---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/28/14: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment (Michael Orth) 2. 07:55 AM - Cuy W&B data----smaller document size attached (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 3. 08:28 AM - Re: Brodhead Report (tools) 4. 08:40 AM - Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment (jarheadpilot82) 5. 09:18 AM - Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment (taildrags) 6. 09:24 AM - Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment (taildrags) 7. 11:53 AM - photo of Dan Helsper flying his Piet (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 8. 12:27 PM - leading edge idea for Piet wing and Westcoast Piet site (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 9. 12:54 PM - Brodhead 2014 (Douwe Blumberg) 10. 12:58 PM - Re: Re: Brodhead Report (Boatright, Jeffrey) 11. 01:09 PM - Re: Brodhead 2014 (Gary Boothe) 12. 01:52 PM - Re: Brodhead 2014 (glenschweizer@yahoo.com) 13. 04:25 PM - Re: Brodhead 2014 (Steven Dortch) 14. 04:49 PM - Re: leading edge idea for Piet wing and Westcoast Piet site (shad bell) 15. 06:02 PM - Re: photo of Dan Helsper flying his Piet (taildrags) 16. 06:32 PM - Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment (Braniff1966) 17. 08:43 PM - Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment (Bill Church) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:00 AM PST US From: "Michael Orth" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment Awww, come on, Braniff1966. Tell us what you really think. Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Braniff1966 Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 7:36 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment jesus christ this plane was designed in 1927.. old piety did all of the work and thinking.. dont worry about weight. just dont carry a fat assed passenger or be a fat ass yourself.. just dont fuck with any thing build it and fly it. leave the thinking to those dudes and dudettes that are good at it. i build exactly to the plan and do NO thinking...i beleive that is the correct way. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427423#427423 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:35 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cuy W&B data----smaller document size attached Piet Group: Please forgive the intrusion (as Axel Olsson says in the Grea t Waldo Pepper) but I reformatted my weight and balance Word document to b e much smaller than the original .pdf file I sent Saturday in case some of yo u didn't receive the post with the attachment. Here's what I posted on Saturday just in case it didn't come thru for you. Mike C. William Wynne writes: "the reason why I am giving Mike C a hard time on W&B is actually on your b ehalf: I strongly suspect that Mike is not sharing his W&B because he is at times flying behind the aft limit. That is his choice, but when he then te lls new guys like you to build your plane just like his, I think he is doi ng a disservice. If this is true, your loyalty is to the wrong guy. Mike, w hen you share the numbers, be aware that I am good enough to know if you ar e fudging it. Dear William-you have such grand visions of paranoia about why I have not s hared my weight and balance. My world is not small enough to worry abou t what you think of me sharing or not sharing my weight and balance with the list because the guy I am trying to help (as he stated just yester day on the Pietenpol list) does in fact have paper copies of my original W &B paperwork in-hand, Mike Perez. I also copied the great notes for Mik e Perez that I had on hand for Mike Perez that Bill Rewey authored on how to do a g ood W&B on our little Pietnepol airplanes so Mike could have several differ ent ways of doing his own calculations and choose the one that fit his math ematic style and likes best. And thankfully, with the outstanding W&B teachings and guidelines that my Uncle Tony Bingelis authored for us in this wonderful book series on homeb uilt aircraft, I was able to conduct an accurate and complete W&B on my ai rplane and compare that with the dozens of Pietenpol builders whom I had me t at Brodhead after measuring their wing set-back, knowing their personal body weights, and talking with them about how their plane flies full fuel, low fuel, long fuselage, short fuselage, extended motor mount, as-plans motor mount and soforth and examining their W&B paperwork to guide me as I built my Pietenpol and made my own decisions . Go ahead and double check my original pencil-drawn and .pdf scanned pap erwork from 16 years ago