Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:44 AM - WW's post (Douwe Blumberg)
2. 04:48 AM - mild steel-4130 (Douwe Blumberg)
3. 06:14 AM - Re: mild steel-4130 (AG)
4. 07:11 AM - Re: mild steel-4130 (tkreiner)
5. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: mild steel-4130 (earthlink1)
6. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: mild steel-4130 (Jack Textor)
7. 08:40 AM - WW post on mags, carbs, and maintenance (Timothy Willis)
8. 10:20 AM - Re: mild steel-4130 (nightmare)
9. 10:41 AM - Engine Starts/Runs (Michael Perez)
10. 12:07 PM - Re: Engine Starts/Runs (woodflier)
11. 03:43 PM - Seatbelt eyebolts. (Steven Dortch)
12. 04:51 PM - VW Radial (Steven Dortch)
13. 05:09 PM - Re: VW Radial (Gene Rambo)
14. 11:09 PM - Re: VW Radial (aerocarjake)
Message 1
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Thanks William for taking the time to give such a thorough and practical
explanation/warning.
This is the type of stuff that sneaks up on us and can bite us bad and I
think it's great to get a dose of reality sometimes.
See you soon!
Douwe
Message 2
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We MIG a lot of aluminum, and I tig'd my Piet together, but haven't migged
4130. I've not heard of it being tricky, and almost every race car you see
is migged 4130 tubing, so it can't be that hard.
I don't honestly think the control system experiences any strong loads, just
repetitive type movements and it worked fine before 4130. Just be sure that
the "mild steel" you choose is at least the equivalent of what Bernard used.
However. I would still use 4130 because I'm sure it migs fine, might be a
few tricks, but shouldn't be too hard.
$.02
Douwe
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: mild steel-4130 |
Thanks for your thoughts -
I would prefer to use to use 4130 - even if it is overkill - because safer is better
- If I can mig 4130 safely that's the way I'll go.
I guess my only reservation is the ability to test my welds.
Do you know of any way to test my mig welds on 4130 other than the "bash" test
(bash it with a sledge until it breaks)?
In my reading the concerns with mig on 4130 are that the high localized heat can
create "break points" just beyond the HAZ (heat affected zone) of the weld.
If oxy/acetylene is much safer with 4130 - I could just start learning (I can get
access to a torch). - but like I said I've done quite a bit with mig so my
confidence/proficiency is much higher with mig.
Thanks,
Andy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426238#426238
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: mild steel-4130 |
Andy,
Perhaps one of the greatest things about building a Piet is that you will develop
lots of new skills...
So, consider that gas welding class, and give it a try. Gas welding is easy, and
once you weld a few test pieces together, you'll ask yourself why you ever
questioned trying it.
Keep in mind aircraft welds are never ground down or smoothed, so the skill you
develop will display your craft to all...
Just my $0.02
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426240#426240
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: mild steel-4130 |
Andy,
I'm no expert on welding, but I think there was a discussion of this in the archives
(or maybe I read it somewhere else- Bingellis?), and the bottom line was
you can MIG 4130 and then heat the entire area cherry red with a gas torch and
allow it to air cool and your weld should be good to go. You should verify
this, but that's what my middle-aged brain remembers.
Kip Gardner
On Jul 7, 2014, at 9:13 AM, AG wrote:
>
> Thanks for your thoughts -
>
> I would prefer to use to use 4130 - even if it is overkill - because safer is
better - If I can mig 4130 safely that's the way I'll go.
> I guess my only reservation is the ability to test my welds.
>
> Do you know of any way to test my mig welds on 4130 other than the "bash" test
(bash it with a sledge until it breaks)?
>
> In my reading the concerns with mig on 4130 are that the high localized heat
can create "break points" just beyond the HAZ (heat affected zone) of the weld.
>
> If oxy/acetylene is much safer with 4130 - I could just start learning (I can
get access to a torch). - but like I said I've done quite a bit with mig so my
confidence/proficiency is much higher with mig.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426238#426238
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: mild steel-4130 |
Andy, http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com has been an excellent resource for me...
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 7, 2014, at 8:13 AM, "AG" <aglangerco@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for your thoughts -
>
> I would prefer to use to use 4130 - even if it is overkill - because safer is
better - If I can mig 4130 safely that's the way I'll go.
> I guess my only reservation is the ability to test my welds.
>
> Do you know of any way to test my mig welds on 4130 other than the "bash" test
(bash it with a sledge until it breaks)?
>
> In my reading the concerns with mig on 4130 are that the high localized heat
can create "break points" just beyond the HAZ (heat affected zone) of the weld.
>
> If oxy/acetylene is much safer with 4130 - I could just start learning (I can
get access to a torch). - but like I said I've done quite a bit with mig so my
confidence/proficiency is much higher with mig.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426238#426238
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | WW post on mags, carbs, and maintenance |
Wow! I think this post is as enlightening on these subjects as anyone
could post. All of the post is a great read. However if you want to put
the thrust of the article in perspective, read this part first:
(quote) "I am an Embry-Riddle trained A&P with 24 years of continuous work
on light aircraft. I am qualified to work on virtualy any part in GA
planes, but that doesn't
mean I am reluctant to hire other mechanics with greater experience and
better
tooling. When the right mag had excessive drop on the C-85 in my wife's
Taylorcraft,
I could have replaced the cracked coil myself, but instead I took both
mags to a repair station and waited while they were overhauled. In the last
10 years we have finished several homebuilts, and I could have overhauled
each
of the carbs myself, but I elected to send them all to a certified repair
station.
