---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/01/14: 62 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:20 AM - Spar analysis (Boatright, Jeffrey) 2. 03:30 AM - Re: spar strength (jarheadpilot82) 3. 03:55 AM - Re: Re: spar strength (danhelsper@aol.com) 4. 04:08 AM - Re: Re: gross weight----it is all relative (danhelsper@aol.com) 5. 04:19 AM - Re: NX992WD Initial W.& B. (Michael Perez) 6. 04:21 AM - Re: Spar analysis (Michael Perez) 7. 05:10 AM - Re: Spar analysis (gsnewsome) 8. 05:26 AM - Re: gross weight----it is all relative (tools) 9. 05:53 AM - Re: Builder Introduction (bdewenter) 10. 05:55 AM - BBC vid reminds me of Larry Wms Piet paint (Boatright, Jeffrey) 11. 05:55 AM - Build Milestones! (Jim Markle) 12. 06:07 AM - Re: Build Milestones! (Ken Bickers) 13. 06:18 AM - Re: Build Milestones! (Ryan Mueller) 14. 06:20 AM - Re: gross weight----it is all relative (jarheadpilot82) 15. 06:27 AM - wing loads (Douwe Blumberg) 16. 06:31 AM - Jim Markle's progress! (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 17. 06:32 AM - Re: Builder Introduction (jarheadpilot82) 18. 06:33 AM - Re: Build Milestones! (Gary Boothe) 19. 06:37 AM - Re: Jim Markle's progress! (Gary Boothe) 20. 06:42 AM - Re: Build Milestones! (AircamperN11MS) 21. 06:45 AM - Re: Spar analysis (pjb) 22. 06:50 AM - Re: Build Milestones! (echobravo4) 23. 07:01 AM - Re: Build Milestones! (Greg Bacon) 24. 07:57 AM - Re: Build Milestones! (aerocarjake) 25. 08:02 AM - Re: wing loads (Doug) 26. 08:05 AM - Quick Air Venture update (tools) 27. 08:28 AM - Re: Build Milestones! (Michael Perez) 28. 08:33 AM - Re: Build Milestones! (Michael Perez) 29. 08:52 AM - Re: Build Milestones! (Jack) 30. 08:55 AM - take a short flight in NX48MC (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 31. 09:36 AM - Re: take a short flight in NX48MC (Gerry Holland) 32. 09:52 AM - Re: take a short flight in NX48MC (Boatright, Jeffrey) 33. 10:23 AM - Re: take a short flight in NX48MC (Ryan Mueller) 34. 10:50 AM - Re: take a short flight in NX48MC (Ray Krause) 35. 11:22 AM - Re: take a short flight in NX48MC (AircamperN11MS) 36. 12:31 PM - Re: Re: take a short flight in NX48MC (Michael Conkling) 37. 12:56 PM - take a short flight in NX48MC----how was the landing? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 38. 01:04 PM - Re: Build Milestones! (aviken) 39. 01:08 PM - Re: take a short flight in NX48MC----how was the landing? (Ken Bickers) 40. 01:11 PM - Re: take a short flight in NX48MC----how was the landing? (Gerry Holland) 41. 01:18 PM - Re: take a short flight in NX48MC (Gary Boothe) 42. 01:20 PM - Re: wing loads (Gary Boothe) 43. 01:29 PM - Re: wing loads (Ryan Mueller) 44. 01:30 PM - Re: take a short flight in NX48MC (glenschweizer@yahoo.com) 45. 01:32 PM - side note about smoke and smoke oil for Pietenpols (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 46. 01:46 PM - Re: side note about smoke and smoke oil for Pietenpols (Gary Boothe) 47. 01:50 PM - Re: wing loads (Gene Rambo) 48. 01:58 PM - Re: take a short flight in NX48MC (Greg Bacon) 49. 02:07 PM - Re: wing loads (Gary Boothe) 50. 02:27 PM - Re: Re: take a short flight in NX48MC (Doug) 51. 04:12 PM - Distance LE to front spar (Pocono John) 52. 05:41 PM - Re: Distance LE to front spar (jarheadpilot82) 53. 06:15 PM - Re: Distance LE to front spar (Pocono John) 54. 07:13 PM - Re: Distance LE to front spar (Bill Church) 55. 07:24 PM - Re: which holds more oil? (piperj3cubflyer) 56. 08:48 PM - Re: take a short flight in NX48MC (Clif Dawson) 57. 08:53 PM - Re: take a short flight in NX48MC (Gary Boothe) 58. 09:05 PM - Re: wing loads (jarheadpilot82) 59. 09:06 PM - Re: wing loads (Mike McGowan) 60. 10:22 PM - A Pietenpol Cousin (Gerry Holland) 61. 11:01 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 62. 11:06 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:20:13 AM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spar analysis Hi Oscar, I am interested in the spar analysis thread and I encourage you to bring it back onto the list. It would be an odd thing if a list about an experimental airplane design discouraged discussion about wing spars. Jeff Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Sent from an iPad with a spelling problem ________________________________ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength From: "jarheadpilot82" Mr. Hyde, The same reason that guys like to do math and tweak an 80 year old design and talk about it is the same reason that guys soup up their engines on old cars, and the same reason guys pimp their rides and the same reason guys try and tweak the last little bit of performance out of their airplane at the Reno air races. Because, to them, it is FUN. There is this thing on your keyboard called a delete key. If you don't like what Oscar or anyone else writes about any area of building on this website, then simply use it, and you will never have to worry about that discussion again. If you don't like it, then just don't read it, but stop commenting on something of which they have interest, but you don't. That is why I have about decided to take my own advice and do that with your posts. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427688#427688 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength From: danhelsper@aol.com Man am I glad you are back on here Gene. I need the la ughs!! HA!=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0ALoensloe Airfield,=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Gene Rambo =0AT o: pietenpol-list =0ASent: Thu, Jul 31, 2014 6:32 pm=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: spar strength=0A=0A .com>=0A=0AAaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!=0A=0AGene=0A=0A On Jul 31, 2014, at 6:57 PM, "taildrags" =0A> =0A> Jim B.-=0A> =0A> The important ch aracteristic of a beam's ability to resist bending is the =0A section modulus. For a rectangular beam, the section modulus varies as the =0A*square* of the height of the beam. If you double the height of a beam, you =0Adon't just double its section modulus, you make it four times greater. The Air =0ACamper main spar is 4-3/4" tall, but the Piper Cub main spar is 6-1/4" tall. =0AFrom this, you can see that the Cub spar can be less thick than the 1" Air =0ACamper spar but still have comparable strength in bending.=0A> =0A> I don't know what the Champ spar dimensions are, but my gue ss is that they are =0Aalso taller than those of the Air Camper.=0A> =0A> --------=0A> Oscar Zuniga=0A> Medford, OR=0A> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"=0A> A75 power=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A > =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matro nics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427656#427656=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =========================== =========================== =========================== -Matt Dra =========================== =========0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: gross weight----it is all relative From: danhelsper@aol.com All this talk about setting the Gross weight limit.......it is a mute point once you finish your airplane and start to fly. The number is meaningless. The only important number I consider is "how much the passenger weighs, and how hot of a day is it? And maybe how much fuel do I have? When s omebody walks up to you at Brodhead and asks for a ride, I don't break out the slide rule for calculations. It is j ust an eyeball estimate, mostly based on how chunky the pote ntial passenger looks, and how much svinkter it took to get the previous passenger into the air.=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0ALoensloe Airfield=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: larha rris2 Harris =0ATo: pietenpol-list =0ASent: Thu, Jul 31, 2014 6:34 pm=0ASubject: RE: P ietenpol-List: Re: gross weight----it is all relative=0A=0A=0A=0AMik e C., I greatly value your opinions as one who has built and been flying a Piet for many years. And this issue is no exception. I appreciate that I am likely to run out of performance margin before I run out of structural margin. Yet I have a need to know exactly what that structural margin really is.=0A =0AMy plans say to use a 1080 lb gross weigh t limit. Yet others say I can add 200 - 300 lb more 'n o problem.' 