Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 07/01/14


Total Messages Posted: 19



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:58 AM - Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ (Bill Church)
     2. 06:09 AM - Re: Tail wheel (Jack Phillips)
     3. 06:25 AM - Re: Tail wheel (echobravo4)
     4. 06:25 AM - Re: Re: Engines (John Fay)
     5. 06:32 AM - Tail wheel (Douwe)
     6. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: Tail wheel (Michael Perez)
     7. 07:57 AM - Re: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ (Ray Krause)
     8. 10:20 AM - Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ (Bill Church)
     9. 12:00 PM - Re: Tail wheel (AircamperN11MS)
    10. 04:32 PM - Re: Re: Tail wheel (Gary Boothe)
    11. 06:24 PM - Re: Brodhead light this year (Baldeagle)
    12. 06:28 PM - Re: Tail wheel (AG)
    13. 06:28 PM - Re: barnstorming fly in (Baldeagle)
    14. 06:49 PM - Re: Tail wheel (AircamperN11MS)
    15. 07:19 PM - Re: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ (Ray Krause)
    16. 08:56 PM - Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ (Bill Church)
    17. 10:37 PM - Re: Brodhead light this year (Baldeagle)
    18. 11:03 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
    19. 11:08 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:58:49 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    One point to keep in mind is the material of the struts. The Aeronca design, as illustrated by Mike, is used on steel struts. Welds in steel, when done properly, are as strong as the base metal. Aluminum, however, is a different story. Some alloys of aluminum are greatly affected by welding. When Alloy 6061-T6 (which is the alloy that Carlson Struts are made of) is welded, the base material loses its temper in the weld zone - effectively reducing the strength to approximately 25% of the original strength. This strength can be restored, through heat treating, but this is an expensive process. Best to avoid welding 6061-T6 in any area where strength is a concern. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425826#425826


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:09:47 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
    Subject: Tail wheel
    Andy, I noticed nobody has answered your question as to where to get the compression spring. I know many have used a spring from John Deere, but they are very proud of their parts and charge accordingly. I used a compression spring from McMaster-Carr: http://www.mcmaster.com/#compression-springs/=snaoy4 . The one I used was part number 96485K141. it is 6" long overall, with an outside diameter of 1.93", a wire diameter of .25" and a spring constant of 116 lbs per inch. It costs $11.17 and works very well. Just to confuse you further, I originally had a 6" Scott tailwheel on a leaf spring from a Piper PA-12. After a forced landing which caused a groundloop, the leaf spring was torn from the lower longerons, resulting in substantial damage to the longerons - which is something to think about. Most leafsprings are designed to attach to welded steel tube fuselages. You can do it with wood, but the attach structure needs to be well thought out (mine obviously wasn't). During the rebuild, I changed to the A-Frame design. The first one I built strictly to the plans. I found that it was too wimpy torsionally, and steering loads on the tailwheel (which that design was never intended to withstand, since it was designed for a skid with no steering loads) caused the whole A-Frame to twist. Here is a picture of the first A-Frame I built: Note that I had the tailwheel aft of the compression spring, which I'm sure exacerbated the twisting problems. I flew this assembly for about 4 hours and then one day while taxiing for takeoff the tailwheel simply broke off as I turned around for my runup. Glad that didn't happen on landing! I rebuilt the tailwheel assembly using an A-Frame of heavier tubing, and with a crossbar at the front, making it a rigid triangle. I also moved the tailwheel underneath the compression spring. This assembly has worked well for over 300 hours and many bad landings. It also uses the 4" "Homebuilder's Special" tailwheel from ACS that is not entirely satisfactory. It tends to go into free swivel very easily when turning left, and is difficult to break into free swivel when turning right. I probably need to take it apart and make some adjustments Good luck, and welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols and Pietenpeople! Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AG Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 10:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel Hello everybody - I am new to this board - although I have been reading it for quite some time. I have been wanting to build a Pietenpol for about 5-6 years now and finally - I have been able to start a few months ago. Currently I have the tail section built and I am in the process of joining the fuselage together. - I will try to post some pics soon. Anyway enough introduction - this is my first aircraft project and so I will probably be asking for help often! ...and now for my first question! I am thinking through what I want to do for a tail wheel - for those who modified the "plans" tail skid with coil spring - where did you get your spring? What type of wheel did you use? I am thinking about the MATCO T-6 tail wheel with the plans built "A-frame/coil spring set-up" Has anyone used some non-Aircraft caster/wheel to build a "home-made" tail wheel? What is the advantage of using the "leaf" style spring/set-up? Any info/opinions would be welcome help to a newbie! Thanks, Andy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425811#425811


