Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 07/15/14


Total Messages Posted: 22



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:47 AM - Re: Speaking of latex drying (gliderx5@comcast.net)
     2. 05:04 AM - latex (Douwe Blumberg)
     3. 05:15 AM - Riblett incidence (Douwe Blumberg)
     4. 05:56 AM - Re: Speaking of latex drying (Charles N. Campbell)
     5. 05:58 AM - Re: Ooooops - well we all make misteasks..... (Michael Perez)
     6. 06:02 AM - Re: Corvair College (bdewenter)
     7. 07:00 AM - Recent question about the Riblet airfoil angle ofattack (Barnwell Regional Airport)
     8. 07:19 AM - learning as we go (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
     9. 09:03 AM - Re: Brodhead rigging project - 2014 (DonkDoug)
    10. 02:43 PM - Re: Recent question about the Riblet airfoil angle ofattack (William Wynne)
    11. 03:25 PM - Re: latex (Rick Holland)
    12. 04:43 PM - Re: Re: Brodhead rigging project - 2014 (jim hyde)
    13. 04:51 PM - Re: latex (Scott Knowlton)
    14. 04:58 PM - Re: Ooooops - well we all make misteasks..... (aerocarjake)
    15. 05:28 PM - Re: Brodhead rigging project - 2014 (echobravo4)
    16. 05:57 PM - Re: Speaking of latex drying (gliderx5@comcast.net)
    17. 06:14 PM - Re: Brodhead rigging project - 2014 (jarheadpilot82)
    18. 06:22 PM - Re: Speaking of latex drying (gliderx5@comcast.net)
    19. 06:36 PM - Re: Recent question about the Riblet airfoil angle ofattack (AircamperN11MS)
    20. 07:01 PM - Annual Progress Report (kevinpurtee)
    21. 09:17 PM - Re: Annual Progress Report (aerocarjake)
    22. 11:13 PM - Re: Brodhead rigging project - 2014 (DonkDoug)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:47:12 AM PST US
    From: gliderx5@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: Speaking of latex drying
    Steve I'm painting the wings on my Mirco Mong currently. I laid mine flat on saw horses (less chance of runs), sprayed 4-5 coats on one side over a 3 day period, and let the final coat dry for 2 days before I flipped the wing. I put towels on the saw horses for padding. For the tail surfaces I flipped them after just a day, but I wanted to give the wing a little more time to dry due to the weight. As for the inspection holes and such, I stuff cardboard, plastic, paper, or whatever in the holes. Malcolm Morrison wienerdogaero.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Dortch" <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 11:28:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of latex drying And Yes I have watched Malcolm's Latex painting seminar. Learned a lot. Blue Skies, Steve D On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Steven Dortch < steven.d.dortch@gmail.com > wrote: I am about to paint the wings. I have them on a cradle with wheels. It holds both wings nose down with two straps across the leading edges. They lean together against a foam "noodle" about 3/4 back on the chord. My plan is to spray paint the top starting about 16 inches back from the leading edge. then when "dry" I will rotaten them and do the bottoms. Then when dry I will set it on a couple of tables to spray the leading edges. The high quality sherwin williams DTM latex (acrylic) paint I am using says it is dry to the touch in 30 min to an hour. tack free in 2-4 hours, and to recoat in 2-4 hours. It cures in 30 days. How long should I wait before I can lean the newly painted surface against the noodle? How about putting the leading edge back down into the cradle? Are there any other tips yall have? IE how do I fill the inspection holes so I can spray around them? Blue Skies, Steve D " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Blue Skies, Steve D


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:04:28 AM PST US
    From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
    Subject: latex
    Hey Steve, My experience with spraying latex was that while it "felt" dry, if leaned against anything, it would still kind of stick or take an imprint. Any clever means you can devise to move it so you don't have to stop spraying, YET doesn't have to put much pressure on newish paint is a good thing. I say you can't have too many inspection holes. Now's a great time to add them to every conceivable location, just the rings and leave the fabric. Paint right over everything and then down the road you can cut out the fabric, paint a plate and start using it. Just the rings are pretty darn innocuous. Douwe


