---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/21/14: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:19 AM - Struts (Scott Knowlton) 2. 09:58 AM - Re: model A engine (Brett Phillips) 3. 10:21 AM - Re: model A engine (bender) 4. 10:31 AM - Re: model A engine (BYD) 5. 12:14 PM - Re: Hinge Tail Feathers (namrednos) 6. 01:33 PM - Re: Covering (Steven Dortch) 7. 03:15 PM - drain grommets (Steven Dortch) 8. 03:16 PM - biased ply tape around edges (Steven Dortch) 9. 03:55 PM - Re: drain grommets (Ryan Mueller) 10. 05:14 PM - Re: drain grommets (shad bell) 11. 05:25 PM - Re: biased ply tape around edges (shad bell) 12. 05:56 PM - Re: drain grommets (Jack Phillips) 13. 07:00 PM - Re: drain grommets (jarheadpilot82) 14. 07:13 PM - Re: drain grommets (Steven Dortch) 15. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: drain grommets (Ryan Mueller) 16. 08:03 PM - Re: drain grommets (Ken Bickers) 17. 08:09 PM - Re: drain grommets (shad bell) 18. 08:54 PM - Wing attachments (Steven Dortch) 19. 09:51 PM - Re: Wing attachments (shad bell) 20. 09:57 PM - Re: Wing attachments (shad bell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Struts From: Scott Knowlton For those builders who do not yet have struts for their project I know of a very nice set that are available in Ontario, Canada. They were purpose built for a plans built Pietenpol with .035 streamlined 4130 and all four have proper aircraft fork ends. They were epoxy primed and are painted black. The aircraft owner has opted for J3 style sealed struts instead so these (according to the AME who is building the Piet) are surplus to the owner's requirements. I know the AME and can put anyone interested in touch with him for more details. Contact me off list if interested. Happy flying this weekend! Scott Knowlton Builder in Burlington Ontario Sent from my iPhone ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:58:54 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: model A engine From: "Brett Phillips" Jeff: Can you tell who the manufacturer of these pistons was? -------- PLEASE DO NOT ARCHIVE! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425208#425208 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:39 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: model A engine From: "bender" I'm not sure.. the new ones I just got in are Sealed Power. and they only measure about .002 clearance. SP only list the min clearance as .001 and no max listed. and I'm not giving up yet but I have an A-65 in the waiting for me. Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425209#425209 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: model A engine From: "BYD" I have what I consider a bit more traditional Model-A engine in that it has round pistons and babbit bearings but when I first went to start it, it was extremely tight and after it ran for a bit you could barely pull the prop through. In researching break-in, many spoke of running the engine in for quite a while on the ground and a couple said about 20-hours minimum. I ran mine at various RPMs during each session (from 30 to 60 minutes) until I had 22-hours on it and by that time I had tweaked all the adjustments and when I first flew I felt very confident in the engine. It may have been over-kill, but Im happy I did it that way. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425210#425210 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hinge Tail Feathers From: "namrednos" I have decided to use .080 4130 with #10 100deg flat head screws and locking nuts. The welded plans style hinge will be easer to cover with the hinge installed. Thanks to everyone who gave me so much help. !? -------- Scott Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425214#425214 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:33:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering From: Steven Dortch Douwe, exactly where do you suggest the Anti chafe tape? applied to any wood It won't be glued to? Blue Skies, Steve D On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Douwe wrote: > > I'd add some anti chafe tape to that list > > The covering on the tail is right in the slipstream and vibrates a ton. > Cover the structure where it'll wear the covering. > > You'll also want a strip over each rib on the outside of the covering so > the stitching doesn't tear thru > > You wife's iron will likely get something on it, don't ask how I learned > this... > > Oh, and don't use a heat gun... > > Douwe > > Sent from my iPhone > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: drain grommets From: Steven Dortch I did not order drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a good replacement? How far out to space them? There were grommets on trailing edge of the bottom edge. -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: biased ply tape around edges From: Steven Dortch I ordered linear pinked tape. Should I get some bias pinked tape for the edges? -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drain grommets From: Ryan Mueller Ya know, with all these questions you have, it's too bad there's not some kind of a printed collection of instructions, tips, tricks, or hints....a "manual" of sorts, available for purchase from the manufacturer.... Sent from my mobile device On Jun 21, 2014 5:23 PM, "Steven Dortch" wrote: > > I did not order drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a good > replacement? How far out to space them? There were grommets on trailing > edge of the bottom edge. > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:45 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drain grommets you don't need them if you have 2 layers of fabric where you need the holes (the base fabric, and the tapes).