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:25:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Tail wheel
    From: "echobravo4" <eab4@comcast.net>
    Hi Andy, welcome aboard! The tailwheel spring you can get from John Deere- The part number is T143444 Think it was about 50 bucks- I don't have the sizes in front of me, but it is slightly larger in diameter than what is called for in the plans, so the Tubing for the cups that the springs go into needs to be slightly larger as well -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425829#425829


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:25:11 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Engines
    From: John Fay <jfay1950@gmail.com>
    Yes, the Ford Cortina engine is already on the list. John Fay in Peoria On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> wrote: > The article also mentions a Ford Cortina engine. Extensive research > (Google) shows that the Cortina had a 1.7 or 2.0 liter engine. Would that > be new to the engine list? > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 7:50 PM, Brian Kenney <brian.kenney@live.ca> > wrote: > >> I believe it is a 4Y engine which is a pushrod engine not with an >> overhead cam >> >> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engines >> > From: taildrags@hotmail.com >> > Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 14:40:22 -0700 >> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >> > >> taildrags@hotmail.com> >> > >> > OK... sorry... I found out that the Kiwi Piet uses the Toyota 22R >> engine but that still doesn't help figure out how much power it's making. >> They are variously rated at 97-108 HP at 4800-5000 RPM. >> > >> > -------- >> > Oscar Zuniga >> > Medford, OR >> > Air Camper NX41CC &quot;Scout&quot; >> >> > A75 power >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Read this topic online here: >> > >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425740#425740 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> &gt========== >> > >> > >> > >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> >> ttp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> >> >> * >> >> > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > * > > > * > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:32:04 AM PST US
    Subject: Tail wheel
    From: Douwe <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
    Welcome aboard Andy! Search the archives and you'll assuredly find discussion about where guys found their springs. I've heard a John Deere spring and others, just don't recall specifics I have the plans unit and made up my own tail wheel using a small wheel from McMaster Carr. My humble observations thru the years is that the plans design is very good, just needs a cross piece added ahead I'd the wheel since it wasn't designed for steering loads originally. I feel it is actually stronger in a side load condition and light. Douwe Sent from my iPhone


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:34:54 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Tail wheel
    Hello Andy. Later this month will mark my 6th year of building. I am curren tly doing a full assembly of the plane needed to measure/layout and fabrica te the last few items and to get an initial W&B.- It has all gone by quit e fast.=0A=0A=0AThe spring I used is from a John Deere tractor. I bought tw o of them new and if interested, I can get the part number from the spare I have at home.- I am using the small homebuilders tail wheen from ACS, it is a 4" wheel...I agree that 6" would be a too big and heavy. You can see from the pictures that I made my own steerable tail wheel assembly and adap ted the homebuilders wheel. I also modified the "A" frame mounts at the fus elage to wrap around the frame and use through bolts. The ends of the "A" f rame were modified with the tube-through-tube idea used on the control torq ue tube assembly.-=0A=0AIf you have been following the list some, you may have seen the posts concerning rudder control horn attachment. That thread progressed into tail wheel cables and the like which you may find interest ing.=0A=0AI can't compare the "A" arm set-up to the leaf spring as I don't have any experience with it.=0A=0A=0AHaving not been flight tested, none of this may be worth much, but it may get you to consider other ideas.=0A- =0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot...switch seats. =0AMike Perez =0AKaretaker Ae ro =0ASTILL Building...=0A


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:57:28 AM PST US
    From: Ray Krause <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
    Bill, Thanks, great information. Bicycle frames are often made from 6061-T6 (many Raleigh bikes that I sold in a past life). The welding was once done in the USA but is now all done in China. The welds are beautiful and the frames are heat treated after welding, as I remember. There are several ways of doing this, but I don't remember! Is one purging the frames with non-oxygen gas during welding? Seems like something the home builder should be able to do at home! Gary Booth put me in contact with a friend of his who had a supply of strut aero aluminum in his hanger. I got enough for my SkyScout at a good price. Guess I will use straps for the jury strut attach points since my purge tanks are low and the struts won't fit in my wife's oven! Thanks, Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Jul 1, 2014, at 4:58 AM, "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > > One point to keep in mind is the material of the struts. > The Aeronca design, as illustrated by Mike, is used on steel struts. Welds in steel, when done properly, are as strong as the base metal. > Aluminum, however, is a different story. Some alloys of aluminum are greatly affected by welding. When Alloy 6061-T6 (which is the alloy that Carlson Struts are made of) is welded, the base material loses its temper in the weld zone - effectively reducing the strength to approximately 25% of the original strength. This strength can be restored, through heat treating, but this is an expensive process. Best to avoid welding 6061-T6 in any area where strength is a concern. > > Bill C. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425826#425826 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:20:33 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    Ray, No, unfortunately it isn't as simple as purging. Effectively, when 6061-T6 gets welded, the metal in the weld zone loses all of its tempering, and goes back to the annealed state (T-zero). In order to return to T6 temper, the weldment will need to be solution heat treated, and then artificially aged. Solution heat treatment involves carefully heating the weldment in an oven to a pretty high temperature, around 980F (too hot and the aluminum just melts), and held for about an hour, then quickly cooled, by quenching. Once returned to room temperature, the aluminum is again heated, and held at a set temperature for a specified time. For aging, the temperatures are in the range of typical kitchen ovens ( 325 - 400F). When you stick a toothpick in, and it comes out dry, you're done. (just kidding about the toothpick test). So, I doubt that any homebuilder is going to be up to the task of re-tempering aluminum lift struts after welding. For those using aluminum struts, fabricating a few strap fittings would be a much less daunting task Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425859#425859


