Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sun 06/08/14


Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:56 AM - Re: Model A (bender)
     2. 09:43 AM - Re: Pietenpol Newsletter (Tim White)
     3. 02:59 PM - Model A questions (John Weber)
     4. 04:06 PM - Re: Pietenpol Newsletter (bubbleboy)
     5. 08:45 PM - Re: Model A questions (taildrags)
     6. 10:35 PM - Re: damaged tail (tools)
     7. 10:55 PM - Re: Model A (tools)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:56:27 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Model A
    From: "bender" <dude@twc.com>
    I'm working on taking the engine off and tearing it down. .. it doesn't feel right at all. I'll find the problem. With the oil pressure and temps I had I would think it should have been fine. It's still tight after cooling down. . And noisy. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424511#424511


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:43:10 AM PST US
    From: Tim White <aa5flyer@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol Newsletter
    Thanks for the electronic version! Now I can get it in Florida and Ohio without depending on the US mail to forward. Online payment of fees would also be good. Tim White On 6/5/2014 3:04 PM, John Hofmann wrote: > Hello Good People! > > While you await your printed copy, here is the latest pdf file to enjoy. My apologies on being even more tardy. I have a useless nephew who took his drug addiction to the next level and decided to become a quadriplegic. Given his immediate family shares the same moral fiber, my wife and I have had to arrange for his short term and long term care over the past couple of months. Lots of distractions. > > Now back to Pietenpols. > > -john-


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:59:54 PM PST US
    From: John Weber <ransfly@aol.com>
    Subject: Model A questions
    Hi All, Hoping I could get some input from those that are flying behind Model A engines. We are helping one of our EAA chapter members with his Model A powered Piet. For starting, are you using a choke or primer system or will it crank up ok hand-propping without? Any suggestions or photos of your carb heat system would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. John Weber.


    Message 4


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    Time: 04:06:24 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol Newsletter
    From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3@bigpond.com>
    Fantastic John! Steve...let me check the correct way to spell cheque... Scotty -------- Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Fuslage now on its undercarriage! About to start wing spars...Corvair engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be modified. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424523#424523


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:45:54 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Model A questions
    From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    John; I'm sure you'll get some feedback from the good people on this list, but in the meantime, you can really get some good information on what you're asking by looking at some of the engine pictures on www.westcoastpiet.com . A couple of good ones come to mind: Larry Williams, Dan Helsper, Howard Henderson, and one of the real experts, Ken Perkins. Looking at the engine pictures of those guys' airplanes, you can see a lot of detail on how they did their carb heat. And looking at the cockpit and control panel shots of those airplanes, I don't see a manual choke control in the cockpits but there may be one right on the carb. I don't know Fords well enough to tell you. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot; A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424528#424528


