Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:53 AM - Re: ###4th FLIGHT### (jarheadpilot82)
2. 07:19 AM - Re: Happy 4th everyone (AircamperN11MS)
3. 08:16 AM - Re: ###4th FLIGHT### (William Wynne)
4. 10:02 AM - Re: ###4th FLIGHT### (Bill Church)
5. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Happy 4th everyone (Jack Phillips)
6. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Happy 4th everyone (Gary Boothe)
7. 10:50 AM - Re: ###4th FLIGHT### (William Wynne)
8. 07:26 PM - 4th of July (Robert Bush)
9. 07:26 PM - (Robert Bush)
10. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Happy 4th everyone (Boatright, Jeffrey)
11. 07:50 PM - Re: Re: Happy 4th everyone (Michael Groah)
12. 08:45 PM - Re: Re: Happy 4th everyone (Ken Anderson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
William,
OK, I will be the jarhead that asks the simple question that probably has a simple
answer.
What should the angle of the horizontal stabilizer be? Zero, in relation to the
top longeron? Or is the answer, "it depends."? Start at zero and adjust during
flight testing? I don't see it shown on the plans, or am I missing something?
There have been previous discussions on the forum about elevator position in flight.
The elevator should be in a neutral position for cruise flight, is that
what you are saying? I understand that elevator position out of neutral will create
more drag, but I thought there was some discussion of it being " normal".
In the Marine Corps we used to say that there is no such thing as a stupid question,
although there are many that come extremely close. Maybe mine is one of
the close ones.[/b]
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426060#426060
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| Subject: | Re: Happy 4th everyone |
Good morning Pieters,
I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45. Great
smooth ride.
Happy Landings,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073
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| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
Terry,
I went back last night after doing Chris's W&B calculation and read most of what
I could find on it to get a bigger picture. "Depends" is a very good answer.
Chris, I would strongly consider getting in touch with Don Harper at Barnwell and
looking at which wing incidence he used on his plane with the same airfoil
you have. Even 1 degree difference is a lot on a plane, and if we know what works
for him, and if it is different from what you have, it is starting off a lot
better armed in the info department.
The plans show 2 degrees, but this is really applicable to only one set of parameters,
a weight and a cruise speed and the original airfoil. 2 degrees may be
right on the button for a 1100 pound A powered plane at 68 mph with the BHP airfoil.
A 1200 pound plane at 78mph with a ribblett may not only need a different
incidence to be idealized, but it will likely also require a different stabilizer
setting. If the BHP and Ribblet airfoils had tables like the naca airfoils
do in theory of wing sections, anyone could do an accurate calculation in
a few minutes. Without this, working from carefully validated previous flying
planes takes longer, but can produce a fine tunes plane just the same. -ww.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426074#426074
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| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
There was a discussion about wing incidence about three years ago, and at that
time I created a couple of drawings to illustrate the relationship between the
cabane strut lengths, and also between the chord line vs the bottom of the spars.
They are attached again to this posting.
For the "to the plans" Pietenpol, the 1" difference in cabane struts creates a
2 degree angle. Added to this is a 1 1/2 degree angle formed between the chord
line and the bottoms of the spars (since that's where the cabanes attach).
So the effective angle of incidence between the airfoil chord and the top longeron
is 3.5 degrees.
For the Riblett 612 airfoil, there is a 2.1 degree angle between the chord line
and the bottoms of the spars. So, if a Riblett 612 airfoil is mounted on "stock"
cabanes (front 1" longer than rear), the effective AofI would be 4.1 degrees.
If the front and rear cabanes are made equal lengths, with the Riblett, the effective
angle would be reduced to only 2.1 degrees - almost 1 1/2 degrees less
than the "to the plans" Piet.
In order to produce the same 3.5 degree angle, but using the Riblett 612, there
should be a difference of approximately 11/16" difference in cabane lengths (front
vs back).
Food for thought.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426085#426085
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_incidence_145.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/riblett_incidence_159.pdf
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| Subject: | Re: Happy 4th everyone |
I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with
gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such
winds!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AircamperN11MS
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:20 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
<Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
Good morning Pieters,
I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45.
Great smooth ride.
Happy Landings,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073
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| Subject: | Re: Happy 4th everyone |
Know what you mean Jack...gusts to 3 here!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 4, 2014, at 10:08 AM, "Jack Phillips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with
> gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such
> winds!
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> AircamperN11MS
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:20 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
>
> <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
>
> Good morning Pieters,
> I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45.
> Great smooth ride.
> Happy Landings,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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| Subject: | Re: ###4th FLIGHT### |
nBill,
Those are some very clear and useful drawings, a good reference point, and I would
be very interested to read about what the incidence of any flying Ribblett
airfoiled plane is.
4.1 degrees on that airfoil is a lot. People miss how many kits use Ribblett airfoils,
even things like Zenith 601XLs. I am pretty sure the same airfoil used
on the Piet is also on modern Kitfoxes, and they don't have anywhere near that
kind of incidence, even when you factor in the speed and wing loading difference.
With 6% camber, this airfoil will still produce lift even if the incidence is lowered
to 0 degrees. If the plane is trying to fly with the fuselage angled down
3 or 4 degrees in flight, the often forgotten part on trimming is that it is
also adding this to the down thrust of the engine and subtracting it from the
incidence of the stabilizer.
Was anyone else at Brodhead about 10 years ago when a plane flew in that had the
cabanes reversed? I recall a plane flying around the pattern with the nose about
4 degrees up. I have seen some rigging errors before, but that one stands
out in my memory, and I have no explanation why the builder might have thought
it was OK. -ww.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426089#426089
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Happy 4th of July! My wife and I enjoyed a beautiful sunset flight, 75 degre
es, clear skies. No humidity it was absolutely perfect.
By the way, for all of you that congratulated me on the article in Experimen
ter magazine, thank-you. I'm not sure if my previous thank you went thru or n
ot.
Randy bush
NX294RB
Sent from my iPhone
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
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Sent from my iPhone
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| Subject: | Re: Happy 4th everyone |
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Happy 4th everyone |
I got to go up for a bit this morning too! It was hotter at 1000 agl than o
n the ground this morning, but still not too bad as the high today was suppo
sed to be 103 here in sunny central California.
And I get to fly the wife to breakfast in the Piet tomorrow. Ain't it grea
t?
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 4, 2014, at 7:31 PM, "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright@emory.edu>
wrote:
>
> Glorious morning flight today on the 4th! Very cool temps for this time o
f year in Atlanta. I was actually chilly at 2300 MSL. Went down to 1700 MSL f
or warmth and, oddly, fewer bumps.
> --
>
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO
> Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
>
> From: Jack Phillips <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
> Date: Friday, July 4, 2014 at 1:08 PM
> To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
>
s.com>
>
> I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with
> gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such
> winds!
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> AircamperN11MS
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:20 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone
>
> <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
>
> Good morning Pieters,
> I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45.
> Great smooth ride.
> Happy Landings,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Happy 4th everyone |
=C3 the
On Jul 4, 2014 9:22 AM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote:
> Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
>
> Good morning Pieters,
> I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45
.
> Great smooth ride.
> Happy Landings,
>
> --------
> Scott Liefeld
> Flying N11MS since March 1972
> Steel Tube
> C-85-12
> Wire Wheels
> Brodhead in 1996
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073
>
>
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