aluminum
surface of my engine cowling with a Sharpie, and one of the names, which is
partly visible in the photo, is that of the renowned airshow performer and writer
Marion Cole.
>
> I have a framed, autographed copy of Paul Poberezny climbing from the cockpit
of "Paul I", his P-51, in my office. Paul sent it to me himself, in an envelope
that he hand-addressed to me at my home.
>
> The engine on my airplane is a Continental A75 that has been rebuilt to factory
original tolerances with all certified and approved parts and methods, and
it has less than 40 hours on it. The magnetos and wiring harnesses are equally
new and certified for use on this engine as well. The carburetor is FAA approved
for use on this engine, a Stromberg NAS3-A1, rebuilt by an A&P who specialized
in these carbs, using all approved parts and methods and in the proper
configuration.
>
> None of these things changes the fact that my engine is not running right and
that I could become one of William's dead friends as a consequence of attempting
to fly it in this condition. The last thing I want to do is go silent on
this list because somebody had to scrape me and my airplane off the airfield and
call my wife to let her know about it. The point is, use good sense, discipline,
and prudence... don't just depend on what you read in a famous book plus
your good looks. The ground can be very unforgiving when you hit it hard enough.
>
> So for the moment, I'm grounded. As Jim Carrey says in "The Mask": 'somebody
stop me!'
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420650#420650
>
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Very nice progress Vasek!!
Is it difficult to find steel tubing?
douwe
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For the "nit picky" grammarians out there who choose to focus on my wording
rather than my message.let me clarify.
By using the word "mostly" I was softening my statements so as not to sound
didactic. I meant the information is "mostly" up to date and "mostly" still
considered "standard". If it's not "up to date" it is still very useful
and will produce a solid aircraft. Nothing on the Pietenpol plans is "up to
date" either, so it's a perfect fit!! I believe you could build an
airworthy and safe Pietenpol with nothing more than the plans, the Bingilis
books and some common sense. There are no procedures mentioned in those
books that aren't used in a Cessna 150.
Let's not become like journalists here, where we focus on one word used a
certain way and disregard the main point of the statement. Let's help those
people who need good resources to build their airplane, and these are widely
regarded as good (invaluable to me) resources to a builder, especially a
first time builder. Where else can you go to learn about fuel flow,
drilling, making fittings, toe-in, basic covering, instrument plumbing etc,
etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc....?
I say again, keep the books on your shelf. They will prove helpful.
How's that gentlemen? Clear enough??
Douwe
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Subject: | Re: books n' such |
Douwe I agree 100% with you. I believe tact is the word we are looking for.
--------
Jerry Dotson
First flight June 16,2012
Flying in phase 2
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
do not archive
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Subject: | Corvair Engine Long term Layup question |
I have purchased a builtup Corvair flight engine for my project.
It is a FWF from a 601 (owner wanted more HP). It has 4.5 hours. It was built
using
WW's full line of parts and manuals.
This engine will be in storage for at least 12 months. What are the best practices
for long term layup? Spraying the cylinders with LPS-1 has been recommended.
Does the crankshaft need to be rotated periodically?
William, please weigh in here, if you would.
Thanks
Grant Ziebell
Savannah, TN
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Subject: | Re: books n' such |
Quote: "Lets not become like journalists here" ...by using words like "didactic"
:-)
Actually, I find "Jonathan Livingston Seagul" to be the most helpful book for building
my Pietenpol.
There, did I stay neutral enough while adding to the spirit and helpfulness of
this message board....? Lots of good points made by all "sides" seems like to
me.
My welder comes tomorrow (to weld my landing gear) and I then hope to post photos.a
few days later.......!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
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Subject: | Re: books n' such |
Well said, Douwe.
As for the Bingelis books, do we discount the Pietenpol plans simply because the
spar splice as drawn has been proven to be improper? No, we don't.
Even though many early Air campers were built, and flew successfully using the
splice shown in the plans, it has been established that the splice joint is not
a proper splice joint, and should not be used. The accepted practice is to
follow the methods set out in AC 43.13-2B for splice joints in spars.