'We have been doing it for years.' On a nic e smooth day, for a few sightseeing circuits around the patt ern, this may be no problem.=0A =0AWhen completed and flying, my plane will be based at the western edge of the Smoky Mountains. Not unusual here to have mechanical turbulence near the mountains. While I won't deliberately fly into known 'heav y' air, I need to do the arithmetic to know what my marg ins really are if I run up my max gross weight.=0A =0AI appreciate all you do for this group.=0A =0ALorenzo=0A=0A =0A=0A =========================== = - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -=0A =========================== =========================== ===========================0A =========================== ============0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:46 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: NX992WD Initial W.& B. Thanks for table and your time Ryan.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, sw itch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AWorking W.& B. Numbers ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:59 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar analysis I agree with Jeff, Oscar. At least this subject is Pietenpol related.=0A- =0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero =0AWorking W.& B. Numbers ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spar analysis From: "gsnewsome" Agree. Those that are not interested can skip over the thread. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427695#427695 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:58 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gross weight----it is all relative From: "tools" Actually, the number does matter... sort of. Should you be involved in an incident, involving the FAA and an investigation, and they find you are above the weight rating selected for your plane, you're gonna get dinged. What's the consequence of the "ding", who knows? May not matter to you at all. Probably would matter to me as I'm a professional pilot. In my thinking, one would be better to select a higher than average limit, so you can get the most out of your plane legally. THEN you can apply good judgment based on specific conditions. I realize this applies more to Mike's perspective, than Terry's, it's just that it wasn't mentioned at all (as far as I can tell, don't get all the posts) and thought I'd throw it out there. At the EAA we have a 1927 Swallow. The weight rating given to that plane means we can only take a 180lb or less passenger in it (now that it has a bigger heavier motor, tail wheel, seat belts, radio... etc). The plane is PERFECTLY capable of a LOT more, but since it's in commercial operation, we can't afford to take chances, and therefore really have a useless plane. The paperwork to get that rating changed, is WAAAY too hard. Of course, to apply this to Terry's perspective, it's easy. Load the plane down until failure, and use the appropriate percentage of that! Then build a new one EXACTLY like it. As you can see, the number really doesn't mean anything unless that is done. The 1080 lb number is probably reasonable though. Food for thought. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427696#427696 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:22 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Builder Introduction From: "bdewenter" I thought the forum could use a little levity. I hope I was successful. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427699#427699 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:07 AM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Pietenpol-List: BBC vid reminds me of Larry Wms Piet paint UGFpbnRpbmcgYnkgaGFuZDoNCg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5iYmMuY29tL25ld3MvbWFnYXppbmUtMjMz MTM3NjINCg0KTm93IGdvIG92ZXIgdG8gTGFycnkgV2lsbGlhbXMgcGFnZSBhdCBXZXN0IENvYXN0 IFBpZXQ6DQoNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cud2VzdGNvYXN0cGlldC5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL0xhcnJ5JTIwV2ls bGlhbXMvcGljdHVyZXMuaHRtDQoNCg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f Xw0KDQpUaGlzIGUtbWFpbCBtZXNzYWdlIChpbmNsdWRpbmcgYW55IGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzKSBpcyBm b3IgdGhlIHNvbGUgdXNlIG9mDQp0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50KHMpIGFuZCBtYXkgY29u dGFpbiBjb25maWRlbnRpYWwgYW5kIHByaXZpbGVnZWQNCmluZm9ybWF0aW9uLiBJZiB0aGUgcmVh ZGVyIG9mIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBpcyBub3QgdGhlIGludGVuZGVkDQpyZWNpcGllbnQsIHlvdSBh cmUgaGVyZWJ5IG5vdGlmaWVkIHRoYXQgYW55IGRpc3NlbWluYXRpb24sIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbg0K b3IgY29weWluZyBvZiB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgKGluY2x1ZGluZyBhbnkgYXR0YWNobWVudHMpIGlz IHN0cmljdGx5DQpwcm9oaWJpdGVkLg0KDQpJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSByZWNlaXZlZCB0aGlzIG1lc3Nh Z2UgaW4gZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBjb250YWN0DQp0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGJ5IHJlcGx5IGUtbWFpbCBt ZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBkZXN0cm95IGFsbCBjb3BpZXMgb2YgdGhlDQpvcmlnaW5hbCBtZXNzYWdlIChp bmNsdWRpbmcgYXR0YWNobWVudHMpLg0K ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:07 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Milestones! Well, I know this isn't much for most of you builders and your great progress....but I just have to share some recent progress on the "People's Piet". A couple items I've worked, re worked and lost sleep over for the last few years JUST fell into place! I love this building process! Disclaimer: The attached pictures (I reduced their size to hopefully minimize download time) show a LOT of ugly, unvarnished holes, blemishes, etc. Yes, I'll clean it all up! So don't give me a hard time about it! :-) Throttle linkage. I had a solid round 1/8" rod in there that was going to be a pain to terminate at the carb. And it was a bit heavy. And a pain to route. I found a flexible push pull cable in my "old stuff taken off a salvaged fuse" box and it fit perfectly! I've ended up redoing SO much of this damaged fuse I got from another builder that I probably should have just started off fresh and built it from the beginning myself! I've just about done that anyway. Oh well. Aileron. FINALLY get to move the controls and the ailerons, rudder and "flippers" MOVE!!! REALLY appreciate all the info in the archives about aileron/elevator/rudder travel! It's great to do a Matronics search and find quick answers to my dumb questions. Sure is nice having a REAL crimping tool to do the cables! Thanks Mike C for the loan....I just hope I don't forget where it came from!! just kidding. Seat belts. Another rework with...FINALLY...what appears to be a good solution! And this is another one I built a looooong time ago and improved several times only to "improve it" back to the way I originally put it in there. I was concerned about the rudder cable contacting the seat belt fittings so added the tubing....probably unnecessary. I won't bore everyone with more but there IS a lot more recent progress. This idea of going working on it every day, even if just for 15 minutes....WORKS! Amazing....