---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/05/14: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:25 AM - Re: Happy 4th everyone (Greg Cardinal) 2. 06:17 AM - First Engine Start - No Joy (Michael Perez) 3. 06:33 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (Gene Rambo) 4. 06:34 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (Jack Phillips) 5. 06:44 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (Michael Perez) 6. 06:53 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (Gene Rambo) 7. 07:19 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (Jeff Martin) 8. 07:20 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (Michael Perez) 9. 07:25 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (Michael Perez) 10. 07:42 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (Jack Phillips) 11. 07:47 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (Gene Rambo) 12. 07:49 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (tools) 13. 08:02 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (Michael Perez) 14. 08:16 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (jim hyde) 15. 08:20 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (jim hyde) 16. 08:21 AM - A65 carb attachment (Steven Dortch) 17. 08:29 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (William Wynne) 18. 09:28 AM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (dgaldrich) 19. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: Happy 4th everyone (Jack Phillips) 20. 12:49 PM - July 4th flights (Douwe Blumberg) 21. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Happy 4th everyone (Robert Bush) 22. 01:29 PM - Re: Happy 4th everyone (AircamperN11MS) 23. 01:33 PM - Re: A65 carb attachment (taildrags) 24. 02:59 PM - Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (Michael Perez) 25. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (Michael Perez) 26. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: First Engine Start - No Joy (Michael Perez) 27. 03:27 PM - July 5th...New Milestone (Michael Perez) 28. 03:31 PM - Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Jim Boyer) 29. 03:52 PM - Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Jack Phillips) 30. 07:22 PM - Re: Re: Happy 4th everyone (Ray Krause) 31. 11:31 PM - Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Scott Knowlton) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:27 AM PST US From: "Greg Cardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Happy 4th everyone I flew for 1.6 yesterday evening doing my flight review (BFR). I felt very independant. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "AircamperN11MS" Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 2:05 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Happy 4th everyone > > > Here's a challenge to all. Lets see how many of us with flying Piets can > commit aviation on the 4th. Even if it is only to go around the pattern > once. Then we'll report back here so we can get a head count. Could be > fun. > > Have fun, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426027#426027 > > > --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:55 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy -My Fourth was spent doing fuel flow tests and getting ready for the firs t engine run. As mentioned in the subject line, no luck getting the engine to start. At the end of a long day, we spent about two hours and multiple h and propping attempts with no luck...absolutely no sighs of life.-Pulling the #3 lower spark plug verified no fuel was making it into the cylinders. The spark plug was dry and had no smell of fuel. I verified that fuel was in/at the carburetor fuel bowl by loosening the fuel filter nut and allowin g the fuel to-drip out-of my NA-S3B. I do not have any primer system in stalled and I do not have any type starter fluid on hand, so there was no " pre-charge" of the cylinders/carb./intake attempted.=0A=0ABefore I remove t he carb., (or anything else) and start to tear down components, I am open f or suggestions.--I understand that troubleshooting vie email is tough, but I appreciate any help provided.=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot...switch s eats. =0AMike Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0ASTILL Building... =0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy From: Gene Rambo Cover the intake with your hand (I.e. choke it) and rock the prop on an inta ke stroke for each cylinder until you hear it slurping... Or get starter fluid.... Gene On Jul 5, 2014, at 9:14 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > My Fourth was spent doing fuel flow tests and getting ready for the first engine run. As mentioned in the subject line, no luck getting the engine to start. At the end of a long day, we spent about two hours and multiple hand propping attempts with no luck...absolutely no sighs of life. Pulling the # 3 lower spark plug verified no fuel was making it into the cylinders. The sp ark plug was dry and had no smell of fuel. I verified that fuel was in/at th e carburetor fuel bowl by loosening the fuel filter nut and allowing the fue l to drip out of my NA-S3B. I do not have any primer system installed and I d o not have any type starter fluid on hand, so there was no "pre-charge" of t he cylinders/carb./intake attempted. > > Before I remove the carb., (or anything else) and start to tear down compo nents, I am open for suggestions. I understand that troubleshooting vie ema il is tough, but I appreciate any help provided. > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > STILL Building... > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:10 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy Michael, when pulling the prop through can you hear air sucking through the carburetor? Does the sound change when the throttle is opened or closed? Are you running an air cleaner? If so, try propping it with the carb heat "ON" to bypass the air cleaner. Has the carburetor been overhauled and the needle valve checked? Is the needle valve set to maintain fuel at the prescribed level in the float chamber? Lots of questions. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 9:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy My Fourth was spent doing fuel flow tests and getting ready for the first engine run. As mentioned in the subject line, no luck getting the engine to start. At the end of a long day, we spent about two hours and multiple hand propping attempts with no luck...absolutely no sighs of life. Pulling the #3 lower spark plug verified no fuel was making it into the cylinders. The spark plug was dry and had no smell of fuel. I verified that fuel was in/at the carburetor fuel bowl by loosening the fuel filter nut and allowing the fuel to drip out of my NA-S3B. I do not have any primer system installed and I do not have any type starter fluid on hand, so there was no "pre-charge" of the cylinders/carb./intake attempted. Before I remove the carb., (or anything else) and start to tear down components, I am open for suggestions. I understand that troubleshooting vie email is tough, but I appreciate any help provided. If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Mike Perez Karetaker Aero STILL Building... ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:48 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy Hi Gene. Considering I have the heat box in place, should I remove it for t he choke you describe? Would any starting fluid work? (Auto store)- Where is the best place to spray the starter fluid...I have easy access to the p lugged port on the intake spider where a primer nozzle would go.- Could i t really be this simple!?=0A=0AThank you.-=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot.. .switch seats. =0AMike Perez =0AKaretaker Aero =0ASTILL Building... ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy From: Gene Rambo If its a 65 you don't really need a primer. Any starter fluid will work. Re move filter and spray into box. If it fires backwards, that means too lean, y ou need more prime. If its a J3 type air box, do like Jack said and pull car b heat and cover the inlet with your hand to choke Gene On Jul 5, 2014, at 9:44 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > Hi Gene. Considering I have the heat box in place, should I remove it for t he choke you describe? Would any starting fluid work? (Auto store) Where is the best place to spray the starter fluid...I have easy access to the plugg ed port on the intake spider where a primer nozzle would go. Could it reall y be this simple!? > > Thank you. > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > STILL Building... > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:04 AM PST US From: Jeff Martin Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy Check your float level Jeff Martin > On Jul 5, 2014, at 9:14 AM, Michael Perez wrote : > > My Fourth was spent doing fuel flow tests and getting ready for the first engine run. As mentioned in the subject line, no luck getting the engine to start. At the end of a long day, we spent about two hours and multiple hand propping attempts with no luck...absolutely no sighs of life. Pulling the # 3 lower spark plug verified no fuel was making it into the cylinders. The sp ark plug was dry and had no smell of fuel. I verified that fuel was in/at th e carburetor fuel bowl by loosening the fuel filter nut and allowing the fue l to drip out of my NA-S3B. I do not have any primer system installed and I d o not have any type starter fluid on hand, so there was no "pre-charge" of t he cylinders/carb./intake attempted. > > Before I remove the carb., (or anything else) and start to tear down compo nents, I am open for suggestions. I understand that troubleshooting vie ema il is tough, but I appreciate any help provided. > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > STILL Building... > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:11 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy Jack, "Lots of questions."- Boy, you and I both!-- I was in cockpit, so I could not hear anything from my vantage point. The engine is currently set up as it would be for flight...heat box, air cleaner, etc.=0A=0AI did the rebuild on the carburetor myself following the correct overhaul manual and various other NA-3B literature I have. I cross referenced the various p art numbers and confirmed that the jets, nozzles, etc. are correct for my e ngine. I installed new seals/gaskets/shims as per the manuals and set the f loat level.- (All to say that I did what I could, but may have missed som ething or did it incorrectly.)=0A=0AWhen I attempt another start, (as soon as my "manual starter" can come back over) I'll do it with the carb. heat O N initially and advise him to listen for suction.=0A=0A=0AIf God is your co -pilot...switch seats. =0AMike Perez =0AKaretaker Aero=0A Attempting first engine start. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:06 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy I'm sorry, I guess I should start by telling you what engine...it is an A-6 5.-- It is a J3 type box.- Just so I am clear:- do I prime-AND ch oke, or choose/try one or the other?- Do we attempt a start while choking , or are we just covering the inlet and "walking" the prop. to get flow sta rted?