- I put them on the top wing of the Bab y Lakes, but opted out on the bottoms, just melted holes with the soldering iron. =0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, June 21, 2014 7:02 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AYa know, with all these questions you have, i t's too bad there's not some kind of a printed collection of instructions, tips, tricks, or hints....a "manual" of sorts, available for purchase from the manufacturer.... =0ASent from my mobile device =0AOn Jun 21, 2014 5:23 PM, "Steven Dortch" wrote:=0A=0A=0A>I did not o rder drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a good replacement? How f ar out to space them? There were grommets on trailing edge of the bottom ed ge. =0A>-- =0A>=0A>Blue Skies,=0A>Steve D=0A> =0A>" target="_blank">http ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com ========= ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:52 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: biased ply tape around edges Bias is only needed if you are going around a curve like a wingtip bow or t he trailing edge of the rudder, and its more expensive than straight tape. - If at all possible try put the bias tapes on without the sewed seam sho wing, it makes for a clean looking cover job.- Put the sewed seam out of plain sight (the bottom of a rudder etc) when possible.- The sewed seam i s roughly every 5 or 6 ft of the bias tapes, cant remember exactly.- It i s there because the tapes are cut out of a bolt of fabric on a 45 deg. angl e, and the bolts are only 5 or 6 ft wide.- I was able to tape up most of the curves on my bipe with out needing to have a piece longer than 5-6 ft, so I cut the seam off the roll and started a new section.- You can also u se an iron to walk the bias-tape around the curve, without needing to not ch the tape.- Covering is pretty fun, it was the 2 million coats of spray ing dope I got tired of.=0A-=0AEnough of my gibberish,=0A-=0AShad- =0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, June 21, 2014 6:23 PM, Steven Dortch wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AI ordered linear pinked tape. Should I get some bias pinked tape for the edges? =0A=0A-- =0A=0ABlue Skies,=0ASteve D ================= ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:54 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: drain grommets Steve, you have so many questions on covering. I suggest you buy the Ceconite manual, or the Stewart System manual, or the PolyFiber manual (I think they're all written by the same fellow, Jon Goldbaum), and READ it. Every question you've asked is answered in complete detail in these manuals. Covering is the most fun part of building an airplane, but you need to learn the process yourself. The best way to learn is to take a class such as the EAA teaches, or at Oshkosh or Sun 'n' Fun. Short of that the best thing is to buy the manual and read it cover to cover. If there is someone knowledgeable nearby who can teach you step by step, that would be great. Asking for step by step help on the internet is a poor substitute for one of these other methods. Good luck with your repairs! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Dortch Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 6:15 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: drain grommets I did not order drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a good replacement? How far out to space them? There were grommets on trailing edge of the bottom edge. -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:32 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: drain grommets From: "jarheadpilot82" Here is the info I think that Ryan may have been alluding to, although he may have been referring to some other manual. His true meaning was lost on me in his attempt at humor. http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/99861 -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425235#425235 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/chapter_02_dragged_201.pdf ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drain grommets From: Steven Dortch OK guys! I ordered the Ceconite manual when I ordered the covering materiel. My question was do I need to order grommets as well? Blue Skies, Steve D On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 7:55 PM, Jack Phillips wrote: > Steve, you have so many questions on covering. I suggest you buy the > Ceconite manual, or the Stewart System manual, or the PolyFiber manual (I > think they=99re all written by the same fellow, Jon Goldbaum), and READ it. > Every question you=99ve asked is answered in complete detail in the se manuals. > > > Covering is the most fun part of building an airplane, but you need to > learn the process yourself. The best way to learn is to take a class suc h > as the EAA teaches, or at Oshkosh or