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:15:14 AM PST US
    From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Riblett incidence
    I've contacted P.F. Beck and asked if they knew the incidence measurement of his friends' plane. If flies very well, so whatever they did is correct. The only other Riblett equipped Piet I am aware of is Lowell's. His wing is shorter than stock, and according to him flies well, except (as noted) requires forward stick at higher speeds (the only speed he flew at I think.) I'll report back. Douwe


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:56:09 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Speaking of latex drying
    From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924@gmail.com>
    Actually, I've read posts where the guys say it's a lot easier to paint latex with a foam brush and looks just as good. No personal experience, however. Just passing along what I've read. When I get to that point I'm going to use a brush simply because I don't have any place to spray paint. I don't think the garage would make a very good spray booth. Chuck On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 6:46 AM, <gliderx5@comcast.net> wrote: > Steve > > I'm painting the wings on my Mirco Mong currently. I laid mine flat on saw > horses (less chance of runs), sprayed 4-5 coats on one side over a 3 day > period, and let the final coat dry for 2 days before I flipped the wing. I > put towels on the saw horses for padding. For the tail surfaces I flipped > them after just a day, but I wanted to give the wing a little more time to > dry due to the weight. As for the inspection holes and such, I stuff > cardboard, plastic, paper, or whatever in the holes. > > Malcolm Morrison > wienerdogaero.com > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Steven Dortch" <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> > *To: *"Pietenpol" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > *Sent: *Monday, July 14, 2014 11:28:39 PM > *Subject: *Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of latex drying > > And Yes I have watched Malcolm's Latex painting seminar. Learned a lot. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > > On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com > > wrote: > >> I am about to paint the wings. I have them on a cradle with wheels. It >> holds both wings nose down with two straps across the leading edges. They >> lean together against a foam "noodle" about 3/4 back on the chord. >> >> >> >> My plan is to spray paint the top starting about 16 inches back from the >> leading edge. then when "dry" I will rotaten them and do the bottoms. Then >> when dry I will set it on a couple of tables to spray the leading edges. >> >> >> >> The high quality sherwin williams DTM latex (acrylic) paint I am using >> says it is dry to the touch in 30 min to an hour. tack free in 2-4 hours, >> and to recoat in 2-4 hours. It cures in 30 days. >> >> >> >> How long should I wait before I can lean the newly painted surface >> against the noodle? How about putting the leading edge back down into the >> cradle? >> >> >> >> Are there any other tips yall have? IE how do I fill the inspection holes >> so I can spray around them? >> >> >> >> Blue Skies, >> >> Steve D >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> >> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> >> >> * >> >> > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > * > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> > tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com> > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> > > * > > > * > > > * > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:58:54 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Ooooops - well we all make misteasks.....
    As I get closer to completion of my build, I think back over the years at w hat I have done, the time spent to do it and the cost.- This month marks year six for my build, (and I plan on having it finished prior to winter) a nd I figure about a year of that was spent fixing mistakes and re-doing "gr eat ideas" that I had.- Another 6 months or so just in cleaning the shop area, keeping things organized and shuffling around wings, engines, cars, t ools, etc. to make room as more pieces come together and take up space.- =0A=0A=0AMistakes are a huge part of the learning process...I should be the smartest one on this forum!=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch sea ts=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AFirst engine start complete!


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:02:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Corvair College
    From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse@woh.rr.com>
    You will definately enjoy Corvair College! While I have not been to the Zenith factory CC yet, I have attended the past 4 at Barnwell and this year will be #5. William Wynn's web site(s) have a ton a articles about prior colleges, what to expect and what to bring with you - Above all bring a positive attitude!Enjoy! -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426712#426712


