---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/05/14: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:48 AM - Re: Accident discussions (jarheadpilot82) 2. 03:31 AM - Dewey's place (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 03:40 AM - damage repair (Douwe Blumberg) 4. 03:51 AM - Re: Randy Bush's Piet (Steven Dortch) 5. 05:47 AM - accident discussions V3 (Steven Dortch) 6. 05:56 AM - Re: accident discussions V3 (Steven Dortch) 7. 07:23 AM - grammar request [was: Re: accident discussions V3] (Dan Yocum) 8. 08:04 AM - Accident discussion V4 (Steven Dortch) 9. 08:33 AM - Re: grammar request [was: Re: accident discussions V3] (Amsafetyc) 10. 08:45 AM - Re: grammar request [was: Re: accident discussions V3] (Steven Dortch) 11. 08:53 AM - accident discussion V5 (Steven Dortch) 12. 09:23 AM - Accident discussion Synopsis (Steven Dortch) 13. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: Accident discussions (Yahoo! Account Service) 14. 09:57 AM - Re: grammar request [was: Re: accident discussions V3] (Ryan Mueller) 15. 10:03 AM - Re: Accident discussion Synopsis (Ryan Mueller) 16. 11:19 AM - an now......for something less painful...... (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 17. 11:59 AM - Re: an now......for something less painful...... (Jack Phillips) 18. 12:05 PM - Pietenpol Newsletter (John Hofmann) 19. 12:57 PM - Re: Pietenpol Newsletter (Gary Boothe) 20. 01:25 PM - Re: an now......for something less painful...... (Robert Bush) 21. 01:39 PM - Re: Pietenpol Newsletter (danhelsper@aol.com) 22. 01:42 PM - Re: grammar request [was: Re: accident discussions V3] (danhelsper@aol.com) 23. 03:51 PM - grammar request [was: Re: accident discussions V3] (jarheadpilot82) 24. 04:18 PM - Re: Pietenpol Newsletter (Gene Rambo) 25. 06:45 PM - Re: grammar request [was: Re: accident discussions V3] (Dan Yocum) 26. 07:44 PM - Re: grammar request [was: Re: accident discussions V3] (Clif Dawson) 27. 10:32 PM - Re: Re: Accident discussions (jim hyde) 28. 10:39 PM - Re: Pietenpol Newsletter (jim hyde) 29. 10:47 PM - Re: Re: Accident discussions (jim hyde) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:48:40 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions From: "jarheadpilot82" Steve, Great story. My point exactly. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424384#424384 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:22 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Dewey's place Good eye Mikeee! Yes, that is Dewey's place in the picture. I didn't see a biplane though, just his champ and his Piet. It was a pretty chilly day, but we all pressured him into some Piet formation flying for some photos. Visiting his place was my first adventure flying with some other planes in RE-PIET. There were about three or four old planes from Waynesville to his place. Super nice guy and a great little runway. He was actually a witness to my instructor spinning RE-PIET. He got kinda ticked and turned to me saying "you shouldn't let him do that" to which I answered honestly "I had no idea he was GOING to do that!". I hope to visit his place this summer. Douwe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:15 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: damage repair Don't fret it Steve, that repair will go quick! I promise! When you're building, or the plane is brand new, every bit of damage seems monumental, like you scratched your new Ferrari. After a while, you start to realize these just make up the life history of your plane and that it is unlikely there will be no dents and dings to fix up through the years. I totally freaked over some little runs in the paint and pinked edges I failed to iron down like I should have. Now, I don't even see them. While testing my new voltage regulator last week, I turned on the switch and was greeted by wafting smoke in the cockpit! I immediately turned them off figuring "WHAT THE!!!" Turned out that through a design mistake, I had turned two small holes in the fuselage covering. I have a voltmeter next to my leg in the bulkhead. The back with the wires protrudes into the forward cockpit and is uncovered. MISTAKE! The passenger seatbelt fell in just a way to get itself jammed between the two contacts, shorting out the ground wire and when I turned on the power, it fried the insulation. Since the wire ran between the fuselage wood and the covering, it burned two holes in the covering, smack dab on the side of the fuselage!. I was actually pretty calm about it and yesterday it took me maybe three hours to replace the wire, mount the new regulator, dope on some patches, check everything out and button her up. She's got a couple of new "war wounds", but I'm fine with that. Douwe ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Randy Bush's Piet From: Steven Dortch Good article, As with most Piet things, it helps motivate me. Blue Skies, Steve D. On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 10:33 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > Nice write-up...Congratulations, Randy!! