---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/01/14: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:27 AM - Re: GN-1 Landing Gear mount fairing (John Franklin) 2. 05:11 AM - cushions (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 06:33 AM - Re: Seat cushons (AircamperN11MS) 4. 07:29 AM - Re: Seat cushons (aerocarjake) 5. 07:42 AM - Re: Seat cushons (AircamperN11MS) 6. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: Seat cushons (Steven Dortch) 7. 09:29 AM - Re: Seat cushons (AircamperN11MS) 8. 09:32 AM - Re: Seat cushons (taildrags) 9. 09:59 AM - what seat cushions? (or Walmart) (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 10. 10:30 AM - Re: what seat cushions? (or Walmart) (AircamperN11MS) 11. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: what seat cushions? (or Walmart) (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 12. 10:59 AM - and for the record (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 13. 11:47 AM - Re: and for the record (Ken Bickers) 14. 11:57 AM - Re: and for the record (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 15. 12:22 PM - Re: Re: Seat cushons (Boatright, Jeffrey) 16. 12:39 PM - Re: Seat cushons (AircamperN11MS) 17. 01:03 PM - Re: Seat cushons (Catdesigns) 18. 01:51 PM - Re: Re: Seat cushons (Boatright, Jeffrey) 19. 07:03 PM - Re: Re: Seat cushons (Steven Dortch) 20. 07:46 PM - Re: Re: Seat cushons (Gary Boothe) 21. 11:01 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 22. 11:06 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:27:24 AM PST US From: John Franklin Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Landing Gear mount fairing Peter, My GN-1 has the cross braces but not the "N" shaped tube bracing. I think the plans call for two thin wood strips on the bottom of the fuselage (like the ones on the side) as well, but I'll have to check tonight. I was thinking that the thin wood strips on the bottom would be interrupted by the cross braces but I had planned to bridge the gaps on the wooden strips with aluminum "U" channel. I hope I'm making this clear and perhaps when I get that far along I can send pix as well. I think it's a good idea to reinforce the gear area as my mentor Jim Sury actually cracked his GN-1 fuselage on one of his first few flights. At his suggestion, I added some extra wood bracing in that area of the inside of the fuselage. Regards, John -----Original Message----- >From: Peter Johnson >Sent: May 1, 2014 1:42 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Landing Gear mount fairing > > >John, > >Thanks, its not so much the wing fittings etc but the area under the fuse >where the gear framework is fitted. This is a link to a photo of the >original frame i.e. No fairing at all, no additional stringers either. > >http://repiet.cpc-world.com/images/DSC00140_JPG.jpg > > >Cheers > >Peter > > >On 28/04/2014 9:18 pm, "John Franklin" wrote: > >> >>Hi Peter, >> >>I am also close to covering my GN-1 fuselage, and I _think_ what Oscar is >>referring to with the aluminum is like what DJ Vegh did as shown in this >>link: http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image-pages/02-19-05.htm >> >>I'm hoping that will work as opposed to wood fairings, which would add >>considerable weight. I did use wood fairings around my top engine mount >>brackets and will cover them with aluminum panels to allow for inspection >>and access. See following link: >>http://s897.photobucket.com/user/az-gold/media/CC%2028%20San%20Marcos%20TX >>%20%20%20Feb%2028%20-%20March%202%20%202014/DSCF0252.jpg.html >> >> >>Regards, >>John Franklin >>GN-1 / Corvair 164cid >>Prairie Aire 4TA0 >>Needville, TX >>-----Original Message----- >> >>From: Peter Johnson >> >>Sent: Apr 27, 2014 6:32 AM >> >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >>Subject: Pietenpol-List: GN-1 Landing Gear mount fairing >> >> >> >>Hi Guys, >>I am about ready to cover my GN-1 and was wondering if anybody had any >>ideas about the landing gear mount fairing. I have added some wood >>stringers under the fuse that stop either side of the gear mounts (see >>page two of the photos page on the website). Is this area faired or just >>left as is. >>Pics would be useful. >>Cheers >>PeterWonthaggi Australiahttp://repiet.cpc-world.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:40 AM PST US From: Douwe Blumberg Subject: Pietenpol-List: cushions Hello good people! There seem to be two "basic" foam-types regularly available to us. Open and closed cell foam. Think of open cell foam as a sponge. It's a matrix of cavities in the sponge material which are all interconnected and link to the outside so when compressed, the air is forced out leaving just the sponge material supporting you. Closed cell is more like a piece of swiss cheese where the bubbles are not connected to eachother or the outside and when compressed, act as little balloons making the foam material AND the compressed air in each little bubble provide the support. Closed cell is a bit heavier but doesn't squash down as much and loose it's cushioning ability when compressed. Memory foam is like this. My cushion is made of a couple 1/2" layers