that I prepared for myself, for the FAA MIDO Insp ector, and for future owner/operators of my aircraft for when I am long go ne but certainly not for you and your little paranoia's about why I haven' t posted my numbers to the list. I have better things to do with my li fe than to fudge my data to see if you can catch any errors and I'm a bit s tupid at times but I'm never stupid enough to build and fly my own airplane in an aft-CG condition. You're wasting your time worrying about what yo u "suspect" others are doing or not doing and what might motivate them and you are distracting from the good nature of this list with negativity and y our critical nature that just divides. And William, besides making sure my plane was built to have a very safe an d good operating CG range, I took great pains to ensure that my plane was built to the best of my ability, using all the educational reading material s at my disposal, and with the best aircraft-grade materials and aircraft engine overhaul practices of the day so that I could have confidence in fly ing safely for years to come and so that I would have confidence in giving rides to precious Mom's, Dad's, Grandparents, sons, daughters, school k ids, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Aunts, Uncles, little kids, big kids, old g uys, young guys, young gals, old gals, Aunts, nieces, nephews, neighbo r kids, 4-H kids, Young Eagle kids, my own brother, dearest friend Bill , the EAA photographers in the trenches at New Holstein, an F-18 West Co ast Demonstration Team pilot who was building his own RV-6 (named James Sh oenberger in case you "suspect that Mike Cuy isn't telling the truth...agai n.." ) , A Pearl Harbor survivor, an airport bum, people at the Brodhead f ly-in and many other fly-in's around Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, a high s chool friend and his children, his wife, his best friend...... and yes, ev en Michael Perez, his wife Susan , and his two boys. Even last night I gave a ride to a precious High School senior from the are a who means the world to me and her Mom, a Kindergarten school mate of min e from 50 years ago (that would be 1964) (we were 5 when me met) allowed her daughter to take flight with me and I had no reservations about giving her that ride and sharing this wonderful gift of flight that we ultimately build a 2-seat, open cockpit airplane for. Mike C. Ohio [cid:image001.jpg@01CFA8D3.1754C130] ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:34 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead Report From: "tools" Well, not much of a report, but it went really well. I thought plenty of Piets for a good showing. Not as much flying as usual in terms of dawn and dusk patrols, but I finally did get my Piet there and got in a lot of flying. One gent came over, was looking at my plane and mentioned he BUILT one, registered it, got it inspected, has taxied it, it's fueled and at the airport... but has NEVER even ridden in one! So we fixed that, gave a couple more rides to builders with no rides or experiences. LOTS of kids that work the event. One older gentleman who giggled like a school girl for the next two days. Really made the 10 hours of seat time getting it there worth the effort. Probably 20 or more rides in total. Saddled up with the Minnesota crowd and the Canadian bird and flew into Oshkosh! THAT was quite an experience. So, pretty busy with my project at airventure, so will be quite scarce this week. Maybe I can get some pics and post them. Cheers, Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427439#427439 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:59 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment From: "jarheadpilot82" Mike (Cuy), Would you please repost your weight and balance data? I have encountered the "Matronics Triangle" where postings often enter and are never seen or heard from again. I have seen the discussion of, but not the original post. If you could redo, that would be appreciated. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427441#427441 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:13 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment From: "taildrags" Clif; I used a uniform loading from centerline to wing tip, so my analysis was incorrect on several counts but I knew that going in. If I use the distribution in the graphic that you attached, it will be a bit different but not by too much. I analyzed the cantilevered section of wing from the lift strut attach point out to the wingtip, looking for the maximum moment to be resisted by the forward wing spar at the lift strut attach point. The inboard section of the wing is obviously going to be more competent to carry its load since it is supported at both ends rather than being cantilevered. The rear spar is, similarly, going to be competent to carry its share of the load because it is less heavily loaded than the main spar but it is equal in section. