---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/19/14: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:53 AM - Re: OT Airport Management issues, WARNING LONG EMAIL (John Kuhfahl) 2. 08:41 AM - NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) (aerocarjake) 3. 09:11 AM - Re: NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) (Gary Boothe) 4. 10:14 AM - Re: NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) (Jack) 5. 10:31 AM - Re: NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) (glenschweizer@yahoo.com) 6. 10:54 AM - Re: NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) (taildrags) 7. 11:45 AM - Re: NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) (Michael Orth) 8. 04:10 PM - Progress Pic (K5YAC) 9. 04:34 PM - Diaganols (john francis) 10. 04:36 PM - Re: Progress Report (john francis) 11. 05:29 PM - Re: Progress Pic (V Groah) 12. 05:53 PM - Re: Diaganols (Greg Cardinal) 13. 06:05 PM - Re: Diaganols (larharris2 Harris) 14. 06:41 PM - Re: Diaganols (john francis) 15. 09:32 PM - Re: Progress Report (taildrags) 16. 09:44 PM - Re: Diaganols (taildrags) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: OT Airport Management issues, WARNING LONG EMAIL From: John Kuhfahl Thanks so much for sharing this very important information. John On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Fellow pilots, I got an education today. I am attending the American > Association of Airport executives Annual Conference here in San Antonio. I > am interested in going into small/mid sized airport management when I > finish with my active military time. With current military drawdowns I may > leave in 4 months or 3 years, depending. So I decided to attend this > conference here in SA. Please note, ALL OF MY NUMBERS ARE FROM MY MEMORY > AND ROUGH NOTES, I WILL NOT STAND BY THEM! > > I attended the General Aviation airport subcommittee meeting > this afternoon. I was able to follow along and even keep my mouth shut > (well most of the time.) > > Good news, the opinions expressed were quite in line with most > pilot/owners, (But not all). > > The Airport Cooperative Research program is looking at: studying airport > emissions so that there is a scientific basis for decisions, not just > emotion. > Innovative pavement maintenance and long term cost effectiveness. > Managing thru the fence operations. including revenue and future > developments. > Preventative Maintenance for the airport itself. > Best practices for aircraft fuel tank sumping.(we should be given options > that do not include pouring 100LL on the ramp.) > Mobile Maintenance coming onto the airport. (A&Ps working out of their > car) > Contract Towers > They were not surprised the FAA went after them.There is a movement in the > FAA to push this cost onto the airport. AAAE and other > > other alphabets were able to generate "traction" with congress and the FAA > over this. BUT if you have a contract tower and want to keep it, don't let > down your guard. Be prepared to fight this again. The FAA used this as a > "water test" and many states and cities found the money. > > 1 airport is looking at becoming the contractor to the FAA for the tower > so that they have more control. > > the Future of towers may move to cost sharing. passing the cost down to > the users. States, counties, cities (and as a result the pilots and > passengers.) A benefit/Cost ratio may be set up. IE how much does the > federal airway system get from this airport, VS state benefit, city and > county. > > If your airport and tenant are paying county and state taxes, property > taxes and so on, then why is that not being put toward the airport. > > > One airport may have to limit the growth of a business to maintain > security. The problem was "Uncredentialed" customers. > > anouther said that their flight school was able to cover credentialing up > until the student soloed by having them paired with a instructor. > > > They all agreed that User fees were a bad idea. The mechanism to collect > the fees would eat up much of the fees gathered. They also prefer the gas > tax. > > > GA airports will most likely lose funding. There are a lot of unfunded > mandates for the airports. The FAA/TSA alsways says "use your Airport > Improvement funds." > > The customary $150,000 given to small and medium GA airports will probably > be dropped. Again part of the push for the states, counties and cities to > pay. > > This group all said $150,000 does not pay for much and it would not be a > huge deficit. I said, maybe not for you but it is for a small airport in a > remote community. One manager told me that $150,000 would barely pay for > painting the runways at his airport. Anouther told me that to help a local > small airport get a new taxiway it took almost $150,000 just to clear the > zoning, various studies and get the plans. It took two more years to get it > built at $150,000 per years. > > DOT Alaska has FAA permission to manage their funds and is able to pool > the money and do bigger projects. > > > They did discuss the effectiveness of state airport councils and the > alphabets . The State governments vary in how much they are involved. > > More discussion of state vs federal benefits and costs. > > If there are 10 airports within a 20 mile circle the Feds will say, "Do We > need to fund all of these? NO!" the State may say Yes to some. > > One Manager said "Yes, they want to close some of these airports. But what > about preserving this airport space for the future? In Texas, you have > plenty of land. But when an airport closes on the East coast it and the > space are gone forever and you cannot afford to develop an airport in urban > areas. Fight giving up the space. > > > Remote towers were touted by one guy enamored of them. "you could put them > at many airports that currently have them for a cost effective price." They > have proven them in Europe. > > (I BIT MY TOUNGE. This is a solution where there is no problem. > Uncontrolled airports should be uncontrolled unless there is a real > need. SO SAYETH STEVE D.) > > > For years GA airports have been telling the FAA that they have set up > visual approaches that have some obstacles. The FAA then came up with a > plan for the airports to report these obstacles. The Airports did and then > the FAA Asked what should be done. Pilots from UPS, FEDEX, and some other > organizations (ALPA?) proposed shutting down the approaches until the > airport could prove that the obstacle was removed. The Airports