of fairly firm closed cell foam with a cut up memory foam neck pillow I found on amazon for $14. It even had a nice wedge shape which works well. longest flight yet was a 2.5 hr leg from Brodhead home and my butt wasn't sore when I landed. (other things were sore, but NOT the bottom!) Douwe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:25 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seat cushons From: "AircamperN11MS" Steve, Attached is a side view of mine. I assume you guys are talking about the pilots seat. The top of my seat back cross member is moved two inches to the rear. That makes it a little reclined. The cushions I have are actually Cessna 150 seat cushions. It may be tricky to do if you fuse is already built. We did this modification to mine back in the 1980's. Like Gary said, it is very comfortable. The front seat lower cushion is that expensive triple layered/density foam about 3 inches thick and the seat back is just a one inch single density foam. The only down side to the lower cushion is that it is as hard as a rock when it is cold out. When cold out I put it in my truck with the heater blowing on it during pre-flight to soften it up. So, there you go. Maybe this helps. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422660#422660 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_105_126.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seat cushons From: "aerocarjake" Good second picture but the first "seat" picture sure looks like a tailwheel...!! LOTS of wonderful information in that fuselage side view - thanks...! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422665#422665 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:41 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seat cushons From: "AircamperN11MS" Funny you commented about the tailwheel pic. Both of those pics were scanned together and are now one attachment. Consider it to be a bonus Pic. BTW, I changed out that tailwheel assembly because it made the plane handle like a Pitts when landing. The new assembly makes it a pussy-cat to land now. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422666#422666 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seat cushons From: Steven Dortch That Photo (the sideview, not the tailwheel) motivates and inspires me to make it like your rear seat.It also gives me ideas for the front seat. Thanks for posting them. BTW Looking at your steel tube fuselage. It has a very different feel than the Wood frame. Man that looks like a generation newer technology. radio mounts fittings attached to metal tubes. Also are the front to rear bracing wires on the left side of the front seat standard? I have not seen that on any Piets or Gregas. Thanks again, I learn and am often motivated by almost every photo of a Piet I see. Blue Skies, Steve D On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 8:32 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > > Steve, > > Attached is a side view of mine. I assume you guys are talking about the > pilots seat. The top of my seat back cross member is moved two inches to > the rear. That makes it a little reclined. The cushions I have are > actually Cessna 150 seat cushions. It may be tricky to do if you fuse is > already built. We did this modification to mine back in the 1980's. Like > Gary said, it is very comfortable. > > The front seat lower cushion is that expensive triple layered/density foam > about 3 inches thick and the seat back is just a one inch single density > foam. The only down side to the lower cushion is that it is as hard as a > rock when it is cold out. When cold out I put it in my truck with the > heater blowing on it during pre-flight to soften it up. > > So, there you go. Maybe this helps. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422660#422660 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_105_126.jpg > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:58 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seat cushons From: "AircamperN11MS" Steve, Yes the cross wires are on the left side on my plane. We put a door in for the front seat on the right side of the plane. The door is on the R/S to allow for no disruption of the throttle linkage on the L/S. Most Piets have the cross wires on the right hand side. There are also some Piets out there without any cross wires. My forward diagonal cabane supports are not very large in diameter and I feel better having the cross cables for the extra support in a sudden stop. If that makes any sense. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422674#422674 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:41 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seat cushons From: "taildrags" Steve; the seat cushions and coverings in 41CC are minimalist; naugahyde over conventional "hobby store" foam (and not much of it), wrapped around the plywood pieces and stapled on the back. I doubt if any of the foam was more than an inch thick when it was new. The seat back really doesn't matter, because I find myself leaning forward in flight anyway, to get out of the slipstream. The back does need padding, but I don't recline and I don't notice the seat back much anyway, so getting fancy wouldn't make a difference. The front seat is similar. The main mission of this airplane can be captured and summarized by the in-flight vignettes on Mike Cuy's video. You preflight, launch, go enjoy the countryside and the air and the view, then you let the airplane teach you some stick and rudder lessons as you get back in the pattern and shoot some landings. After you put the airplane away and look back on your flight, comfort isn't one of the main factors upon which you rate the experience you've just had. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422675#422675 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:00 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: what seat cushions? (or Walmart) Steve, I've never had seat cushions in my Pietenpol and it has been fine but then again I am a full-figured girl so don't need any extra padding. If you want a quick replacement right now is a great time to buy seat cushi ons at Walmart. They only have about 60 different kinds and a bunch you can order in different colors, have them shipped to a store nea r you or to your home directly. http://www.walmart.com/browse/patio-garden/cushions-pillows/5428_1102183_10 32001/?_refineresult=true&povid=cat1102183-env498421-moduleB050213-lLin kFC7Cushions_Pillows Mike C. Ohio [cid:image001.png@01CF653D.1080CA40] ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: what seat cushions? (or Walmart) From: "AircamperN11MS" Mike, You must be one tough cowboy. Do you ride horses bare back during the week to stay toughened up for the Piet?????? I couldn't handle that for more than just a few minutes. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422679#422679 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:05 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: what seat cushions? (or Walmart) Ahahha, well Scott I'm not a cowboy but I simply followed the seat slant/ angle suggestions made by my Uncle Tony in his books and that proved to be nice and comfortable. (I angled the bottom of the seat back out an inch forward) Tony also has some good seat cushion advice for back and m uscle comfort but of course the newer foams make these suggestions even nicer. I always said that the only 3 things I needed to build my Pietenpol were a phone, a credit card, and the Bingelis books and that is true today as much as it was when I started building 20 years ago. Mike C. Ohio ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:33 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: and for the record Tony Bingelis isn't my uncle but I always envisioned him as like this Mafia type Godfather of good homebuilding advice and because he was Italian. I guess I just like calling him my Uncle Tony too because he was ALWAYS the re on the end of the sofa on my little lamp table in the form of his books waiting to answer all of my questions when I would need a break from buildi ng or screw something up doing it my way instead of the way an experienced homebuilder would do it and do it in an airworthy fashion that would be app roved by the FAA. Uncle Tony always gives 2 or 3 ways to do a task too un less there is only one right and sound way to do it----then he makes that very c lear and I didn't want to deviate and go experimenting on my own only to fi nd out later that my big idea was a dangerous and possibly deadly one. Good sou nd advice always from my Uncle Tony. Good sketches and diagrams too and I learn far better visually than I do simply reading text. Thanks Uncle Tony. Mike C. Ohio ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: and for the record From: Ken Bickers Mike, Despite your eloquent preamble, I have a burning family question for you. Among the folks who have dropped by my hangar over the past few weeks to kick the tires on my Piet project have been two who referenced your uncle Tony but pronounced his last name in dramatically different ways. One emphasized the first syllable. Another the second syllable. The latter's pronunciation of that syllable was how one would indicate the tribe of Gauls subdued by Julius Caesar. So how is Bingelis pronounced? All these years I've seen it spelled. I didn't know what I didn't know, which was how to pronounce it. Cheers, Ken On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] wrote: > Tony Bingelis isn=99t my uncle but I always envisioned him as like this > Mafia type Godfather of good homebuilding advice and because he was > Italian. > > I guess I just like calling him my Uncle Tony too because he was ALWAYS > there on the end of the sofa on my little lamp table in the form of his > books > > waiting to answer all of my questions when I would need a break from > building or screw something up doing it my way instead of the way an > experienced > > homebuilder would do it and do it in an airworthy fashion that would be > approved by the FAA. Uncle Tony always gives 2 or 3 ways to do a task t oo > unless > > there is only one right and sound way to do it----then he makes that very > clear and I didn=99t want to deviate and go experimenting on