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427443#427443 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:22 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment From: "taildrags" One last, minor point: if the wing is rigged with washout, the load will be slightly different from the graph as well. With washout, the root section is lifting even more than the graph indicates (unless it has included some washout effect). All of which goes to help the Piet wing, but I remain cautious about increasing gross weight without a reasoned structural analysis. We put men on the moon using slide rules and pencils; we don't need fancy computer programs to figure out a wing spar structural analysis. I just haven't done it myself or seen such an analysis done to my satisfaction. Your results may vary, however. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427444#427444 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:59 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: photo of Dan Helsper flying his Piet For those of you who are not on Facebook----Dan's wife posted this and I th ought I'd share it with the group. Looks like a gorgeous day to be flying Loensloe Airlines..... Mike C. Ohio [cid:image001.png@01CFAA73.A0BFD080] ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:00 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: leading edge idea for Piet wing and Westcoast Piet site Earl Brown mentioned my leading edge idea that I used on my Piet wings and here's a sketch of that idea plus an idea for your trailing edges (that I also used and found it to work well over the past 16 years) For more chicken-scratch drawings of mine (fashioned after my hero Tony Bi ngelis) see Chris Tracy's incredibly great Wescoast Piet web site. Mike C. http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/mike_cuy_3.htm [cid:image001.jpg@01CFAA78.35C082C0] ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:36 PM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2014 HELLO GOOD PEOPLE! Well, RE-PIET's wheels touched down at her home base at 8:30am this morning after a rather stressful trip home. The WX all the way down was ever-changing and apparently must have been hard to forecast because the briefing I got seemed to have NO basis in reality and every other forecast I saw disagreed with eachother. Dan Helsper was an hour ahead of me and kindly called me with real-time WX each time he landed which was really invaluable for a fairly inexperienced cross-country pilot. Illinois was pretty good, but windy as the day went on. I got down to Kanakakee ("no gas sir, a Stearman just bought us out" thank God for my big wing tank) before I tried for Kokomo, Indiana. WX said Kokomo was okay, but with a big crosswind. However as I went the puffy clouds grew closer and closer and finally became a solid ceiling which gradually descended as I got close. I knew I could turn around and get out of it so I pressed on and felt great relief when I saw the beautiful grass field below me. Swooped in landed fighting a really bad crosswind, but it was fine. WX then got really nice for a couple of hours, then a big squall line rolled through with the first big drops and wind hitting right as we rolled my plane into a kindly offered hangar. Decided to be safe and stay the night as the Ohio River Valley looked like crap. Some airport folks took me in and made me a homestyle farmhouse meal after which I slept in the lounge. Wheels up at 7:00am with a 16kt tailwind and made it home through another low ceiling area, but again, I knew I could turn around AND I knew it was good on the other side because Marci was texting me photos, so all went well. Another big crosswind at my asphalt home field to contend with and we were home. Brodhead 2014 was great. The WX was PRETTY decent with good flying evenings and mornings. It got warm and buggy, but no big thunderstorms this year and as observed, the turnout was surprisingly good. I think I counted 14 or 15 Piets. Jill did make it down from Canada with her passenger husband and was a joy to meet. I'm sure I'll leave someone out so, please forgive me but in attendance was: Bach's Piet Dan H Greg Can't remember their name but the white and green one Bob's blue with the yellow nose "Tools" Danford's blue and yellow