(even though it has tuned into "hours" a few times...but that's ok!) So while everyone else has been barnstorming all over the place...the Markle "People's Piet" (in my shop ONLY because of a lot of VERY caring, generous people, thank you very much!) has recently seen MAJOR leaps forward in the build progress! Forgive me for the looooong message...sometimes the excitement is just too much! :-) Jim in Pryor ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Milestones! From: Ken Bickers Love it! Looking good, Jim. Ken On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:54 AM, Jim Markle wrote: > Well, I know this isn't much for most of you builders and your great > progress....but I just have to share some recent progress on the "People's > Piet". A couple items I've worked, re worked and lost sleep over for the > last few years JUST fell into place! I love this building process! > > Disclaimer: The attached pictures (I reduced their size to hopefully > minimize download time) show a LOT of ugly, unvarnished holes, blemishes, > etc. Yes, I'll clean it all up! So don't give me a hard time about it! > :-) > > Throttle linkage. I had a solid round 1/8" rod in there that was going to > be a pain to terminate at the carb. And it was a bit heavy. And a pain to > route. I found a flexible push pull cable in my "old stuff taken off a > salvaged fuse" box and it fit perfectly! I've ended up redoing SO much of > this damaged fuse I got from another builder that I probably should have > just started off fresh and built it from the beginning myself! I've just > about done that anyway. Oh well. > > Aileron. FINALLY get to move the controls and the ailerons, rudder and > "flippers" MOVE!!! REALLY appreciate all the info in the archives about > aileron/elevator/rudder travel! It's great to do a Matronics search and > find quick answers to my dumb questions. > > Sure is nice having a REAL crimping tool to do the cables! Thanks Mike C > for the loan....I just hope I don't forget where it came from!! just > kidding. > > Seat belts. Another rework with...FINALLY...what appears to be a good > solution! And this is another one I built a looooong time ago and improved > several times only to "improve it" back to the way I originally put it in > there. I was concerned about the rudder cable contacting the seat belt > fittings so added the tubing....probably unnecessary. > > I won't bore everyone with more but there IS a lot more recent progress. > This idea of going working on it every day, even if just for 15 > minutes....WORKS! Amazing....(even though it has tuned into "hours" a few > times...but that's ok!) > > So while everyone else has been barnstorming all over the place...the > Markle "People's Piet" (in my shop ONLY because of a lot of VERY caring, > generous people, thank you very much!) has recently seen MAJOR leaps > forward in the build progress! > > Forgive me for the looooong message...sometimes the excitement is just too > much! :-) > > Jim in Pryor > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Milestones! From: Ryan Mueller Congrats Jim, thanks for sharing! -Ryan do not archive On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 7:54 AM, Jim Markle wrote: > Well, I know this isn't much for most of you builders and your great > progress....but I just have to share some recent progress on the "People's > Piet". A couple items I've worked, re worked and lost sleep over for the > last few years JUST fell into place! I love this building process! > > Disclaimer: The attached pictures (I reduced their size to hopefully > minimize download time) show a LOT of ugly, unvarnished holes, blemishes, > etc. Yes, I'll clean it all up! So don't give me a hard time about it! > :-) > > Throttle linkage. I had a solid round 1/8" rod in there that was going to > be a pain to terminate at the carb. And it was a bit heavy. And a pain to > route. I found a flexible push pull cable in my "old stuff taken off a > salvaged fuse" box and it fit perfectly! I've ended up redoing SO much of > this damaged fuse I got from another builder that I probably should have > just started off fresh and built it from the beginning myself! I've just > about done that anyway. Oh well. > > Aileron. FINALLY get to move the controls and the ailerons, rudder and > "flippers" MOVE!!! REALLY appreciate all the info in the archives about > aileron/elevator/rudder travel! It's great to do a Matronics search and > find quick answers to my dumb questions. > > Sure is nice having a REAL crimping tool to do the cables! Thanks Mike C > for the loan....I just hope I don't forget where it came from!! just > kidding. > > Seat belts. Another rework with...FINALLY...what appears to be a good > solution! And this is another one I built a looooong time ago and improved > several times only to "improve it" back to the way I originally put it in > there. I was concerned about the rudder cable contacting the seat belt > fittings so added the tubing....probably unnecessary. > > I won't bore everyone with more but there IS a lot more recent progress. > This idea of going working on it every day, even if just for 15 > minutes....WORKS! Amazing....(even though it has tuned into "hours" a few > times...but that's ok!) > > So while everyone else has been barnstorming all over the place...the > Markle "People's Piet" (in my shop ONLY because of a lot of VERY caring, > generous people, thank you very much!) has recently seen MAJOR leaps > forward in the build progress! > > Forgive me for the looooong message...sometimes the excitement is just too > much! :-) > > Jim in Pryor > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:05 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: gross weight----it is all relative From: "jarheadpilot82" Dan, Actually it is not a moot point at all. When you got your aircraft inspected by the FAA, you had to indicate a maximum gross weight. Hopefully you used something more that a couple of bathroom scales to determine your aircrafts empty weight. You are correct that you should not have to break out a slide rule every time you decide to go flying. That is because you broke out the slide rule early on, and did precise computations to determine your C.G. range. Now you can decide based upon those computations that you can only take an 80 pound kid in the front seat before you are flying out of the proper C.G. range, or you are able to take a 250 pound fat body with no problem. Then you can take a look at your density altitude and runway length to determine whether or not it is safe to take the fat body flying, or the conditions are such that it is not even wise to take the 80 pound kid flying. If you are out west you may even find that you cant carry yourself and a full bag of gas. But you know all of this because you did do the slide rule work early on. This is not meant to insult your intelligence, Dan. I am sure that you already know this and do it on a regular basis. But we do have some newly-minted pilots on this forum as well as guys that are still taking lessons. They need to know this and develop good habits early on in managing risk. I can assure you that if you dont ask your self these questions before you fly, the FAA will ask you these questions if you have an incident. What was your calculated takeoff weight? What was the density altitude and runway length? Were you in the proper C.G. range when you took off? Its ask now, or possibly be asked later. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427705#427705 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:08 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing loads Please allow me to interject. I want to go on record as saying that I personally would find a definitive stress analysis of the Pietenpol wing fascinating and informative. What's the big deal if some guys want to run some numbers?? If the topic doesn't interest you, most keyboards have a "delete" button. End of problem. Oscar has been flying "Scout" for over a decade and knows it is safe. He is not questioning the airworthiness of an "80-year-old" design, his curiosity has simply been peeked by some questions which he'd like to be able to answer authoritatively. This thread is directly Pietenpol related and very interesting. I don't seem to remember Jack P catching any flack a few years back when he did something similar. Does it not seem highly inappropriate that Oscar feels he needs to go "off list" to provide a Pietenpol wing analysis on a Pietenpol discussion forum??? What gives everybody?? $.02 Douwe Ps. Oscar, would you please include me in your "off list" group? I am fascinated to hear what you come up with. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:24 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's progress! What a GREAT report to the list Jim and for every step of progress forward you make like you have recently it gives you motivation to get the next th ing done on your to-do list. Fantastic motivation you've given yourself and other s who are reading of your progress who need to get back out in the shop and knock a few things off of their to-do list this weekend! Mike C. [cid:image001.jpg@01CFAD6B.51E3C020] Jim Markle and his brother Josh at Medina Airport, Medina, Ohio a couple of years ago ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:40 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Builder Introduction From: "jarheadpilot82" Bob, Nicely done! Will you be carrying fat weasel ale onboard? -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427709#427709 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fat_weasel_ale_302.jpg ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:39 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Build Milestones! You're not far from fabric and paint...every little step matters all the more. I'm just glad to see that you're moving along... Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 5:54 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Milestones! Well, I know this isn't much for most of you builders and your great progress....but I just have to share some recent progress on the "People's Piet". A couple items I've worked, re worked and lost sleep over for the last few years JUST fell into place! I love this building process! Disclaimer: The attached pictures (I reduced their size to hopefully minimize download time) show a LOT of ugly, unvarnished holes, blemishes, etc. Yes, I'll clean it all up! So don't give me a hard time about it! :-) Throttle linkage. I had a solid round 1/8" rod in there that was going to be a pain to terminate at the carb. And it was a bit heavy. And a pain to route. I found a flexible push pull cable in my "old stuff taken off a salvaged fuse" box and it fit perfectly! I've ended up redoing SO much of this damaged fuse I got from another builder that I probably should have just started off fresh and built it from the beginning myself! I've just about done that anyway. Oh well. Aileron. FINALLY get to move the controls and the ailerons, rudder and "flippers" MOVE!!! REALLY appreciate all the info in the archives about aileron/elevator/rudder travel! It's great to do a Matronics search and find quick answers to my dumb questions. Sure is nice having a REAL crimping tool to do the cables! Thanks Mike C for the loan....I just hope I don't forget where it came from!! just kidding. Seat belts. Another rework with...FINALLY...what appears to be a good solution! And this is another one I built a looooong time ago and improved several times only to "improve it" back to the way I originally put it in there. I was concerned about the rudder cable contacting the seat belt fittings so added the tubing....probably unnecessary. I won't bore everyone with more but there IS a lot more recent progress. This idea of going working on it every day, even if just for 15 minutes....WORKS! Amazing....(even though it has tuned into "hours" a few times...but that's ok!) So while everyone else has been barnstorming all over the place...the Markle "People's Piet" (in my shop ONLY because of a lot of VERY caring, generous people, thank you very much!) has recently seen MAJOR leaps forward in the build progress! Forgive me for the looooong message...sometimes the excitement is just too much! :-) Jim in Pryor ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:01 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's progress! Jim is a serial DNA depositor. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 6:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's progress! What a GREAT report to the list Jim and for every step of progress forward you make like you have recently it gives you motivation to get the next thing done on your to-do list. Fantastic motivation you've given yourself and others who are reading of your progress who need to get back out in the shop and knock a few things off of their to-do list this weekend! Mike C. Jim Markle and his brother Josh at Medina Airport, Medina, Ohio a couple of years ago ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Build Milestones! From: "AircamperN11MS" Jim, Don't you just love it when a plan (plane in your case) comes together? Nice work. Can't wait to see the rest of the plane. Keep up the good work, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427713#427713 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spar analysis From: "pjb" I agree with Jeff. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427714#427714 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:58 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Build Milestones! From: "echobravo4" Congratulations Jim! It looks great! -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427715#427715 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Milestones! From: Greg Bacon Nice work Jim. Outstanding build quality. Keep up the progress.! On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 7:54 AM, Jim Markle wrote: > Well, I know this isn't much for most of you builders and your great > progress....but I just have to share some recent progress on the "People's > Piet". A couple items I've worked, re worked and lost sleep over for the > last few years JUST fell into place! I love this building process! > > Disclaimer: The attached pictures (I reduced their size to hopefully > minimize download time) show a LOT of ugly, unvarnished holes, blemishes, > etc. Yes, I'll clean it all up! So don't give me a hard time about it! > :-) > > Throttle linkage. I had a solid round 1/8" rod in there that was going to > be a pain to terminate at the carb. And it was a bit heavy. And a pain to > route. I found a flexible push pull cable in my "old stuff taken off a > salvaged fuse" box and it fit perfectly! I've ended up redoing SO much of > this damaged fuse I got from another builder that I probably should have > just started off fresh and built it from the beginning myself! I've just > about done that anyway. Oh well. > > Aileron. FINALLY get to move the controls and the ailerons, rudder and > "flippers" MOVE!!! REALLY appreciate all the info in the archives about > aileron/elevator/rudder travel! It's great to do a Matronics search and > find quick answers to my dumb questions. > > Sure is nice having a REAL crimping tool to do the cables! Thanks Mike C > for the loan....I just hope I don't forget where it came from!! just > kidding. > > Seat belts. Another rework with...FINALLY...what appears to be a good > solution! And this is another one I built a looooong time ago and improved > several times only to "improve it" back to the way I originally put it in > there. I was concerned about the rudder cable contacting the seat belt > fittings so added the tubing....probably unnecessary. > > I won't bore everyone with more but there IS a lot more recent progress. > This idea of going working on it every day, even if just for 15 > minutes....WORKS! Amazing....(even though it has tuned into "hours" a few > times...but that's ok!) > > So while everyone else has been barnstorming all over the place...the > Markle "People's Piet" (in my shop ONLY because of a lot of VERY caring, > generous people, thank you very much!) has recently seen MAJOR leaps > forward in the build progress! > > Forgive me for the looooong message...sometimes the excitement is just too > much! :-) > > Jim in Pryor > > -- Greg Bacon ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:51 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Build Milestones! From: "aerocarjake" Very nice.... helps inspire us all...!! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427723#427723 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:15 AM PST US From: Doug Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing loads PLease include me too Oscar. Doug Dever =0A In beautiful Stow Ohio From: douweblumberg@earthlink.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing loads Please allow me to interject=85 I want to go on record as saying that I per sonally would find a definitive stress analysis of the Pietenpol wing fasci nating and informative. What=92s the big deal if some guys want to run som e numbers?? If the topic doesn=92t interest you=2C most keyboards have a =93delete=94 button. End of problem=85 Oscar has been flying =93Scout=94 f or over a decade and knows it is safe. He is not questioning the airworthi ness of an =9380-year-old=94 design=2C his curiosity has simply been peeked by some questions which he=92d like to be able to answer authoritatively. This thread is directly Pietenpol related and very interesting. I don=92t seem to remember Jack P catching any flack a few years back when he did som ething similar. Does it not seem highly inappropriate that Oscar feels he needs to go =93off list=94 to provide a Pietenpol wing analysis on a Piete npol discussion forum??? What gives everybody?? $.02 Douwe Ps. Oscar=2C wo uld you please include me in your =93off list=94 group? I am fascinated to hear what you come up with.