my own only to > find out > > later that my big idea was a dangerous and possibly deadly one. Good > sound advice always from my Uncle Tony. Good sketches and diagrams too a nd > I learn > > far better visually than I do simply reading text. Thanks Uncle Tony. > > > Mike C. > > Ohio > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:22 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: and for the record VGhlIGxhdHRlcidzIHByb251bmNpYXRpb24gb2YgdGhhdCBzeWxsYWJsZSB3YXMgaG93IG9uZSB3 b3VsZCBpbmRpY2F0ZSB0aGUgdHJpYmUgb2YgR2F1bHMgc3ViZHVlZCBieSBKdWxpdXMgQ2Flc2Fy Lg0KU28gaG93IGlzIEJpbmdlbGlzIHByb25vdW5jZWQ/DQoNCkdvb2QgcXVlc3Rpb24gS2VuIGJ1 dCBJ4oCZdmUgYWx3YXlzIGhlYXJkIFRvbnnigJlzIGxhc3QgbmFtZSBwcm9ub3VuY2VkIGxpa2Ug dGhlIG9sZCBoYWlyIGNvbmRpdGlvbmVyLCBWaXRhbGlzLiAgICAgIEnigJl2ZSBuZXZlcg0KaGVh cmQgaXQgcHJvbm91bmNlZCBCaW5nYXVsdXMuICBXaG9tZXZlciBwcm9ub3VuY2VkIGl0IGxpa2Ug dGhhdCBzaG91bGQgYmUgYmFuaXNoZWQgZnJvbSB5b3VyIGhhbmdhciB1bnRpbCBmYWxsLiAg4pi6 DQoNCk1pa2UgQy4NCg0KDQo ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:29 PM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seat cushons That begs the question: What does your current tailwheel assembly that allows for pussy-cat landings? Photos please! -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine On 5/1/14, 10:39 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote: > > >Funny you commented about the tailwheel pic. Both of those pics were >scanned together and are now one attachment. Consider it to be a bonus >Pic. BTW, I changed out that tailwheel assembly because it made the >plane handle like a Pitts when landing. The new assembly makes it a >pussy-cat to land now. > >-------- >Scott Liefeld >Flying N11MS since March 1972 >Steel Tube >C-85-12 >Wire Wheels >Brodhead in 1996 > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422666#422666 > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:10 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seat cushons From: "AircamperN11MS" Hi Jeff, The best place to find Pics will be on the westcoastpiet.com sight. Chris has posted some pics on there. I ended up using a tail wheel fork from a vans RV-6. It was a gift and it doesn't swivel. The head of it is the same one in the post above. the wheel is just a $25.00 home builders special. I don't have any brakes on my plane so good steering is a must for me. You will notice that I have a very large amount of slack in my steering cables. It goes against most all conventional thinking but works for me. I can actually turn the plane around under its own power between my hanger rows. It will pivot around on the inside wheel. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422691#422691 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:21 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seat cushons From: "Catdesigns" Scott's Tail wheel http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Scott%20Liefeld/scott_liefeld.htm A few more pictures but no tail wheel shots. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/2013_west_coast_pietenpol_gathering.htm -------- Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422694#422694 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:10 PM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seat cushons Thanks Scott and Chris! -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine On 5/1/14, 4:03 PM, "Catdesigns" wrote: > >Scott's Tail wheel > >http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Scott%20Liefeld/scott_liefeld.htm > >A few more pictures but no tail wheel shots. > >http://www.westcoastpiet.com/2013_west_coast_pietenpol_gathering.htm > >-------- >Chris >Sacramento, CA >WestCoastPiet.com > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422694#422694 > > ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seat cushons From: Steven Dortch Spent 1-1.5 hours looking for photos of seats. I saw maybe 4 or 5 seats, about a million photos of cockpits from just forward of the seat. Lots of photos of control systems, Instrument panels, coaming, etc. Of course when I was looking for photos of windscreens I could not find any detail photos. Guess I will read Uncle Tony, and look at the Flybaby site! Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seat cushons From: Gary Boothe Guess I wasted my time posting all those pictures of my windscreen on westco astpiet. Gary NX308MB Sent from my iPhone > On May 1, 2014, at 7:03 PM, Steven Dortch wrot e: > > Spent 1-1.5 hours looking for photos of seats. I saw maybe 4 or 5 seats, a bout a million photos of cockpits from just forward of the seat. Lots of pho tos of control systems, Instrument panels, coaming, etc. > > Of course when I was looking for photos of windscreens I could not find an y detail photos. > > Guess I will read Uncle Tony, and look at the Flybaby site! > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:42 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. 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Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Pietenpol-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:37 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.