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:00:43 AM PST US
    From: "Barnwell Regional Airport" <barnwellairport@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Recent question about the Riblet airfoil angle ofattack
    Fellow Pietenpolers, Re recent comments about the Riblet airfoil on a Piet. Last year at Broadhead, I gave a forum comparing my built to the plans long fuselage Pietenpol with my friend Don Harpers extended length fuselage Pietenpol built to the plans EXCEPT with the Riblet 612 airfoil along with all the data we learned during the test flying. [ Maybe someone has a hard copy of the information I presented. Maybe they might share with everyone. I'm not sure I kept a copy.] I don't want to try and repeat the forum information here again, nor start an argument As has been said many times, READ THE ARCHIVES The detailed information is there. To answer two questions, here is what we did because there was no information avaliable at that time. 1. We both used the Pietenpol plans information to build the cabane struts. The front struts are 1" longer than the rear struts.We also did what most builders do and that was make both front and rear struts 2" longer than the plans call for so the front passenger can get in and out easier. Per the plans, this should give 2 degrees angle of attack. 2. Both wings were assembled upside down with the bottom of the ribs against the bottom of the spars. Without going into a very long repeat of the test flight numbers, both planes are flying well. I have about 300 hrs on my plane and Don has about 70 hrs on his. Both planes have a trim system consisting of a bunji cord and adel clamp that slides up and down the control stick for pitch changes. Simple and works well. Anytime you make a throttle change, you also have to make a trim change. My suggestion is....Use either airfoil... build it to the plans ....and it will fly great. P. F.


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:19:23 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: learning as we go
    Funny how when you're building the first set of landing gear fittings take three times as long as the final set. The left wing takes half the time to build after you've built the right wing. The rib stitching goes so much faster after you've done one elevator. T ruing up the motorcycle wheel spokes on the second wheel takes a third of the amount of time as the first wheel did. When I started covering my airplane I asked my dear friend and WWII B-24 pi lot buddy Bill Klosz "so when will I be good at this fabric covering stuff Bill?" Bill replied: "when you're finished covering." He was right. Mike C. Ohio PS-I have a little cardboard box of scrap/rejected aileron horns, instrumen t panel attempts, landing gear fittings that I keep in the hangar and once in a while I'll see that box and open it up and it brings back a flood of g ood memories. [cid:image001.jpg@01CFA016.2EA391B0]


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:03:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brodhead rigging project - 2014
    From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright@okstate.edu>
    William, I found the polars for the Pietenpol airfoil that I had run through the analysis software several years ago. Mr. Pietenpol had the length of the cabanes exactly right for a cruise lift coefficient of .77. By my calculations the front cabanes should be exactly one inch longer than the rear, which, of course, is what the plans call for. In another thread a gentleman stated the Piet he had built with a Riblett 30-612 and cabanes built to the plans flew great. With no disrespect to this individual intended, and admittedly not knowing the conditions under which it was flown or the weight of the plane in order to calculate an appropriate cruise lift coefficient, by my calculations his airplanes angle of incidence is set approximately 3 degrees too high. This may explain why it does not perform any better than his friends plane with the Pietenpol airfoil despite the evidence that the computer simulations indicate that it should. I believe if he were to shorten the front cabanes by 1.5 he would see an improvement in its performance. Doug Wright Stillwater, OK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426719#426719