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill > Church > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 7:04 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Randy Bush's Piet > > --> > > Just received the latest edition of EAA's Experimenter, and lo and behold, > there's an article featuring Randy Bush and his Pietenpol. > Congratulations, Randy. > You can access the magazine here: > http://experimenter.epubxp.com/i/323139 > > Bill C. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424373#424373 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: accident discussions V3 From: Steven Dortch Having discussed Stall/Spins and Power problems (engine quit or lower power.) and "structural" or non engine mechanical causesthe next area I separated out was accidents during landing.They have many 8 Landing 1 doing touch and gos, Just lost control I guess. 1 landing into sun, 2 Hard landings, 1 Locked brakes-noseover, 1 ground loop-noseover, 1 ran out of fuel on final , undershot runway 1 fuel starvation off airport, tried to =9Cstretch=9D glide pas t ditch, stalled into ditch. -- So to break this down . 2 involved the engine quitting due to fuel starvation and running out of fuel. With no power one undershot the runway, without more information I am not sure what to think of this. The other fell into the old trap of trying to get just a little more glide from the plane than was possible. While not super common this is a recurring theme. He was trying to fly past this ditch. I don't know that he had any other options. I might do the same, Might as well try to get past the ditch as hit the ditch and roll the plane. 2 were hard landings, both involved damage to the landing gear. One was blamed on a bad weld, the other not. Other than practicing landings, I am not sure that this is a fixable area. 1 loss of control blamed on landing into the sun. (one other crash talked about sun glare as factor in hitting a pole and wires), Ground loop? I don't know, Wear sunglasses? Don't fly then? WHat do y'all think? 1 locked the brakes and nosed over. I was taught that for a taildragger brakes are for taxiing and parking. they are not used for diretional control while taking off or landing. NOTE My 1948 Vtail Bonanza does not have a steerable nosewheel I have to drag the brakes to steer the plane. On that plane i must use the brakes. 1. ground loop with a nose over. Brakes again? Lessons learned. Stay off the brakes. stay ahead of the plane, don't run out of fuel. Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: accident discussions V3 From: Steven Dortch Just a thot, in the case below could a ground loop have been used to stop short of the ditch? What is the consensus on "Theraputic ground loops" to try to stop quicker? The other fell into the old trap of trying to get just a little more glide from the plane than was possible. While not super common this is a recurring theme. He was trying to fly past this ditch. I don't know that he had any other options. I might do the same, Might as well try to get past the ditch as hit the ditch and roll the plane. Steve D. On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 7:46 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Having discussed Stall/Spins and Power problems (engine quit or lower > power.) and "structural" or non engine mechanical causesthe next area I > separated out was accidents during landing.They have many > > > 8 Landing > > 1 doing touch and gos, Just lost control I guess. > > 1 landing into sun, > > 2 Hard landings, > > 1 Locked brakes-noseover, > > 1 ground loop-noseover, > > 1 ran out of fuel on final , undershot runway > > 1 fuel starvation off airport, tried to =9Cstretch=9D glide p ast ditch, > stalled into ditch. > > > -- So to break this down > . 