Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:56 AM - Re: Model A (bender)
2. 09:43 AM - Re: Pietenpol Newsletter (Tim White)
3. 02:59 PM - Model A questions (John Weber)
4. 04:06 PM - Re: Pietenpol Newsletter (bubbleboy)
5. 08:45 PM - Re: Model A questions (taildrags)
6. 10:35 PM - Re: damaged tail (tools)
7. 10:55 PM - Re: Model A (tools)
Message 1
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I'm working on taking the engine off and tearing it down. .. it doesn't feel right
at all. I'll find the problem. With the oil pressure and temps I had I would
think it should have been fine. It's still tight after cooling down. . And
noisy.
Jeff
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Newsletter |
Thanks for the electronic version! Now I can get it in Florida and Ohio
without depending on the US mail to forward. Online payment of fees
would also be good.
Tim White
On 6/5/2014 3:04 PM, John Hofmann wrote:
> Hello Good People!
>
> While you await your printed copy, here is the latest pdf file to enjoy. My apologies
on being even more tardy. I have a useless nephew who took his drug addiction
to the next level and decided to become a quadriplegic. Given his immediate
family shares the same moral fiber, my wife and I have had to arrange for
his short term and long term care over the past couple of months. Lots of distractions.
>
> Now back to Pietenpols.
>
> -john-
Message 3
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| Subject: | Model A questions |
Hi All,
Hoping I could get some input from those that are flying behind Model A engines.
We are helping one of our EAA chapter members with his Model A powered Piet.
For starting, are you using a choke or primer system or will it crank up
ok hand-propping without? Any suggestions or photos of your carb heat system
would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. John Weber.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol Newsletter |
Fantastic John!
Steve...let me check the correct way to spell cheque...
Scotty
--------
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Fuslage now on its undercarriage! About to start wing spars...Corvair engine at
Roy's Garage waiting to be modified.
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Model A questions |
John;
I'm sure you'll get some feedback from the good people on this list, but in the meantime, you can really get some good information on what you're asking by looking at some of the engine pictures on www.westcoastpiet.com .
A couple of good ones come to mind: Larry Williams, Dan Helsper, Howard Henderson,
and one of the real experts, Ken Perkins. Looking at the engine pictures
of those guys' airplanes, you can see a lot of detail on how they did their carb
heat. And looking at the cockpit and control panel shots of those airplanes,
I don't see a manual choke control in the cockpits but there may be one right
on the carb. I don't know Fords well enough to tell you.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: damaged tail |
The trailing edge spar of the horiz stab of 2RN was damaged in a ground loop incident.
I've got pics somewhere of what it looked like before uncovering, not
sure where they are, but suffice it to say, it seemed to indicate the same problem
exactly.
Upon removal and uncovering I found indeed the trailing edge was "cracked" and
clearly some ribs were fouled up. The tail hit on one side as the plane rode
up on one wheel, also hitting a wing tip. Similar damage was observed externally
on the wing, in that ribs were upset.
Turns out, in the wing, the spar was undamaged, but the spar in the horiz stab
was. This first pic shows the big picture (a bit out of order, I made a scarf
cut) how the ribs were damaged which is really what was obvious externally.
The spar damage itself is shown here. Makes one consider finishing the break and
just gluing the spar back together. While not quite a "fifteen to one" ratio,
that sort of fix would indeed be clearly plenty strong.
However, that spar crack is the least of the problems. Often referred to, probably
not often seen, is the infamous "compression fracture". First, look at the
rib failure. Clearly a rib broke that badly is now quite a bit shorter than
it was, in that it's going up and down a lot more than it's straight neighbors.
That crack, while resting nearly where it was, clearly was quite a bit more
out of alignment during the failure. Look at this next picture sighting down
along the spar. You can just barely see how the spar is out of alignment.
That one crack cannot allow that on its own, and you can see where the spar takes
a turn inward...
A much closer look reveals this little gem hiding under a rib. A little protrusion
that would be easy to miss.