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:43:08 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Recent question about the Riblet airfoil angle ofattack
    From: "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA@aol.com>
    PF, First, let me say again, thanks for the testing you and Don have done, it is the kind of "measure it, don't speculate" approach that I like. In my first comments about Chris Rusch debugging his stick pressure problem, I recommended he contact PF and Don because I have seen their planes, and I know what effort they put into a fair evaluation of the airfoils. My suggestion was, and still is, that Chris contact them and see if there is some large difference in tail rigging between his plane and Don's, as Don's is known to work. -------------------------------------------------------- My interest in the incidence is primarily to know if BHP changed anything he did on this over time. If there is anyone out there who thinks that an incidence change will suddenly show some advantage to the Riblett airfoil that PF and Don didn't find, let me say that I don't think it's there. If a higher cruise speed Piet with a Riblett would do a bit better with less incidence, my feeling is that the BHP airfoil would do the same, and this would maintain PF and Don's evaluation that the differences are small at best. --------------------------------------------------------- Following PF suggestion to read the archives, I suddenly saw why he might think this topic has been talked out.....There are dozens of headings on this in the archives, many with 500-800 page reads. That is a lot of attention. One of the first things I came across was a comment for John Woods about Graham Hewitt's flying Piet/Riblett plane down under, where Graham was suggesting one degree total incidence, which is the number Doug and I were steering toward from looking at formulas. Again, I don't think this is magically going to make the Riblett 'better' than the original, and I have some suspicion that the Last Original may have this kind of incidence reduction. Testing in two weeks may tell. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Something to think about for builders who thought there might be a big difference: A Cub (and almost all pipers to the Comanche) use a USA-35B airfoil. Taylorcrafts use a NACA-23012. There is a radical shape difference between these two, the USA is under cambered, turbulent flow, and strong pitching moment; The NACA is some what symmetrical, arguably laminar, and has no pitching moment. The wings are both 60" cord, and have 31" spar spacing, and many people have built Cubs with NACA airfoils....it makes some difference, mostly about a 15% speed advantage and some glide ratio. To expect such changes going from the BHP airfoil to the Riblett seems unrealistic, because there is far less difference in design and layout between the BHP and Riblett than there is between the USA and NACA airfoils. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For the people who thought the ultimate test would be two sets of wings on the same day on the same plane, let me point out that there is one better.........One of each wing on the same plane in the same flight. Sound nuts? Yes, but not if you are one of the best pilots who ever lived. There is a legend that Steve Wittman did this on a Tailwind to evaluate the difference between the W-8 wing and the 2nd gen airfoil. He was alleged to be happy that the plane took full control deflection to fly 'straight' in parts of the envelope. I thought it was a half truth or myth, but John Monett and Bill Brennan have both said it was actually done. Brennan added that there were European aviators visiting at the time who left with the firm convictions that Americans are nuts and Steve Wittman deserved the accolades people bestowed on him. ------------------------------------------------------------------ My only thought on this project was that a guy with a model A, wire wheels and straight axle gear should obviously follow the incidence in the plans. As Doug's note points out 65 mph cruise numbers calculation show the BHP airfoil to be at the idealized setting. But what about A guy building a light bird, with split gear, 15-6x6's and a hand prop C-90 with a fast turning prop? Perhaps some benefit to less incidence. My primary clue will come from looking at the Last Original, as it is something like that kind of evolution. If nothing else builders can learn two good lessons, how to calculate incidence.... and to just go read the archives. -ww Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426734#426734


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:25:19 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: latex
    From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
    Correct, latex has to dry for a very long time before you can lay it on anything without having it leave an imprint (like many weeks). I built two stands consisting of a vertical 2x4 standing up on a base with two brackets bolted on, one hooks to the wing root .090 spar brackets and the other to the wing center .090 brackets (very simple and cheap). This allows one or both wings to be hung vertically and only contact at those 4 brackets, this allows you to paint the entire wing at once and let it hang for weeks to dry. rick h On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 6:09 AM, Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink.ne t > wrote: > Hey Steve, > > > My experience with spraying latex was that while it =9Cfelt =9D dry, if leaned > against anything, it would still kind of stick or take an imprint. Any > clever means you can devise to move it so you don=99t have to stop spraying, > YET doesn=99t have to put much pressure on newish paint is a good t hing. > > > I say you can=99t have too many inspection holes. Now=99s a great time to add > them to every conceivable location, just the rings and leave the fabric. > Paint right over everything and then down the road you can cut out the > fabric, paint a plate and start using it. Just the rings are pretty darn > innocuous. > > > Douwe > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado NX6819Z


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:43:01 PM PST US
    From: jim hyde <jnl96@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Brodhead rigging project - 2014
    the design is perfect... why do people want to keep trying to find a way to make it better?=C2- i say just build thefucker and fly =0A=0Ame =0A=0A =0AOn Tuesday, July 15, 2014 11:10 AM, DonkDoug <douglas.wright@okstate.edu glas.wright@okstate.edu>=0A=0AWilliam,=0A=0AI found the polars for the Piet enpol airfoil that I had run through the analysis software several years ag o.=C2- Mr. Pietenpol had the length of the cabanes exactly right for a cr uise lift coefficient of .77.=C2- By my calculations the front cabanes sh ould be exactly one inch longer than the rear, which, of course, is what th e plans call for.=0A=0AIn another thread a gentleman stated the Piet he had built with a Riblett 30-612 and cabanes built to the plans flew =C3=A2 =82=AC=C5=93great.=C3=A2=82=AC=C2- With no disrespect to this individu al intended, and admittedly not knowing the conditions under which it was f lown or the weight of the plane in order to calculate an appropriate cruise lift coefficient, by my calculations his airplane=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s angle of incidence is set approximately 3 degrees too high.=C2- This may explain why it does not perform any better than his friend=C3=A2=82=AC =84=A2s plane with the Pietenpol airfoil despite the evidence that the c omputer simulations indicate that it should.=C2- I believe if he were to shorten the front cabanes by 1.5=C3=A2=82=AC he would see an improvement in its performance.=0A=0ADoug Wright=0AStillwater, OK=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead t his topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4 ==C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -=0A =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 =================