2 involved the engine quitting due to fuel starvation and running out o f > fuel. With no power one undershot the runway, without more information I am > not sure what to think of this. > The other fell into the old trap of trying to get just a little more glid e > from the plane than was possible. While not super common this is a > recurring theme. He was trying to fly past this ditch. I don't know that he > had any other options. I might do the same, Might as well try to get past > the ditch as hit the ditch and roll the plane. > > 2 were hard landings, both involved damage to the landing gear. One was > blamed on a bad weld, the other not. Other than practicing landings, I am > not sure that this is a fixable area. > > 1 loss of control blamed on landing into the sun. (one other crash > talked about sun glare as factor in hitting a pole and wires), Ground > loop? I don't know, Wear sunglasses? Don't fly then? WHat do y'all think? > > 1 locked the brakes and nosed over. I was taught that for a taildragger > brakes are for taxiing and parking. they are not used for diretional > control while taking off or landing. NOTE My 1948 Vtail Bonanza does not > have a steerable nosewheel I have to drag the brakes to steer the plane. On > that plane i must use the brakes. > 1. ground loop with a nose over. Brakes again? > > Lessons learned. Stay off the brakes. stay ahead of the plane, don't run > out of fuel. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:09 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: grammar request [was: Re: Pietenpol-List: accident discussions V3] Steve, On 06/05/2014 07:56 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Just a thot, in the case below could a ground loop have been used to It pains some of us grammar Nazis greatly when you purposefully misspell the word 'thought.' The rest of your emails can be quite lengthy, can you please not try to save space when spelling this one word. In fact, you should type shorter/fewer emails and get your Pietenpol in the air! Dan curmudgeon-in-training do not archive do not reply it was too long in the first place ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:35 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Accident discussion V4 From: Steven Dortch 2-I would call these Controlled flight into terrain. 1 fatal-Buzzing. he was distracted looking at the road grading crew he was buzzing. 1 on final approach hit pole and wires, Sun glare. I guess the lesson is A. Fly the plane and buzzing is dangerous. B. Especially when landing into the sun, you might want to land long. Perhaps looking the landing area over on downwind would have helped. Please remember, I wasn=99t there, and I am just guessing in some cas es. You may know more about specific accidents that change the lesson. At first glance, the link on accidents sent by catdesigns AKA Chris to the accident information collected by Chuck Gantzer seem to follow the same pattern I saw in the data.http://nx770cg.com/Accidents.html I would suggest anyone flying a Piet (or any small plane) read through this information just to have a better feel for what can bite you when flying a Piet (or any small plane). BTW Chuck Gantzers information is well presented. -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: grammar request [was: Re: Pietenpol-List: accident discussions V3] From: Amsafetyc Whooda thunk it Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > > Steve, > >> On 06/05/2014 07:56 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: >> Just a thot, in the case below could a ground loop have been used to > > It pains some of us grammar Nazis greatly when you purposefully misspell > the word 'thought.' > > The rest of your emails can be quite lengthy, can you please not try to > save space when spelling this one word. > > In fact, you should type shorter/fewer emails and get your Pietenpol in > the air! > > Dan > curmudgeon-in-training > > do not archive > do not reply > it was too long in the first place > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: grammar request [was: Re: Pietenpol-List: accident discussions V3] From: Steven Dortch Ah the problems of the English language. A language in which 60 percent of the words are not of English origin. Thought before 900; Middle English thinken, variant of thenken, Old English thencan; cognate with Dutch, German denken, Old Norse thekkja, Gothic thagkjan; akin to thank Blue Skies, Steve d On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Amsafetyc wrote: > > Whooda thunk it > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: > > > > > > Steve, > > > >> On 06/05/2014 07:56 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > >> Just a thot, in the case below could a ground loop have been used to > > > > It pains some of us grammar Nazis greatly when you purposefully misspell > > the word 'thought.' > > > > The rest of your emails can be quite lengthy, can you please not try to > > save space when spelling this one word. > > > > In fact, you should type shorter/fewer emails and get your Pietenpol in > > the air! > > > > Dan > > curmudgeon-in-training > > > > do not archive > > do not reply > > it was too long in the