flew almost constantly RE-PIET Larry "curmudgeon" Williams on a barnstorming tour of the Midwest Jill from the little country north of us A corvair powered "last original" clone, maybe the oldest "non-Bernard" Piet around The Last Original made an appearance or two. Bob's new beautiful Orange and Blue masterpiece The Rudolf piet I saw the Knight Ford-powered red and silver one fly twice, but it didn't dain to park with the riff-raff The Brodhead based red Scout made some flights and actually graced the Pietenpol area for a while. Like I said, I'm sure I'm missing someone's. We sure missed some regulars, but it was awesome to see so many, and some new ones! I wish the Brodhead-based PIets would come out and play more so we could all enjoy them, but they seem happier staying in their homes. As always, it was a great time and I'm already looking forward to Brodhead 2015 Douwe Ps. Did you guys see the Oshkosh "twister" images? Thank God they didn't touch down! One can only imagine. Keep on building, it's worth it. Pss. After sensing for the last year or two a salient shift in the tone of our little group here, and reading some things upon my return, I am going to put together some informal rules and suggestions that might help us regain the kinder/gentler tone this list once had. I'm going to wait until everyone is home and settled and I have time to put my thoughts down, then I'll submit it for suggestions and then each time things get too serious/silly/ or profane.. We can instantly refer to these.. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:58:20 PM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead Report RXh0cmVtZWx5IGtld2whIEZ1bGwgcmVwb3J0IGlzIHJlcXVlc3RlZCwgc2lyIQ0KDQotLQ0KDQpK ZWZmcmV5IEguIEJvYXRyaWdodCwgUGhELCBGQVJWTw0KUHJvZmVzc29yIG9mIE9waHRoYWxtb2xv Z3kNCkVtb3J5IFVuaXZlcnNpdHkgU2Nob29sIG9mIE1lZGljaW5lDQoNCkZyb206IHRvb2xzIDxu MGtrakB5YWhvby5jb208bWFpbHRvOm4wa2tqQHlhaG9vLmNvbT4+DQpSZXBseS1UbzogInBpZXRl bnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb208bWFpbHRvOnBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5j b20+IiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RA bWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4+DQpEYXRlOiBNb25kYXksIEp1bHkgMjgsIDIwMTQgYXQgMTE6MjggQU0N ClRvOiAicGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RA bWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4iIDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPG1haWx0bzpwaWV0 ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPj4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBSZTog QnJvZGhlYWQgUmVwb3J0DQoNCi0tPiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTog InRvb2xzIiA8bjBra2pAeWFob28uY29tPG1haWx0bzpuMGtrakB5YWhvby5jb20+Pg0KDQpXZWxs LCBub3QgbXVjaCBvZiBhIHJlcG9ydCwgYnV0IGl0IHdlbnQgcmVhbGx5IHdlbGwuICBJIHRob3Vn aHQgcGxlbnR5IG9mIFBpZXRzIGZvciBhIGdvb2Qgc2hvd2luZy4gIE5vdCBhcyBtdWNoIGZseWlu ZyBhcyB1c3VhbCBpbiB0ZXJtcyBvZiBkYXduIGFuZCBkdXNrIHBhdHJvbHMsIGJ1dCBJIGZpbmFs bHkgZGlkIGdldCBteSBQaWV0IHRoZXJlIGFuZCBnb3QgaW4gYSBsb3Qgb2YgZmx5aW5nLg0KDQpP bmUgZ2VudCBjYW1lIG92ZXIsIHdhcyBsb29raW5nIGF0IG15IHBsYW5lIGFuZCBtZW50aW9uZWQg aGUgQlVJTFQgb25lLCByZWdpc3RlcmVkIGl0LCBnb3QgaXQgaW5zcGVjdGVkLCBoYXMgdGF4aWVk IGl0LCBpdCdzIGZ1ZWxlZCBhbmQgYXQgdGhlIGFpcnBvcnQuLi4NCg0KYnV0IGhhcyBORVZFUiBl dmVuIHJpZGRlbiBpbiBvbmUhDQoNClNvIHdlIGZpeGVkIHRoYXQsIGdhdmUgYSBjb3VwbGUgbW9y ZSByaWRlcyB0byBidWlsZGVycyB3aXRoIG5vIHJpZGVzIG9yIGV4cGVyaWVuY2VzLiAgTE9UUyBv ZiBraWRzIHRoYXQgd29yayB0aGUgZXZlbnQuICBPbmUgb2xkZXIgZ2VudGxlbWFuIHdobyBnaWdn bGVkIGxpa2UgYSBzY2hvb2wgZ2lybCBmb3IgdGhlIG5leHQgdHdvIGRheXMuICBSZWFsbHkgbWFk ZSB0aGUgMTAgaG91cnMgb2Ygc2VhdCB0aW1lIGdldHRpbmcgaXQgdGhlcmUgd29ydGggdGhlIGVm Zm9ydC4gIFByb2JhYmx5IDIwIG9yIG1vcmUgcmlkZXMgaW4gdG90YWwuDQoNClNhZGRsZWQgdXAg d2l0aCB0aGUgTWlubmVzb3RhIGNyb3dkIGFuZCB0aGUgQ2FuYWRpYW4gYmlyZCBhbmQgZmxldyBp bnRvIE9zaGtvc2ghICBUSEFUIHdhcyBxdWl0ZSBhbiBleHBlcmllbmNlLg0KDQpTbywgcHJldHR5 IGJ1c3kgd2l0aCBteSBwcm9qZWN0IGF0IGFpcnZlbnR1cmUsIHNvIHdpbGwgYmUgcXVpdGUgc2Nh cmNlIHRoaXMgd2Vlay4gIE1heWJlIEkgY2FuIGdldCBzb21lIHBpY3MgYW5kIHBvc3QgdGhlbS4N Cg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KDQpUb29scw0KDQoNCg0KDQpSZWFkIHRoaXMgdG9waWMgb25saW5lIGhlcmU6 DQoNCmh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS92aWV3dG9waWMucGhwP3A9NDI3NDM5IzQy NzQzOQ0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhlIFBpZXRlbnBvbC1M aXN0IEVtYWlsIEZvcnVtIC0NCl8tPSBVc2UgdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBMaXN0IEZlYXR1cmVzIE5h dmlnYXRvciB0byBicm93c2UNCl8tPSB0aGUgbWFueSBMaXN0IHV0aWxpdGllcyBzdWNoIGFzIExp c3QgVW4vU3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uLA0KXy09IEFyY2hpdmUgU2VhcmNoICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5 