THAT is a compression fracture. The wood there has practically NO strength. The
obvious first crack really is pretty strong, but here, the wood is COMPLETELY
compromised and is essentially the same as a wind shake. Very much akin to
column buckling. It cannot be repaired at all, it simply has to be cut completely
out and replaced.
This is a really nice example of it really, it could be quite a bit less obvious...
which is why spar damage during any wing to ground contact is scary. It
really may not be very obvious.
Anyhoo, here's how I fixed it.
Cleary, you have to scarf out the bad wood and replace it. To cut the scarf, I
simply used a decent sized back saw held by hand. It's very low tech but can
be done anywhere, I scarf cut all four of my fuse longerons to replace the tail
post in the same manner. Also did this to replace longeron sections where
the main landing gear mounts after removing the belly skin.
Once making the scarf cut in two places, I carved off the top gusset inboard and
carved out the old spar.
These pics bring up a couple of worthwhile points. First, notice the gray wood?
This airplane has spent NO appreciable time outdoors, ever. That's water intrustion.
The bolts were corroded and there's evidence of water in the spar
where the holes were.
Second, you can see where the gusset did, and DID NOT have good glue joints. When
you lay tile floors, you spread the adhesive and lay the tile, and press it
in. GOOD technique would then have you REMOVE the tile and inspect how well
the adhesive (thinset) transferred to the tile. Less than 90 plus percent of
the tile having some glue on it demonstrates poor technique. The same can be
said of ANY gluing operation, as tedious as it is.
Third, you can see where some wood was never varnished. THIS IS EASY TO DO! However,
water sitting in there, at the trailing edge of a stab, would easily cause
dry rot where it would NEVER be caught during any sort of inspection short
of uncovering after total dismantling. Food for thought.
Cutting the replacement part is tricky. When tapers like this are involved, length
errors compound quickly. I milled up some extra spar material and made one
half...
Cut the other half...
Used some common witness marks...
To get a good pattern for the replacement part.
The new part fit well and I was quite happy with the repair. Here's a pic of all
the new wood required to effect the repair:
Repairs are always daunting because you have to undo something before making progress.
In the end, it's ALWAYS faster than starting from scratch.
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Message 7
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Water temp and bearing clearance deficiency don't necessarily correlate. I had
a early 40's Allis B tractor that used to seize due to NO oil flow all the time...
Embarrassingly it took me a couple years to figure that out!
To make a long story short, due to NO oil flow, it would heat up, bearing clearance
would disappear and it would seize. When it cooled down, started and ran
good. After two years of this, I figured it out, removed the clog and it has
run good since, apparently no real damage. it's about a 20 hp 4 cylinder overhead
valve gas burning engine.
During that entire time, the operable and observed water temp gauge NEVER showed
a problem. After all, it's a water temp gauge, not a bearing temp gauge. Never
showed obvious signs of overheating (smoking block, radiator blowing it's
top, knocking, water loss, anything), it would suddenly lose power and quit.
Wouldn't restart. I kept assuming it was the fault of a bad ground and the usual
problems with a six volt system.
Obtaining proper bearing clearance isn't trival. I had an engine rebuilt by the
(then) editor of Hot Rod magazine. He sent the engine out to his normal engine
shop. If there's ANYONE you'd think he'd do a good job for, it would be the
current editor of a national car enthusiast magazine. However, it was Jeff's
practice to double check clearance by putting in the inserts, torquing the
caps down and simply measuring with good tools. He sent the block back TWICE
before it was correct. He said this was pretty normal.
The clearances were good enough that the engine would have run well, but wouldn't
have had the longevity it should have had...
The point is, even though a reputable builder built the engine, it's possible you
simply have clearance issues that need to be double checked. The other possibility
is a clogged oil passage (I'm not familiar with the entire oil system
of a model a... am now pretty familiar with the venerable Allis model B!). I'd
check those issues for sure.
Would love to know what you find out!
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