Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Fri 07/04/14


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:53 AM - Re: ###4th FLIGHT### (jarheadpilot82)
     2. 07:19 AM - Re: Happy 4th everyone (AircamperN11MS)
     3. 08:16 AM - Re: ###4th FLIGHT### (William Wynne)
     4. 10:02 AM - Re: ###4th FLIGHT### (Bill Church)
     5. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: Happy 4th everyone (Jack Phillips)
     6. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Happy 4th everyone (Gary Boothe)
     7. 10:50 AM - Re: ###4th FLIGHT### (William Wynne)
     8. 07:26 PM - 4th of July (Robert Bush)
     9. 07:26 PM -  (Robert Bush)
    10. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Happy 4th everyone (Boatright, Jeffrey)
    11. 07:50 PM - Re: Re: Happy 4th everyone (Michael Groah)
    12. 08:45 PM - Re: Re: Happy 4th everyone (Ken Anderson)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:53:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
    From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
    William, OK, I will be the jarhead that asks the simple question that probably has a simple answer. What should the angle of the horizontal stabilizer be? Zero, in relation to the top longeron? Or is the answer, "it depends."? Start at zero and adjust during flight testing? I don't see it shown on the plans, or am I missing something? There have been previous discussions on the forum about elevator position in flight. The elevator should be in a neutral position for cruise flight, is that what you are saying? I understand that elevator position out of neutral will create more drag, but I thought there was some discussion of it being " normal". In the Marine Corps we used to say that there is no such thing as a stupid question, although there are many that come extremely close. Maybe mine is one of the close ones.[/b] -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426060#426060


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:19:54 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Happy 4th everyone
    From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
    Good morning Pieters, I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45. Great smooth ride. Happy Landings, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:16:01 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
    From: "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA@aol.com>
    Terry, I went back last night after doing Chris's W&B calculation and read most of what I could find on it to get a bigger picture. "Depends" is a very good answer. Chris, I would strongly consider getting in touch with Don Harper at Barnwell and looking at which wing incidence he used on his plane with the same airfoil you have. Even 1 degree difference is a lot on a plane, and if we know what works for him, and if it is different from what you have, it is starting off a lot better armed in the info department. The plans show 2 degrees, but this is really applicable to only one set of parameters, a weight and a cruise speed and the original airfoil. 2 degrees may be right on the button for a 1100 pound A powered plane at 68 mph with the BHP airfoil. A 1200 pound plane at 78mph with a ribblett may not only need a different incidence to be idealized, but it will likely also require a different stabilizer setting. If the BHP and Ribblet airfoils had tables like the naca airfoils do in theory of wing sections, anyone could do an accurate calculation in a few minutes. Without this, working from carefully validated previous flying planes takes longer, but can produce a fine tunes plane just the same. -ww. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426074#426074


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:02:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
    From: "Bill Church" <billspiet@sympatico.ca>
    There was a discussion about wing incidence about three years ago, and at that time I created a couple of drawings to illustrate the relationship between the cabane strut lengths, and also between the chord line vs the bottom of the spars. They are attached again to this posting. For the "to the plans" Pietenpol, the 1" difference in cabane struts creates a 2 degree angle. Added to this is a 1 1/2 degree angle formed between the chord line and the bottoms of the spars (since that's where the cabanes attach). So the effective angle of incidence between the airfoil chord and the top longeron is 3.5 degrees. For the Riblett 612 airfoil, there is a 2.1 degree angle between the chord line and the bottoms of the spars. So, if a Riblett 612 airfoil is mounted on "stock" cabanes (front 1" longer than rear), the effective AofI would be 4.1 degrees. If the front and rear cabanes are made equal lengths, with the Riblett, the effective angle would be reduced to only 2.1 degrees - almost 1 1/2 degrees less than the "to the plans" Piet. In order to produce the same 3.5 degree angle, but using the Riblett 612, there should be a difference of approximately 11/16" difference in cabane lengths (front vs back). Food for thought. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426085#426085 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet_incidence_145.pdf http://forums.matronics.com//files/riblett_incidence_159.pdf


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:09:42 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
    Subject: Re: Happy 4th everyone
    I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such winds! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AircamperN11MS Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> Good morning Pieters, I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45. Great smooth ride. Happy Landings, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:48:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Happy 4th everyone
    From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Know what you mean Jack...gusts to 3 here! Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 4, 2014, at 10:08 AM, "Jack Phillips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com> wrote: > > > I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with > gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such > winds! > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > AircamperN11MS > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:20 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone > > <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > > Good morning Pieters, > I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45. > Great smooth ride. > Happy Landings, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:50:27 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
    From: "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA@aol.com>
    nBill, Those are some very clear and useful drawings, a good reference point, and I would be very interested to read about what the incidence of any flying Ribblett airfoiled plane is. 4.1 degrees on that airfoil is a lot. People miss how many kits use Ribblett airfoils, even things like Zenith 601XLs. I am pretty sure the same airfoil used on the Piet is also on modern Kitfoxes, and they don't have anywhere near that kind of incidence, even when you factor in the speed and wing loading difference. With 6% camber, this airfoil will still produce lift even if the incidence is lowered to 0 degrees. If the plane is trying to fly with the fuselage angled down 3 or 4 degrees in flight, the often forgotten part on trimming is that it is also adding this to the down thrust of the engine and subtracting it from the incidence of the stabilizer. Was anyone else at Brodhead about 10 years ago when a plane flew in that had the cabanes reversed? I recall a plane flying around the pattern with the nose about 4 degrees up. I have seen some rigging errors before, but that one stands out in my memory, and I have no explanation why the builder might have thought it was OK. -ww. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426089#426089