first place > > > > > > > > > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: accident discussion V5 From: Steven Dortch Here are the ones that did not fit into any good category. Or I thought (spelled the formal way) that they were unusual enough to discuss again. EACH PLT THOUGHT THE OTHER WAS CONTROLLING THE ACFT-ground damage DEMO FLT FOR COPILOT.PLT WAITED TOO LONG BEFORE ATTEMPTING RECOVERY FM STALL. These all have one thing in common. First hour in the plane! FAILED TO OBTAIN/MAINTAIN FLYING SPEED, ATTEMPTED OPERATION W/KNOWN DEFICIENCIES IN EQUIPMENT, AIRCRAFT WAS NOT CERTIFICATED OR AIRWORTHY. First hour PILOT HAD FLOWN 1HR IN LAST SIX YRS.ENG TACH AND A/ AIRSPEED INDICATOR WERE MALFUNCTIONING Loose Spark plug, Stall/Spin LACK OF FAMILIARITY WITH AIRCRAFT first hour of flight unauthorized use of plane, Stall, spin. 0 time in type (HE SHOULD HAVE HIS TAIL KICKED) Power loss. FAA could not find out who was pilot The pilot/owners "did not want the FAA involved!" (Later explained as Carb Ice, no carb heat on plane, on first flight.) -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:01 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Accident discussion Synopsis From: Steven Dortch Synopsis of lessons Please argue, comment or enlighten. The goal is to have open discussion that raises our personal safety in our beloved Pietenpol. As pointed out by several Pietenpeople, there seems to be no inherent flaw in the design that leads to type specific accidents. Some builders may build some flaw in, but, built to the plans the plane is safe. The wing stalls and spins predictably and it is not particularly squirrely on the ground, even with the variety of wing types and landing gear designs. The accident rate and type is similar to other similar homebuilts. For Low time in type/first flights in a Piet/first flight for plane: Get current and stay current, if you are not current, go get some refresher training. If it is a first hop, plan the flight and fly the plan. For Stall/spins: Fly coordinated, Center the ball. Watch thy speed. Fly the plane, don=99t fly distracted (no texting!) A Good preflight is important, Don=99t forget fuel. Check for mud dau bers (never heard of a sand dauber) and spark plugs. During a engine out (or other problem), =9CFly the plane as far into the crash as possible." Don=99t get distracted from the number one task, Fly the wing. Be aware of Carb Icing. Carb heat is free! Know your plane, what it=99s stall warning feels like, and the =9Cfeel=9D of various flight regimes. Learn to land soft and not hard! Landings not Arrivals! Think about landing into the sun before you do it. Look at the approach and runway on downwind and plan your approach to landing. You will be blinded when you turn into the sun. Brakes are not for directional control. Don=99t use them except to sl ow taxi and park. (That is why I prefer heel brakes.) Stay ahead of the plane. Taildraggers like to swap ends. If you Buzz someone/thing don=99t forget to fly the plane. Make sure there is someone at the controls. A positive hand over of the plane is a good thing. Say =9CYou have the plane!=9D or =9C I have the plane!=9D out loud, don=99t assume. Now for some questions: When should you try to stretch the glide to get over something? When should you consider a ground loop as a maneuver? When you are about to hit a ditch or fence? Y'all be safe out there! Hear? Blue Skies, Steve D. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:05 AM PST US From: Yahoo! Account Service Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions -----Original Message----- >From: jarheadpilot82 >Sent: Jun 4, 2014 11:18 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions > > >Steve, > >Two things come to mind as I read your posting- > >1. Keep the ball centered. Why do we need a Rod Machado presentation to remind us of this? That is basic piloting 101. But, obviously, the fact it is a topic tells us there is a problem. If your feet aren't involved in your flying, something is wrong. Simple as that. > >2. Airspeed control. Not having flown an open cockpit, I can only go with what other pilots tell me, but. I have heard that you can hear the right airspeed from the plane. The wires "singing" a certain tone at a certain airspeed. Listening for it is another skill that needs to be learned. But if that is not what you want to do, and you absolutely must have a gauge to tell you your airspeed and altitude, most of us carry a backup airspeed indicator in our pocket. And that is a smartphone with a GPS in it. There are any number of inexpensive and/or cheap apps that give you GPS speed and altitude. It may not be 100% accurate, but at least