Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:46 AM - Re: Re: BFR (Jack)
2. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (Michael Perez)
3. 06:29 AM - a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
4. 06:45 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (woodflier)
5. 06:45 AM - Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts (Mario Giacummo)
6. 06:52 AM - Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts (Jack Phillips)
7. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (Hans van der Voort)
8. 08:46 AM - fluid dynamics of drag (Steven Dortch)
9. 10:03 AM - Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts (Gene Rambo)
10. 10:18 AM - Re: fluid dynamics of drag (AircamperN11MS)
11. 11:39 AM - Length of wire length for Horizontal / Vertical stab stays (tkreiner)
12. 01:45 PM - Re: Length of wire length for Horizontal / Vertical stab stays (Barry Davis)
13. 02:15 PM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBhIGNvbW1vbiBwbGFjZSB0byB1bmRlcnNlbGwg?= =?utf-8?B?eW91cnNlbGYtLS1kaWFnb25hbCBzdHJ1dHM=? (=?utf-8?B?c3RldmVuLmQuZG9ydGNoQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==?=)
14. 03:22 PM - Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts (danhelsper@aol.com)
15. 05:51 PM - engine starts/runs (Lawrence Williams)
16. 05:51 PM - engine starts/runs (Lawrence Williams)
17. 08:30 PM - Landing gear about finished (aviken)
18. 09:26 PM - Re: Landing gear about finished (taildrags)
19. 09:38 PM - Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts (taildrags)
20. 09:53 PM - Re: BFR (taildrags)
Message 1
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Oscar those were the days! I had a Cessna 140, we charged ourselves $5 per hour
wet. My instructor, Wayne Lounsberry flew for a local company and was an FAA
check pilot. I kept the corporate AC clean for dual. I considered him the finest
pilot around, tragically he was killed in the company's Citation.
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Jul 8, 2014, at 11:56 PM, "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Steve: I had to chuckle. My first supervised solo was in a Cub that was probably
very similar to the one you just took your flight review in. The location
was Tims Airpark, near Pflugerville, north of Austin, when I was in college
at UT. Probably 1971. The 40HP cub rented for $12/hour, wet. My instructor,
Jack Cooper, didn't charge me for his instruction time because he was trying
to build instructing hours so if I paid for the plane, he would give me dual.
I soloed it at about 6 hours, so I paid less in rental for those 6 hours of dual
than you did for one hour of Cub rental alone ;o) Old guys (and our memories)
rule! ;o)
>
> do not archive
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426345#426345
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't |
O.K. I'll be adding some larger cork, (X2) and making sure to TEST IT prior
to using in my fuel tank.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats
=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFirst engine start complete!
Message 3
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| Subject: | a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts |
Over the years we've seen just about every size and type of forward diagona
l struts used on Pietenpol center sections
in lieu of the X-cable bracing that is shown on the plans to keep the four
cabane (and thus wing) erect, upright, and to keep
it from shifting forward in the event of a crash but what is somewhat distu
rbing is seeing very small diameter tubing used here
in such a critical area.
If those diagonal struts are too small or not strong enough the wing will c
ome forward in an accident involving a high rate of
deceleration. Don't whimp out on what size tubing or strut material you're
using up there----it could save your life or ruin your day
and a passenger's day.
Mike C.
Ohio
[cid:image001.jpg@01CF9B58.3CDD09E0] [cid:image002.jpg@01CF9B58.3CD
D09E0]
One I would not let someone I loved ride in.
One I would gladly let someo
ne I loved ride in.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't |
I used three wine corks from our local vineyard, with 4 coats of old-fashi
oned shellac. Has been working fine for 3 years, although I don't leave the
cap with the float rod in the tank when it's parked or hangared. I don't w
ant to give the gas the opportunity to dissolve the shellac through long-te
rm dunking, and the solid cap I use when it's parked keeps water out. The r
od is just steel welding rod threaded to take some simple nuts. A nut and w
asher above the corks, then the corks on the rod, then a washer and two nut
s, one as a jam nut on the bottom.
Matt Paxton
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Wed, Jul 9, 2014 8:42 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
O.K. I'll be adding some larger cork, (X2) and making sure to TEST IT prior
to using in my fuel tank.
If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
Mike Perez
Karetaker Aero
First engine start complete!
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts |
If you see carefully the first photo, it have the X braced cables too.
And the second one is strong enough as the bolt it have in the upper side,
It look thin.
Mario Giacummo
2014-07-09 10:29 GMT-03:00 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners,
LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>:
> Over the years we=99ve seen just about every size and type of forw
ard
> diagonal struts used on Pietenpol center sections
>
> in lieu of the X-cable bracing that is shown on the plans to keep the fou
r
> cabane (and thus wing) erect, upright, and to keep
>
> it from shifting forward in the event of a crash but what is somewhat
> disturbing is seeing very small diameter tubing used here
>
> in such a critical area.
>
>
> If those diagonal struts are too small or not strong enough the wing will
> come forward in an accident involving a high rate of
>
> deceleration. Don=99t whimp out on what size tubing or strut mater
ial
> you=99re using up there----it could save your life or ruin your day
>
> and a passenger=99s day.
>
>
> Mike C.
>
> Ohio
>
>
> One I would not let someone I loved ride
> in. One I would gladly
> let someone I loved ride
> in.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts |
Mike,
In the interest of improving the "crash-worthiness" of my Pietenpol, I've
decided this winter to replace the cabane diagonals on mine, per William
Wynne's suggestions after his experience. While my diagonal struts are
plenty beefy, and the attach points to the front cabane struts are good and
solid (see photos below),
the weak point in the system is the turnbuckle fork that I used to allow for
easy adjustment of the wing. In the event of a crash, any forward movement
of the wing will likely buckle the turnbuckle fork shaft. I will remake the
struts with the streamline tubing going all the way to the attach point, now
that I have the wing where I want it.
Wing movement in a crash is not much of a concern with a nose mounted tank
(of course, having a tank full of fuel in your front passenger's lap might
be something to worry about). But with a centersection tank like I have, it
won't take much motion to rupture a fuel line and cause a fire.
Another point to consider is that using streamline tubing produces much less
drag than round tubing (there is almost no worse shape moving through the
air than a round tube), but the round tube is much cheaper. Trying to
reduce drag on a Pietenpol is pretty much a losing proposition.
Anyway, this is a good discussion to have for those who are in the building
process and making decisions on how to brace their wing structure.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal
struts
Over the years we've seen just about every size and type of forward diagonal
struts used on Pietenpol center sections
in lieu of the X-cable bracing that is shown on the plans to keep the four
cabane (and thus wing) erect, upright, and to keep
it from shifting forward in the event of a crash but what is somewhat
disturbing is seeing very small diameter tubing used here
in such a critical area.
If those diagonal struts are too small or not strong enough the wing will
come forward in an accident involving a high rate of
deceleration. Don't whimp out on what size tubing or strut material you're
using up there----it could save your life or ruin your day
and a passenger's day.
Mike C.
Ohio
One I would not let someone I loved ride in.
One I would gladly let someone I loved ride in.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't |
Ever thought about using a classic car tank float=0A'65 mustang and other m
akes are very similar=0A- =0A=0A=0AOn Wednesday, July 9, 2014 7:49 AM, Mi
chael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AO.K. I'll be add
ing some larger cork, (X2) and making sure to TEST IT prior to using in my
fuel tank.=0A=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKar
=========
Message 8
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| Subject: | fluid dynamics of drag |
Check out youtube videos on "Fluid dynamics of drag." old videos done in
1940s or 50s. A blade is much better than a round object.
Sure makes you consider adding some farings. or faring some wires and
struts.
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts |
I'm not sure that a streamlined tube on a 45 is any better than a round tube
....although I'm sure one of you engineers will prove me wrong...
Gene
On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:50 AM, "Jack Phillips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com> wrote
:
> Mike,
>
> In the interest of improving the =9Ccrash-worthiness=9D of my P
ietenpol, I=99ve decided this winter to replace the cabane diagonals o
n mine, per William Wynne=99s suggestions after his experience. While
my diagonal struts are plenty beefy, and the attach points to the front cab
ane struts are good and solid (see photos below),
>
> <image006.jpg>
>
> <image007.jpg>
>
> the weak point in the system is the turnbuckle fork that I used to allow f
or easy adjustment of the wing. In the event of a crash, any forward moveme
nt of the wing will likely buckle the turnbuckle fork shaft. I will remake t
he struts with the streamline tubing going all the way to the attach point, n
ow that I have the wing where I want it.