Sun =98n=99 Fun. Short of that the best > thing is to buy the manual and read it cover to cover. If there is someo ne > knowledgeable nearby who can teach you step by step, that would be great. > Asking for step by step help on the internet is a poor substitute for one > of these other methods. > > > Good luck with your repairs! > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Dortch > *Sent:* Saturday, June 21, 2014 6:15 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: drain grommets > > > I did not order drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a good > replacement? How far out to space them? There were grommets on trailing > edge of the bottom edge. > -- > > Blue Skies, > > Steve D > > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List * > > *http://forums.matronics.com * > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution * > > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: drain grommets From: Ryan Mueller That is a good piece of approved data to have as well, but in this case I was referring to the Ceconite manual that Steve questioned needing before, available for purchase at Aircraft Spruce, Wicks, Univair, et al for $10 On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 8:59 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote: > jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> > > Here is the info I think that Ryan may have been alluding to, although he > may have been referring to some other manual. His true meaning was lost on > me in his attempt at humor. > > > http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/99861 > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > USMC, USMCR, ATP > BVD DVD PDQ BBQ > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425235#425235 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/chapter_02_dragged_201.pdf > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drain grommets From: Ken Bickers Steve, you don't need the grommets. You can just burn a small hole at each place where you want to be able to drain water, using an electric woodburning pen. You'll find that it is easier, faster, and (to my eyes) tidier than gluing on a grommet. Even if you glue the grommet on, you'll still have to burn a hole with an electric woodburning pen, or something similar. Best of luck, Ken On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Steven Dortch wrote: > OK guys! I ordered the Ceconite manual when I ordered the covering > materiel. My question was do I need to order grommets as well? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > > On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 7:55 PM, Jack Phillips > wrote: > >> Steve, you have so many questions on covering. I suggest you buy the >> Ceconite manual, or the Stewart System manual, or the PolyFiber manual ( I >> think they=99re all written by the same fellow, Jon Goldbaum), and READ it. >> Every question you=99ve asked is answered in complete detail in th ese manuals. >> >> >> >> Covering is the most fun part of building an airplane, but you need to >> learn the process yourself. The best way to learn is to take a class su ch >> as the EAA teaches, or at Oshkosh or Sun =98n=99 Fun. Short of that the >> best thing is to buy the manual and read it cover to cover. If there is >> someone knowledgeable nearby who can teach you step by step, that would be >> great. Asking for step by step help on the internet is a poor substitut e >> for one of these other methods. >> >> >> >> Good luck with your repairs! >> >> >> >> Jack Phillips >> >> NX899JP >> >> Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: >> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Dortch >> *Sent:* Saturday, June 21, 2014 6:15 PM >> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: drain grommets >> >> >> >> >> I did not order drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a good >> replacement? How far out to space them? There were grommets on trailing >> edge of the bottom edge. >> -- >> >> Blue Skies, >> >> Steve D >> >> >> >> >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List * >> >> *http://forums.matronics.com * >> >> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution * >> >> >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> * >> >> > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:22 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: drain grommets Well......(Deep Breath and chest puffed out, and shoulders back),=C2- I b elieve what Berrnie did was cut the brass end off of old 16 Gauge shotgun s hells=C2-and drilled holes thru the center where the firing pin left a ce nter punch mark, then he glued them on as drain grommets.=C2- He used the rest of the plastic...I mean paper (in those days), to fire up the wood st ove to get the iron hot enough to cover the rest of the airplane.=C2- And the Iron, it was made out of an old piece of rail from the Canadian Pacifi c Railroad with 3 railroad spikes welded together in a "U" shape for the ha ndle.=C2- He had a 5 gallon mercury thermometer he used to calibrate that old railroad iron............=0A=C2-=0ADo Not Archive=0AShad=0AP.S. No d isrespect is meant in the preceding email, and is not endorsed by any aircr aft maintenance organization=C2-or manufacturer.