---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 05/29/14: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:20 AM - Re: Re: wooden floats at SNF (Gene Rambo) 2. 05:17 AM - Re: headsets (AircamperN11MS) 3. 05:31 AM - Heat Muff Material (Michael Perez) 4. 05:38 AM - Re: Elevator & rudder hinges from square tubing sections (GrantZ) 5. 08:00 AM - Re: headsets (John Fastnaught) 6. 08:02 AM - open cockpit headset reccommendation (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 7. 08:29 AM - Re: Heat Muff Material (taildrags) 8. 09:14 AM - Re: headsets (taildrags) 9. 09:15 AM - Re: headsets (Michael Groah) 10. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: Heat Muff Material (Michael Perez) 11. 12:24 PM - Re: headsets (womenfly2) 12. 01:19 PM - Re: headsets (Ned Lebens) 13. 03:31 PM - Re: headsets (taildrags) 14. 04:04 PM - Re: headsets (taildrags) 15. 05:06 PM - Re: Heat Muff Material (tkreiner) 16. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: headsets (Ned Lebens) 17. 09:19 PM - Re: Re: headsets (Ray Krause) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: wooden floats at SNF From: Gene Rambo Love Arlo!! Gene On May 28, 2014, at 11:59 PM, "dgaldrich" wrote: > > The short story is that we got as far as having one pair ready to sheet with plywood and the looong pieces of plywood scarfed together. > > We had previous experience building fuselages is a short time at Sun N Fun and had plans to build all 4 floats in 7 days. Dick had the bulkheads cut out and I had the long skinny bits premade. What could go wrong? Let's just say there are some issues with the plans. > > Dick is writing up the story for the BPA periodical so I won't spoil the plot but we do have pictures (twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us). > > For the record, it wasn't just Dick and I. Skip Gadd and Ben Chervet from this list as well as others spent a LOT of time helping us figure out how the puzzle went together and fabricating pieces. We just fronted the materials so we could keep the (un)finished product. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423940#423940 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:41 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: headsets From: "AircamperN11MS" Oscar, I will show you mine in a week and a half. The intercom used to work very good. It is a bit sketchy now. Everything in my system is very old and could stand to be updated but is still proven and I would do it all the same again. I am using the David Clark headsets (10-30) and a sigtronics intercom. It is the way I have it wired up that is a bit strange but works good. See you soon. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423957#423957 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:39 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Heat Muff Material =0A=0A-I am just about ready to fabricate my heat muff and would like to know the best type aluminum to use. I don't have any large enough scrap pie ces on hand left over from other aluminum works. (5052, 2024...)=0A=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot...switch seats. =0AMike Perez =0AKaretakerAero=0ASTIL L Building... =0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator & rudder hinges from square tubing sections From: "GrantZ" Terry, That looks just like the idea I had in mind. Like I frequently say - "if it is a really good idea, someone has already thought of it!". I am not too proud to copy a good idea. I think I will go with clevis pins rather than AN3 hardware. Good sugestion. Thanks all! Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423959#423959 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: headsets From: John Fastnaught Oscar, I'm just about to cover my Piet. I have installed a Trig radio, jacks and a 12volt battery up front aft of the engine. Don't know the performance yet, but it has a integrated intercom and only weighs about a pound. I'm using modified David Clark's with ANR. The radio and intercom sounds great on the ground, flight testing to come. Jack N144JF ford powered. Sent from my iPad > On May 29, 2014, at 12:20 AM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > Okay, I have just about had it with not being able to hear the radio. I now have 4 to 6 different headsets here and there around the hangar and none of them is worth a hoot in an open cockpit airplane. I'm sick and tired of fiddling with wires, connectors, adapters, mics, PTTs, and all the tangled mess... and still not being able to hear comm without pulling back the throttle and leaning WAAAYYY forward into the cockpit and listening up. My little Icom IC-A23 puts out a good xmit signal (although it eats batteries fast) and I've figured out how to use it pretty well, but I simply cannot hear well enough through the headset. When the radio is used stand-alone on its built-in speaker and I'm in the hangar, I have to crank down the volume or it's too loud... but not through the headset. Why? If it can fill the hangar with good, loud sound- why can't it be heard when it's right in my ears, inside some cups? > > I obviously can't make a passive headset work satisfactorily so I'm ready to spend money on a noise reducing headset, but they all make wild claims about this and that but nobody says anything about open cockpits. I don't want a Bose, I don't want a leather-trimmed professional pilot's headset that looks dainty and costs $$$. I need something in the David Clark style that will fit the pockets on my flying helmet, and that works. If I find one and it won't break the bank, I'm going to permanently install and wire a PTT on the stick to get rid of the @#$%& Velcro thing with the coiled cord that