it avoids the "I crashed because my pitot static instruments failed" line on the NTSB report. > >Just a couple of thoughts that I had. > >-------- >Semper Fi, > >Terry Hand >Athens, GA Terry, I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think it is a good idea to use GPS as an airspeed indicator. GPS only gives ground speed. Say you are on downwind with a 15 mph tailwind, you would be going 15 mph slower than the GPS shows. Could be trouble on base to final turn. Skip ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: grammar request [was: Re: Pietenpol-List: accident discussions V3] From: Ryan Mueller Well, that's fine and all, except it never has been a word. Except in rap music and Twitter, where it means "*T*hat *H*o *O*ut *T*here". Unless that is what you are trying to say.... Ryan do not archive On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Ah the problems of the English language. A language in which 60 percent of > the words are not of English origin. > > Thought before 900; Middle English thinken, variant of thenken, Old > English thencan; cognate with Dutch, German denken, Old Norse thekkja, > Gothic thagkjan; akin to thank > > > Blue Skies, > Steve d > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Amsafetyc wrote: > >> >> Whooda thunk it >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Dan Yocum wrote: >> > >> > >> > Steve, >> > >> >> On 06/05/2014 07:56 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: >> >> Just a thot, in the case below could a ground loop have been used to >> > >> > It pains some of us grammar Nazis greatly when you purposefully misspell >> > the word 'thought.' >> > >> > The rest of your emails can be quite lengthy, can you please not try to >> > save space when spelling this one word. >> > >> > In fact, you should type shorter/fewer emails and get your Pietenpol in >> > the air! >> > >> > Dan >> > curmudgeon-in-training >> > >> > do not archive >> > do not reply >> > it was too long in the fi= >> mp; Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >> ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" >> target="_blank">======= >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> ==== >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Accident discussion Synopsis From: Ryan Mueller tl;dr Pay attention to what you are doing. Don't do anything stupid. On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Synopsis of lessons > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:12 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: an now......for something less painful...... Thank you Bill Church for posting the link to the article on Randy Bush's P ietenpol article. Scroll down to read this good article on one of the guys who does a lot les s talking and a whole lot of buiding and flying. Mike C. http://experimenter.epubxp.com/i/323139 [cid:image001.png@01CF80C8.F8EFBFB0] [cid:image002.jpg@01CF80C8.F8EFBFB0] [cid:image003.jpg@01CF80C8.F8EFBFB0] [cid:image004.jpg@01CF80C8.F8EFBFB0] ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:05 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: an now......for something less painful...... Excellent, Randy! And Mike, thanks for posting it. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 2:18 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: an now......for something less painful...... Thank you Bill Church for posting the link to the article on Randy Bush's Pietenpol article. Scroll down to read this good article on one of the guys who does a lot less talking and a whole lot of buiding and flying. Mike C. http://experimenter.epubxp.com/i/323139 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:05:55 PM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Newsletter Hello Good People! While you await your printed copy, here is the latest pdf file to enjoy. My apologies on being even more tardy. I have a useless nephew who took his drug addiction to the next level and decided to become a quadriplegic. Given his immediate family shares the same moral fiber, my wife and I have had to arrange for his short term and long term care over the past couple of months. Lots of distractions. Now back to Pietenpols. -john- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:20 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Newsletter Nice job, John! You have a great eye for pictures! ;-) Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 12:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Newsletter Hello Good People! While you await your printed copy, here is the latest pdf file to enjoy. My apologies on being even more tardy. I have a useless nephew who took his drug