IEJyb3dzZSwgQ2hhdCwgRkFRLA0KXy09IFBob3Rvc2hhcmUsIGFuZCBtdWNoIG11Y2ggbW9yZToN Cl8tPQ0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/UGlldGVu cG9sLUxpc3QNCl8tPQ0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTUFUUk9OSUNTIFdFQiBG T1JVTVMgLQ0KXy09IFNhbWUgZ3JlYXQgY29udGVudCBhbHNvIGF2YWlsYWJsZSB2aWEgdGhlIFdl YiBGb3J1bXMhDQpfLT0NCl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCl8t PQ0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT0NCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAtIExpc3QgQ29udHJpYnV0aW9uIFdlYiBTaXRlIC0N Cl8tPSAgVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGdlbmVyb3VzIHN1cHBvcnQhDQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAtTWF0dCBEcmFsbGUsIExpc3QgQWRtaW4uDQpfLT0gICAtLT4g aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCg0KDQoNCg0KDQpf X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQpUaGlzIGUtbWFpbCBtZXNzYWdlIChp bmNsdWRpbmcgYW55IGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzKSBpcyBmb3IgdGhlIHNvbGUgdXNlIG9mDQp0aGUgaW50 ZW5kZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50KHMpIGFuZCBtYXkgY29udGFpbiBjb25maWRlbnRpYWwgYW5kIHByaXZp bGVnZWQNCmluZm9ybWF0aW9uLiBJZiB0aGUgcmVhZGVyIG9mIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBpcyBub3Qg dGhlIGludGVuZGVkDQpyZWNpcGllbnQsIHlvdSBhcmUgaGVyZWJ5IG5vdGlmaWVkIHRoYXQgYW55 IGRpc3NlbWluYXRpb24sIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbg0Kb3IgY29weWluZyBvZiB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2Ug KGluY2x1ZGluZyBhbnkgYXR0YWNobWVudHMpIGlzIHN0cmljdGx5DQpwcm9oaWJpdGVkLg0KDQpJ ZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSByZWNlaXZlZCB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgaW4gZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBjb250YWN0 DQp0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGJ5IHJlcGx5IGUtbWFpbCBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBkZXN0cm95IGFsbCBjb3Bp ZXMgb2YgdGhlDQpvcmlnaW5hbCBtZXNzYWdlIChpbmNsdWRpbmcgYXR0YWNobWVudHMpLg0K ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2014 From: Gary Boothe I can hear it now...to the good people of Kokomo, "There I was, over the Her ken Woods...." Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:54 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote: > > > HELLO GOOD PEOPLE! > > Well, RE-PIET=99s wheels touched down at her home base at 8:30am thi s morning after a rather stressful trip home. The WX all the way down was e ver-changing and apparently must have been hard to forecast because the brie fing I got seemed to have NO basis in reality and every other forecast I saw disagreed with eachother. Dan Helsper was an hour ahead of me and kindly c alled me with real-time WX each time he landed which was really invaluable f or a fairly inexperienced cross-country pilot. > > Illinois was pretty good, but windy as the day went on. I got down to Kan akakee (=9Cno gas sir, a Stearman just bought us out=9D thank Go d for my big wing tank) before I tried for Kokomo, Indiana. WX said Kokomo w as okay, but with a big crosswind. However as I went the puffy clouds grew c loser and closer and finally became a solid ceiling which gradually descende d as I got close. I knew I could turn around and get out of it so I pressed on and felt great relief when I saw the beautiful grass field below me. Sw ooped in landed fighting a really bad crosswind, but it was fine. WX then g ot really nice for a couple of hours, then a big squall line rolled through w ith the first big drops and wind hitting right as we rolled my plane into a k indly offered hangar. > > Decided to be safe and stay the night as the Ohio River Valley looked like crap. Some airport folks took me in and made me a homestyle farmhouse meal after which I slept in the lounge. > > Wheels up at 7:00am with a 16kt tailwind and made it home through another l ow ceiling area, but again, I knew I could turn around AND I knew it was goo d on the other side because Marci was texting me photos, so all went well. A nother big crosswind at my asphalt home field to contend with and we were ho me. > > Brodhead 2014 was great. The WX was PRETTY decent with good flying evenin gs and mornings. It got warm and buggy, but no big thunderstorms this year a nd as observed, the turnout was surprisingly good. I think I counted 14 or 1 5 Piets. Jill did make it down from Canada with her passenger husband and w as a joy to meet. > > I=99m sure I=99ll leave someone out so, please forgive me but i n attendance was: > > Bach=99s Piet > Dan H > Greg > Can=99t remember their name but the white and green one > Bob=99s blue with the yellow nose > =9CTools=9D Danford=99s