    Message 9


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    Time: 12:00:40 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Tail wheel
    From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
    Gary, You are very welcome. :) The bus I threw you under looked like a small one from where I was standing, But, perhaps it was further down the street and bigger than I thought when I glanced at it. Hope you just got bruised a little and didn't get any broken bones. Just the devil inside me I guess, Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425866#425866


    Message 10


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    Time: 04:32:32 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Tail wheel
    It was no problem, Scott! Re-telling the story helps to remind me of the travelled road...a road I am very fortunate to be on!! Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AircamperN11MS Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 12:00 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel --> <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> Gary, You are very welcome. :) The bus I threw you under looked like a small one from where I was standing, But, perhaps it was further down the street and bigger than I thought when I glanced at it. Hope you just got bruised a little and didn't get any broken bones. Just the devil inside me I guess, Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425866#425866


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:24:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brodhead light this year
    From: "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27@earthlink.net>
    Another event if you're going early, Hagarstown, Indiana We usually get about 30 mostly vintage aircraft, including some Pietenpols, on the 4,000 foot grass runway: http://www.airnav.com/airport/I61 - -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425888#425888


    Message 12


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    Time: 06:28:15 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Tail wheel
    From: "AG" <aglangerco@yahoo.com>
    Wow - this board is great - Thanks for all the info! and - here's another question. I have heard some opinions that connecting the tail wheel directly to the rudder will put too much stress on the rudder. I got some drawings from Bill Rewey for a set-up which runs a separate set of cables from the tail wheel up to just behind the pilot's seat and then connects them there with split-bolt connectors to the main rudder cables. Obviously you guys are flying with the direct connection - any problems with that? Thanks Andy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425889#425889


    Message 13


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    Time: 06:28:21 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: barnstorming fly in
    From: "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27@earthlink.net>
    The Barnstorming Carnival is July 19 and 20 at Springfield, OH - -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425890#425890


    Message 14


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    Time: 06:49:49 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Tail wheel
    From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
    Andy, Pay no attention to the way mine is hooked up. I have a steel tube fuse and tail feathers. Totally different than most all other piets. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425892#425892


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:19:07 PM PST US
    From: Ray Krause <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
    Thanks, Bill. I wonder how a bicycle mfg could afford to do all that? There is no that much profit in a $300.00 bike! Maybe if you are set up for it and can handle large volumes, that would do it. I'm sorry to hear you lost your wife. That almost happened to me last year, so I understand. Thanks for taking the time to explain all that. Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Jul 1, 2014, at 10:19 AM, "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca> wrote: > > > Ray, > No, unfortunately it isn't as simple as purging. > Effectively, when 6061-T6 gets welded, the metal in the weld zone loses all of its tempering, and goes back to the annealed state (T-zero). > In order to return to T6 temper, the weldment will need to be solution heat treated, and then artificially aged. Solution heat treatment involves carefully heating the weldment in an oven to a pretty high temperature, around 980F (too hot and the aluminum just melts), and held for about an hour, then quickly cooled, by quenching. Once returned to room temperature, the aluminum is again heated, and held at a set temperature for a specified time. For aging, the temperatures are in the range of typical kitchen ovens ( 325 - 400F). When you stick a toothpick in, and it comes out dry, you're done. (just kidding about the toothpick test). > So, I doubt that any homebuilder is going to be up to the task of re-tempering aluminum lift struts after welding. For those using aluminum struts, fabricating a few strap fittings would be a much less daunting task > > Bill C. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425859#425859 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 08:56:18 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    Yikes, Ray. I didn't lose my wife. Haven't even misplaced her. I think maybe you've got me mixed up with Chuck Campbell. I believe he recently mentioned his wife's passing. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425897#425897


    Message 17


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    Time: 10:37:04 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brodhead light this year
    From: "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27@earthlink.net>
    http://henryshoosiers.com/hagerstown-antique-plane-flying-circus-model-t-museum-driving-tour/ - -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425899#425899


    Message 18


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    Time: 11:03:02 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed. You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request. The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Pietenpol-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 19


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    Time: 11:08:37 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive




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