reported > that only a few were real safety issues and the FAA agreed. Now the plan is > that if an obstacle is 11 feet inside the approach fan, they shut down the > approach, if it is 6 feet then they have to come up with a plan quickly and > if only-3 feet inside then they have longer to get it fixed. Airports > said, if it is on my land, no problem, if it is on a neighbors' land it can > be costly. One airport reported paying about $40,000 to top two trees. One > Manager said that a water tower had been in the fan since 1956 and had not > been hit yet. A counter proposal is being pushed that tightens the approach > fans to reflect the improvements in avionics and such. Studies have shown > that 95% of approaches are within the middle 1/3rd of the fan. > > > One older guy warned "anytime you ask the FAA to fix a problem. they will > fix that problem but it may cause 3 other problems that are all worse. > > > I have two more days of this conference and at least the beer is good at > the evening social (Shiner, Dos equis, and Modelo.) I also have lots of > squeeze toys, lights, pens and other giveaways for the grandkids. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > * > > > * > > -- John Kuhfahl, Lt Col USAF (Ret), President, KUHLCOUPER LLC ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:18 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) From: "aerocarjake" Hello good Piet-ple, Had a great visit with Curt on Friday - and it's a great example of having another set of eyes to look at a project. We were working on a number of things and then he stopped and looked puzzled...!?!?!?! He noticed that I had my rudder mounted UPSIDE DOWN....!!! OK, so it would have worked just fine from a flight/structure standpoint, but I would not like the nicknames/abuse I would have taken if I had shown up to Brodhead with it that way...!!!!! Attached is a before and after photo........ Great reason to have people come and see/review your project....!!! (not to mention Stan's BBQ) Thanks Curt.....! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423450#423450 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_before_after_193.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:19 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) Curt has a discerning eye. I, too, have benefitted from his input. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of aerocarjake Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 8:41 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) --> Hello good Piet-ple, Had a great visit with Curt on Friday - and it's a great example of having another set of eyes to look at a project. We were working on a number of things and then he stopped and looked puzzled...!?!?!?! He noticed that I had my rudder mounted UPSIDE DOWN....!!! OK, so it would have worked just fine from a flight/structure standpoint, but I would not like the nicknames/abuse I would have taken if I had shown up to Brodhead with it that way...!!!!! Attached is a before and after photo........ Great reason to have people come and see/review your project....!!! (not to mention Stan's BBQ) Thanks Curt.....! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423450#423450 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_before_after_193.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) From: Jack Wrong-Way Jake? Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > On May 19, 2014, at 10:40 AM, "aerocarjake" wrote: > > > Hello good Piet-ple, > > Had a great visit with Curt on Friday - and it's a great example of having another set of eyes to look at a project. > > We were working on a number of things and then he stopped and looked puzzled...!?!?!?! He noticed that I had my rudder mounted UPSIDE DOWN....!!! OK, so it would have worked just fine from a flight/structure standpoint, but I would not like the nicknames/abuse I would have taken if I had shown up to Brodhead with it that way...!!!!! > > Attached is a before and after photo........ > > Great reason to have people come and see/review your project....!!! (not to mention Stan's BBQ) > > Thanks Curt.....! > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423450#423450 > > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_before_after_193.jpg > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com Hey Jack Don't feel too bad about it. I was once asked to take a look at a guy's engine installation that wasn't making thrust. After careful examination, we determined that his ground adjustable prop blades were set at +7.5,and -7.5 instead of both at +7.5 degrees....an extra set of eyes helps Sent from my iPhone > On May 19, 2014, at 10:14 AM, Jack wrote: > > > Wrong-Way Jake? > > Sent from my iPad > Jack Textor > >> On May 19, 2014, at 10:40 AM, "aerocarjake" wrote: >> >> >> Hello good Piet-ple, >> >> Had a great visit with Curt on Friday - and it's a great example of having another set of eyes to look at a project. >> >> We were working on a number of things and then he stopped and looked puzzled...!?!?!?! He noticed that I had my rudder mounted UPSIDE DOWN....!!! OK, so it would have worked just fine from a flight/structure standpoint, but I would not like the nicknames/abuse I would have taken if I had shown up to Brodhead with it that way...!!!!! >> >> Attached is a before and after photo........ >> >> Great reason to have people come and see/review your project....!!! (not to mention Stan's BBQ) >> >> Thanks Curt.....! >> >> -------- >> Jake Schultz - curator, >> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423450#423450 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_before_after_193.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) From: "taildrags" Something tells me I don't want Curt to visit my hangar ;o) Just kidding... my hangar doors are always open, and this is one old dog who is always open to learning new tricks! -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423460#423460 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:03 AM PST US From: "Michael Orth" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) Would be great for inverted flight, though. Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Jack Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 10:14 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NMOP-3PI5dn (upside-down) Wrong-Way Jake? Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > On May 19, 2014, at 10:40 AM, "aerocarjake" wrote: > > > > Hello good Piet-ple, > > Had a great visit with Curt on Friday - and it's a great example of having > another set of eyes to look at a project. > > We were working on a number of things and then he stopped and looked > puzzled...!?!?!?! He noticed that I had my rudder mounted UPSIDE > DOWN....!!! OK, so it would have worked just fine from a flight/structure > standpoint, but I would not like the nicknames/abuse I would have taken if > I had shown up to Brodhead with it that way...!!!!! > > Attached is a before and after photo........ > > Great reason to have people come and see/review your project....!!! (not > to mention Stan's BBQ) > > Thanks Curt.....! > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423450#423450 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/rudder_before_after_193.jpg > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Progress Pic From: "K5YAC" I know that some of you have seen this on Facebook... but for those that don't frequent the site, here is a recent photo of my progress. Things have been a bit slow for a few months due to a variety of reasons, but I've never quit thinking of my project. Most recently I have assembled my engine at CC#28, fabricated my firewall, fabricated the front wing braces and cut my instrument panels. Now I am preparing to start rigging some tail brace cables and control cables. Anyhow... I hope it is inspirational for some. This was on display at our chapter hangar last Saturday for Learn to Fly Day. -------- Mark Chouinard Wings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing Gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423475#423475 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Diaganols From: "john francis" Today as I was preparing to glue in a diagonal on the bottom of my fuselage, I found that without bowing it, it will fall inside the longerons. In other words it will not conform to the curvature of the outside edges of the fuselage. Did others bow this piece or is it okay as is? John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423477#423477 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0235_493.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0238_162.jpg ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:02 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Progress Report From: "john francis" Looks great Mark. I wish you lived a lot closer to me so I could reference it often. John -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423478#423478 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:10 PM PST US From: V Groah Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Progress Pic Looking good=2C You have a lot done. keep up the good work. Vic 414MV > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Progress Pic > From: hangar10@cox.net > Date: Mon=2C 19 May 2014 16:10:06 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > I know that some of you have seen this on Facebook... but for those that don't frequent the site=2C here is a recent photo of my progress. Things h ave been a bit slow for a few months due to a variety of reasons=2C but I'v e never quit thinking of my project. Most recently I have assembled my eng ine at CC#28=2C fabricated my firewall=2C fabricated the front wing braces and cut my instrument panels. Now I am preparing to start rigging some tai l brace cables and control cables. > > Anyhow... I hope it is inspirational for some. > > This was on display at our chapter hangar last Saturday for Learn to Fly Day. > > > -------- > Mark Chouinard > Wings=2C Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Lan ding Gear > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423475#423475 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:11 PM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Diaganols Hi John, Leave it as is. This diagonal brace prevents the left and right sides from racking. It should be straight, not bowed. Greg Cardinal Minneapolis ----- Original Message ----- From: "john francis" Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 6:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Diaganols > > Today as I was preparing to glue in a diagonal on the bottom of my > fuselage, I found that without bowing it, it will fall inside the > longerons. In other words it will not conform to the curvature of the > outside edges of the fuselage. Did others bow this piece or is it okay as > is? > > John > > -------- > John Francis > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423477#423477 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0235_493.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0238_162.jpg > > > --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:43 PM PST US From: larharris2 Harris Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Diaganols Agreed. Leave it straight=2C as it is. It will prevent 'racking' and you do n't want your fabric sticking to all the underlying structure. Lorenzo ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Diaganols From: "john francis" Thanks guys, that makes it easy. Ill glue it into place tonight and be ready to place the floor on tomorrow! -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423484#423484 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:36 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Progress Report From: "taildrags" IF they had ever had a Learn To Fly day when I was growing up, and IF I had seen something like your naked airframe there, I would have spent as much time as they would have let me, walking around it and looking at how it was made and getting the proportions and geometry fixed in my mind, and figuring out how all the controls were eventually going to get hooked up. Then I would have gone home and made sketches and 3-views of it, colored my 3-view with pencil colors, put fabric on it in my mind, and then flown it. That is a dream machine for a dreamer. Thanks for sharing. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423488#423488 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:53 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Diaganols From: "taildrags" John; I see the picture on the wall in your shop. Those two airplanes flying together are just beautiful, and I have several other shots of them flying together. What a pair! If I'm not mistaken, the red one is 899FP, Frank Pavliga's, and the green one is 899DE, Don Emch's. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423489#423489 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.