The difference between 'fixed' and 'Yellow tagged' is often hundreds of
dollars. It sounds like a lot of money until you have lived through to plane
crashes and attended a few funerals. 90% of the people reading this make
more
money than I do, and 95% have less experience with aircraft engines. If
those
people are trying to save money by fixing a mag or a carb themselves, when I
would send the same part out, they should rethink that plan." (end quote)
Thanks you, William
Tim
Time: 01:50:16 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A perspective on Carbs, Mags and Certified engines
From: "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA@aol.com>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: mild steel-4130 |
Hey Andy. I believe all Citabrias were mig welded. I'm not an expert but am gas
welding my 4130 fuselage. 4130 is just as easy to weld as mild steel no matter
the way you weld it. The more difficult part of mig welding the 4130 fuselage
is the relative ease of blowing holes in it because of the thin walls. Typically
.035. Better welders than myself can mig weld a solid fuselage, but I
think history has shown that gas welding or tig is the "best" method.
Their are also many debates on going over your mig/tig welds after with a torch
to prevent cracks in the future. Mig would be great for tack welding the fuselage
then gas weld or tig the rest. Gas welding is easier than you think. Great
free online Eaa videos on it or you tube. Eaa also has a great welding book
too. Paul
--------
Paul Donahue
Started 8-3-12
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426247#426247
Message 9
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| Subject: | Engine Starts/Runs |
-Yesterday, July 6th, marked the first start and run of my A-65.- We sp
rayed some starting fluid into the heat box, (3 quick squirts) with the car
b heat "on". It took about 8 pulls on the prop. there after, but it fired r
ight off and ran really smooth. It was a-short run, about two minutes. An
oil leak was noted and I shut down the engine with the mag switch. Turns o
ut, one valve cover was leaking and an area around the tach. tube/boot/fitt
ing.- This leak is between the black rubber boot and the brass nut it fit
s into. (pic attached) Oil pressure came up to about 28 PSI, but I noted af
ter shutdown that there were air bubbles in the clear tubing.- The oil te
mp. needle never moved, lowest number being 120 F.- I was focusing on oil
pressure, listening and watching for obvious signs of bad news, that I nev
er looked at the tach. reading.- I also never moved the carb. heat to "of
f".- No restart was attempted, so it will be interesting to see how it
starts again cold.=0A=0AObviously I have a lot more work ahead, but it sur
e is nice to finally get to hear it run.=0A=0AI plan to post a short You Tu
be vid. if I can get the raw footage edited.- I'll be sure to have some l
oud, obnoxious music playing the entire time...=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilo
t, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFirst engine start complete
!
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Starts/Runs |
Mike, that's a mighty nice sound when it finally lights off and runs. On yo
ur oil temp, it usually takes some time before I get an indication and mine
usually only indicates 140 to 150 during the summer. In the winter, it str
uggles to get to 120.
Matt Paxton
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Mon, Jul 7, 2014 1:41 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine Starts/Runs
Yesterday, July 6th, marked the first start and run of my A-65. We spraye
d some starting fluid into the heat box, (3 quick squirts) with the carb he
at "on". It took about 8 pulls on the prop. there after, but it fired right
off and ran really smooth. It was a short run, about two minutes. An oil l
eak was noted and I shut down the engine with the mag switch. Turns out, on
e valve cover was leaking and an area around the tach. tube/boot/fitting.
This leak is between the black rubber boot and the brass nut it fits into.
(pic attached) Oil pressure came up to about 28 PSI, but I noted after shut
down that there were air bubbles in the clear tubing. The oil temp. needle
never moved, lowest number being 120 F. I was focusing on oil pressure, l
istening and watching for obvious signs of bad news, that I never looked at
the tach. reading. I also never moved the carb. heat to "off". No restar
t was attempted, so it will be interesting to see how it starts again cold.
Obviously I have a lot more work ahead, but it sure is nice to finally get
to hear it run.
I plan to post a short You Tube vid. if I can get the raw footage edited.
I'll be sure to have some loud, obnoxious music playing the entire time...
If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
Mike Perez
Karetaker Aero
First engine start complete!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Seatbelt eyebolts. |
Pietenpolers, What is recommended for my lapbelt attachment bolts? I think
a 1/4 eyebolt with big washers for both sides. Also a sacrificial piece of
thin plywood on each side of the wood to take the compression.
After looking at the aged and mismatched pile of seatbelts I have gathered
over time. (Some came with the plane and some are good for a bonanza) I
bought two sets from
http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/ofsebe.html
They were about $130 delivered. Look good and the price was right (Also US
made) I bought red to match my interior.
The set came with a huge 7/16 eyebolts, designed to go through 2 inch steel
tubing. The original seatbelt hole in the diagonal wood frame piece plane
is 1/4 inch. I obviously don't want to drill the hole any bigger. The weak
spot in the whole system is the wood attachment.
I may also run a strong wire/strap further back to another structural
member. In a hard crash the wood is the weak point, in that event a loop
of wire going further back and looped around a structural member will
provide more stopping power. Unless I am overthinking it.
Oscar, This passenger seatbelt has a snap end and will snap around the
cross brace wires between the pilot and pax. is there a specific reason
you made the wood discs you made or could I attach them directly to the
wires?
I can easily attach the rear shoulder straps to the old mount.
Blue Skies,
Steve "a big believer in shoulder belts" D.
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 12
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I wonder what HP at what RPM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyRJeZ6s8uM
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 13
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Low/high
Gene
On Jul 7, 2014, at 7:51 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wonder what HP at what RPM.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyRJeZ6s8uM
>
>
> --
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D
>
>
>
Message 14
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Very nice....!!!!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426273#426273
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