    Message 13


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    Time: 04:51:54 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: latex
    From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k@hotmail.com>
    UGljdHVyZSBwbGVhc2U/IA0KDQpTY290dCBLbm93bHRvbiANCg0KU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IGlQaG9u ZQ0KDQo+IE9uIEp1bCAxNSwgMjAxNCwgYXQgNjoyOCBQTSwgIlJpY2sgSG9sbGFuZCIgPGF0NzAw MGZ0QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiBDb3JyZWN0LCBsYXRleCBoYXMgdG8gZHJ5IGZv ciBhIHZlcnkgbG9uZyB0aW1lIGJlZm9yZSB5b3UgY2FuIGxheSBpdCBvbiBhbnl0aGluZyB3aXRo b3V0IGhhdmluZyBpdCBsZWF2ZSBhbiBpbXByaW50IChsaWtlIG1hbnkgd2Vla3MpLiBJIGJ1aWx0 IHR3byBzdGFuZHMgY29uc2lzdGluZyBvZiBhIHZlcnRpY2FsIDJ4NCBzdGFuZGluZyB1cCBvbiBh IGJhc2Ugd2l0aCB0d28gYnJhY2tldHMgYm9sdGVkIG9uLCBvbmUgaG9va3MgdG8gdGhlIHdpbmcg cm9vdCAuMDkwIHNwYXIgYnJhY2tldHMgYW5kIHRoZSBvdGhlciB0byB0aGUgd2luZyBjZW50ZXIg LjA5MCBicmFja2V0cyAodmVyeSBzaW1wbGUgYW5kIGNoZWFwKS4gVGhpcyBhbGxvd3Mgb25lIG9y IGJvdGggd2luZ3MgdG8gYmUgaHVuZyB2ZXJ0aWNhbGx5IGFuZCBvbmx5IGNvbnRhY3QgYXQgdGhv c2UgNCBicmFja2V0cywgdGhpcyBhbGxvd3MgeW91IHRvIHBhaW50IHRoZSBlbnRpcmUgd2luZyBh dCBvbmNlIGFuZCBsZXQgaXQgaGFuZyBmb3Igd2Vla3MgdG8gZHJ5Lg0KPiANCj4gcmljayBoDQo+ IA0KPiANCj4+IE9uIFR1ZSwgSnVsIDE1LCAyMDE0IGF0IDY6MDkgQU0sIERvdXdlIEJsdW1iZXJn IDxkb3V3ZWJsdW1iZXJnQGVhcnRobGluay5uZXQ+IHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gSGV5IFN0ZXZlLA0KPj4g DQo+PiAgDQo+PiANCj4+IE15IGV4cGVyaWVuY2Ugd2l0aCBzcHJheWluZyBsYXRleCB3YXMgdGhh dCB3aGlsZSBpdCDigJxmZWx04oCdIGRyeSwgaWYgbGVhbmVkIGFnYWluc3QgYW55dGhpbmcsIGl0 IHdvdWxkIHN0aWxsIGtpbmQgb2Ygc3RpY2sgb3IgdGFrZSBhbiBpbXByaW50LiAgQW55IGNsZXZl ciBtZWFucyB5b3UgY2FuIGRldmlzZSB0byBtb3ZlIGl0IHNvIHlvdSBkb27igJl0IGhhdmUgdG8g c3RvcCBzcHJheWluZywgWUVUIGRvZXNu4oCZdCBoYXZlIHRvIHB1dCBtdWNoIHByZXNzdXJlIG9u IG5ld2lzaCBwYWludCBpcyBhIGdvb2QgdGhpbmcuDQo+PiANCj4+ICANCj4+IA0KPj4gSSBzYXkg eW91IGNhbuKAmXQgaGF2ZSB0b28gbWFueSBpbnNwZWN0aW9uIGhvbGVzLiAgTm934oCZcyBhIGdy ZWF0IHRpbWUgdG8gYWRkIHRoZW0gdG8gZXZlcnkgY29uY2VpdmFibGUgbG9jYXRpb24sIGp1c3Qg dGhlIHJpbmdzIGFuZCBsZWF2ZSB0aGUgZmFicmljLiAgUGFpbnQgcmlnaHQgb3ZlciBldmVyeXRo aW5nIGFuZCB0aGVuIGRvd24gdGhlIHJvYWQgeW91IGNhbiBjdXQgb3V0IHRoZSBmYWJyaWMsIHBh aW50IGEgcGxhdGUgYW5kIHN0YXJ0IHVzaW5nIGl0LiAgSnVzdCB0aGUgcmluZ3MgYXJlIHByZXR0 eSBkYXJuIGlubm9jdW91cy4NCj4+IA0KPj4gIA0KPj4gDQo+PiBEb3V3ZQ0KPj4gDQo+PiANCj4+ IA0KPj4gIiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9ibGFuayI+aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRv cj9QaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdA0KPj4gdHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KPj4gX2JsYW5r Ij5odHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uDQo+PiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiAN Cj4gLS0gDQo+IFJpY2sgSG9sbGFuZA0KPiBDYXN0bGUgUm9jaywgQ29sb3JhZG8NCj4gTlg2ODE5 Wg0KPiANCj4gIA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IF8tPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEDQo+IF8tPTNEICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhl IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0IEVtYWlsIEZvcnVtIC0NCj4gXy09M0QgVXNlIHRoZSBNYXRyb25pY3Mg TGlzdCBGZWF0dXJlcyBOYXZpZ2F0b3IgdG8gYnJvd3NlDQo+IF8tPTNEIHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3Qg dXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgTGlzdCBVbi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sDQo+IF8tPTNEIEFyY2hpdmUg U2VhcmNoICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5IEJyb3dzZSwgQ2hhdCwgRkFRLA0KPiBfLT0zRCBQaG90 b3NoYXJlLCBhbmQgbXVjaCBtdWNoIG1vcmU6DQo+IF8tPTNEDQo+IF8tPTNEICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6 Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/UGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3QNCj4gXy09M0QNCj4g Xy09M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9 M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9 M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9 M0Q9M0Q9M0Q9M0QNCj4gXy09M0QgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAtIE1BVFJPTklDUyBXRUIgRk9SVU1T IC0NCj4gXy09M0QgU2FtZSBncmVhdCBjb250ZW50IGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSB0aGUgV2Vi IEZvcnVtcyENCj4gXy09M0QNCj4gXy09M0QgICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3Mu Y29tDQo+IF8tPTNEDQo+IF8tPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEDQo+IF8tPTNEICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTGlzdCBD b250cmlidXRpb24gV2ViIFNpdGUgLQ0KPiBfLT0zRCAgVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGdlbmVy b3VzIHN1cHBvcnQhDQo+IF8tPTNEICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLU1hdHQg RHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLg0KPiBfLT0zRCAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5j b20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uDQo+IF8tPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNE PTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEPTNEDQo+IA0K