>
> <image008.jpg>
>
> Wing movement in a crash is not much of a concern with a nose mounted tank
(of course, having a tank full of fuel in your front passenger=99s la
p might be something to worry about). But with a centersection tank like I h
ave, it won=99t take much motion to rupture a fuel line and cause a fi
re.
>
> Another point to consider is that using streamline tubing produces much le
ss drag than round tubing (there is almost no worse shape moving through the
air than a round tube), but the round tube is much cheaper. Trying to redu
ce drag on a Pietenpol is pretty much a losing proposition.
>
> Anyway, this is a good discussion to have for those who are in the buildin
g process and making decisions on how to brace their wing structure.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Par
tners, LLC]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:29 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal s
truts
>
> Over the years we=99ve seen just about every size and type of forwar
d diagonal struts used on Pietenpol center sections
> in lieu of the X-cable bracing that is shown on the plans to keep the four
cabane (and thus wing) erect, upright, and to keep
> it from shifting forward in the event of a crash but what is somewhat dist
urbing is seeing very small diameter tubing used here
> in such a critical area.
>
> If those diagonal struts are too small or not strong enough the wing will c
ome forward in an accident involving a high rate of
> deceleration. Don=99t whimp out on what size tubing or strut materi
al you=99re using up there----it could save your life or ruin your day
> and a passenger=99s day.
>
> Mike C.
> Ohio
>
>
> <image009.jpg> <image010.jpg>
> One I would not let someone I loved ride in.
One I would gladly let someo
ne I loved ride in.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: fluid dynamics of drag |
Found in my Websters dictionary just a few minutes ago.
DRAG: A force acting against thrust. ie; see Pietenpol or Men dressing as women.
I don't worry about drag on my plane. If you need or want efficiency then build
a different airplane.
Just having fun guys, Don't shoot me out of the air on this one.
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426377#426377
Message 11
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| Subject: | Length of wire length for Horizontal / Vertical stab stays |
I'm on a business trip without Piet plans, and I have the opportunity to pick up
some rolled stainless steel flying wires to attach to the horizontal, vertical
stabilizers and the bottom of the fuse.
Can anyone tell me the approximate length of the stays?
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks!
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426385#426385
Message 12
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| Subject: | Length of wire length for Horizontal / Vertical stab |
stays
We ordered 48 of them for the Big Piets with rolled threads. As I remember
each airplane has 8 and there are 2 each of different Lengths. If you are
having rolled threads, it would be safer to order these when all the tail is
assembled to get the correct length for each wire. The stainless hard wire
does look great.
Just my $ .02
Barry
NX973BP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tkreiner
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 2:39 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Length of wire length for Horizontal / Vertical
stab stays
I'm on a business trip without Piet plans, and I have the opportunity to
pick up some rolled stainless steel flying wires to attach to the
horizontal, vertical stabilizers and the bottom of the fuse.
Can anyone tell me the approximate length of the stays?
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks!
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426385#426385
Message 13
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aWRlIGluLgoKCg=
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts |
Jack,
I am thinking about re-doing mine also. I am inviting all comments/criticis
ms on my design, in order that I might make some improvements. Please feel
free to comment as you wish,.... but.... please ....if people could possibl
y refrain from using the words "1960's swing-set technology".........don't
think I can withstand the rejection again.....
Dan Helsper
Puryear, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Phillips <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 9, 2014 8:52 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: a common place to undersell yourself---diagona
l struts
Mike,
In the interest of improving the =9Ccrash-worthiness=9Dof my Pi
etenpol, I=99ve decided this winter to replace the cabane diagonalson
mine, per William Wynne=99s suggestions after his experience. While
my diagonal struts are plenty beefy, and the attach points to the frontcaba
ne struts are good and solid (see photos below),
the weak point in the system is theturnbuckle fork that I used to allow for
easy adjustment of the wing. Inthe event of a crash, any forward movement
of the wing will likely buckle theturnbuckle fork shaft. I will remake th
e struts with the streamlinetubing going all the way to the attach point, n
ow that I have the wing where Iwant it.
Wing movement in a crash is not much of aconcern with a nose mounted tank (
of course, having a tank full of fuel in yourfront passenger=99s lap
might be something to worry about). But witha centersection tank like I ha
ve, it won=99t take much motion to rupture afuel line and cause a fir
e.
Another point to consider is that usingstreamline tubing produces much less
drag than round tubing (there is almost noworse shape moving through the a
ir than a round tube), but the round tube ismuch cheaper. Trying to reduce
drag on a Pietenpol is pretty much alosing proposition.
Anyway, this is a good discussion to havefor those who are in the building
process and making decisions on how to bracetheir wing structure.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
From:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partn
ers, LLC]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 20149:29 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: a commonplace to undersell yourself---diagonal str
uts
Overthe years we=99ve seen just about every size and type of forward
diagonalstruts used on Pietenpol center sections
inlieu of the X-cable bracing that is shown on the plans to keep the four c
abane(and thus wing) erect, upright, and to keep
itfrom shifting forward in the event of a crash but what is somewhat distur
bingis seeing very small diameter tubing used here
insuch a critical area.
Ifthose diagonal struts are too small or not strong enough the wing will co
meforward in an accident involving a high rate of
deceleration. Don=99t whimp out on what size tubing or strut material
you=99re usingup there----it could save your life or ruin your day
anda passenger=99s day.
MikeC.
Ohio
OneI would not let someone I loved ridein.
One I would gladly let someone
I lovedridein.
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | engine starts/runs |
Can't imagine you will ever be comfortable with a carb that hasn't been rebuilt
by an FAA certified specialist. Ya'll be careful!
------------------------------
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 2:02 AM CDT Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote:
>*
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
>Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
>two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
>in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
>and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
>of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
>such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
>HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 14-07-08&Archive=Pietenpol
>
>Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 14-07-08&Archive=Pietenpol
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 07/08/14: 37
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Today's Message Index:
>----------------------
>
> 1. 06:21 AM - Re: Engine Starts/Runs (Michael Perez)
> 2. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Michael Perez)
> 3. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: Engine Starts/Runs (Michael Perez)
> 4. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: Engine Starts/Runs ()
> 5. 06:53 AM - Fuel Float...Doesn't (Michael Perez)
> 6. 07:08 AM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (Jack Phillips)
> 7. 07:24 AM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (tools)
> 8. 07:36 AM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (Michael Perez)
> 9. 07:46 AM - cork sealant that works (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC])
> 10. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Steven Dortch)
> 11. 07:51 AM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (Michael Perez)
> 12. 07:54 AM - Re: cork sealant that works (Michael Perez)
> 13. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Michael Perez)
> 14. 08:41 AM - cork floats in nose fuel tanks (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC])
> 15. 08:56 AM - Re: cork floats in nose fuel tanks (Michael Perez)
> 16. 08:57 AM - Re: Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Ryan Mueller)
> 17. 08:59 AM - corks (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
> 18. 09:31 AM - completeness of plans (Pocono John)
> 19. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Michael Perez)
> 20. 09:57 AM - Re: completeness of plans (Jack)
> 21. 10:02 AM - Glue (Robert Gow)
> 22. 10:24 AM - Re: Glue (glenschweizer@yahoo.com)
> 23. 10:28 AM - Re: completeness of plans (Jack Phillips)
> 24. 10:52 AM - Re: Glue (Robert Gow)
> 25. 10:55 AM - Re: Glue (womenfly2)
> 26. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: Glue (Robert Gow)
> 27. 01:00 PM - Re: completeness of plans (tools)
> 28. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Steven Dortch)
> 29. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: Engine Starts/Runs (Michael Perez)
> 30. 02:03 PM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (Barry Davis)
> 31. 05:50 PM - Re: completeness of plans (Charles N. Campbell)
> 32. 05:59 PM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (GNflyer)
> 33. 07:38 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (Clif Dawson)
> 34. 08:04 PM - Re: completeness of plans (AG)
> 35. 08:55 PM - Re: Seatbelt eyebolts. (taildrags)
> 36. 09:10 PM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (taildrags)
> 37. 09:56 PM - Re: BFR (taildrags)
>
>
>
>________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:21:02 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Starts/Runs
>
>Thank you Matt. I expected the engine to light, sputter, die. Then a few pu
>lls later...more sputter, cough, die. Another few pulls...hack, cough, then
> finally run and settle into a nice idle.- I was happy to see/hear it lig
>ht and immediately settle to a nice smooth idle. =0A=0AI am moving on to at
>taching the wings so I can start fabricating cross cables, cabane diagonals
>, etc. I don't believe I can get the plane out of the garage with the wings
> on, so the next engine run will be after the wings come back off, (so I ca
>n move it back into the shop) and I get ready to store it for winter.=0A=0A
>Thank you all for the encouraging posts, emails and texts.=0A=0A=0A=0A-
>=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFi
>rst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:30:32 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: July 5th...New Milestone
>
>I will continue to divide my time between flight training and building. However,
>the major building is really close to being complete. I have a few items left
>to fabricate and some other small items I plan to work on during the winter.