Likewise, builders are very unlikely to use hard cardboard for their wing leading
edges, or use "parilyn" (whatever that is) discs for the inspection window
at the aileron pulleys.
Should a builder blindly follow every detail in the Pietenpol plans? Probably
not. A prudent builder would take into account the fact that the plans were drawn
in 1933, and apply current knowledge and technology in their decision making
process. Likewise with the Bingelis books, which were written about 30 years
ago.
So, as with the Pietenpol plans, let's not "throw the baby out with the bathwater."
The Bingelis books are (and will remain to be) a very valuable resource
for anyone building a homebuilt aircraft.
Bill C.
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Subject: | Re: Corvair Engine Long term Layup question |
Grant,
I am glad to cover this, and some of the comment may benefit other engines as well,
but moving forward, I ask that more Corvair engine specific questions be
sent directly to me and I will cover them on our site. It makes sense for Piet
builders to discuss Corvair engine installation things like mounts, cowls, W&B
and performance in this Piet forum, but I would like to host the engine specific
questions like your on our sites and in direct email and calls.
It is good for the Continental guys to talk over stuff here, and maybe the Ford
guys, because they don't have the same support structure and info chain we do.
It isn't anyone's full time job to work out owners questions on other engines,
but with the Corvair it is mine, so we can gladly cover it and save space here.
As the season gets busier, I am just going to cover our sites and not be
here often, so questions are better sent direct.
The record for building a Corvair, letting it sit, then flying it in a plane is
11.5 years. As long as it is in a dry place, the engine can't tell time. Wrap
it in a blanket before putting it in plastic, (it cuts down on condensation)
and put a bare piece of steel inside the plastic where you can see it at a glance.
If it looks like it is getting rusty, find a better spot for the engine.
House garages are better than metal T-hangars, for both condensation and anti-theft.
It is a total myth that lead is good for aircraft valves. In the presence of moisture,
the byproducts of combustion of 100LL are very corrosive. Not an issue
on engines frequently run, but on 6 weeks to 6 years storage, it is. For this
reason, the exhaust needs to be taped shut. On a 4 cylinder engine you can turn
it to a position where all the exhaust valves are shut. I index the prop on
my wife's C-85 to be level for storage in this position. But on a six you can't
do this, two exhausts are always off their seat. (This is the only downside
to a very smooth running engine.) The best idea is to run engines on auto fuel
if they are just going to get a short test run before storage, and we do this
on engines we build and sell, and also most of the ones built and run at Colleges.
I just checked and you are 425 miles from CC#30 which will be held in Mexico MO
in September, and 500 from CC#31 in Barnwell in November. Advice: Pack up the
engine and bring it in, we will check it over and run it for an hour on auto
fuel. I will teach you a lot about it, and you will make new friends, and we will
feed you. This will cost you $75. Until I win the lottery, I can't actually
pay people to attend Corvair Colleges, so at this point there is still a nominal
fee for food, but the event is free.)
I know the engine you bought, and it is an outstanding deal. The guy sold it for
a fraction of what he had in it. He lived 100 miles from Mark at Falcon, our
northern service expert, but he didn't not want to ask for or receive assistance.
He didn't know much about planes. For example he said on the zenith list
that the plane "climbed at 750fpm loaded, but it seemed to need full power just
to maintain altitude" Trust me, by simple physics and aerodynamics, any light
aircraft that has a 750 fpm ROC does not need "full power" to then maintain
altitude. I can explain that to anyone, except of course a person who doesn't
want to learn.
>From owning the same plane with the same engine, and having 85 other flying examples
of the same combination, I can say with some certainty the combination
works well, I even have a builder who pulled a gross weight take off with a density
altitude of 11,900' on the same combination. Bring the engine to the college
and I will personally correct any maladjustments the guy made, for free,
even though I didn't build the engine. (I do this just because it was made with
our parts) Going back to what I said to Brian, most problems with auto engines
are people, not metal. I am very glad you have the engine now, and it is a
very good sign that you are asking to learn something. Welcome to the Corvair
movement, I am glad to have you aboard. -ww
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Subject: | Re: books n' such |
Just for a minute consider this:
I am not giving anyone a hard time, saying anyone is wrong nor even having an argument.