=C2- Any use of the pre ceding information is done at the risk of the persons using the information . =0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, June 21, 2014 10:21 PM, Steven Dortch wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AOK guys! I ordered the Ceconite manual w hen I ordered the covering materiel. My question was do I need to order gro mmets as well?=0A=0ABlue Skies,=0ASteve D=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sat, Jun 21, 20 14 at 7:55 PM, Jack Phillips wrote:=0A=0A =0A>S teve, you have so many questions on=0Acovering.=C2- I suggest you buy the Ceconite manual, or the Stewart System=0Amanual, or the PolyFiber manual ( I think they=99re all written by the same=0Afellow, Jon Goldbaum), an d READ it.=C2- Every question you=99ve asked is=0Aanswered in compl ete detail in these manuals. =0A>=C2- =0A>Covering is the most fun part o f building=0Aan airplane, but you need to learn the process yourself.=C2- The best way to=0Alearn is to take a class such as the EAA teaches, or at Oshkosh or Sun =98n=99 Fun.=C2- Short=0Aof that the best thin g is to buy the manual and read it cover to cover.=C2-=0AIf there is some one knowledgeable nearby who can teach you step by step, that=0Awould be gr eat.=C2- Asking for step by step help on the internet is a poor=0Asubstit ute for one of these other methods. =0A>=C2- =0A>Good luck with your repa irs! =0A>=C2- =0A>Jack Phillips =0A>NX899JP =0A>Smith Mountain Lake (W91) , Virginia =0A>=C2- =0A>=0A>________________________________=0A> =0A>Fro m:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-se rver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Dortch=0A>Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 6:15=0APM=0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A>Subject: Pietenpol-Li st: drain=0Agrommets =0A>=C2- =0A>=0A>I did not order drain grommets from Aircraft spruce, I there a good=0Areplacement? How far out to space them? There were grommets on trailing edge of=0Athe bottom edge. =0A>-- =0A>Blue Skies, =0A>Steve D =0A>=C2-=0A>=C2- =0A>http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?Pietenpol-List =0A>http://forums.matronics.com/ =0A>http://www.mat ronics.com/contribution =0A>=C2-=0A>" target="_blank">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Atp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blank">http ://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A=0A=0A-- =0A=0ABlue Skies,=0ASteve D ================= ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing attachments From: Steven Dortch Pietenpeople, I was looking over the Center section on my Piet with John K. and he pointed out that the holes on the center section left rear attachement are significantly larger than the other three brakets. I checked the wing. It also is an order larger. Does anyone know if there is a reason for this? On my 1959 Cessna 150, the rear wing attach bolt went into a cam )basically a hollow bolt that you could adjust so that you could adjust for washout. Is this similar? or perhaps it was simply drilled too big so they went with it. Blue Skies, Steve D -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:49 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing attachments They probably used a bigger drill bit there. =0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, June 21, 2014 11:59 PM, Steven Dortch wrote:=0A =0A=0A =0APietenpeople, =0AI was looking over the Center section on my Piet with J ohn=0AK. and he pointed out that the holes on the center section left rear =0Aattachement are significantly larger than the other three brakets. I che cked=0Athe wing. It also is an order larger. Does anyone know if there is a reason for=0Athis? =0A-=0AOn my 1959 Cessna 150, the rear wing attach bo lt went into a=0Acam )basically a hollow bolt that you could adjust so that you could adjust for=0Awashout. Is this similar? or perhaps it was simply drilled too big so they went=0Awith it. =0A-=0ABlue Skies,=0ASteve D=0A ==== ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:53 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing attachments Just make sure you still have some meat left on the fitting, Edge distance from the hole to the- edge of the fitting.- Post a photo if you can, it 's worth a 1000 words.- I have had to upsize holes due to- elongation, it's safe as long as the strength of the fitting is not compromised.=0A- =0AShad =0A=0A=0AOn Sunday, June 22, 2014 12:51 AM, shad bell wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AThey probably used a bigger drill bit there. =0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, June 21, 2014 11:59 PM, Steven Dortch wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0APietenpeople, =0AI was looking over the C enter section on my Piet with John=0AK. and he pointed out that the holes o n the center section left rear=0Aattachement are significantly larger than the other three brakets. I checked=0Athe wing. It also is an order larger. Does anyone know if there is a reason for=0Athis? =0A-=0AOn my 1959 Cessn a 150, the rear wing attach bolt went into a=0Acam )basically a hollow bolt that you could adjust so that you could adjust for=0Awashout. Is this simi lar? or perhaps it was simply drilled too big so they went=0Awith it. =0A ============= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.