addiction to the next level and decided to become a quadriplegic. Given his immediate family shares the same moral fiber, my wife and I have had to arrange for his short term and long term care over the past couple of months. Lots of distractions. Now back to Pietenpols. -john- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: an now......for something less painful...... From: Robert Bush Thanks every one for the congratulations, I appreciate it. Steve Ells and Mary Jones interviewed me last year at Oshkosh but I wasn't s ure they were going to use the story.im pleased with the way it came out. I've been flying the Piet every chance I get but since we have heavy rain to day I'm back in the shop building sonex wings. See y'all at Brodhead Randy Bush Sent from my iPhone On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:18 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LL C]" wrote: > Thank you Bill Church for posting the link to the article on Randy Bush =99s Pietenpol article. > > Scroll down to read this good article on one of the guys who does a lot le ss talking and a whole lot > of buiding and flying. > > Mike C. > > > http://experimenter.epubxp.com/i/323139 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Newsletter From: danhelsper@aol.com Thanks John! Great job! Loved the photos! Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: John Hofmann Sent: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 2:11 pm Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Newsletter Hello Good People! While you await your printed copy, here is the latest pdf file to enjoy. My apologies on being even more tardy. I have a useless nephew who took his dr ug addiction to the next level and decided to become a quadriplegic. Given his immediate family shares the same moral fiber, my wife and I have had to arr ange for his short term and long term care over the past couple of months. Lots of distractions. Now back to Pietenpols. -john- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: grammar request [was: Re: Pietenpol-List: accident discussions V3] From: danhelsper@aol.com Dan, Still taking applications for Board of Curmudgeons. Qualifications are stil l secret....but I think you may qualify.... Dan Helsper Puryear, TN -----Original Message----- From: Dan Yocum Sent: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 11:51 am Subject: grammar request [was: Re: Pietenpol-List: accident discussions V3] Steve, On 06/05/2014 07:56 AM, Steven Dortch wrote: > Just a thot, in the case below could a ground loop have been used to It pains some of us grammar Nazis greatly when you purposefully misspell the word 'thought.' The rest of your emails can be quite lengthy, can you please not try to save space when spelling this one word. In fact, you should type shorter/fewer emails and get your Pietenpol in the air! Dan curmudgeon-in-training do not archive do not reply it was too long in the first place ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: grammar request [was: Re: accident discussions V3] From: "jarheadpilot82" Steve, I appreciate your "thots" as it helps me stay on track with building and flying my Pietenpol. I do believe that is the purpose of this forum, however you spell it. Maybe someone can start a new Matronics grammar nazi forum where such discussions can be taken and appreciated in all their grandeur and relevance. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424412#424412 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:46 PM PST US From: Gene Rambo Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Newsletter However that black and yellow German got on the centerfold, I hope everyone knows that Hoffman and Shelley did all of the artwork. As lebowski would say, "it really makes the room"!! Gene On Jun 5, 2014, at 3:04 PM, John Hofmann wrote: > Hello Good People! > > While you await your printed copy, here is the latest pdf file to enjoy. My apologies on being even more tardy. I have a useless nephew who took his drug addiction to the next level and decided to become a quadriplegic. Given his immediate family shares the same moral fiber, my wife and I have had to arrange for his short term and long term care over the past couple of months. Lots of distractions. > > Now back to Pietenpols. > > -john- > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:09 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: grammar request [was: Re: accident discussions V3] On 06/05/2014 05:50 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > > Steve, > > I appreciate your "thots" as it helps me stay on track with building and flying my Pietenpol. I do believe that is the purpose of this forum, however you spell it. > > Maybe someone can start a new Matronics grammar nazi forum where such discussions can be taken and appreciated in all their grandeur and relevance. I'd be happy to ask Matt to set one up and you and Steve can be the first subscribers. 