I don't actually think I am going to change the perspective of the people
who wrote in much. However, there are a lot of people who will read this
that you will not hear from, many of the non-professionals and new to homebuilding,
and my goal is to get them to think about information sources more broadly
and with a far more critical eye. I am sure that guys like Douwe understand
the benefit of the introduction of different perspectives and as an artist he
has certainly withstood far harsher commentary, with far less of a point to it.
I could use Douwe's comment on C-150s as an introduction to say that if I was doing
an annual on that 150 and told the FAA I was only going to comply with AD's
written before 1988, they would pull my ticket. Maybe that isn't the exact
thought Douwe was getting at, but my point is if it gets someone to better understand
that the definition of 'airworthy' is constantly improving, then I can
ask that people commenting have thick enough skin to allow some new builder to
understand that. Hopefully a list like this is about people thinking and learning
new things and not semantics and who gets to be 'right.'
Jerry, I am trained not to give any consideration to tact whatsoever, if it interferes with or dilutes a message of airworthiness even one percent. An aircraft mechanic who is even slightly temped to couch things in 'nice' terms because he is reluctant to tell a owner there is a needed giant expense, or his operation of the machine is deficient is a danger to his pilot and a stain on the trade. I was taught that by this man: http://flycorvair.net/2014/02/23/erau-models-of-integrity/. I took an oath, administered by him, to be the passenger's last line of defense, and if it was needed, I would forsake every other consideration to protect them.
If you work outside aviation, that might sound quaint. but I can tell you I have
directly prevented someone who was not previously listening, from killing themselves
and their passenger, by saying the message they didn't want to hear in
a way that would have been considered 'tactless' in an office building. People
get killed in planes, but Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is rarely fatal. The difference
in the Arena matters. I have also directly seen a pilot killed doing something
that 6 people present knew was wrong and very dangerous, but none of them
said anything because he wasn't a good listener, and people wanted to avoid
having a discussion with in terms that might get tactless.
If you would like an example of how seriously I take the oath: We had a guy who
was going to try 5 hours bottle to throttle, hammered drunk to actually flying
young eagles in our EAA chapter. When no one else wanted to be 'tactless' and
stop him, I told everyone present that my oath required me to physically stop
him, and I was fully prepared in the absence of other action, to remove the
man from his plane and beat him until he was not capable of flying it, and I didn't
care if this meant going to jail. I look at things in simple terms: I would
rather got to jail than attend some kids funeral and explain to his parents
why being diplomatic was more important than their child.
For more reading on the cost of not speaking up when others are trying to be polite: http://flycorvair.net/2012/02/20/effective-risk-management-2898-words/ and: http://flycorvair.net/2012/06/25/if-only-someone-had-told-him/
The easiest way to predict what an individual will get out of experimental aviation
is to ask these questions: Does the person really want to learn? Do they
become defensive when encountering different ideas? Do they look for ways to improve
their approach a lot harder than they look for affirmation that they have
been right all along? There are plenty of people who have finished and flown
a plane who would answer No, Yes, No to the three questions, the exact wrong
answers. Their flying plane dosen't mean that being willfully ignorant and closed
minded is valuable. It just means they were willing to accept a giant unnecessary
risk for themselves and their passengers, accept a greatly diminished
experience, and lead a stagnant life, all to protect their weak little ego.
-ww
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Hi Douwe,
Not at all. You just place the order and the other day you can pick them up. But
I am in the Czech Republic :)
--------
My production of WW1 propellers, trophies and constructions:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420683#420683
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Great advice Don. I have the low point in there along with accomodation for a
Curtiss drain. Looking forward to doing the install and the flow test. Thanks
for the feedback.