    Message 14


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    Time: 04:58:38 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Ooooops - well we all make misteasks.....
    From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
    Thanks for all the positive words. Bought the new spar blanks this morning (sitka spruce) and just cut them to width on the table saw with a friend Ron. Who the heck would do such a thing on an 88 degree afternoon...!! :-) -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426740#426740


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:28:52 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brodhead rigging project - 2014
    From: "echobravo4" <eab4@comcast.net>
    Oh goody! YOU'RE back You never cease to amaze with your mastery of the English language -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426741#426741


    Message 16


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    Time: 05:57:11 PM PST US
    From: gliderx5@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: Speaking of latex drying


    Message 17


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    Time: 06:14:33 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brodhead rigging project - 2014
    From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
    Braniff1996, Remember, this is a public forum and not a locker room or bar with your best buds. Just an aside, but if it was truly perfect, then Mr. Pietenpol would have quit tweaking it to make it better. It is an awesome design but perfect is probably not the right adjective. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426744#426744


    Message 18


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    Time: 06:22:45 PM PST US
    From: gliderx5@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: Speaking of latex drying
    Chuck I tried to post a picture of my Titan Tornado, but every time a attach a picture it blanks out my email, so here's a link to the page that has the picture that I was trying to show (it's the 4th from the botom) http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Tornado.htm . I don't think that you can get the finish shown in the picture with a brush. At least I haven't been able to. This is my Titan Tornado with Sherwinn Williams latex sprayed on, wet sanded, and polished. I've tried brushing and rolling also, and you can get a very acceptable finish that way depending on what you are after. And, you can't beat brushing and rolling for simplicity. But if you want silky smooth and glossy you are probably going to have to spray. BTW, I spray in my garage and in my basement shop with drop cloths hung from the floor joists. I do get dust, but it's easy to sand out and polish. Malcolm Morrison wienerdogaero.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 8:55:48 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of latex drying Actually, I've read posts where the guys say it's a lot easier to paint latex with a foam brush and looks just as good. No personal experience, however. Just passing along what I've read. When I get to that point I'm going to use a brush simply because I don't have any place to spray paint. I don't think the garage would make a very good spray booth. Chuck On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 6:46 AM, < gliderx5@comcast.net > wrote: Steve I'm painting the wings on my Mirco Mong currently. I laid mine flat on saw horses (less chance of runs), sprayed 4-5 coats on one side over a 3 day period, and let the final coat dry for 2 days before I flipped the wing. I put towels on the saw horses for padding. For the tail surfaces I flipped them after just a day, but I wanted to give the wing a little more time to dry due to the weight. As for the inspection holes and such, I stuff cardboard, plastic, paper, or whatever in the holes. Malcolm Morrison wienerdogaero.com From: "Steven Dortch" < steven.d.dortch@gmail.com > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 11:28:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of latex drying And Yes I have watched Malcolm's Latex painting seminar. Learned a lot. Blue Skies, Steve D On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:00 PM, Steven Dortch < steven.d.dortch@gmail.com > wrote: <blockquote> I am about to paint the wings. I have them on a cradle with wheels. It holds both wings nose down with two straps across the leading edges. They lean together against a foam "noodle" about 3/4 back on the chord. My plan is to spray paint the top starting about 16 inches back from the leading edge. then when "dry" I will rotaten them and do the bottoms. Then when dry I will set it on a couple of tables to spray the leading edges. The high quality sherwin williams DTM latex (acrylic) paint I am using says it is dry to the touch in 30 min to an hour. tack free in 2-4 hours, and to recoat in 2-4 hours. It cures in 30 days. How long should I wait before I can lean the newly painted surface against the noodle? How about putting the leading edge back down into the cradle? Are there any other tips yall have? IE how do I fill the inspection holes so I can spray around them? Blue Skies, Steve D " target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp:// forums.matronics.com _blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Blue Skies, Steve D " target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp:// forums.matronics.com _blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution </blockquote>


    Message 19


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    Time: 06:36:04 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Recent question about the Riblet airfoil angle ofattack
    From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
    WW Not trying to come off as being funny. I am willing to repeat Steve Wittman's test in anyone's Piet if you help with all the calculations and rigging. Of coarse someone would need to be willing to offer up their plane for the flight testing. My plane is not a candidate since it has a Cub airfoil. Angle of incidence has a huge effect on flying and landing qualities. It would be very interesting to see the effects. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426747#426747


    Message 20


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    Time: 07:01:58 PM PST US
    Subject: Annual Progress Report
    From: "kevinpurtee" <kevin.purtee@us.army.mil>
    Shelley took these photos for me tonight. Tried to get the airplane into the driveway but it wouldn't fit under the garage door. Sorry for the photographic clutter. Several things are not apparent in the photos. The flight controls are done. The rigging and controls for the tail are complete. The brakes are done. We're getting ready to install the motor. The woodworking on the wings is done and they're stored at the hangar. What's left: install the motor, rig the wings and get the wings struts, cover. Looking to make Brodhead '16. See you next week. -------- Kevin &quot;Axel&quot; Purtee Rebuilding NX899KP Austin/San Marcos, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426749#426749 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fbg4_999.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/fbg3_206.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/fbg2_199.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/fbg1_151.jpg


    Message 21


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    Time: 09:17:46 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Annual Progress Report
    From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
    Looks WONDERFUL..... What a sculpture of art....! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426756#426756