'pietenpol-offlist' sounds like a reasonable name. Snarky comments aside, I'm actually a strong proponent of dual lists for the same group of people/interest: one for those that have a keen interest in the topic, e.g., solving carb heat issues on model A engines, and one for general discussion that is only slightly related, like flying safety, to use the recent thread as an example. If anyone gets off on a tangent in the main 'list' people can urge them (quietly or not), to take it 'offlist'. Dan do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:29 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: grammar request [was: Re: Pietenpol-List: accident discussions V3] James Nicoll. "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down dark alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." Clif The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education. A. Einstein Ah the problems of the English language. A language in which 60 percent of the words are not of English origin. Thought before 900; Middle English thinken, variant of thenken, Old English thencan; Blue Skies, Steve d ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:39 PM PST US From: jim hyde Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions anyone that crashes because of a failed-speedometer-was not properly tr ained.. even in the big planes we are taught attitde . even the god damn bi rds dont have a speedometer... not long ago i was giving an AA capt. a tail wheel indorcement. the first question the dude asked was what are the prope r power settings?? my comment was well!-wide open and closed i guess..=0A sincerely,=0Aself appointed pietenpole oracle of the pietenpole matronics w ebsite.=0A=0Ajim hyde =0A=0A=0AOn Thursday, June 5, 2014 11:28 AM, Yahoo! A ccount Service wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-L ist message posted by: Yahoo! Account Service =0A =0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A>From: jarheadpilot82 =0A>Sent: Jun 4, 2014 11:18 PM=0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics .com=0A>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions=0A>=0A>--> Pieten pol-List message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" =0A>=0A>Steve,=0A>=0A>Two things come to mind as I read your posting-=0A> =0A>1. Keep the ball centered. Why do we need a Rod Machado presentation to remind us of this? That is basic piloting 101. But, obviously, the fact it is a topic tells us there is a problem. If your feet aren't involved in yo ur flying, something is wrong. Simple as that.=0A>=0A>2. Airspeed control. Not having flown an open cockpit, I can only go with what other pilots tell me, but. I have heard that you can hear the right airspeed from the plane. The wires "singing" a certain tone at a certain airspeed. Listening for it is another skill that needs to be learned. But if that is not what you wan t to do, and you absolutely must have a gauge to tell you your airspeed and altitude, most of us carry a backup airspeed indicator in our pocket. And that is a smartphone with a GPS in it. There are any number of inexpensive and/or cheap apps that give you GPS speed and altitude. It may not be 100% accurate, but at least it avoids the "I crashed because my pitot static ins truments failed" line on the NTSB report.=0A>=0A>Just a couple of thoughts that I had.=0A>=0A>--------=0A>Semper Fi,=0A>=0A>Terry Hand=0A>Athens, GA =0A=0A=0ATerry,=0AI agree with most of what you said, but I don't think it is a good idea to use GPS as an airspeed indicator. GPS only gives ground s peed. Say you are on downwind with a 15 mph tailwind, you would be going 15 mph slower than the GPS shows. Could be trouble on base to final turn.=0AS =========================0A =================== ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:11 PM PST US From: jim hyde Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol Newsletter are had-to- the right words???- i have always wondered why anyone thi nks that they have to do anything for an idiot other than to stay as far aw ay from them as possible so they dont fuuckup normal folks lives.. =0A=0A =0AOn Thursday, June 5, 2014 6:34 PM, Gene Rambo wrote: sn.com>=0A=0AHowever that black and yellow German got on the centerfold, I hope everyone knows that Hoffman and Shelley did all of the artwork. =0A=0A As lebowski would say, "it really makes the room"!!