Scott
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 1:11 PM, "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> One more thing on the tank.... As Mike's uncle Tony says you'll want to make
sure the lowest point in the tank has the sump to avoid the collection of water
and to make sure it'll get drained out. Ideally you want a low point that is
low whether in the three point or in level to cover all your bases.
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420638#420638
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Subject: | Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project |
> Your sound system is not big enough!
Otherwise my work would not have a rhythm [Wink]
> Looks like the front fuselage is already stretched for a lightweight engine.
Is that true?
I am using GN-1 plans, but it doesn't seem to be longer, you think it is?
Concerning the ribs, I will use the original Pietenpol's.
And thank you for your nice words, I am going for a beer!!
--------
My production of WW1 propellers, trophies and constructions:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420687#420687
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Subject: | Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project |
There's a guy who knows how to enjoy his project!!
Vasek - Your props are beautiful!
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vasek
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 12:58 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project
> Your sound system is not big enough!
Otherwise my work would not have a rhythm [Wink]
> Looks like the front fuselage is already stretched for a lightweight
engine. Is that true?
I am using GN-1 plans, but it doesn't seem to be longer, you think it is?
Concerning the ribs, I will use the original Pietenpol's.
And thank you for your nice words, I am going for a beer!!
--------
My production of WW1 propellers, trophies and constructions:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420687#420687
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Subject: | Re: Vasek's Pietenpol project |
Vasek,
The fuselage looks AWESOME...!!!
Thanks for posting the photos. Lots of good information there.....!
Jake
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
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Scott,
It's cool to get to the point where you are putting finished products in the project.
Have fun and good luck!
Don Emch
NX899DE
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420691#420691
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Hey Don. I received the jig today, and now I have to figure out how to use it.
I have never used a jig before so I may have some questions later. Cheers, Gardiner
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 20, 2014, at 4:54 PM, "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Scott,
>
> It's cool to get to the point where you are putting finished products in the
project. Have fun and good luck!
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420691#420691
>
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Subject: | Re: Duane Cole books |
Don,
I share your respect for the Cole family. Grace keeps all their books together
on a single shelf. I have no talent for aerobatics, but Grace is skilled and never
gets queasy in planes. Typing the phrase "rolling outside turn" makes my
stomach jumpy and my equilibrium wavy. The first time Grace tried it with her
instructor was in an S2B, they worked on it for 10 minutes solid, I could hardly
watch, she thought it was "fun."
One of the unusual Cole books Grace has is "Airport Memories." It has notes and
photos of the 1,400 airports Duane flew in and out of in his life. It is filled
with great pictures of places some there, some gone. It has pictures of our
instructor, Chuck Nelson, as a much younger man, hanging out with the Coles.
Grace showed the book to Chuck after she bought it at a fly-mart. He had never
seen a copy. He isn't a real nostalgic guy, but he did pause and look at the
pictures for a long time without saying anything. The memories appeared to
come back in a flood.
-------------------------------
Books on flight that changed my perspective and made me think differently;
On the human condition: Fate is the Hunter, Gann
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate_Is_the_Hunter
on engineering: Slide rule, Nevil Shute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_Rule:_Autobiography_of_an_Engineer
on WWI: Sagittarius Rising, Cecil Lewis (Doc loaned me this)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecil_Arthur_Lewis
On human creativity and ethics: Boyd, Robert Coram
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Boyd_(military_strategist)
-------------------------------------------------------
If I had to pick a single book who's contents I treasure and have improved my skills
immeasurably, it is the 70 year old classic, Stick and Rudder. by Wolfgang
Langewiesche.
I wrote an article about it last year, contrasting it with modern books on flying
by authors like Rod Machado. The story below also contains a visual test so
everyone can see how many historic characters out of eight, they can identify.
Yes, I am aware that comparing Machado to Langewiesche is like comparing Dr
Oz to Walter Reed, but it makes a point.
Click on this link: http://flycorvair.net/2013/05/25/greatest-book-on-flying-ever-written-is-your-life-worth-16/
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