    Message 22


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    Time: 11:13:41 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Brodhead rigging project - 2014
    From: "DonkDoug" <douglas.wright@okstate.edu>
    Mr. Hyde, Let me answer your question and some you have had from earlier posts: Why do people want to keep trying to find a way to make it (the Pietenpol design) better? It is called intellectual curiosity a psychological disposition shared by human beings and higher forms of animal life. As an example, I have an old jackass out on my farm that gets creative every once in awhile and he comes up with new ways to knock down my fences. You should come up and hang out with him. You two would have a lot in common and I think you could learn some things from him. I wonder how my pietie would fly if I didn't cover the fuse....the wood work is nice so im thinking that not covering the fuse I could expose the planes giblets for the world to see. it would also solve the tail heavy issue and save lots of work and money the berlot dint have the fuse covered and it flew fine... sort of... anyone know anyone that has done this??? I am puzzled by this question based on your response to my most recent post. To not cover the fuselage, obviously, would not be as Mr. Pietenpol designed the plane. Despite your vulgar and somewhat rude response to my post, in the egalitarian spirit of this forum, I will attempt to help you with your question about tail-heaviness anyway. William Wynn wrote an informative series of articles on wing placement, motor mount length and other variables that effect CG in the Brodhead Pietenpol Association Newsletter. I understand you are using a proper Continental aircraft engine therefore the issue you would be interested in is January 2011, page 5-7. You could also lose some weight. In reading your posts it is obvious to me you are a man of great intellectual capacity and wisdom. Would you mind sharing some of that by answering a few questions yourself? I noticed you are an advocate of the use and application of AC 43.13. I couldnt agree with you more! Im all about properly constructed and assembled airplanes. So if the Pietenpol design is perfect, as you say, do you recommend I construct a one-piece wing as Mr. Pietenpol designed it? And if so, would you fly it? Are four 8d nail adequate to secure the scarf or would you pound in a few more for good measure? What is your opinion about substituting lag screws, instead? Maybe a little bailing wire? We dont square-bail much up here any more but I think I could find some. In a thread dated 21 MAR 14 William Wynne responded to your comments about the use of auto conversions in homebuilts. He wrote: Very nice resume. Sounds like you have been around planes for a long time. I have not seen that BHP ever had an engine other than a Ford or a Corvair in his personal Air campers, other than a single photo of one that briefly had a Villie radial. Your comment "put an airworthy AIRPLANE motor in the nose" strikes me as interesting. Are you saying BHP didn't build his own plane the right way? He bought his first Corvair engine in 1960. It cost about $500. My guess is that a used $500 A-65 in 1960 frequently could be had with a free used Cub airframe bolted to it as a package deal. I think the man wanted to use a Corvair, I don't think he was trying to save money. He built two new planes in the next decade, both with Corvairs. If someone builds an exact replica of the "Last original", I think he is building arguably by the last and most up to date set of plans. You can't get more original than that.-ww For some reason I was unable to find your response. Would you mind answering his question "Are you saying BHP didn't build his own plane the right way?" again? On 24 FEB 14 you wrote: my plans have nothing about safety wire. my ac 43-13 is full of data on when and how to use it. I never waste time thinking about stuff that has already been decided by very smart people. its all simple to me just do what the book says and don't waste valuable time thinking. at 70 I have learned that time is short...the best part about building a piet is that its a proven design. just follow the plans, use the wood recommended in the AC, same for hardware, fabric and paint. I will admit that I spent about 30 min deciding on the best glue for me. I will assure any builder that makes changes will fuck up a very good design. one thing that I learned in my 55 years in aviation leave the thinking to others. most of us are not properly equipped to be thinking. You obviously place great value on smart people and to leave the thinking to people that have this ability, and to the use of the F word. How does a person know when they are qualified to think on their own? And if they are not qualified, how does a person develop this capacity? Would reading and contributing to a forum such as this be a legitimate method? I also understand you are a teacher of some sort. Do you encourage your students to think on their own or are they simply required to provide rote answers to your questions? Do you tolerate their use of the F word in class? And lastly, on 11 NOV 13 you wrote: the last pencils I bought came from a drunk indian on the street Glendale, az My question is not if you are a racist. The answer to that is obvious. My question for you and Mr. Dralle is how have you been allowed to remain on this forum with your vulgar, hateful, and racist language for over a year and a half? Doug Wright Stillwater, OK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426759#426759




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