>
>Having soloed has really changed my motivation. At times, I was not looking forward
>to the drive out to the strip for more of the same work, just to make the
>drive home feeling like I accomplished nothing. Now, I am excited to fly alone
>and really work on my skills and procedures.
>
>
>Thank you all for the encouraging posts, emails and texts.
>
>If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>Mike Perez
>Karetaker Aero
>First engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:34:17 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Starts/Runs
>
>No joy on the You Tube vid. as of yet, but here is a picture just after shu
>tdown.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKare
>taker Aero=0AFirst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:49:04 AM PST US
>From: <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Starts/Runs
>
>Great pic..... Mike! Congrats!!
>
>
>Brian
>SLC-UT
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
>t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez
>Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 7:34 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Starts/Runs
>
>No joy on the You Tube vid. as of yet, but here is a picture just after shu
>tdown.
>
>If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>Mike Perez
>Karetaker Aero
>First engine start complete!
>
>
>________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:53:45 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>I bought two cork floats from ACS. I took one, coated it with either T-88 o
>r varnish, (Don't recall which...) and found out during the fuel flow tests
>, it sinks.- The "gauge" consists of the cork float and a thin wire passi
>ng through it.- I plan to test the other cork, as is, from ACS and hope i
>t floats. Any other suggestions?=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch
> seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretakerAero=0AFirst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:08:27 AM PST US
>From: "Jack Phillips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>What is your wire made of? I found that a steel wire requires a vry large
>cork to support it. I made my wire out of aluminum, and just melted a ball
>on the end with my oxy-acetylene torch and painted it balze orange. I
>coated the cork and the paint on the ball with epoxy varnish. After 10
>years it hasn't sunk yet.
>
>
>Here's a picture that shows my fuel gage as seen from the rear cockpit:
>
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>NX899JP
>
>Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
>Perez
>Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 9:54 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>
>I bought two cork floats from ACS. I took one, coated it with either T-88 or
>varnish, (Don't recall which...) and found out during the fuel flow tests,
>it sinks. The "gauge" consists of the cork float and a thin wire passing
>through it. I plan to test the other cork, as is, from ACS and hope it
>floats. Any other suggestions?
>
>
>If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>
>Mike Perez
>
>Karetaker Aero
>
>First engine start complete!
>
>
>________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:24:29 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
>
>
>Cork is pretty rough and porous. Not sure coating it helps. It's nigh near inevitable
>that there's gaps in coverage UNLESS you really coat it thickly with
>epoxy, which'll make it a lot heavier and even less able to support weight.
>
>Is the cork you bought designed to hold an indicator UP out of the fuel (as in
>a nose tank), or hang DOWN (as into a transparent sump in a wing tank) into fuel?
>The latter can be smaller.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426292#426292
>
>
>________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:36:45 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>Hi Jack. My float is in the tank, passing through the tank cap. (Nose mount
>ed tank.)- I thought that maybe the clearance between the wire on the cor
>k and the tube is slides in, through the cap, was too tight. So I held it i
>n hand and stuck it into a jug of 100LL and it sank!- I believe the wire
>is S.S. welding rod. I just measured a .062" dia. welding rod I have here n
>ow, I believe my float wire is thinner.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot,
> switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFirst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:46:08 AM PST US
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: cork sealant that works
>
>Congratulations on your solo and engine run Mike P.
>
>
>If the cork is dipped in shellac, allowed to dry one day between coats, and
> given 2-3 coats it will be impervious to avgas for
>
>many years but will not be impervious for auto fuel that contains ethanol.
>
>
>Mike C.
>
>
>Ohio
>
>
>________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:48:21 AM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: July 5th...New Milestone
>From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
>
>Michael, Training in the Cessna 150 is good and cheap. I am a 150 fan. BUT
>please get a really good tailwheel endorsement before you play with your
>Piet. I had an old tyme instructor beat good landings into my head
>(Literally, he rolled up a sectional and hit me on the head while he
>screamed "Step on the ball, dammit!" ) The result was my landings in a J3
>Cub on Saturday during my Biennial Flight Review were echelons better than
>the CFIs and that was after almost two years of not flying.
>
>I am very comfortable with my ability to fly the Piet, but even so I am
>going to beg some time with a couple of guys who own taildraggers just
>before I start flying it.
>
>Blue Skies,
>Steve D
>
>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>wrote:
>
>> I will continue to divide my time between flight training and building.
>> However, the major building is really close to being complete. I have a few
>> items left to fabricate and some other small items I plan to work on during
>> the winter.
>>
>> Having soloed has really changed my motivation. At times, I was not
>> looking forward to the drive out to the strip for more of the same work,
>> just to make the drive home feeling like I accomplished nothing. Now, I am
>> excited to fly alone and really work on my skills and procedures.
>>
>> Thank you all for the encouraging posts, emails and texts.
>>
>> If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>> Mike Perez
>> Karetaker Aero
>> First engine start complete!
>>
>>
>
>
>--
> Blue Skies,
>Steve D
>
>________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:51:02 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>The float is 1.5" long by 1.0" diameter. It came pre-coated/drilled, but it
> seemed to me that the coating was so thin and "broken" that it would not s
>eal.- (Did I test it prior to coating myself...ah, nope...doh!)=0A=0A-
>=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFi
>rst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:54:56 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cork sealant that works
>
>Thanks Mike!- I copied your fuel "gauge" almost exact...guess I missed so
>mething. From the pictures I have of yours, it appears you used only one co
>rk, correct?=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez
>=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFirst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:00:28 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: July 5th...New Milestone
>
>I completely understand Steve. My first 15 or so hours of flight training w
>ere in a 120/140. I was taxing and doing takeoff/landings in it from day on
>e.- I had planned on going back to that for my T.W. endorsement, but anot
>her student locked the brakes after touchdown and rolled it over. I'll be n
>eeding another place/plane for the T.W. work.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-
>pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFirst engine start comp
>lete!
>
>________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:41:44 AM PST US
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: cork floats in nose fuel tanks
>
>I actually shaved/belt sanded two corks so that they would fit in the fuel
>filler neck
>and then epoxied them end to end, inserted the float wire and pulled the j-
>hook into
>the bottom and then started applying the shellac coats.
>
>Mike C.
>Ohio
>
>[cid:image001.jpg@01CF9AA1.7EF5BDC0]
>
>________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:56:36 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cork floats in nose fuel tanks
>
>AH!- I only used a single.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch sea
>ts=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFirst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:57:10 AM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: July 5th...New Milestone
>From: Ryan Mueller <ryan@rmueller.org>
>
>I ran into the same problem at Poplar Grove with their 140 right before I
>started taking lessons, back in the day. :-P
>
>Congratulations on your achievement (both in the air and with your engine),
>keep up the good work,
>
>Ryan
>
>
>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>wrote:
>
>> I completely understand Steve. My first 15 or so hours of flight training
>> were in a 120/140. I was taxing and doing takeoff/landings in it from day
>> one. I had planned on going back to that for my T.W. endorsement, but
>> another student locked the brakes after touchdown and rolled it over.
>> I'll be needing another place/plane for the T.W. work.
>>
>> If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>> Mike Perez
>> Karetaker Aero
>> First engine start complete!
>>
>
>________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:59:22 AM PST US
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: corks
>
>[cid:image001.jpg@01CF9AA3.F43FEA90]
>
>________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:31:46 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: completeness of plans
>From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion@yahoo.com>
>
>
>I'd like to know if the plans are complete, without endless errors and omissions.
>If there are such problems, are they documented somewhere with solutions/corrections?
>I just quit my Hatz Classic project after two years, $8K and 400 hours
>as I want to build a plane; spending my time correcting plans is not what
>I want to do. I'm not a designer or engineer. I need solid, detailed, plans.
>Thank you.