=0A =0A =0A =0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ============0A =0A ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Quick Air Venture update From: "tools" Hey folks, Been a good week so far. Have a minute with a puter, so thought I'd mention that the Hatz guys' "vintage homebuilts" area is pretty nice. Greg Cardinal put his plane there, sad it was the only one. I'm guilty as charged, I managed to weasel a hangar and have mine in there. My only defense is that I have not yet put together a tie down and weather kit... Greg, Bob and I all flew into the ultralight strip and that worked great. Now that I've done it, should we do it again, I do recommend actually riding with someone to see it first... or not going during a microburst! GREAT feeling to have gotten all the way to Osh though, especially via Brodhead. Jill from Canada flew the regular Ripon arrival and had no problems. We actually passed each other while taxiing to our respective places. There were jets, big twins, all sorts of stuff, it was nice to a see a friendly face in the crowd so to speak. Bob and Greg also took off from the ultralight strip, THAT is definitely a good way to go. They really seem open to helping us there, but going through Greg is probably the way to go. My first time here with a plane, as big and bad as the place is, everyone generally is VERY helpful. Many things can only be done, by just doing them. For example, to taxi from the ultralight strip, to way over where my hangar was, everyone said it can't be done, but go ahead and go that way and ask the next guy. As I progressed, it just worked out. Turns out, many people really only know their immediate area, which makes sense. It's WAY too big to know the ins and outs of it all. So what seemed impossible, was easy. Bob and Greg are safely home. Last I heard from Jill, she was half way to MN and doing well. I'll be heading back down when I can find another fly in to hit on the way through somewhere. I'm sure that'll be an adventure. Douwe, what's your sked? That's all for now, not sure if there's any more Piets or not, haven't seen any. Have run across lots of folks from Brodhead though. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427728#427728 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:05 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Milestones! Very nice to hear progress is being made, regardless of how small or insign ificant it might seem. I like hearing the reports and seeing the pictures. However, I need more intel on your overall status on the build, if you don' t mind sharing. Wings built? Tail? Engine selected? landing gear? I'm just not up to speed on how far along you are in the total arena that is the fin e art of building an experimental aircraft.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pi lot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AWorking W.& B. Numbers ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:39 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Milestones! Disregard my "wings done?" question Jim...I see the nice picture you just p osted and they look complete to me.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, swi tch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AWorking W.& B. Numbers ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Milestones! From: Jack Outstanding Jim! Glad you continued the build. Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > On Aug 1, 2014, at 7:54 AM, Jim Markle wrote: > > Well, I know this isn't much for most of you builders and your great progress....but I just have to share some recent progress on the "People's Piet". A couple items I've worked, re worked and lost sleep over for the last few years JUST fell into place! I love this building process! > > Disclaimer: The attached pictures (I reduced their size to hopefully minimize download time) show a LOT of ugly, unvarnished holes, blemishes, etc. Yes, I'll clean it all up! So don't give me a hard time about it! :-) > > Throttle linkage. I had a solid round 1/8" rod in there that was going to be a pain to terminate at the carb. And it was a bit heavy. And a pain to route. I found a flexible push pull cable in my "old stuff taken off a salvaged fuse" box and it fit perfectly! I've ended up redoing SO much of this damaged fuse I got from another builder that I probably should have just started off fresh and built it from the beginning myself! I've just about done that anyway. Oh well. > > Aileron. FINALLY get to move the controls and the ailerons, rudder and "flippers" MOVE!!! REALLY appreciate all the info in the archives about aileron/elevator/rudder travel! It's great to do a Matronics search and find quick answers to my dumb questions. > > Sure is nice having a REAL crimping tool to do the cables! Thanks Mike C for the loan....I just hope I don't forget where it came from!! just kidding. > > Seat belts. Another rework with...FINALLY...what appears to be a good solution! And this is another one I built a looooong time ago and improved several times only to "improve it" back to the way I originally put it in there. I was concerned about the rudder cable contacting the seat belt fittings so added the tubing....probably unnecessary. > > I won't bore everyone with more but there IS a lot more recent progress. This idea of going working on it every day, even if just for 15 minutes....WORKS! Amazing....(even though it has tuned into "hours" a few times...but that's ok!) > > So while everyone else has been barnstorming all over the place...the Markle "People's Piet" (in my shop ONLY because of a lot of VERY caring, generous people, thank you very much!) has recently seen MAJOR leaps forward in the build progress! > > Forgive me for the looooong message...sometimes the excitement is just too much! :-) > > Jim in Pryor > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:21 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC http://youtu.be/iiGZFPX4lv8 3:12 long. With missing Brodhead and all I had to get my 'fixes' by flying a few times this week from my home airport here southwest of Cleveland. Hope you enjoy! Mike C. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:27 AM PST US From: Gerry Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC Mike Hi! What video arrangement did you use? Regards Gerry ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:38 AM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC VmVyeSBuaWNlISBCdXQgZG9u4oCZdCBrZWVwIHVzIGluIHN1c3BlbnNlIOKAlCBob3cgZGlkIHRo ZSBsYW5kaW5nIGdvPyAgOykNCg0KLS0NCg0KSmVmZnJleSBILiBCb2F0cmlnaHQsIFBoRCwgRkFS Vk8NClByb2Zlc3NvciBvZiBPcGh0aGFsbW9sb2d5DQpFbW9yeSBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IFNjaG9vbCBv ZiBNZWRpY2luZQ0KDQpGcm9tOiA8Q3V5PiwgIkxMQ10iIDxtaWNoYWVsLmQuY3V5QG5hc2EuZ292 PG1haWx0bzptaWNoYWVsLmQuY3V5QG5hc2EuZ292Pj4NClJlcGx5LVRvOiAicGlldGVucG9sLWxp c3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4iIDxw aWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPG1haWx0bzpwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25p Y3MuY29tPj4NCkRhdGU6IEZyaWRheSwgQXVndXN0IDEsIDIwMTQgYXQgMTE6NTQgQU0NClRvOiAi cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9u aWNzLmNvbT4iIDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPG1haWx0bzpwaWV0ZW5wb2wt bGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPj4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiB0YWtlIGEgc2hv cnQgZmxpZ2h0IGluIE5YNDhNQw0KDQpodHRwOi8veW91dHUuYmUvaWlHWkZQWDRsdjgNCg0KMzox MiBsb25nLg0KDQpXaXRoIG1pc3NpbmcgQnJvZGhlYWQgYW5kIGFsbCBJIGhhZCB0byBnZXQgbXkg 4oCYZml4ZXPigJkgYnkgZmx5aW5nIGEgZmV3IHRpbWVzIHRoaXMgd2VlayBmcm9tIG15IGhvbWUg YWlycG9ydCBoZXJlDQpzb3V0aHdlc3Qgb2YgQ2xldmVsYW5kLiAgIEhvcGUgeW91IGVuam95IQ0K DQpNaWtlIEMuDQoNCg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQpUaGlz IGUtbWFpbCBtZXNzYWdlIChpbmNsdWRpbmcgYW55IGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzKSBpcyBmb3IgdGhlIHNv bGUgdXNlIG9mDQp0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50KHMpIGFuZCBtYXkgY29udGFpbiBjb25m