=0A=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot...switch seats. =0AMike Perez =0AKare taker Aero =0AAttempting first engine start ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:22 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy I wouldn't try choking it while starting - too dangerous. Do as Gene suggested, walking the prop through the intake stroke of each cylinder with the switches "OFF" and the intake choked. That should pull enough fuel/air mixture into the cylinders to start it. After doing that for 4-6 blades, remove the choke, turn on the mags and prop it hard. Many people don't prop very vigorously. I find it much easier to start an A65 with a really strong swing - you should be able to prop it hard enough to get two blades before it stops. Just be careful to not wrap your fingers around the trailing edge of the prop very far, in case it does kick backwards (it can break your hand or arm). It's not necessary for you to be in the cockpit, as long as the tail is tied down very securely. Have you had any instruction in hand-propping? Be sure to start stepping back as you pull on the prop, so your body already has momentum away from that meat cleaver in case you fall. It is not necessary to kick your leg up before pulling down on the prop - that is just for Hollywood and actually can make you overbalance and fall headfirst into the prop. If you go to Brodhead later this month Rob Busch and Matt Paxton can both give excellent advice on hand-propping airplanes. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 10:25 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy I'm sorry, I guess I should start by telling you what engine...it is an A-65. It is a J3 type box. Just so I am clear: do I prime AND choke, or choose/try one or the other? Do we attempt a start while choking, or are we just covering the inlet and "walking" the prop. to get flow started? If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. Mike Perez Karetaker Aero Attempting first engine start ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy From: Gene Rambo Starter fluid or choke. Choke it until you hear sucking and should see fuel dripping. Then prop without choke. Gene On Jul 5, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > I'm sorry, I guess I should start by telling you what engine...it is an A- 65. It is a J3 type box. Just so I am clear: do I prime AND choke, or ch oose/try one or the other? Do we attempt a start while choking, or are we j ust covering the inlet and "walking" the prop. to get flow started? > > > If God is your co-pilot...switch seats. > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > Attempting first engine start > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:41 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Engine Start - No Joy From: "tools" I'd check for a stuck needle valve. Is the needle valve attached to the float, or not? Some carbs they are, and some they're not. Light tapping on the carb bowl sometimes helps, air pressure into the bowl can help. Or pull the bowl and double check. If the needle is connected to the float, and you're sure you can hear the float clunking around, then it's probably alright. Might have to pull the carb to check that. I know, I know, NONE of this is fun, especially when everything is safety wired. However, you do need to MAKE SURE the basics are covered. An engine needs three things... air, spark and fuel. The air and spark are the easiest to check in this configuration. You know you have gas to the bowl, so make sure it can get past the float valve. Then the needle. With the throttle closed, it should prime itself. However, to get stuff flowing, I do agree some external prime (heck, a squirt bottle and a LITTLE gas would probably do the job) is a good idea. Not to offend, but EVERY PULL of that prop can be a life threatening event. EVERY SINGLE ONE, I've had a few hard starts (ALWAYS after the engine was off and/or drained) and found myself getting complacent pulling that sucker over. Had to concentrate HARD to pull, and wait, before heading back in to grab the prop again. And manual priming and rocking props can start that thing up. So BE CAREFUL and establish a GOOD SOLID routine with your switch guy. Don't let all the looky loos giving advice on how to get it running get in the way or distract you. Be methodical and make only one change at a time. Don't belabor things too much either. Make a change, give reasonable time, then move on to something else, keeping in mind, it's usually a very basic thing that's wrong, which reminds us, it can start at ANY time! Lastly, if your arms are getting really tired, you're using bad propping technique. Working up a sweat, getting frustrated, generally pooped, all normal, but the arms should hold out. Good technique will keep the rest of you in the game longer and help you get this figured out. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426138#426138 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:02 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy -Jack,- we do have the tail tied to a car and have two 25 pound weights lying on the rope at the tail wheel. We also have sand bags at the wheels. I just feel better in the cockpit for the added weight and instant access to the throttle/mags.=0A=0AMy starter and I spent time going over proper ha nd propping technique and he did many practice starts to get the fingers, s tepping back, posture, etc. correct and comfortable.- I do thank you for the tips and concerns.=0A=0AIs there a good way to determine when each cyli nder is at the intake stroke?- Do I need to walk the prop through or just rock it, (pump) it? Walking to me implies that the prop is turned in one d irection effectively progressing through all cylinders and all 4 strokes. =0A=0AI am off for flight training and other commitments now, but I will be back later to answer any other questions.=0A=0AThank you all for the help. I hope to try again tomorrow or Monday.