>
>--------
>John
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426307#426307
>
>
>________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:47:26 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: July 5th...New Milestone
>
>Thanks Ryan. It just figures...that 140 has been there for years and it was
> hardly ever used. I flew it for 15 or so hours, then others started to she
>dule it.- I don't know if the "student" was a green pilot or a seasoned v
>et getting a T.W. endorsement.- I hope to get all my training in before s
>omeone wrecks the plane I fly now.- (I'm doing my best to ensure it isn't
> me!)=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaret
>aker Aero=0AFirst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:57:49 AM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: completeness of plans
>From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
>
>
>John I respectfully suggest maybe plans built is not your best direction. All
>have changes and omissions. I believe the archives have an article detailing
>many of the changes. Good luck.
>
>Sent from my iPad
>Jack Textor
>
>> On Jul 8, 2014, at 11:31 AM, "Pocono John" <tinmotion@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'd like to know if the plans are complete, without endless errors and omissions.
>If there are such problems, are they documented somewhere with solutions/corrections?
>I just quit my Hatz Classic project after two years, $8K and 400
>hours as I want to build a plane; spending my time correcting plans is not what
>I want to do. I'm not a designer or engineer. I need solid, detailed, plans.
>Thank you.
>>
>> --------
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426307#426307
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 10:02:00 AM PST US
>From: Robert Gow <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Glue
>
>I have just ordered my wing kit and am wondering if anyone has a strong
>reason use a specific glue like the West System epoxy or other glue.
>
>
>Robert Gow
>
>
>________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 10:24:14 AM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Glue
>From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com
>
>Hello Robert
>Here we go again. You might want to check the archives for many in depth di
>scussions of this topic. Obviously, an important component of your project,
> this is one area where you should follow the lead of previous successes. E
>njoy your build!
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 8, 2014, at 10:01 AM, Robert Gow <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca> wrote:
>>
>> I have just ordered my wing kit and am wondering if anyone has a strong r
>eason use a specific glue like the West System epoxy or other glue.
>>
>> Robert Gow
>>
>>
>3D===============3
>D==============
>==============
>3D===============3
>D==============
>==============
>3D===============3
>D==============
>==============
>3D===============3
>D==============
>==============
>>
>
>________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 10:28:30 AM PST US
>From: "Jack Phillips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: completeness of plans
>
>
>John, in general the Pietenpol plans are pretty good. That is not to say
>that you won't have to spend considerable time studying them, because the
>dimension you need on sheet 4 might have been put on sheet 2 (the plans were
>drawn by a high school student). They apparently are good enough, because
>hundreds of planes have been built from them, most by builders who never
>built an airplane before.
>
>If you want to build a plane with excellent plans and drawings, I'd suggest
>contactong Vans Aircraft, and building one of their RV's. If you are
>willing to take the time to study and think over the plans, you'll find
>building a Pietenpol to be a rewarding experience.
>
>Jack Phillips
>NX899JP
>Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pocono John
>Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 12:32 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: completeness of plans
>
>
>I'd like to know if the plans are complete, without endless errors and
>omissions. If there are such problems, are they documented somewhere with
>solutions/corrections? I just quit my Hatz Classic project after two years,
>$8K and 400 hours as I want to build a plane; spending my time correcting
>plans is not what I want to do. I'm not a designer or engineer. I need
>solid, detailed, plans. Thank you.
>
>--------
>John
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426307#426307
>
>
>________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 10:52:10 AM PST US
>From: Robert Gow <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Glue
>
>OK I will see what I can find
>
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>glenschweizer@yahoo.com
>Sent: July 8, 2014 1:24 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Glue
>
>
>Hello Robert
>
>Here we go again. You might want to check the archives for many in depth
>discussions of this topic. Obviously, an important component of your
>project, this is one area where you should follow the lead of previous
>successes. Enjoy your build!
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>On Jul 8, 2014, at 10:01 AM, Robert Gow <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca> wrote:
>
>I have just ordered my wing kit and am wondering if anyone has a strong
>reason use a specific glue like the West System epoxy or other glue.
>
>
>Robert Gow
>
>
>claiming to be http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>claiming to be http://forums.matronics.com
>claiming to be http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 10:55:51 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Glue
>From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>
>
>
>T-88 is fine, even the FAA will approve it on a 337 for STC aircraft on wood repair.
>Is easy to mix, 1:1, and have a good overall strength in a wide range of
>temperatures. Many, many home-builts flying using T-88 epoxy, that is real world
>proof enough.
>
>--------
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426315#426315
>
>
>________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 11:01:35 AM PST US
>From: Robert Gow <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Glue
>
>
>Yes and it is spec'ed by a number of homebuilt kit companies. So T-88 it
>is.
>
>
>Thanks
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of womenfly2
>Sent: July 8, 2014 1:55 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Glue
>
>--> <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>
>
>T-88 is fine, even the FAA will approve it on a 337 for STC aircraft on
>wood repair. Is easy to mix, 1:1, and have a good overall strength in a
>wide range of temperatures. Many, many home-builts flying using T-88
>epoxy, that is real world proof enough.
>
>--------
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426315#426315
>
>
>________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 01:00:26 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: completeness of plans
>From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
>
>
>I assume because of how you asked, you're interested in a plans built plane.
The
>Piet plans are complete without ENDLESS errors and omissions. It's the reason
>I decided to go this way, WHILE my dad was building a Hatz and kept getting
>frustrated with how vague the plans were.
>
>Like mentioned, they are not perfect. However, probably as much as ANY plans
build
>design, there are countless examples, usually one pretty close to where ever
>you live, to go eyeball in person which makes a world of difference.
>
>About the best source of little detail specifics, would be your own camera at
Brodhead.
>In the absence of that, westcoastpiet is an excellent picture resource.
>Asking here and of course contacting a piet owner/builder directly.
>
>The plans aren't good enough to build a kit full of parts, and then assemble them
>into a plane, so you'll have to study them and build as you go. They certainly
>are good enough to estimate accurately how much of whatever material you'll
>need it you want to buy all at once.
>
>Also, there's TONS of VERY usable "quick build kits" out there in the form of
abandoned
>projects or unflyable ones that need restoring or used as a collection
>of parts.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426319#426319
>
>
>________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 01:15:48 PM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: July 5th...New Milestone
>From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
>
>One popular setup for Early (1947 and earlier) Cessna 120/140s was an
>extender that put the wheels forward about 5 or 6 inches to reduce the
>chance for noseovers. It was a factory option. In late 1947 they moved the
>gear forward and did not need the extenders.
>
>Blue Skies,
>Steve D.
>
>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>wrote:
>
>> Thanks Ryan. It just figures...that 140 has been there for years and it
>> was hardly ever used. I flew it for 15 or so hours, then others started to
>> shedule it. I don't know if the "student" was a green pilot or a seasoned
>> vet getting a T.W. endorsement. I hope to get all my training in before
>> someone wrecks the plane I fly now. (I'm doing my best to ensure it isn't
>> me!)
>>
>> If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>> Mike Perez
>> Karetaker Aero
>> First engine start complete!
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
>--
> Blue Skies,
>Steve D
>
>________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 01:37:33 PM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Starts/Runs
>
>Here is the You Tube link to the first engine run. It is heavily cut, so it is
>very short and not much for entertainment. I'll post the full version at a later
>time.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBqgvB5OxVc
>
>If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>Mike Perez
>Karetaker Aero
>First engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 02:03:40 PM PST US
>From: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>Open these 2 attachments. We used #30 size corks.
>
>Barry
>
>NX973BP
>
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
>Perez
>Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 9:54 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>
>I bought two cork floats from ACS. I took one, coated it with either T-88 or
>varnish, (Don't recall which...) and found out during the fuel flow tests,
>it sinks. The "gauge" consists of the cork float and a thin wire passing
>through it. I plan to test the other cork, as is, from ACS and hope it
>floats. Any other suggestions?
>
>
>If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>
>Mike Perez
>
>Karetaker Aero
>
>First engine start complete!
>
>
>________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 05:50:35 PM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: completeness of plans
>From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924@gmail.com>
>
>John, I agree with Jack. The Pietenpol plans (more complete than most give
>them credit for) are still woefully incomplete. I would suggest a kit that
>the directions say, " connect parts A and B with five bolts and nuts as
>shown in illustration A14". I would suggest you go to the Zenith Aircraft
>web site and look at the sample directions. I think the directions are for
>constructing a 601 rudder. Chuck
>
>
>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Jack <jack@textors.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> John I respectfully suggest maybe plans built is not your best direction.