gets tangled up in my seat belt and feet. I'm going to get rid of the @#$%& two-plugs-into-two-jacks-into-Icom-adapter spaghetti mess and permanently mount a headset jack out of the way somewhere. And I'm going to park a 14v battery out of a UPS out of the way in the airplane but where I can clip on a battery minder when the airplane is parked. Tired of changing AA batteries in th! > e handheld and if the AAs are good for about 1.5 amp-hours, the UPS battery should be good for at least 3x that. While I'm at it, I'll also permanently wire and mount my little Sigtronics intercom in the airplane and be able to talk to my front-seater. If I mount all this dead weight on or near the CG, it shouldn't hurt my W&B... only the gross (which is hard to exceed on my airplane anyway). > > Anybody have any good recommendations on a headset that WORKS in open cockpits and doesn't look like it will fall apart unless handled with kid gloves, let me know. Thanks for listening to the rant. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423942#423942 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:12 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: open cockpit headset reccommendation https://www.gulfcoastavionics.com/products/1459-classic-anr.aspx Oscar-this is the headset I fly with and it works out quite well with the a ctive noise reduction feature. The mess of tangles that you describe is very familiar so a hardwired system is preferable, I a gree but I've managed to find a good setup for my still-portable setup. Throttling back and leaning forward to hear and FBO's airport advisory or A WOS broadcast is still part of my routine but with enough volume on the radio and the headset volume turned up I can hear quite well during most modes of flight. I have unshielded ignition so normally I switch to one mag to help reduce ignition noise. I'm using a flexible (mounted internally behind my cockpit) AAE VHF-5 avail able thru ACS or Chief Aircraft. [cid:image001.png@01CF7B2D.5FF266A0] ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:35 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heat Muff Material From: "taildrags" Mike; you might check out Mark Langford's airbox and heat muff webpage, here: http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/airbox/ -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423970#423970 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:32 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: headsets From: "taildrags" Thanks, everyone, for the comments and recommendations. I'm starting to do my homework on headsets to see what might work. However, I've found the Quiet Technologies Halo to be an interesting solution and apparently very effective in high-noise cockpits. Wish I could try one out though. Anybody have experience flying with this equipment? -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423972#423972 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:10 AM PST US From: Michael Groah Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: headsets =0AWell Oscar, It doesn't answer your question on what headset to use but I have an XCOM 760 for my radio.- I just love it.- It has a built in int ercom, I can monitor two frequencies at once and it's light weight.- I ha ve the antenna inside the fuselage behind the seat and I can send and recei ve at good distances.- I use standard David Clark headsets and everything is clear and loud for both my passenger and myself.- My windshields are larger than some so that helps with the wind.- I'm really happy with the products I used though.- =0A=0A=0A(looking forward to seeing you at the W est Coast Pietenpol Gathering in a week or so!)=0A=0AMike Groah=0A414MV=0A =0A=0A=0AOn Thursday, May 29, 2014 8:13 AM, John Fastnaught =0A=0AOscar,=0AI'm just about to cove r my Piet. I have installed a Trig radio, jacks and a 12volt battery up fro nt aft of the engine. Don't know the performance yet, but it has a integrat ed intercom and only weighs about a pound. I'm using modified David Clark's with ANR. The radio and intercom sounds great on the ground, flight testin g to come.=0AJack=0AN144JF=0Aford powered.=0A=0ASent from my iPad=0A=0A> On May 29, 2014, at 12:20 AM, "taildrags" wrote:=0A> om>=0A> =0A> Okay, I have just about had it with not being able to hear the radio.- I now have 4 to 6 different headsets here and there around the h angar and none of them is worth a hoot in an open cockpit airplane.- I'm sick and tired of fiddling with wires, connectors, adapters, mics, PTTs, an d all the tangled mess... and still not being able to hear comm without pul ling back the throttle and leaning WAAAYYY forward into the cockpit and lis tening up.- My little Icom IC-A23 puts out a good xmit signal (although i t eats batteries fast) and I've figured out how to use it pretty well, but I simply cannot hear well enough through the headset.- When the radio is used stand-alone on its built-in speaker and I'm in the hangar, I have to c rank down the volume or it's too loud... but not through the headset.- Wh y?- If it can fill the hangar with good, loud sound- why can't it be hear d when it's right in my ears, inside some cups?=0A> =0A> I obviously can't make a passive headset work satisfactorily so I'm ready to spend money on a noise reducing headset, but they all make wild claims about this and that but nobody says anything about open cockpits.- I don't want a Bose, I don 't want a leather-trimmed professional pilot's headset that looks dainty an d costs $$$.- I need something in the David Clark style that will fit the pockets on my flying helmet, and that works.