=0A=0AGene=0A=0AOn Jun 5 , 2014, at 3:04 PM, John Hofmann wrote:=0A=0A> Hello Good People!=0A> =0A> While you await your printed copy, here is the latest pdf file to enjoy. My apologies on being even more tardy. I have a u seless nephew who took his drug addiction to the next level and decided to become a quadriplegic. Given his immediate family shares the same moral fib er, my wife and I have had to arrange for his short term and long term care over the past couple of months. Lots of distractions.=0A> =0A> Now back to ============= ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:55 PM PST US From: jim hyde Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions as with any plane most accidents are caused by the pilot...- i do lots of flight reviews and am astonished by how many folks cant even taxi safely n ever mind actually make a turn..tony lavere spent 30 years lobbying for the -return to basic skills.=0A=0Ajim =0A=0A=0AOn Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10: 20 PM, Steven Dortch wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AScott, Oscar, Doug, et al.=0AY'all mistake my examination of Pietenpol accidents as-an attack upon-the design. Au contraire, I am a firm believer in the design as printed and built by many. Show me where I stated that I there i s a safety flaw with the pietenpol? =0A=0AI have-taken a rational look at the accident record in an effort to discuss safety. Notice the first thing I discussed was Stall/Spins-the=0Acategory with the most accidents. I do n't think the 3 main wing shapes are bad.=0AIndeed all evidence-indicates they are-very safe and predictable in a=0Astall. Yet people keep stallin g and spinning to the ground in Pietenpols. =0A- =0AWHY?=0ALooking at the date indicates that if you don't know how to fly a taildragger, or=0Aare v ery rusty, then you should get training in a similar aircraft before you=0A fly that first hour in your Pietenpol. 4 of 9 spin accidents were done in t he=0Afirst hour the person flew a piet. =0A-=0A4 (or 5) spin accidents ha ppened when=0Athe- Pilot got distracted and forgot to=0Afly the plane! So --The lesson here=0Ais to pay attention to flying the plane.=0A-=0A4 accidents=0Awere during maneuvering flight. Not sure what to make of these . One was in the=0Apattern. (Perhaps he was distracted) one was a stall sho wing off with a low=0Apass. (all I can think is that he stalled during the pullout.) One during low=0Aturns. (Keep your speed up especially in turns, a 45 degree bank will raise the=0Astall speed by 50%) One was doing aerobat ics that appear to have been stalls=0Anibbling at the edge of spins, Then h e was successful and spun the thing in. =0A-=0AOF 9=0AStall/Spin accident s only 1 was fatal. a testimony of the design. BTW this data=0Awas collecte d starting in 1969. -=0AThe only Non engine mechanical incidents in the d atabase are: -a broken wire due to a improperly installed turnbuckle.-T wo incidences of Push/pull elevator control-system failures (On a Grega?) that resulted in two fatalities. and one hard landing where a bad weld all owed the gear to collapse. =0A-=0ANothing else was found. But we should l ook at- accident data for lessons. =0A-=0AY'all be careful out there, h ear? =0A- =0ABlue Skies,=0ASteve D. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 7:23 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote:=0A=0A--> Pietenp ol-List message posted by: "AircamperN11MS" =0A> =0A>Steve,=0A>I have been around piets since the late 1960's. There are som e others that have been around -longer but probably not too many. After t hinking about the structural failure statement I made previously. I need to change that. I remember that a very long time ago (60's maybe) that someon e did fold a wing in flight. It was a result of negative G's and the lack o f jury struts. As a result I don't think that there is a Piet flying today without them.=0A>My question to the group now is. Do the supplemental plans now show jury struts installed?=0A>=0A>Cheers,=0A>=0A>--------=0A>Scott Li efeld=0A>Flying N11MS since March 1972=0A>Steel Tube=0A>C-85-12=0A>Wire Whe els=0A>Brodhead in 1996=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424371#424371=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>============0A>br>=0A-List" targe t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>=== =========0A>MS -=0A>k">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>= ===========0A>e -=0A>- - - - --Matt Dralle, L ist Admin.=0A>t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>== ==========0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A-- =0A=0ABlue Skies,=0A ==================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.