>> All have changes and omissions. I believe the archives have an article
>> detailing many of the changes. Good luck.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> Jack Textor
>>
>> > On Jul 8, 2014, at 11:31 AM, "Pocono John" <tinmotion@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'd like to know if the plans are complete, without endless errors and
>> omissions. If there are such problems, are they documented somewhere with
>> solutions/corrections? I just quit my Hatz Classic project after two years,
>> $8K and 400 hours as I want to build a plane; spending my time correcting
>> plans is not what I want to do. I'm not a designer or engineer. I need
>> solid, detailed, plans. Thank you.
>> >
>> > --------
>> > John
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426307#426307
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 05:59:25 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>From: "GNflyer" <rayeh48@yahoo.com>
>
>
>I have a brass float that was for some year of mustang- have no idea what year
>now, but it has a rolled groove around it at one end and works fine though I have
>yet to make a bottom of the tank gage so it can hang down. it is for now through
>the cap and being a top of the wing center section tank fairly useless
>unless you are brave enough to loosen the seatbelts and raise up enough to view
>it. Raymond
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426333#426333
>
>
>________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:38:06 PM PST US
>From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>
>Mirror. :-) :-)
>
>Clif
>
>being a top of the wing center section tank fairly useless unless you are
>brave enough to loosen the seatbelts and raise up enough to view it. Raymond
>
>
>________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:04:19 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: completeness of plans
>From: "AG" <aglangerco@yahoo.com>
>
>
>In response to your question I should first explain my position.
>I am a first time builder in the relatively early stages of my build.
>
>Now to answer your questions I have already come across numerous "errors/omissions"
>with the plans. - a great source of frustration at times.
>
>One thing I've learned already is this - the "errors/omissions" usually crop up
>when you try to figure out the whole project at one - biting off too big a piece
>to chew on at once.
>
>It seems best to break the project down into little pieces and that makes it more
>manageable- then you can break apart that smaller step or assembly and figure
>out what you know and what you still need to find out to proceed.
>
>At this point I've found both this board, numerous print/web/human sources beneficial
>- and Andrew Pietenpol - the one who sells the plans is more than happy
>to answer many many questions by phone or email (ask me how I know...)
>
>Incidentally - as I progress I'm finding that many of those "omissions" in the
>plans don't actually exist - I just hadn't studied the plans enough or hadn't
>found that misplaced detail.
>
>part of this - I think - is this internet age we live in. So often the temptation
>is to give up and run to Google at the slightest problem -when most of the
>times spending even 5 more minutes studying the drawings would yield the info
>we're looking for.
>
>Perhaps the biggest source of frustration one might find with the Pietenpol is
>the many different ways people build them. Even the plans show 3 different fuselage
>options - 2 landing gear options - 2 wing options etc.
>Secondly - look at 10 Pietenpols and you'll find 10 different ways of building
>a Pietenpol.
>
>This can be more frustrating than a plan which is more "cookie-cutter" as you
have
>to sort through the options and make decisions - but it all depends on how
>you look at it - the Piet really allows you to make it uniquely yours.
>
>Anyway - that's just my novice opinion (long-winded too)
>I understand your frustrations - but so far I believe they can be overcome - ...
>Hope that helps in some way.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426339#426339
>
>
>________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:55:50 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seatbelt eyebolts.
>From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Steve; the wooden disc that I used to transfer the front cockpit shoulder belt
>loads to the cabane X-bracing is purely my own idea of how to transfer the load
>more elegantly. I thought about just clipping onto the crossing point of the
>1/8" cables, but that particular metal-on-metal connection didn't appeal to
>me. Nothing wrong with it, though.
>
>As you know, the secondary purpose of the wooden disc is to provide a rear sight
>for my Browning .50 machine gun. There is a sighting notch in the top of that
>disc, if you'll recall. Several times I've made strafing runs on the train
>that runs to Hondo from Castroville out of San Antonio, with devastating results
>to the train. One time, I overtook the train from behind (took a while),
>strafing it from caboose to engine, then pulled up into a duster turn and used
>up the remainder of my ammo strafing the train back the other way from engine
>to caboose. Never knew what hit 'em.
>
>--------
>Oscar Zuniga
>Medford, OR
>Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>A75 power
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426343#426343
>
>
>________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:10:41 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Mike;
>
>41CC has two corks butted together, inline, on the end of a brass float rod.
I'm
>guessing that the rod is 1/8" but I don't have it here in front of me. These
>corks are much smaller than #30 that the Big Piets use but I don't know what
>size these are. Corky sealed them with T88, I believe, and they have sat in
>100LL for years and years with no sign of waterlogging (fuel logging?)
>
>They don't exactly bob happily on the surface of the fuel, but that adds a little
>bit of dampening. Normal engine vibration in flight keeps the rod free in
>the cap and keeps the float indicating the fuel level as closely as necessary
>for flight. In short, it is neither sluggish and heavy, nor light and bouncy
>in the fuel. Like Goldilocks in Baby Bear's bed, "it's just right".
>
>--------
>Oscar Zuniga
>Medford, OR
>Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>A75 power
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426344#426344
>
>
>________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:56:58 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BFR
>From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Steve: I had to chuckle. My first supervised solo was in a Cub that was probably
>very similar to the one you just took your flight review in. The location
>was Tims Airpark, near Pflugerville, north of Austin, when I was in college at
>UT. Probably 1971. The 40HP cub rented for $12/hour, wet. My instructor, Jack
>Cooper, didn't charge me for his instruction time because he was trying to
>build instructing hours so if I paid for the plane, he would give me dual. I
>soloed it at about 6 hours, so I paid less in rental for those 6 hours of dual
>than you did for one hour of Cub rental alone ;o) Old guys (and our memories)
>rule! ;o)
>
>do not archive
>
>--------
>Oscar Zuniga
>Medford, OR
>Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>A75 power
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426345#426345
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | engine starts/runs |
Can't imagine you will ever be comfortable with a carb that hasn't been rebuilt
by an FAA certified specialist. Ya'll be careful!
------------------------------
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 2:02 AM CDT Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote:
>*
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
>Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
>two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
>in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
>and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
>of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
>such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
>HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 14-07-08&Archive=Pietenpol
>
>Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 14-07-08&Archive=Pietenpol
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Tue 07/08/14: 37
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Today's Message Index:
>----------------------
>
> 1. 06:21 AM - Re: Engine Starts/Runs (Michael Perez)
> 2. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Michael Perez)
> 3. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: Engine Starts/Runs (Michael Perez)
> 4. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: Engine Starts/Runs ()
> 5. 06:53 AM - Fuel Float...Doesn't (Michael Perez)
> 6. 07:08 AM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (Jack Phillips)
> 7. 07:24 AM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (tools)
> 8. 07:36 AM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (Michael Perez)
> 9. 07:46 AM - cork sealant that works (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC])
> 10. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Steven Dortch)
> 11. 07:51 AM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (Michael Perez)
> 12. 07:54 AM - Re: cork sealant that works (Michael Perez)
> 13. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Michael Perez)
> 14. 08:41 AM - cork floats in nose fuel tanks (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage
Partners, LLC])
> 15. 08:56 AM - Re: cork floats in nose fuel tanks (Michael Perez)
> 16. 08:57 AM - Re: Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Ryan Mueller)
> 17. 08:59 AM - corks (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
> 18. 09:31 AM - completeness of plans (Pocono John)
> 19. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Michael Perez)
> 20. 09:57 AM - Re: completeness of plans (Jack)
> 21. 10:02 AM - Glue (Robert Gow)
> 22. 10:24 AM - Re: Glue (glenschweizer@yahoo.com)
> 23. 10:28 AM - Re: completeness of plans (Jack Phillips)
> 24. 10:52 AM - Re: Glue (Robert Gow)
> 25. 10:55 AM - Re: Glue (womenfly2)
> 26. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: Glue (Robert Gow)
> 27. 01:00 PM - Re: completeness of plans (tools)
> 28. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: July 5th...New Milestone (Steven Dortch)
> 29. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: Engine Starts/Runs (Michael Perez)
> 30. 02:03 PM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (Barry Davis)
> 31. 05:50 PM - Re: completeness of plans (Charles N. Campbell)
> 32. 05:59 PM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (GNflyer)
> 33. 07:38 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (Clif Dawson)
> 34. 08:04 PM - Re: completeness of plans (AG)
> 35. 08:55 PM - Re: Seatbelt eyebolts. (taildrags)
> 36. 09:10 PM - Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't (taildrags)
> 37. 09:56 PM - Re: BFR (taildrags)
>
>
>
>________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:21:02 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Starts/Runs
>
>Thank you Matt. I expected the engine to light, sputter, die. Then a few pu
>lls later...more sputter, cough, die. Another few pulls...hack, cough, then
> finally run and settle into a nice idle.- I was happy to see/hear it lig
>ht and immediately settle to a nice smooth idle. =0A=0AI am moving on to at
>taching the wings so I can start fabricating cross cables, cabane diagonals
>, etc. I don't believe I can get the plane out of the garage with the wings
> on, so the next engine run will be after the wings come back off, (so I ca
>n move it back into the shop) and I get ready to store it for winter.=0A=0A
>Thank you all for the encouraging posts, emails and texts.=0A=0A=0A=0A-
>=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFi
>rst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:30:32 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: July 5th...New Milestone
>
>I will continue to divide my time between flight training and building. However,
>the major building is really close to being complete. I have a few items left
>to fabricate and some other small items I plan to work on during the winter.