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:26:05 PM PST US
    Subject: 4th of July
    From: Robert Bush <rbush96589@aol.com>
    Happy 4th of July! My wife and I enjoyed a beautiful sunset flight, 75 degre es, clear skies. No humidity it was absolutely perfect. By the way, for all of you that congratulated me on the article in Experimen ter magazine, thank-you. I'm not sure if my previous thank you went thru or n ot. Randy bush NX294RB Sent from my iPhone <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> </b></font></pre></body></html>


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:26:07 PM PST US
    From: Robert Bush <rbush96589@aol.com>
    Sent from my iPhone <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> </b></font></pre></body></html>


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:31:57 PM PST US
    From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright@emory.edu>
    Subject: Re: Happy 4th everyone
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    Message 11


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    Time: 07:50:54 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Happy 4th everyone
    From: Michael Groah <dskogrover@yahoo.com>
    I got to go up for a bit this morning too! It was hotter at 1000 agl than o n the ground this morning, but still not too bad as the high today was suppo sed to be 103 here in sunny central California. And I get to fly the wife to breakfast in the Piet tomorrow. Ain't it grea t? Mike Groah Tulare CA Sent from my iPad > On Jul 4, 2014, at 7:31 PM, "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright@emory.edu> wrote: > > Glorious morning flight today on the 4th! Very cool temps for this time o f year in Atlanta. I was actually chilly at 2300 MSL. Went down to 1700 MSL f or warmth and, oddly, fewer bumps. > -- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > > From: Jack Phillips <jack@bedfordlandings.com> > Date: Friday, July 4, 2014 at 1:08 PM > To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone > s.com> > > I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with > gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such > winds! > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > AircamperN11MS > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:20 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone > > <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > > Good morning Pieters, > I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45. > Great smooth ride. > Happy Landings, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073 > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > > > > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > ky=C2=B7=C3=A8=C5=BE=C3=9B"=C3=8D=C3=AD=C5=93=C2=A2Z+=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9A q=C3=A7(=C2=BA=C2=B8=C5=BE=C2=AEw=C2=B0r=B9=C2=AB=B0=C3=C3=93 =C3=A3=C3=A2z=C3=97=C2=A7=C2=B0K=C5-=C3=8BD=84=A2=C2=A8 =C2=A5=16=C5-=C3=AE=84=A2K=1E=C2=B6=17=C5=92j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',.+-=15 =C3=C2=AD=C2=BA=C2=B7=C2=AC5=C2=AB=C3=A2=C2=81=C2=ABh=C2=AE=C3=9A=1B=C2=AE =C5=92,z=C3=98^=84=A2=C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5-=C3=98=C5=BE=C2 =B2=C3=8B=C5=93=C2=AB=0B=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2=AEn=C3=87+=C5- =BAb=C2=A2p+r=18=C2=AFy'=C5=A1=C2=AD=C3=88C=C2=A3 =C3=A5=C2=A1=C2=A7{ =C2=AC=C2=81=C2=AE=C5=92,x(Z=C2=B4P=10>=1A-=C2=A2=C3=88Z=C2=AD=C3=C2=A7v k=C5=93-k=C5=93-j+y=C2=A8ky=C3=B8m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83=0C &j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=C2=81=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8 =C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=98m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83=0C &j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=C2=81=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8 =C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9F=C3=9A0=04=C3=918=C3=92=02I a=01=14=C3=A4T1$=C5=A1=84=A2=C3=A8+y=C2=AB\=C2=A2{^=C5=BE=C3'=C2=A5=C2=B2 -=C2=AFj)ZnW=C2=AF=B0=C2=ABayg=BA=16=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1=C3 =86=C2=A1=C2=AD=C3=A7=C3=A1=C2=B6=C3=9A=7F=C3=BD=C3=BA+=C2=BAk&j=C3=9A=C3=A8 =C5=BE',r=B0=C2=A1=C2=B6=C3=9A=7F=C3=BD=C3=BA+=C2=BAk&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5 =BE',r=B0=C2h=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4*'=C2=B6=C2=B8=BA=C2=BA=C3=98=C2 =A8=C2=9Dg=BAJ+^N=16=C2=A7=9C*.~=C5-=C3=B2=C2=A2=C3=C3-zw =C2=AB=C2=A2=C3=AB,=C2=BA=C5=A1h=C2=AE=C3=93=1A=C2=B6=C3=90=C3=ABjY^.+-=01=C3 =99=C2=A2=C2=9D=C2=A8ky=C3=B8m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83=0C&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE ',r=B0=C2r=B0=C3=AD=C2=AE&=C3=AE=C2=B6*'-=C3=9Bi=C3 =C3=BC0=C3=82f=C2=AD=C2=AE=B0=C3=A2r=C3=87(=BA=C3=B7(=C5=BE=C3=9A =C3=A2n=C3=ABb=C2=A2=7F=C3=9A=C3=BD=C2=C3=9F=C2=A2{=7F=C2=C2=B7=C2n =A1r=C3=BE=1Bf


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:45:46 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Happy 4th everyone
    From: Ken Anderson <kanderson051@gmail.com>
    =C3 the On Jul 4, 2014 9:22 AM, "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> wrote: > Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > > Good morning Pieters, > I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45 . > Great smooth ride. > Happy Landings, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > >




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