blue and yellow flew almost cons tantly > RE-PIET > Larry =9Ccurmudgeon=9D Williams on a barnstorming tour of the M idwest > Jill from the little country north of us > A corvair powered =9Clast original=9D clone, maybe the oldest =9Cnon-Bernard=9D Piet around > The Last Original made an appearance or two. > Bob=99s new beautiful Orange and Blue masterpiece > The Rudolf piet > I saw the Knight Ford-powered red and silver one fly twice, but it didn =99t dain to park with the riff-raff > The Brodhead based red Scout made some flights and actually graced the Pie tenpol area for a while. > > > Like I said, I=99m sure I=99m missing someone=99s. We s ure missed some regulars, but it was awesome to see so many, and some new on es! > > I wish the Brodhead-based PIets would come out and play more so we could a ll enjoy them, but they seem happier staying in their homes > > As always, it was a great time and I=99m already looking forward to B rodhead 2015 > > Douwe > > Ps. Did you guys see the Oshkosh =9Ctwister=9D images? Thank God they didn=99t touch down! One can only imagine > > Keep on building, it=99s worth it. > > Pss. After sensing for the last year or two a salient shift in the tone o f our little group here, and reading some things upon my return, I am going t o put together some informal rules and suggestions that might help us regain the kinder/gentler tone this list once had. I=99m going to wait unti l everyone is home and settled and I have time to put my thoughts down, then I=99ll submit it for suggestions and then each time things get too se rious/silly/ or profane. We can instantly refer to these.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2014 From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com Hi Douwe Glad you had a safe trip. These pietenpols are all about doing things th e old way. That is only one of the many attributes of this design. I too have noticed the sometimes disrespect of time proven members and ai rcraft of this group. Discussions mentioning "loyalty to the wrong guy"and s uggesting one would"fudge" W&B data have no place here. Some rules of condu ct are definitely in order. I've enjoyed being a member of this group. There is much to learn and m uch to be taught(even by arrogant,self promoting,self proclaimed experts). A pparently, we need rules of conduct to disseminate this information so as no t to disrespect one another. Too bad, really. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:54 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote: > > > HELLO GOOD PEOPLE! > > Well, RE-PIET=99s wheels touched down at her home base at 8:30am thi s morning after a rather stressful trip home. The WX all the way down was e ver-changing and apparently must have been hard to forecast because the brie fing I got seemed to have NO basis in reality and every other forecast I saw disagreed with eachother. Dan Helsper was an hour ahead of me and kindly c alled me with real-time WX each time he landed which was really invaluable f or a fairly inexperienced cross-country pilot. > > Illinois was pretty good, but windy as the day went on. I got down to Kan akakee (=9Cno gas sir, a Stearman just bought us out=9D thank Go d for my big wing tank) before I tried for Kokomo, Indiana. WX said Kokomo w as okay, but with a big crosswind. However as I went the puffy clouds grew c loser and closer and finally became a solid ceiling which gradually descende d as I got close. I knew I could turn around and get out of it so I pressed on and felt great relief when I saw the beautiful grass field below me. Sw ooped in landed fighting a really bad crosswind, but it was fine. WX then g ot really nice for a couple of hours, then a big squall line rolled through w ith the first big drops and wind hitting right as we rolled my plane into a k indly offered hangar. > > Decided to be safe and stay the night as the Ohio River Valley looked like crap. Some airport folks took me in and made me a homestyle farmhouse meal after which I slept in the lounge. > > Wheels up at 7:00am with a 16kt tailwind and made it home through another l ow ceiling area, but again, I knew I could turn around AND I knew it was goo d on the other side because Marci was texting me photos, so all went well. A nother big crosswind at my asphalt home field to contend with and we were ho me. > > Brodhead 2014 was great. The WX was PRETTY decent with good flying evenin gs and mornings. It got warm and buggy, but no big thunderstorms this year a nd as observed, the turnout was surprisingly good. I think I counted 14 or 1 5 Piets. Jill did make it down from Canada with her passenger husband