>
>Having soloed has really changed my motivation. At times, I was not looking forward
>to the drive out to the strip for more of the same work, just to make the
>drive home feeling like I accomplished nothing. Now, I am excited to fly alone
>and really work on my skills and procedures.
>
>
>Thank you all for the encouraging posts, emails and texts.
>
>If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>Mike Perez
>Karetaker Aero
>First engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:34:17 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Starts/Runs
>
>No joy on the You Tube vid. as of yet, but here is a picture just after shu
>tdown.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKare
>taker Aero=0AFirst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:49:04 AM PST US
>From: <brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Starts/Runs
>
>Great pic..... Mike! Congrats!!
>
>
>Brian
>SLC-UT
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
>t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez
>Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 7:34 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Starts/Runs
>
>No joy on the You Tube vid. as of yet, but here is a picture just after shu
>tdown.
>
>If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>Mike Perez
>Karetaker Aero
>First engine start complete!
>
>
>________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:53:45 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>I bought two cork floats from ACS. I took one, coated it with either T-88 o
>r varnish, (Don't recall which...) and found out during the fuel flow tests
>, it sinks.- The "gauge" consists of the cork float and a thin wire passi
>ng through it.- I plan to test the other cork, as is, from ACS and hope i
>t floats. Any other suggestions?=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch
> seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretakerAero=0AFirst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:08:27 AM PST US
>From: "Jack Phillips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>What is your wire made of? I found that a steel wire requires a vry large
>cork to support it. I made my wire out of aluminum, and just melted a ball
>on the end with my oxy-acetylene torch and painted it balze orange. I
>coated the cork and the paint on the ball with epoxy varnish. After 10
>years it hasn't sunk yet.
>
>
>Here's a picture that shows my fuel gage as seen from the rear cockpit:
>
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>NX899JP
>
>Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
>Perez
>Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 9:54 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>
>I bought two cork floats from ACS. I took one, coated it with either T-88 or
>varnish, (Don't recall which...) and found out during the fuel flow tests,
>it sinks. The "gauge" consists of the cork float and a thin wire passing
>through it. I plan to test the other cork, as is, from ACS and hope it
>floats. Any other suggestions?
>
>
>If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>
>Mike Perez
>
>Karetaker Aero
>
>First engine start complete!
>
>
>________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:24:29 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
>
>
>Cork is pretty rough and porous. Not sure coating it helps. It's nigh near inevitable
>that there's gaps in coverage UNLESS you really coat it thickly with
>epoxy, which'll make it a lot heavier and even less able to support weight.
>
>Is the cork you bought designed to hold an indicator UP out of the fuel (as in
>a nose tank), or hang DOWN (as into a transparent sump in a wing tank) into fuel?
>The latter can be smaller.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426292#426292
>
>
>________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:36:45 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>Hi Jack. My float is in the tank, passing through the tank cap. (Nose mount
>ed tank.)- I thought that maybe the clearance between the wire on the cor
>k and the tube is slides in, through the cap, was too tight. So I held it i
>n hand and stuck it into a jug of 100LL and it sank!- I believe the wire
>is S.S. welding rod. I just measured a .062" dia. welding rod I have here n
>ow, I believe my float wire is thinner.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot,
> switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFirst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:46:08 AM PST US
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: cork sealant that works
>
>Congratulations on your solo and engine run Mike P.
>
>
>If the cork is dipped in shellac, allowed to dry one day between coats, and
> given 2-3 coats it will be impervious to avgas for
>
>many years but will not be impervious for auto fuel that contains ethanol.
>
>
>Mike C.
>
>
>Ohio
>
>
>________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:48:21 AM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: July 5th...New Milestone
>From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
>
>Michael, Training in the Cessna 150 is good and cheap. I am a 150 fan. BUT
>please get a really good tailwheel endorsement before you play with your
>Piet. I had an old tyme instructor beat good landings into my head
>(Literally, he rolled up a sectional and hit me on the head while he
>screamed "Step on the ball, dammit!" ) The result was my landings in a J3
>Cub on Saturday during my Biennial Flight Review were echelons better than
>the CFIs and that was after almost two years of not flying.
>
>I am very comfortable with my ability to fly the Piet, but even so I am
>going to beg some time with a couple of guys who own taildraggers just
>before I start flying it.
>
>Blue Skies,
>Steve D
>
>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>wrote:
>
>> I will continue to divide my time between flight training and building.
>> However, the major building is really close to being complete. I have a few
>> items left to fabricate and some other small items I plan to work on during
>> the winter.
>>
>> Having soloed has really changed my motivation. At times, I was not
>> looking forward to the drive out to the strip for more of the same work,
>> just to make the drive home feeling like I accomplished nothing. Now, I am
>> excited to fly alone and really work on my skills and procedures.
>>
>> Thank you all for the encouraging posts, emails and texts.
>>
>> If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>> Mike Perez
>> Karetaker Aero
>> First engine start complete!
>>
>>
>
>
>--
> Blue Skies,
>Steve D
>
>________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:51:02 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>The float is 1.5" long by 1.0" diameter. It came pre-coated/drilled, but it
> seemed to me that the coating was so thin and "broken" that it would not s
>eal.- (Did I test it prior to coating myself...ah, nope...doh!)=0A=0A-
>=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFi
>rst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:54:56 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cork sealant that works
>
>Thanks Mike!- I copied your fuel "gauge" almost exact...guess I missed so
>mething. From the pictures I have of yours, it appears you used only one co
>rk, correct?=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez
>=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFirst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:00:28 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: July 5th...New Milestone
>
>I completely understand Steve. My first 15 or so hours of flight training w
>ere in a 120/140. I was taxing and doing takeoff/landings in it from day on
>e.- I had planned on going back to that for my T.W. endorsement, but anot
>her student locked the brakes after touchdown and rolled it over. I'll be n
>eeding another place/plane for the T.W. work.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-
>pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFirst engine start comp
>lete!
>
>________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:41:44 AM PST US
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: cork floats in nose fuel tanks
>
>I actually shaved/belt sanded two corks so that they would fit in the fuel
>filler neck
>and then epoxied them end to end, inserted the float wire and pulled the j-
>hook into
>the bottom and then started applying the shellac coats.
>
>Mike C.
>Ohio
>
>[cid:image001.jpg@01CF9AA1.7EF5BDC0]
>
>________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:56:36 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cork floats in nose fuel tanks
>
>AH!- I only used a single.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch sea
>ts=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFirst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:57:10 AM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: July 5th...New Milestone
>From: Ryan Mueller <ryan@rmueller.org>
>
>I ran into the same problem at Poplar Grove with their 140 right before I
>started taking lessons, back in the day. :-P
>
>Congratulations on your achievement (both in the air and with your engine),
>keep up the good work,
>
>Ryan
>
>
>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>wrote:
>
>> I completely understand Steve. My first 15 or so hours of flight training
>> were in a 120/140. I was taxing and doing takeoff/landings in it from day
>> one. I had planned on going back to that for my T.W. endorsement, but
>> another student locked the brakes after touchdown and rolled it over.
>> I'll be needing another place/plane for the T.W. work.
>>
>> If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>> Mike Perez
>> Karetaker Aero
>> First engine start complete!
>>
>
>________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:59:22 AM PST US
>From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: corks
>
>[cid:image001.jpg@01CF9AA3.F43FEA90]
>
>________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:31:46 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: completeness of plans
>From: "Pocono John" <tinmotion@yahoo.com>
>
>
>I'd like to know if the plans are complete, without endless errors and omissions.
>If there are such problems, are they documented somewhere with solutions/corrections?
>I just quit my Hatz Classic project after two years, $8K and 400 hours
>as I want to build a plane; spending my time correcting plans is not what
>I want to do. I'm not a designer or engineer. I need solid, detailed, plans.