=0A=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero =0AAttempting first engine start ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:01 AM PST US From: jim hyde Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy what is the history of the carb??? =0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, July 5, 2014 10:07 AM, Michael Perez wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A-Jack, - we do have the tail tied to a car and have two 25 pound weights lying o n the rope at the tail wheel. We also have sand bags at the wheels. I just feel better in the cockpit for the added weight and instant access to the t hrottle/mags.=0A=0AMy starter and I spent time going over proper hand propp ing technique and he did many practice starts to get the fingers, stepping back, posture, etc. correct and comfortable.- I do thank you for the tips and concerns.=0A=0AIs there a good way to determine when each cylinder is at the intake stroke?- Do I need to walk the prop through or just rock it , (pump) it? Walking to me implies that the prop is turned in one direction effectively progressing through all cylinders and all 4 strokes.=0A=0AI am off for flight training and other commitments now, but I will be back late r to answer any other questions.=0A=0AThank you all for the help. I hope to try again tomorrow or Monday.=0A=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AAttemptin ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:17 AM PST US From: jim hyde Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy might try asking asking mr g- =0A=0A=0AOn Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:53 AM , Gene Rambo wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AStarter fluid or choke . -Choke it until you hear sucking and should see fuel dripping. Then pro p without choke.-=0A=0AGene=0A=0AOn Jul 5, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Michael Per ez wrote:=0A=0A=0AI'm sorry, I guess I should st art by telling you what engine...it is an A-65.-- It is a J3 type box. - Just so I am clear:- do I prime-AND choke, or choose/try one or the other?- Do we attempt a start while choking, or are we just covering the inlet and "walking" the prop. to get flow started?=0A>=0A>=0A>If God is yo ur co-pilot...switch seats. =0A>Mike Perez =0A>Karetaker Aero =0A>Attemptin 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:59 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 carb attachment From: Steven Dortch Good People, On some small Continental engines the carb has a strap or metal mount in addition to where it is attached to the engine. On some it does not. Is this a function of where the glass bowl fuel strainer is? I don't think I need it, My fuel strainer is on the firewall. What have y'all done? -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Engine Start - No Joy From: "William Wynne" Mike, You probably have done this, but number one, tie the tail down with a rope and knots that you would feel comfortable restraining a pit bull next to an elementary school playground with. Do not trust wheel chocks nor brakes. If it starts unexpectedly, your throttle and mag switch may not be set, and have a CO2 fire extinguisher on hand. 10 years ago a FL Piet project was largely destroyed on the first start for want of 6 feet of rope. Any engine that is giving trouble starting is a distraction, and is creating a situation that could lead to inattention on the brakes. Two hours is a lot of hand propping on a warm day to not have a single hint of life. Even if you don't know the starting drill on a 65 yet, in 120 minutes you will have by random chance a pop over if everything is set right. Go back and check things. Popping over on starter fluid does not correct what is out of adjustment. You don't need the motor to run to time the mags and verify float height. Now comes the stuff only a tactless person would say: If the guy who is teaching you about hand propping a 65 doesn't already know every single thing that has been written by Jack and the other's he is the wrong guy to be helping you. Hand propping and diagnosing engine issues are skills to learn, but if your guy doesn't know what is going on in 2 hours, you need a better in person assistant, or to have the realization that you are on your own. You can not imagine how many people I speak to every year who are new to airplanes and have 'a buddy' who is just providing a false sense of progress and security while the stumble on. Tactless part #2. If in any way shape or form, it turns out that your 'carb rebuild' or any of the adjustments to it are the starting issue, take it as a warning shot from the universe not to play aircraft mechanic on critical items. Sounds harsh, but read this story about a guy I knew who insisted that anyone could rebuild an airplane carb, that hubris and an internal mistake, killed him on the first flight: http://flycorvair.net/2013/04/20/risk-management-judgement-error-money-in-the-wrong-place/ Not to hurt your feelings but your tone on carbs reminds me of Ken. I asked him 3 times to have a pro check it, he died a week later. Any engine, Continental, Corvair or Lycoming, if it is set correctly should start near instantly on a warm day, even if it has never started before. The average crank time on a brand new Corvair at a College is 3 seconds. A perfectly set new 65 should light on maybe 5 blade pulls. Tactless part #3: if the best prep work you can do before a start test doesn't work, take it as an important sign that you need to re-evaluate what you think you know, and who you think you are learning it from. It should not take two hours of pulling on a prop and an email from a tactless jackass in Florida to have a 'moment of awareness' on this. In the past you have offered a lot of information for sale for a guy who can't start an engine today. I have been an A&P for 24 years, but I still touch every plane cognizant that safety is only found after you discard the myth of personal infallibility. If you would like to learn more, This link has stories of a number of friends of mine, all dead now: http://flycorvair.net/2014/01/21/risk-management-reference-page/ -ww. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426144#426144 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Engine Start - No Joy From: "dgaldrich" One last cautionary tale. We have a Piper Cub with an A-75. During it's last annual, the mechanic had the mag switch OFF preparing for an engine run and pulled the engine through slowly. It was cold and unprimed but started anyway. Scared the crap out of him. He DID have it safely tied to a concrete post and chocked so there was no further drama. Turned out there was crud in the 60+ year old switch and it provided a path for the p-lead. The lesson to be taken from this was mentioned earlier. ALWAYS treat the engine as "live" if it's completely assembled. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426145#426145 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:59 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone Never got up yesterday - just didn't feel like fighting such winds, but today was spectacular. I took my wife, Karen, up and she got a number of good pictures of Smith Mountain Lake, where we live. I never get tired of the views flying over the lake. Here is my favorite of the pictures she shot: Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:32 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone Glorious morning flight today on the 4th! Very cool temps for this time of year in Atlanta. I was actually chilly at 2300 MSL. Went down to 1700 MSL for warmth and, oddly, fewer bumps. -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine From: Jack Phillips Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such winds! Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AircamperN11MS Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:20 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone Good morning Pieters, I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45. Great smooth ride. Happy Landings, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073 _____ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ~=03 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:59 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: July 4th flights Stupid iphone, it discourages me from writing long enough, so here's the full story. Marci and I shared a gorgeous 20 minute morning flight, buzzed our house and some friends houses, landed and started our day. That evening, our entire July 4th party wanted to fly so to the airport we go. Set a Douwe record, 7 flights back to back. Aint much for some of you veterans, but a lot for po ole RE-PIET and Douwe. Was SO much fun. Not super strong winds, but CRAZY directionally, constantly shifting, could almost never tell which way to take off or land! Once when coming in with a big dude, the wind shifted 180 from my nose to my tail on final!! Gave some people and kids their first real flying experience and every single one enjoyed it immensely. My mother in law was crying when we landed. She said it was because of the beauty, but maybe it was my landing, who knows! I can feel RE-PIET chompin' at the bit to stretch her legs a bit in a few weeks!!! Happy 4th. Douwe ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:15:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone From: Robert Bush Beautiful Jack. I tried to post the pictures my wife took of our flight yest erday but we didn't do something right and it didn't go through. Hope everyo ne had a great 4th. Randy Bush Sent from my iPhone On Jul 5, 2014, at 12:16 PM, "Jack Phillips" wrot e: > Never got up yesterday =93 just didn=99t feel like fighting su ch winds, but today was spectacular. I took my wife, Karen, up and she got a number of good pictures of Smith Mountain Lake, where we live. I never get tired of the views flying over the lake. Here is my favorite of the pictur es she shot: > > > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:32 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone > > Glorious morning flight today on the 4th! Very cool temps for this time o f year in Atlanta. I was actually chilly at 2300 MSL. Went down to 1700 MSL f or warmth and, oddly, fewer bumps. > -- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > > From: Jack Phillips > Date: Friday, July 4, 2014 at 1:08 PM > To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone > s.com> > > I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with > gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such > winds! > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > AircamperN11MS > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:20 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone > > > > Good morning Pieters, > I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45. > Great smooth ride. > Happy Landings, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073 > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > ~=03 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:34 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone From: "AircamperN11MS" I flew 1.2 again this morning. Took an old friend of mine. It was his first ride in the Piet. He was smiling ear to ear when we got back. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426163#426163 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:43 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A65 carb attachment From: "taildrags" Steve; are you talking about the blue bracket ahead of the carb in the picture attached? I asked the same question and got varied answers. 41CC has always had that bracket but the original one broke in the nose-over. When I found out how much the Continental part cost, I made my own. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426164#426164 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a75final001_594.jpg ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:33 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Engine Start - No Joy Gene, thank you. I understand now. Mike Perez Karetaker Aero Attempting first engine start ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:50 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Engine Start - No Joy Understood Dave. We are treating everything at this point as unknowns and, like you said, consider every time the prop. is touched that it will start. Mike Perez Karetaker Aero Attempting first engine start ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:10 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Engine Start - No Joy Thank you all for the advice.- It appears that I may get another shot at this thing tomorrow. I will try the various suggestions to see if I can at least get the plugs wet. At that point, I hope to get a sputter or cough to verify that some form of ignition is present. Either way, I will try to up date the list as to how things went.=0A=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AAtt empting first engine start ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:03 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: July 5th...New Milestone -It has been a long time coming, but today I finally soloed! It was great weather for it and after three circuits around the pattern, I did another three solo.- I was very surprised that I was not nervous, concerned or wo rried in any way. Everything felt really good and I was very calm...no diff erent then when driving a car. It all went very well and I could not be mor e pleased.- =0A=0AAs I mentioned in another thread, tomorrow it is back t o trying for my first engine start.=0A=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AAtte mpting first engine start ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:36 PM PST US From: Jim Boyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: July 5th...New Milestone Congratulations on the first solo Michael. Jim B. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:47 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: July 5th...New Milestone Congratulations, Michael! You've taken the first step into a larger world. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 6:27 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: July 5th...New Milestone It has been a long time coming, but today I finally soloed! It was great weather for it and after three circuits around the pattern, I did another three solo. I was very surprised that I was not nervous, concerned or worried in any way. Everything felt really good and I was very calm...no different then when driving a car. It all went very well and I could not be more pleased. As I mentioned in another thread, tomorrow it is back to trying for my first engine start. Mike Perez Karetaker Aero Attempting first engine start ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:20 PM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone Jack, Beautiful photo. I was just in Virginia last week, absolutely beautiful! Do I remember that you are that you are planning on an airport bed and breakfast ? I visited Kill Devil Hills for the first time, very impressive. They let m e take many photos of the 1903 Flyer...close ups. Are your jury struts just round tubing, what size? Thanks, Ray Krause Building SkyScout Sent from my iPad > On Jul 5, 2014, at 10:16 AM, "Jack Phillips" wr ote: > > Never got up yesterday =93 just didn=99t feel like fighting su ch winds, but today was spectacular. I took my wife, Karen, up and she got a number of good pictures of Smith Mountain Lake, where we live. I never get tired of the views flying over the lake. Here is my favorite of the pictur es she shot: > > > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Boatright, Jeffrey > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:32 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone > > Glorious morning flight today on the 4th! Very cool temps for this time o f year in Atlanta. I was actually chilly at 2300 MSL. Went down to 1700 MSL f or warmth and, oddly, fewer bumps. > -- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > > From: Jack Phillips > Date: Friday, July 4, 2014 at 1:08 PM > To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone > s.com> > > I'm waiting till this evening. Right now we have winds at 15 knots with > gusts to 25, directly across the runway. Too much work flying in such > winds! > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > AircamperN11MS > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 10:20 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Happy 4th everyone > > > > Good morning Pieters, > I flew for 30 minutes this morning before it gets hot. Lifted off at 5:45. > Great smooth ride. > Happy Landings, > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426073#426073 > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > ~=03 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:31:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: July 5th...New Milestone From: Scott Knowlton Congrats Michael!!!! Another fledgling leaves the nest. No small feat and o ne very few humans on this planet accomplish. Scott K Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 6, 2014, at 12:29 AM, "Michael Perez" wr ote: > > It has been a long time coming, but today I finally soloed! It was great w eather for it and after three circuits around the pattern, I did another thr ee solo. I was very surprised that I was not nervous, concerned or worried i n any way. Everything felt really good and I was very calm...no different th en when driving a car. It all went very well and I could not be more pleased . > > As I mentioned in another thread, tomorrow it is back to trying for my fir st engine start. > > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > Attempting first engine start > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.