and w as a joy to meet. > > I=99m sure I=99ll leave someone out so, please forgive me but i n attendance was: > > Bach=99s Piet > Dan H > Greg > Can=99t remember their name but the white and green one > Bob=99s blue with the yellow nose > =9CTools=9D Danford=99s blue and yellow flew almost cons tantly > RE-PIET > Larry =9Ccurmudgeon=9D Williams on a barnstorming tour of the M idwest > Jill from the little country north of us > A corvair powered =9Clast original=9D clone, maybe the oldest =9Cnon-Bernard=9D Piet around > The Last Original made an appearance or two. > Bob=99s new beautiful Orange and Blue masterpiece > The Rudolf piet > I saw the Knight Ford-powered red and silver one fly twice, but it didn =99t dain to park with the riff-raff > The Brodhead based red Scout made some flights and actually graced the Pie tenpol area for a while. > > > Like I said, I=99m sure I=99m missing someone=99s. We s ure missed some regulars, but it was awesome to see so many, and some new on es! > > I wish the Brodhead-based PIets would come out and play more so we could a ll enjoy them, but they seem happier staying in their homes > > As always, it was a great time and I=99m already looking forward to B rodhead 2015 > > Douwe > > Ps. Did you guys see the Oshkosh =9Ctwister=9D images? Thank God they didn=99t touch down! One can only imagine > > Keep on building, it=99s worth it. > > Pss. After sensing for the last year or two a salient shift in the tone o f our little group here, and reading some things upon my return, I am going t o put together some informal rules and suggestions that might help us regain the kinder/gentler tone this list once had. I=99m going to wait unti l everyone is home and settled and I have time to put my thoughts down, then I=99ll submit it for suggestions and then each time things get too se rious/silly/ or profane. We can instantly refer to these.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2014 From: Steven Dortch You said "After sensing for the last year or two a salient shift in the tone of our little group here, and reading some things upon my return, I am going to put together some informal rules and suggestions that might help us regain the kinder/gentler tone this list once had. I=99m going to wait until everyone is home and settled and I have time to put my thoughts down, then I=99ll submit it for suggestions and then each time things get t oo serious/silly/ or profane. We can instantly refer to these." Come on Douwe, A little contentiousness is good for the soul. Just joking, I agree, these are two good guys with something to offer, but both have gotten mad and just can't let it go. We as a list need to get over this and keep moving. -- Blue Skies, Steve D. On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > I can hear it now...to the good people of Kokomo, "There I was, over the > Herken Woods...." > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:54 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" < > douweblumberg@earthlink.net> wrote: > > > HELLO GOOD PEOPLE! > > > Well, RE-PIET=99s wheels touched down at her home base at 8:30am th is > morning after a rather stressful trip home. The WX all the way down was > ever-changing and apparently must have been hard to forecast because the > briefing I got seemed to have NO basis in reality and every other forecas t > I saw disagreed with eachother. Dan Helsper was an hour ahead of me and > kindly called me with real-time WX each time he landed which was really > invaluable for a fairly inexperienced cross-country pilot. > > > Illinois was pretty good, but windy as the day went on. I got down to > Kanakakee (=9Cno gas sir, a Stearman just bought us out=9D th ank God for my big > wing tank) before I tried for Kokomo, Indiana. WX said Kokomo was okay, > but with a big crosswind. However as I went the puffy clouds grew closer > and closer and finally became a solid ceiling which gradually descended a s > I got close. I knew I could turn around and get out of it so I pressed o n > and felt great relief when I saw the beautiful grass field below me. > Swooped in landed fighting a really bad crosswind, but it was fine. WX > then got really nice for a couple of hours, then a big squall line rolled > through with the first big drops and wind hitting right as we rolled my > plane into a kindly offered hangar. > > > Decided to be safe and stay the night as the Ohio River Valley looked lik e > crap. Some airport folks took me in and made me a homestyle farmhouse me al > after which I slept in the lounge. > > > Wheels up at 7:00am with a 16kt tailwind and made it home through another > low ceiling area, but again, I knew I could turn around AND I knew it was > good on the other side because Marci was texting me photos, so all went > well. Another big crosswind at my asphalt home field to contend with and > we were home. > > > Brodhead 2014 was great. The WX was PRETTY decent with good flying > evenings and mornings. It got warm and buggy, but no big thunderstorms > this year and as observed, the turnout was surprisingly good. I think I > counted 14 or 15 Piets. Jill did make it down from Canada with her > passenger husband and was a joy to meet. > > > I=99m sure I=99ll leave someone out so, please forgive me but in attendance > was: > > > Bach=99s Piet > > Dan H > > Greg > > Can=99t remember their name but the white and green one > > Bob=99s blue with the yellow nose > > =9CTools=9D Danford=99s blue and yellow flew almost con stantly > > RE-PIET > > Larry =9Ccurmudgeon=9D Williams on a barnstorming tour of the Midwest > > Jill from the little country north of us > > A corvair powered =9Clast original=9D clone, maybe the oldest =9Cnon-Bernard=9D > Piet around > > The Last Original made an appearance or two. > > Bob=99s new beautiful Orange and Blue masterpiece > > The Rudolf piet > > I saw the Knight Ford-powered red and silver one fly twice, but it didn =99t > dain to park with the riff-raff > > The Brodhead based red Scout made some flights and actually graced the > Pietenpol area for a while. > > > Like I said, I=99m sure I=99m missing someone=99s. We sure missed some > regulars, but it was awesome to see so many, and some new ones! > > > I wish the Brodhead-based PIets would come out and play more so we could > all enjoy them, but they seem happier staying in their homes > > > As always, it was a great time and I=99m already looking forward to Brodhead > 2015 > > > Douwe > > > Ps. Did you guys see the Oshkosh =9Ctwister=9D images? Than k God they didn=99t > touch down! One can only imagine > > > Keep on building, it=99s worth it. > > > Pss. After sensing for the last year or two a salient shift in the tone > of our little group here, and reading some things upon my return, I am > going to put together some informal rules and suggestions that might help > us regain the kinder/gentler tone this list once had. I=99m going to wait > until everyone is home and settled and I have time to put my thoughts dow n, > then I=99ll submit it for suggestions and then each time things get too > serious/silly/ or profane. We can instantly refer to these.. > > > * > > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > npol-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > //forums.matronics.com > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D > > * > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:04 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: leading edge idea for Piet wing and Westcoast Piet site That must be where dad got the idea, he used handrail as well=0A=0AShad =0A =0A=0AOn Monday, July 28, 2014 3:43 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A =0AEarl Brow n mentioned my leading edge idea that I used on my Piet wings and here =99s a sketch of that idea plus an idea for your trailing =0Aedges (that I also used and found it to work well over the past 16 years)=C2- =0A =C2- =0AFor more chicken-scratch drawings of mine=C2- (fashioned after my hero Tony Bingelis) see Chris Tracy=99s incredibly great Wescoast Piet web site. =0A=C2- =0AMike C. =0A=C2- =0A=C2- =0Ahttp://westcoas tpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/mike_cuy_3.htm ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:04 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: photo of Dan Helsper flying his Piet From: "taildrags" I really like those flat-panel faceted windscreens. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427483#427483 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:01 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment From: "Braniff1966" this is really wierd shit ... u guys need to spend more time drinking and hanging out in dark tittie bars... dont you know old piety did all this for us??? DONT CHANGE ANYTHING.. ALL YOU WILL DO IS FUCKUP THE PLANE..THIS DUDES FIRST SENTENCE SAYS IT ALL.. MY CALCULATIONS ARE INCORRECT.....DONT NEED TO READ PAST THAT.... jim hyde Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427485#427485 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:39 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Michael Cuy's Weight & Balance---please see attachment From: "Bill Church" Wow. Jim Hyde, stick a sock in it. 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