>Thank you.
>
>--------
>John
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426307#426307
>
>
>________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:47:26 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: July 5th...New Milestone
>
>Thanks Ryan. It just figures...that 140 has been there for years and it was
> hardly ever used. I flew it for 15 or so hours, then others started to she
>dule it.- I don't know if the "student" was a green pilot or a seasoned v
>et getting a T.W. endorsement.- I hope to get all my training in before s
>omeone wrecks the plane I fly now.- (I'm doing my best to ensure it isn't
> me!)=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaret
>aker Aero=0AFirst engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:57:49 AM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: completeness of plans
>From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
>
>
>John I respectfully suggest maybe plans built is not your best direction. All
>have changes and omissions. I believe the archives have an article detailing
>many of the changes. Good luck.
>
>Sent from my iPad
>Jack Textor
>
>> On Jul 8, 2014, at 11:31 AM, "Pocono John" <tinmotion@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'd like to know if the plans are complete, without endless errors and omissions.
>If there are such problems, are they documented somewhere with solutions/corrections?
>I just quit my Hatz Classic project after two years, $8K and 400
>hours as I want to build a plane; spending my time correcting plans is not what
>I want to do. I'm not a designer or engineer. I need solid, detailed, plans.
>Thank you.
>>
>> --------
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426307#426307
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 10:02:00 AM PST US
>From: Robert Gow <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Glue
>
>I have just ordered my wing kit and am wondering if anyone has a strong
>reason use a specific glue like the West System epoxy or other glue.
>
>
>Robert Gow
>
>
>________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 10:24:14 AM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Glue
>From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com
>
>Hello Robert
>Here we go again. You might want to check the archives for many in depth di
>scussions of this topic. Obviously, an important component of your project,
> this is one area where you should follow the lead of previous successes. E
>njoy your build!
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 8, 2014, at 10:01 AM, Robert Gow <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca> wrote:
>>
>> I have just ordered my wing kit and am wondering if anyone has a strong r
>eason use a specific glue like the West System epoxy or other glue.
>>
>> Robert Gow
>>
>>
>3D===============3
>D==============
>==============
>3D===============3
>D==============
>==============
>3D===============3
>D==============
>==============
>3D===============3
>D==============
>==============
>>
>
>________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 10:28:30 AM PST US
>From: "Jack Phillips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: completeness of plans
>
>
>John, in general the Pietenpol plans are pretty good. That is not to say
>that you won't have to spend considerable time studying them, because the
>dimension you need on sheet 4 might have been put on sheet 2 (the plans were
>drawn by a high school student). They apparently are good enough, because
>hundreds of planes have been built from them, most by builders who never
>built an airplane before.
>
>If you want to build a plane with excellent plans and drawings, I'd suggest
>contactong Vans Aircraft, and building one of their RV's. If you are
>willing to take the time to study and think over the plans, you'll find
>building a Pietenpol to be a rewarding experience.
>
>Jack Phillips
>NX899JP
>Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pocono John
>Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 12:32 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: completeness of plans
>
>
>I'd like to know if the plans are complete, without endless errors and
>omissions. If there are such problems, are they documented somewhere with
>solutions/corrections? I just quit my Hatz Classic project after two years,
>$8K and 400 hours as I want to build a plane; spending my time correcting
>plans is not what I want to do. I'm not a designer or engineer. I need
>solid, detailed, plans. Thank you.
>
>--------
>John
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426307#426307
>
>
>________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 10:52:10 AM PST US
>From: Robert Gow <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Glue
>
>OK I will see what I can find
>
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>glenschweizer@yahoo.com
>Sent: July 8, 2014 1:24 PM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Glue
>
>
>Hello Robert
>
>Here we go again. You might want to check the archives for many in depth
>discussions of this topic. Obviously, an important component of your
>project, this is one area where you should follow the lead of previous
>successes. Enjoy your build!
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>On Jul 8, 2014, at 10:01 AM, Robert Gow <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca> wrote:
>
>I have just ordered my wing kit and am wondering if anyone has a strong
>reason use a specific glue like the West System epoxy or other glue.
>
>
>Robert Gow
>
>
>claiming to be http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>claiming to be http://forums.matronics.com
>claiming to be http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 10:55:51 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Glue
>From: "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>
>
>
>T-88 is fine, even the FAA will approve it on a 337 for STC aircraft on wood repair.
>Is easy to mix, 1:1, and have a good overall strength in a wide range of
>temperatures. Many, many home-builts flying using T-88 epoxy, that is real world
>proof enough.
>
>--------
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426315#426315
>
>
>________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 11:01:35 AM PST US
>From: Robert Gow <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Glue
>
>
>Yes and it is spec'ed by a number of homebuilt kit companies. So T-88 it
>is.
>
>
>Thanks
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of womenfly2
>Sent: July 8, 2014 1:55 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Glue
>
>--> <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>
>
>T-88 is fine, even the FAA will approve it on a 337 for STC aircraft on
>wood repair. Is easy to mix, 1:1, and have a good overall strength in a
>wide range of temperatures. Many, many home-builts flying using T-88
>epoxy, that is real world proof enough.
>
>--------
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426315#426315
>
>
>________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 01:00:26 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: completeness of plans
>From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
>
>
>I assume because of how you asked, you're interested in a plans built plane.
The
>Piet plans are complete without ENDLESS errors and omissions. It's the reason
>I decided to go this way, WHILE my dad was building a Hatz and kept getting
>frustrated with how vague the plans were.
>
>Like mentioned, they are not perfect. However, probably as much as ANY plans
build
>design, there are countless examples, usually one pretty close to where ever
>you live, to go eyeball in person which makes a world of difference.
>
>About the best source of little detail specifics, would be your own camera at
Brodhead.
>In the absence of that, westcoastpiet is an excellent picture resource.
>Asking here and of course contacting a piet owner/builder directly.
>
>The plans aren't good enough to build a kit full of parts, and then assemble them
>into a plane, so you'll have to study them and build as you go. They certainly
>are good enough to estimate accurately how much of whatever material you'll
>need it you want to buy all at once.
>
>Also, there's TONS of VERY usable "quick build kits" out there in the form of
abandoned
>projects or unflyable ones that need restoring or used as a collection
>of parts.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426319#426319
>
>
>________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 01:15:48 PM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: July 5th...New Milestone
>From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
>
>One popular setup for Early (1947 and earlier) Cessna 120/140s was an
>extender that put the wheels forward about 5 or 6 inches to reduce the
>chance for noseovers. It was a factory option. In late 1947 they moved the
>gear forward and did not need the extenders.
>
>Blue Skies,
>Steve D.
>
>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>wrote:
>
>> Thanks Ryan. It just figures...that 140 has been there for years and it
>> was hardly ever used. I flew it for 15 or so hours, then others started to
>> shedule it. I don't know if the "student" was a green pilot or a seasoned
>> vet getting a T.W. endorsement. I hope to get all my training in before
>> someone wrecks the plane I fly now. (I'm doing my best to ensure it isn't
>> me!)
>>
>> If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>> Mike Perez
>> Karetaker Aero
>> First engine start complete!
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
>--
> Blue Skies,
>Steve D
>
>________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 01:37:33 PM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Starts/Runs
>
>Here is the You Tube link to the first engine run. It is heavily cut, so it is
>very short and not much for entertainment. I'll post the full version at a later
>time.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBqgvB5OxVc
>
>If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>Mike Perez
>Karetaker Aero
>First engine start complete!
>
>________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 02:03:40 PM PST US
>From: "Barry Davis" <bed@mindspring.com>
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>Open these 2 attachments. We used #30 size corks.
>
>Barry
>
>NX973BP
>
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
>Perez
>Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 9:54 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>
>I bought two cork floats from ACS. I took one, coated it with either T-88 or
>varnish, (Don't recall which...) and found out during the fuel flow tests,
>it sinks. The "gauge" consists of the cork float and a thin wire passing
>through it. I plan to test the other cork, as is, from ACS and hope it
>floats. Any other suggestions?
>
>
>If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
>
>Mike Perez
>
>Karetaker Aero
>
>First engine start complete!
>
>
>________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 05:50:35 PM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: completeness of plans
>From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924@gmail.com>
>
>John, I agree with Jack. The Pietenpol plans (more complete than most give
>them credit for) are still woefully incomplete. I would suggest a kit that
>the directions say, " connect parts A and B with five bolts and nuts as
>shown in illustration A14". I would suggest you go to the Zenith Aircraft
>web site and look at the sample directions. I think the directions are for
>constructing a 601 rudder. Chuck
>
>
>On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Jack <jack@textors.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> John I respectfully suggest maybe plans built is not your best direction.