aWRlbnRpYWwgYW5kIHByaXZpbGVnZWQNCmluZm9ybWF0aW9uLiBJZiB0aGUgcmVhZGVyIG9mIHRo aXMgbWVzc2FnZSBpcyBub3QgdGhlIGludGVuZGVkDQpyZWNpcGllbnQsIHlvdSBhcmUgaGVyZWJ5 IG5vdGlmaWVkIHRoYXQgYW55IGRpc3NlbWluYXRpb24sIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbg0Kb3IgY29weWlu ZyBvZiB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgKGluY2x1ZGluZyBhbnkgYXR0YWNobWVudHMpIGlzIHN0cmljdGx5 DQpwcm9oaWJpdGVkLg0KDQpJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSByZWNlaXZlZCB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgaW4gZXJy b3IsIHBsZWFzZSBjb250YWN0DQp0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGJ5IHJlcGx5IGUtbWFpbCBtZXNzYWdlIGFu ZCBkZXN0cm95IGFsbCBjb3BpZXMgb2YgdGhlDQpvcmlnaW5hbCBtZXNzYWdlIChpbmNsdWRpbmcg YXR0YWNobWVudHMpLg0K ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC From: Ryan Mueller Hmm....he survived to post the video.....so I'd say it went well enough... ;-) do not archive On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Boatright, Jeffrey wrote: > Very nice! But don=99t keep us in suspense =94 how did the landing go? ;) > > -- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO > Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > > From: , "LLC]" > Date: Friday, August 1, 2014 at 11:54 AM > To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" > Subject: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC > > http://youtu.be/iiGZFPX4lv8 > > > 3:12 long. > > > With missing Brodhead and all I had to get my =98fixes=99 by flying a few > times this week from my home airport here > > southwest of Cleveland. Hope you enjoy! > > > Mike C. > > > ------------------------------ > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:25 AM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:53 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: take a short flight in NX48MC From: "AircamperN11MS" How do we know that he even landed yet? He may have posted it from his I-PAD while still flying. Mike, correct me if I'm wrong here, I think you guys in that part of the country need the smoke system to see where you came from. There no mountains or even hills to determine which direction you are going or coming from. Just look for the smoke and you'll find the airport you left from. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427754#427754 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 12:31:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: take a short flight in NX48MC From: Michael Conkling Naw, you use "old school" navigation -- an old road map, circle at 500 ft to read the name on the water tower, and follow the section lines ( IFRrr - I fly roads, railroads, and rivers -- "don't need no stinken GPS" ;-) (another) Mike C. Pretty Prairie, KS On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 1:22 PM, AircamperN11MS wrote: > Scott.liefeld@lacity.org> > > How do we know that he even landed yet? He may have posted it from his > I-PAD while still flying. > > Mike, correct me if I'm wrong here, I think you guys in that part of the > country need the smoke system to see where you came from. There no > mountains or even hills to determine which direction you are going or > coming from. Just look for the smoke and you'll find the airport you left > from. > > -------- > Scott Liefeld > Flying N11MS since March 1972 > Steel Tube > C-85-12 > Wire Wheels > Brodhead in 1996 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427754#427754 > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:51 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC----how was the landing? Thankfully I had another uneventful landing and was able to walk away unass isted and she sits in the hangar awaiting the next time! And Gerry, I simply use a hand-held (using the camera strap) little Olymp us pocket camera in video mode and move it around by hand. And you're right Michael Conkling, most of my navigation is just by landmar ks but on cross countries I do take a little Garmin III gps. And Scott L., the best part about flying around Cleveland is that you can't get lost beca use of Lake Erie. If the lake gets bigger: going north. If the lake is to your right: Going West. If the lake is to your left: going east. Ca n't see the lake? You're going south. Mike C. [cid:image001.jpg@01CFADA0.E3D28130] [cid:image002.jpg@01CFADA0.E3D28130 ] http://youtu.be/iiGZFPX4lv8 3:12 long. With missing Brodhead and all I had to get my 'fixes' by flying a few times this week from my home airport here southwest of Cleveland. Hope you enjoy! Mike C. ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:00 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Build Milestones! From: "aviken" Hey Jim , You continue to inspire this Arkie to keep his nose to the sandpaper. It is my dream to meet you somewhere next year and fly wing to wing with you to Brodhead. I know you can make it, I just don't know if I can.. But that is my goal. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427763#427763 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC----how was the landing? From: Ken Bickers those circular blue lines on the surface probably help with navigation, too .. :) On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] wrote: > Thankfully I had another uneventful landing and was able to walk away > unassisted and she sits in the hangar awaiting the next > > time! > > > And Gerry, I simply use a hand-held (using the camera strap) little > Olympus pocket camera in video mode and move it around by hand. > > > And you=99re right Michael Conkling, most of my navigation is just by > landmarks but on cross countries I do take a little Garmin III gps. A nd > Scott L., > > the best part about flying around Cleveland is that you can=99t get lost > because of Lake Erie. If the lake gets bigger: going north. If the > lake is to > > your right: Going West. If the lake is to your left: going east. > Can=99t see the lake? You=99re going south. > > > Mike C. > > > http://youtu.be/iiGZFPX4lv8 > > > 3:12 long. > > > With missing Brodhead and all I had to get my =98fixes=99 by flying a few > times this week from my home airport here > > southwest of Cleveland. Hope you enjoy! > > > Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:30 PM PST US From: Gerry Holland Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC----how was the landing? Thanks Mike on Camera spec. Very good quality. Gerry ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:27 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC I want smoke! Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:55 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC http://youtu.be/iiGZFPX4lv8 3:12 long. With missing Brodhead and all I had to get my 'fixes' by flying a few times this week from my home airport here southwest of Cleveland. Hope you enjoy! Mike C. ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:47 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing loads I am reminded of the Zenith list, several years ago. When the 601XL had some wing problems, the list became very divided. A splinter group broke off, convinced that they needed to do the engineering for Zenith, and feelings got hurt. My suggestion is to keep the strut analysis issue on the Piet list. It'll run its course.and eventually the questions will be answered. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:02 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing loads PLease include me too Oscar. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio _____ From: douweblumberg@earthlink.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing loads Please allow me to interject. I want to go on record as saying that I personally would find a definitive stress analysis of the Pietenpol wing fascinating and informative. What's the big deal if some guys want to run some numbers?? If the topic doesn't interest you, most keyboards have a "delete" button. End of problem. Oscar has been flying "Scout" for over a decade and knows it is safe. He is not questioning the airworthiness of an "80-year-old" design, his curiosity has simply been peeked by some questions which he'd like to be able to answer authoritatively. This thread is directly Pietenpol related and very interesting. I don't seem to remember Jack P catching any flack a few years back when he did something similar. Does it not seem highly inappropriate that Oscar feels he needs to go "off list" to provide a Pietenpol wing analysis on a Pietenpol discussion forum??? What gives everybody?? $.02 Douwe Ps. Oscar, would you please include me in your "off list" group? I am fascinated to hear what you come up with. ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing loads From: Ryan Mueller And besides, it's fun watching the steam shoot out of Gene's ears.... -Ryan do not archive On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > I am reminded of the Zenith list, several years ago. When the 601XL had > some wing problems, the list became very divided. A splinter group broke > off, convinced that they needed to do the engineering for Zenith, and > feelings got hurt. My suggestion is to keep the strut analysis issue on t he > Piet list. It=99ll run its courseand eventually the questi ons will be > answered. > > > Gary Boothe > > NX308MB > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com Another smoke fluid: Try anti-freeze...amazing hang time even better in cool er weather. Use it straight from the radiator. Available free at most mech anic shops Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 1, 2014, at 1:16 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > > I want smoke! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Par tners, LLC] > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:55 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC > > http://youtu.be/iiGZFPX4lv8 > > 3:12 long. > > With missing Brodhead and all I had to get my =98fixes=99 by f lying a few times this week from my home airport here > southwest of Cleveland. Hope you enjoy! > > Mike C. > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:21 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: side note about smoke and smoke oil for Pietenpols Gary-smoke is just a blast to have. With your electrical system you cou ld probably use a salvage yard or new replacement windshield washer pump/reservoir setup. I don't know if the washer pumps have the k ind of pressure you need but I don't see why it wouldn't work as long as it could overcome the backpressure in the exhaust stack. You only need to inject into one exhaust stack too. As long as you inject in that first 1-2" the oil with smoke really well. I believe Chuck Gantzer used a windshield washer pump for his baby oil smok e system and it worked well but the baby oil didn't have as white a look as the mineral oil. I use the regular air show smoke oil so it does well but isn't cheap but th ankfully some distributors sell it in 5 gallon buckets. Not sure what th e trade name for the stuff is now since I haven't purchased any in a while but it u sed to be Texaco Canopus Oil #13, before that it was Corvis oil. Kyle Franklin posted this on his web page about the various smoke oils he a sks for when making an air show appearance. [cid:image001.png@01CFADA6.1E994010] ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:53 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: side note about smoke and smoke oil for Pietenpols Thanks, Mike! Since I have 'straight' pipes, any puking of oil will be on the side and the struts. I guess that's a price worth paying. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 1:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: side note about smoke and smoke oil for Pietenpols Gary-smoke is just a blast to have. With your electrical system you could probably use a salvage yard or new replacement windshield washer pump/reservoir setup. I don't know if the washer pumps have the kind of pressure you need but I don't see why it wouldn't work as long as it could overcome the backpressure in the exhaust stack. You only need to inject into one exhaust stack too. As long as you inject in that first 1-2" the oil with smoke really well. I believe Chuck Gantzer used a windshield washer pump for his baby oil smoke system and it worked well but the baby oil didn't have as white a look as the mineral oil. I use the regular air show smoke oil so it does well but isn't cheap but thankfully some distributors sell it in 5 gallon buckets. Not sure what the trade name for the stuff is now since I haven't purchased any in a while but it used to be Texaco Canopus Oil #13, before that it was Corvis oil. Kyle Franklin posted this on his web page about the various smoke oils he asks for when making an air show appearance. ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing loads From: Gene Rambo I'm amazed that no one seems to get the humor of my protests or the absurdit y of the exercise..... Gene On Aug 1, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > And besides, it's fun watching the steam shoot out of Gene's ears.... > > -Ryan > > do not archive > > > On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: >> I am reminded of the Zenith list, several years ago. When the 601XL had s ome wing problems, the list became very divided. A splinter group broke off, convinced that they needed to do the engineering for Zenith, and feelings g ot hurt. My suggestion is to keep the strut analysis issue on the Piet list. It=99ll run its courseand eventually the questions will be a nswered. >> >> >> >> Gary Boothe >> >> NX308MB >> > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC From: Greg Bacon Pretty cool. Thanks Mike! On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] wrote: > http://youtu.be/iiGZFPX4lv8 > > > 3:12 long. > > > With missing Brodhead and all I had to get my =98fixes=99 by flying a few > times this week from my home airport here > > southwest of Cleveland. Hope you enjoy! > > > Mike C. > > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > > -- Greg Bacon ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:05 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing loads https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klVhwlwHhY4 Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing loads And besides, it's fun watching the steam shoot out of Gene's ears.... -Ryan do not archive On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: I am reminded of the Zenith list, several years ago. When the 601XL had some wing problems, the list became very divided. A splinter group broke off, convinced that they needed to do the engineering for Zenith, and feelings got hurt. My suggestion is to keep the strut analysis issue on the Piet list. It=99ll run its courseand eventually the questions will be answered. Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:56 PM PST US From: Doug Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: take a short flight in NX48MC Been all the way to the arctic and back with out any roads=2C railroads or GPS. Doug Dever =0A In beautiful Stow Ohio Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: take a short flight in NX48MC From: jmconkling@gmail.com Naw=2C you use "old school" navigation -- an old road map=2C circle at 500 ft to read the name on the water tower=2C and follow the section lines ( IF Rrr - I fly roads=2C railroads=2C and rivers -- "don't need no stinken GPS" =3B-)=0A =0A =0A (another) Mike C.=0A Pretty Prairie=2C KS =0A On Fri=2C Aug 1=2C 2014 at 1:22 PM=2C AircamperN11MS wrote: =0A y.org> =0A How do we know that he even landed yet? He may have posted it from his I-PAD while still flying. Mike=2C correct me if I'm wrong here=2C I think you guys in that part of the country need the smoke system to see where you came from. There no mou ntains or even hills to determine which direction you are going or coming f rom. Just look for the smoke and you'll find the airport you left from. =0A -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427754#427754 =0A utilities such as List Un/Subscription=2C =0A ://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =0A href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matr onics.com =0A -Matt Dralle=2C List Admin. =0A ==== =0A =0A =0A =0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ============0A =0A ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Distance LE to front spar From: "Pocono John" With reference to drawing 5, lower wing profile drawing shows 6 3/4" from leading edge to front of forward spar. Drawing the wing using measurements from the top drawing, my forward spar front face is at 6 1/2". If I move the forward spar back 1/4", then both front and rear spars will be in correct spots according to the lower profile drawing (rear spar will be 23 1/2" from TE). The spars won't line up though with the measurements on the upper drawing. I think 1/4" off here could throw things off a bit. I hope to make Brodhead next year. Thank you. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427781#427781 ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Distance LE to front spar From: "jarheadpilot82" And your question is? Or is it simply a statement? I am not sure what you are trying to communicate. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427785#427785 ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Distance LE to front spar From: "Pocono John" I saw both profiles lined up with one another, and I saw the back of the forward spar was in line with the airfoil at the 5 9/16" thickness point. Drawing the spar there gave me 6 1/2" to the LE. I was wondering if it's better to move the spar back 1/4", which of course moves the rear spar also, but gives correct dimensions from LE and TE. I see this was probably a dumb question and I'll move the spar a 1/4" back. As far as question 2, I'm going to make that 'tongue' a little thicker than 5/8" I'm afraid I'm still trying to read the plans literally. I know I need to stop doing that. I'm trying to view the plans as only rough ideas/sketches and that I'll need to adjust everything, but it's difficult. Thanks. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427786#427786 ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:48 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Distance LE to front spar From: "Bill Church" John, I don't have my plans here to check against, but from memory: 1) Regarding the wing drawing - I don't recall the spars being shown in the top detail - just dimensions to be used to generate the profile for the airfoil. I believe the lower detail (with all the wood pieces shown) is the only drawing that shows the spars. 2) Regarding the empennage, the "main beam" has an overall thickness of 1", with 3/16" deep rabbets top and bottom, leaving 5/8" in the middle. That 3/16" is there to accept the capstrips, which are 3/16" thick. When putting the different profiles together, you have to get creative, and taper some of the pieces where they join together at the corners. This also involves shaving off some excess material to line up with the face of the gussets. The 5/8" dimension works. Bill C. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427790#427790 ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:43 PM PST US From: piperj3cubflyer Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: which holds more oil? ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:39 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC You like smoke? I geeve you smoke! Clif I want smoke! Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:58 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC I'm flyin' out of the wrong airport! Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 8:48 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: take a short flight in NX48MC You like smoke? I geeve you smoke! Clif I want smoke! Gary Boothe NX308MB ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:44 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing loads From: "jarheadpilot82" Gene, Gene, Humor is often tonal, so it is hard to get it in the written word. Contrast the lady at the store check out saying to you, "have a nice day!" In a happy tone with the guy saying "have a nice day" in a tone that really says "@&$)!&@!$& you!". Same 4 words, much different meanings. Same with humor. That is what makes humor writers rich - their ability to communicate humor via the written word. Don't feel bad. Few of us have that gift. One man's absurdity is another man's enjoyable pastime. I don't get why fat old guys chase a white ball around a cow pasture every Saturday morning, but golf was a $177 billion industry in 2011. I don't get "pasture pool" but plenty of people love it. But if people enjoy it, so be it. Same with analysis of spar strength, modulus of rupture, etc. just because you don't get it doesn't mean others don't find it fascinating. Why not just let 'em? -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=427799#427799 ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:16 PM PST US From: "Mike McGowan" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing loads For wing loading my 1949 edition of Bruhn (the last edition with wooden str uctures) shows uniform loading from the aircraft centerline out to the wing strut attach point. From there it tapers in a straight line to half of the uniform load at the wing tip. Other thoughts: people using Riblett airfoil could use a deeper spar and therefore thinner and maybe lighter. I am very nervous about routing a very expensive piece of wood and screwing it up th erefore the thought of using a plain rectangular piece of wood has great ap peal. Various other geometries such a I beam, C channel or Box beam would a llow thinner webs and maybe less weight but you would also have to reengine er compression webs, strut attach points, ailerons and other misc. Not wort h it in my book. Also changes in spars necessitates changes to the ribs so you can mount them to the spars. I=99m going with a plain old chunk o f wood, I just need to determine what size. Mike McGowan Model A From: Gary Boothe Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 4:06 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing loads https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klVhwlwHhY4 Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing loads And besides, it's fun watching the steam shoot out of Gene's ears.... -Ryan do not archive On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: I am reminded of the Zenith list, several years ago. When the 601XL had som e wing problems, the list became very divided. A splinter group broke off, convinced that they needed to do the engineering for Zenith, and feelings g ot hurt. My suggestion is to keep the strut analysis issue on the Piet list =2E It=99ll run its courseand eventually the questions will be answered. Gary Boothe NX308MB http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protec tion is active. http://www.avast.com ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:57 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: A Pietenpol Cousin From: Gerry Holland In an email conversation with Mike Cuy he suggested I circulate some basic details of my Corben Ace as a cousin of the Piet. It too saw the light of day in 1929 as a homebuilt plan. I live in England, the home of a few great Pietenpols and it seems natural to keep an eye on their life here and also the US fraternity and beyond. In fact I have the last Corben in Europe as far as I know. I crashed the second to last in 2012! Oops! Total write off. Mine is around 50+ years old and ex-Savannah, GA, an import. I reassembled it and rebuilt as necessary after buying as a dismantled unit. I sent my very tired A65-8 to be professionally rebuilt and it turns a vintage Flottorp 72" X 50" Prop. Again old but overhauled at Hercules Props. http://www.hercprops.com/ The Corben uses a Clark Y Airfoil full stop and a 26 foot span. It flies beautifully. I decided to go for shabby chic with polished aluminium and latex paint rolled on the rest. Great fun but it does look odd to any observer passing to see an aircraft being rolled with paint. The finish is dull but in keeping. A Thank you to Douwe, Oscar and others for sharing their Piet's. Gave me lots of ideas. If you visit UK give me a shout for a beer. I'm in the West Country in Somerset. Obligatory photo attached. Regards Gerry Gerry Holland gholland@content-stream.co.uk +44 (0)7808 402404 White Ox Mead Airstrip, Bath. England ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:47 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. 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The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Pietenpol-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:11 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.