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:35:32 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: damaged tail
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    The trailing edge spar of the horiz stab of 2RN was damaged in a ground loop incident. I've got pics somewhere of what it looked like before uncovering, not sure where they are, but suffice it to say, it seemed to indicate the same problem exactly. Upon removal and uncovering I found indeed the trailing edge was "cracked" and clearly some ribs were fouled up. The tail hit on one side as the plane rode up on one wheel, also hitting a wing tip. Similar damage was observed externally on the wing, in that ribs were upset. Turns out, in the wing, the spar was undamaged, but the spar in the horiz stab was. This first pic shows the big picture (a bit out of order, I made a scarf cut) how the ribs were damaged which is really what was obvious externally. The spar damage itself is shown here. Makes one consider finishing the break and just gluing the spar back together. While not quite a "fifteen to one" ratio, that sort of fix would indeed be clearly plenty strong. However, that spar crack is the least of the problems. Often referred to, probably not often seen, is the infamous "compression fracture". First, look at the rib failure. Clearly a rib broke that badly is now quite a bit shorter than it was, in that it's going up and down a lot more than it's straight neighbors. That crack, while resting nearly where it was, clearly was quite a bit more out of alignment during the failure. Look at this next picture sighting down along the spar. You can just barely see how the spar is out of alignment. That one crack cannot allow that on its own, and you can see where the spar takes a turn inward... A much closer look reveals this little gem hiding under a rib. A little protrusion that would be easy to miss. THAT is a compression fracture. The wood there has practically NO strength. The obvious first crack really is pretty strong, but here, the wood is COMPLETELY compromised and is essentially the same as a wind shake. Very much akin to column buckling. It cannot be repaired at all, it simply has to be cut completely out and replaced. This is a really nice example of it really, it could be quite a bit less obvious... which is why spar damage during any wing to ground contact is scary. It really may not be very obvious. Anyhoo, here's how I fixed it. Cleary, you have to scarf out the bad wood and replace it. To cut the scarf, I simply used a decent sized back saw held by hand. It's very low tech but can be done anywhere, I scarf cut all four of my fuse longerons to replace the tail post in the same manner. Also did this to replace longeron sections where the main landing gear mounts after removing the belly skin. Once making the scarf cut in two places, I carved off the top gusset inboard and carved out the old spar. These pics bring up a couple of worthwhile points. First, notice the gray wood? This airplane has spent NO appreciable time outdoors, ever. That's water intrustion. The bolts were corroded and there's evidence of water in the spar where the holes were. Second, you can see where the gusset did, and DID NOT have good glue joints. When you lay tile floors, you spread the adhesive and lay the tile, and press it in. GOOD technique would then have you REMOVE the tile and inspect how well the adhesive (thinset) transferred to the tile. Less than 90 plus percent of the tile having some glue on it demonstrates poor technique. The same can be said of ANY gluing operation, as tedious as it is. Third, you can see where some wood was never varnished. THIS IS EASY TO DO! However, water sitting in there, at the trailing edge of a stab, would easily cause dry rot where it would NEVER be caught during any sort of inspection short of uncovering after total dismantling. Food for thought. Cutting the replacement part is tricky. When tapers like this are involved, length errors compound quickly. I milled up some extra spar material and made one half... Cut the other half... Used some common witness marks... To get a good pattern for the replacement part. The new part fit well and I was quite happy with the repair. Here's a pic of all the new wood required to effect the repair: Repairs are always daunting because you have to undo something before making progress. In the end, it's ALWAYS faster than starting from scratch. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424530#424530


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:55:28 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Model A
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    Water temp and bearing clearance deficiency don't necessarily correlate. I had a early 40's Allis B tractor that used to seize due to NO oil flow all the time... Embarrassingly it took me a couple years to figure that out! To make a long story short, due to NO oil flow, it would heat up, bearing clearance would disappear and it would seize. When it cooled down, started and ran good. After two years of this, I figured it out, removed the clog and it has run good since, apparently no real damage. it's about a 20 hp 4 cylinder overhead valve gas burning engine. During that entire time, the operable and observed water temp gauge NEVER showed a problem. After all, it's a water temp gauge, not a bearing temp gauge. Never showed obvious signs of overheating (smoking block, radiator blowing it's top, knocking, water loss, anything), it would suddenly lose power and quit. Wouldn't restart. I kept assuming it was the fault of a bad ground and the usual problems with a six volt system. Obtaining proper bearing clearance isn't trival. I had an engine rebuilt by the (then) editor of Hot Rod magazine. He sent the engine out to his normal engine shop. If there's ANYONE you'd think he'd do a good job for, it would be the current editor of a national car enthusiast magazine. However, it was Jeff's practice to double check clearance by putting in the inserts, torquing the caps down and simply measuring with good tools. He sent the block back TWICE before it was correct. He said this was pretty normal. The clearances were good enough that the engine would have run well, but wouldn't have had the longevity it should have had... The point is, even though a reputable builder built the engine, it's possible you simply have clearance issues that need to be double checked. The other possibility is a clogged oil passage (I'm not familiar with the entire oil system of a model a... am now pretty familiar with the venerable Allis model B!). I'd check those issues for sure. Would love to know what you find out! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424531#424531




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