>> All have changes and omissions. I believe the archives have an article
>> detailing many of the changes. Good luck.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> Jack Textor
>>
>> > On Jul 8, 2014, at 11:31 AM, "Pocono John" <tinmotion@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'd like to know if the plans are complete, without endless errors and
>> omissions. If there are such problems, are they documented somewhere with
>> solutions/corrections? I just quit my Hatz Classic project after two years,
>> $8K and 400 hours as I want to build a plane; spending my time correcting
>> plans is not what I want to do. I'm not a designer or engineer. I need
>> solid, detailed, plans. Thank you.
>> >
>> > --------
>> > John
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426307#426307
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 05:59:25 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>From: "GNflyer" <rayeh48@yahoo.com>
>
>
>I have a brass float that was for some year of mustang- have no idea what year
>now, but it has a rolled groove around it at one end and works fine though I have
>yet to make a bottom of the tank gage so it can hang down. it is for now through
>the cap and being a top of the wing center section tank fairly useless
>unless you are brave enough to loosen the seatbelts and raise up enough to view
>it. Raymond
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426333#426333
>
>
>________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:38:06 PM PST US
>From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>
>
>Mirror. :-) :-)
>
>Clif
>
>being a top of the wing center section tank fairly useless unless you are
>brave enough to loosen the seatbelts and raise up enough to view it. Raymond
>
>
>________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:04:19 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: completeness of plans
>From: "AG" <aglangerco@yahoo.com>
>
>
>In response to your question I should first explain my position.
>I am a first time builder in the relatively early stages of my build.
>
>Now to answer your questions I have already come across numerous "errors/omissions"
>with the plans. - a great source of frustration at times.
>
>One thing I've learned already is this - the "errors/omissions" usually crop up
>when you try to figure out the whole project at one - biting off too big a piece
>to chew on at once.
>
>It seems best to break the project down into little pieces and that makes it more
>manageable- then you can break apart that smaller step or assembly and figure
>out what you know and what you still need to find out to proceed.
>
>At this point I've found both this board, numerous print/web/human sources beneficial
>- and Andrew Pietenpol - the one who sells the plans is more than happy
>to answer many many questions by phone or email (ask me how I know...)
>
>Incidentally - as I progress I'm finding that many of those "omissions" in the
>plans don't actually exist - I just hadn't studied the plans enough or hadn't
>found that misplaced detail.
>
>part of this - I think - is this internet age we live in. So often the temptation
>is to give up and run to Google at the slightest problem -when most of the
>times spending even 5 more minutes studying the drawings would yield the info
>we're looking for.
>
>Perhaps the biggest source of frustration one might find with the Pietenpol is
>the many different ways people build them. Even the plans show 3 different fuselage
>options - 2 landing gear options - 2 wing options etc.
>Secondly - look at 10 Pietenpols and you'll find 10 different ways of building
>a Pietenpol.
>
>This can be more frustrating than a plan which is more "cookie-cutter" as you
have
>to sort through the options and make decisions - but it all depends on how
>you look at it - the Piet really allows you to make it uniquely yours.
>
>Anyway - that's just my novice opinion (long-winded too)
>I understand your frustrations - but so far I believe they can be overcome - ...
>Hope that helps in some way.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426339#426339
>
>
>________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 08:55:50 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seatbelt eyebolts.
>From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Steve; the wooden disc that I used to transfer the front cockpit shoulder belt
>loads to the cabane X-bracing is purely my own idea of how to transfer the load
>more elegantly. I thought about just clipping onto the crossing point of the
>1/8" cables, but that particular metal-on-metal connection didn't appeal to
>me. Nothing wrong with it, though.
>
>As you know, the secondary purpose of the wooden disc is to provide a rear sight
>for my Browning .50 machine gun. There is a sighting notch in the top of that
>disc, if you'll recall. Several times I've made strafing runs on the train
>that runs to Hondo from Castroville out of San Antonio, with devastating results
>to the train. One time, I overtook the train from behind (took a while),
>strafing it from caboose to engine, then pulled up into a duster turn and used
>up the remainder of my ammo strafing the train back the other way from engine
>to caboose. Never knew what hit 'em.
>
>--------
>Oscar Zuniga
>Medford, OR
>Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>A75 power
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426343#426343
>
>
>________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:10:41 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
>From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Mike;
>
>41CC has two corks butted together, inline, on the end of a brass float rod.
I'm
>guessing that the rod is 1/8" but I don't have it here in front of me. These
>corks are much smaller than #30 that the Big Piets use but I don't know what
>size these are. Corky sealed them with T88, I believe, and they have sat in
>100LL for years and years with no sign of waterlogging (fuel logging?)
>
>They don't exactly bob happily on the surface of the fuel, but that adds a little
>bit of dampening. Normal engine vibration in flight keeps the rod free in
>the cap and keeps the float indicating the fuel level as closely as necessary
>for flight. In short, it is neither sluggish and heavy, nor light and bouncy
>in the fuel. Like Goldilocks in Baby Bear's bed, "it's just right".
>
>--------
>Oscar Zuniga
>Medford, OR
>Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>A75 power
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426344#426344
>
>
>________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:56:58 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: BFR
>From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Steve: I had to chuckle. My first supervised solo was in a Cub that was probably
>very similar to the one you just took your flight review in. The location
>was Tims Airpark, near Pflugerville, north of Austin, when I was in college at
>UT. Probably 1971. The 40HP cub rented for $12/hour, wet. My instructor, Jack
>Cooper, didn't charge me for his instruction time because he was trying to
>build instructing hours so if I paid for the plane, he would give me dual. I
>soloed it at about 6 hours, so I paid less in rental for those 6 hours of dual
>than you did for one hour of Cub rental alone ;o) Old guys (and our memories)
>rule! ;o)
>
>do not archive
>
>--------
>Oscar Zuniga
>Medford, OR
>Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
>A75 power
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426345#426345
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Landing gear about finished |
I finished my landing gear last night ... I built the die spring type gear that
BH used on the last original. It has been quite a task to complete, but I
am pleased with how it looks.. I hope it performs ok.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426407#426407
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/landing_gear_finished_1_276.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: Landing gear about finished |
Kenny;
Wow! Nice job on the gear. Just wondering (it's not obvious from the photo),
did you crank in a little bit of angle on the axles so when the completed airplane
sits on the gear and the springs compress under the weight, you'll still
have a little positive camber (top of the tire pointing out, not in)? I am presently
having to add some tapered axle shims to restore the positive camber to
my gear, since the tires have been wearing a bit unevenly. I don't know if
the springs on my gear legs have weakened and compressed a bit or what.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426409#426409
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| Subject: | Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts |
I'm about to the point of having mine solidly welded with some streamline tubing
too. I think this winter I'll get my welding artist Jeff Sterling to do the
honors and eliminate the Aurora ball-end fittings from the connection between
my diagonals and verticals and be done with it. I will not need to ever adjust
the sweep-back angle of the cabanes. Unless, of course, I ever re-engine Scout
with something heavier or lighter than a Continental.
Hmmm... shall I go for a Warner Scarab (125 HP, 285 lbs.) or a Rotax 582 (65 HP,
100 lbs)-?
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426410#426410
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Yeh... one of the pilots whom I admired greatly in my early aviation years was
"Woody" Woods. He hauled freight from the border city of Laredo, Texas (my hometown,
and where I got my PPSEL) into Mexico, after nightfall. Hauled appliances
and electronics into Mexico every night... "reverse smuggling" to avoid the
Mexican import duties on foreign products. Woody bought the farm on a night
landing into an unimproved strip in Mexico. His Beech 18, polished aluminum
with just a few tasteful blue accents, was one of the most beautiful airplanes
I had ever seen or probably will ever see, and I would do anything to stand
clear of the airplane while Woody fired up the R-985s and I could smell the big
clouds of blue smoke and hear the radials begin to lope in unison. And I'll
never forget the time I walked into Woody's office and there were parts of a
Piper Pawnee all around the place, freshly recovered in fabric, with the place
full of the smell of Stits. I could not believe that an ordinary person could
cover a real aircraft without special FAA licenses, A&P ratings, training in
the black arts, and permission from the Pope. But Woody recovered a Pawnee in
a week and I was awed by the beautiful work, the pinked edges, the smooth and
straight lines.
He's gone now, like Wayne Lounsberry.
do not archive
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426411#426411
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