- If I find one and it won't break the bank, I'm going to permanently install and wire a PTT on the sti ck to get rid of the @#$%& Velcro thing with the coiled cord that gets tang led up in my seat belt and feet.- I'm going to get rid of the @#$%& two-p lugs-into-two-jacks-into-Icom-adapter spaghetti mess and permanently mount a headset jack out of the way somewhere.- And I'm going to park a 14v bat tery out of a UPS out of the way in the airplane but where I can clip on a battery minder when the airplane is parked.- Tired of changing AA batteries in !=0Ath!=0A> e handheld and if the AAs are good for about 1.5 amp-hours, the UPS battery should be good for at least 3x th at.- While I'm at it, I'll also permanently wire and mount my little Sigt ronics intercom in the airplane and be able to talk to my front-seater.- If I mount all this dead weight on or near the CG, it shouldn't hurt my W&B ... only the gross (which is hard to exceed on my airplane anyway).=0A> =0A > Anybody have any good recommendations on a headset that WORKS in open coc kpits and doesn't look like it will fall apart unless handled with kid glov es, let me know.- Thanks for listening to the rant.=0A> =0A> --------=0A> Oscar Zuniga=0A> Medford, OR=0A> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0A> A 75 power=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http ://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423942#423942=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =========================0A - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ==== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:01 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heat Muff Material =0AThank you Oscar...looks like he used 6061. I'll be ordering aluminum she et soon and hope to get started fabricating once it arrives.=0A=0A-=0A=0A If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. =0AMike Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0A STILL Building...=0A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: headsets From: "womenfly2" I fly a Cub and some open cockpit planes plus the Piet, go for the David Clark's 30-10S (Stereo) type and a Sigtronics intercom box if need be. DO NOT waster your money on ANR they only will work if you have a perfect fit around your ears and most of the time they do not. The David Clark's are the most popular brand in all types of flying. The company is fantastic in customer service, 2nd to none. The 30-10S are very affordable and even go on sale. You will not be disappointed. I use them for training. WF2/CFIS -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423980#423980 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:24 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: headsets From: Ned Lebens Hi Oscar, Perhaps you just need an impedance matching transformer between your Icom and the headset, something like this http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103254 It will help match the 8 ohm output of the radio to the pair of 300 ohm speakers in the headset. Works kinda like a gear box. Ideally you'd want something closer to 150 ohms : 8 ohms but I figure this one should be easy to get a hold of if you want to try it. Ned Lebens Working on fuselage On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:20 PM, taildrags wrote: > > Okay, I have just about had it with not being able to hear the radio. I > now have 4 to 6 different headsets here and there around the hangar and > none of them is worth a hoot in an open cockpit airplane. I'm sick and > tired of fiddling with wires, connectors, adapters, mics, PTTs, and all the > tangled mess... and still not being able to hear comm without pulling back > the throttle and leaning WAAAYYY forward into the cockpit and listening up. > My little Icom IC-A23 puts out a good xmit signal (although it eats > batteries fast) and I've figured out how to use it pretty well, but I > simply cannot hear well enough through the headset. When the radio is used > stand-alone on its built-in speaker and I'm in the hangar, I have to crank > down the volume or it's too loud... but not through the headset. Why? If > it can fill the hangar with good, loud sound- why can't it be heard when > it's right in my ears, inside some cups? > > I obviously can't make a passive headset work satisfactorily so I'm ready > to spend money on a noise reducing headset, but they all make wild claims > about this and that but nobody says anything about open cockpits. I don't > want a Bose, I don't want a leather-trimmed professional pilot's headset > that looks dainty and costs $$$. I need something in the David Clark style > that will fit the pockets on my flying helmet, and that works. If I find > one and it won't break the bank, I'm going to permanently install and wire > a PTT on the stick to get rid of the @#$%& Velcro thing with the coiled > cord that gets tangled up in my seat belt and feet. I'm going to get rid > of the @#$%& two-plugs-into-two-jacks-into-Icom-adapter spaghetti mess and > permanently mount a headset jack out of the way somewhere. And I'm going > to park a 14v battery out of a UPS out of the way in the airplane but where > I can clip on a battery minder when the airplane is parked. Tired of > changing AA batteries in th! > e handheld and if the AAs are good for about 1.5 amp-hours, the UPS > battery should be good for at least 3x that. While I'm at it, I'll also > permanently wire and mount my little Sigtronics intercom in the airplane > and be able to talk to my front-seater. If I mount all this dead weight on > or near the CG, it shouldn't hurt my W&B... only the gross (which is hard > to exceed on my airplane anyway). > > Anybody have any good recommendations on a headset that WORKS in open > cockpits and doesn't look like it will fall apart unless handled with kid > gloves, let me know. Thanks for listening to the rant. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423942#423942 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:50 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: headsets From: "taildrags" Ned; thanks for the idea about the impedance matching transformer. I see that it's rated 1000 ohms on the other side, but it's center-tapped on that winding. Could I not use one leg and the center tap and then have 500 : 8 (which is closer to 150 : 8)? In reading about some of the problems with headset volume, I did see that there were people who found that their headset receivers had 300 ohms impedance, but I didn't think mine would have that problem until I kept reading and found that most headsets weren't designed for use with portable devices. And of course the manufacturers don't list all the specs on their headsets. For as cheap as the transformer is, I can sure wire up a homebrew deal to test it. A jack, a plug, some shielded audio cable, the transformer, and... more spaghetti in the cockpit ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423993#423993 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: headsets From: "taildrags" By the way, if anyone is interested in hearing sort of what I'm experiencing (and how much it stands to be improved), you can go to the Quiet Technologies website, http://www.quiettechnologies.com/ , and click on the 'Simulator' button on the left. There are 7 simulated in-cockpit scenarios that you can pick. The first one is unattenuated cockpit noise in an enclosed cabin airplane and it's pretty much what I hear in my airplane with earmuffs on. I would be VERY happy if I could get what the second simulation is, which is with passive headsets. Everything else is just gravy. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423994#423994 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heat Muff Material From: "tkreiner" Mike, I could be wrong... but it appears that the heat muff shown in the pics is actually stainless steel, not aluminum. Due to the specific heat of the two metals, SS would be preferable in the heat muff, as it doesn't allow heat energy to pass thru it as readily as aluminum. A little more difficult to work with, but, it's a learning experience... -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424002#424002 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: headsets From: Ned Lebens Hi Oscar, Yes, you're right, use the center tap and one of the outside legs. The impedance ratio will then be 250 ohms to 8 ohms as impedance goes as the square of the turns ratio. I'll be suprised if this doesn't fix the volume problem. Good Luck, Ned ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:40 PM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: headsets Oscar, I have both the Quiet Technologies (Halos) and the Clarity Aloft in-the-ear headsets. I have used both these and my Bose ANR headsets in the Cub and in my Sonex. Both the Halo and the Clarity are actually better than the Bose headset for noise reduction. But, the Clarity set is MUCH better than the Halos! I think the difference is because the Halos have the speaker in the headband with "tubes" going to the foam ear plug. The Clarity actually puts the speaker in the ear. The "tubes", I think, pick up the outside sounds and let it enter the ear along with the transmitted radio sounds. The Clarity set transmits to the ear ONLY the radio transmission. The trick with the Clarity set is to roll the foam ear plug, moisten it, and get it placed deeply in the era. The foam then expands and blocks out the exterior sounds. The weak point of the Clarity set is that the speaker goes deeply into the ear and to removed it, one tends to pull it out with the relatively fragile connecting wire. I have pulled the wire out of the ear piece twice! But each time the owner (forgot his name) has repaired the set for free. He's a GREAT GUY! Several years ago I asked him about molded ear pieces, but he said they were not as good at excluding extraneous noise. I see on the internet now that several people make the molded ear pieces for the Clarity set. I plan to order these for a test pretty soon. The mic on the Clarity is excellent and excludes most noises. It can be improved by cupping ones hand over the mic while transmitting. But even without your hand, I think it is better than the Bose. I have a leather helmet, (always planning ahead!), and the Clarity works well with it. There is no headband, only a small wire around the back of your head that holds the mic. Once it is on and the ear speakers are placed in the ear, just slip on the leather helmet. You can't even tell the headset on on. I have not tried the Clarity with my A-24 hand held, but will try it and let you know. Hope it works. Hope this helps, Ray Krause Oh yea, I added a 12 V Oddessy battery to the fire wall of my SkyScout to run the radio and two instruments. I ran a charging outlet that I can get to through the cowl. Hope this does not constituent an "electrical system". No on board charging system. Sent from my iPad > On May 29, 2014, at 9:14 AM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > Thanks, everyone, for the comments and recommendations. I'm starting to do my homework on headsets to see what might work. However, I've found the Quiet Technologies Halo to be an interesting solution and apparently very effective in high-noise cockpits. Wish I could try one out though. Anybody have experience flying with this equipment? > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423972#423972 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.