Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:47 AM - Re: Re: Wing Kits (Robert Gow)
2. 04:25 AM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (womenfly2)
3. 04:44 AM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (Michael Perez)
4. 04:49 AM - Re: Carb choice for ford (Michael Perez)
5. 04:51 AM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (jarheadpilot82)
6. 04:58 AM - Re: Carb choice for ford (Yahoo! Account Service)
7. 05:01 AM - Re: Re: Building Wing Ribs (larharris2 Harris)
8. 05:07 AM - Re: Carb choice for ford (tkreiner)
9. 05:15 AM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (jarheadpilot82)
10. 05:57 AM - tillotson carb (Douwe Blumberg)
11. 01:45 PM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (tools)
12. 02:03 PM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (AircamperN11MS)
13. 02:10 PM - Re: Carb choice for ford (Michael Weston)
14. 02:15 PM - Re: tillotson carb (Doug)
15. 02:20 PM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (Jerry Dotson)
16. 03:48 PM - Re: tillotson carb (Greg Cardinal)
17. 08:41 PM - Re: Carb choice for ford (Ray Krause)
18. 08:55 PM - Re: tillotson carb (Ray Krause)
19. 09:14 PM - Re: Wing Kits (biplan53)
Message 1
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I bought a project that came with a set of ribs. I had previously purchased a
set of ribs from a person who was building them to order.
Original Message
From: biplan53
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 02:20
Reply To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Kits
How did you come up with an extra set of ribs? I am building a steel fuselage too.
I copied Aerojake and I am putting a door in the front seat. Have not figured
out the hinge yet. Also added about 7inches to the front seat area. I have
a wooden fuselage at the shop I am going to build the steel gear and brackets
for. If my friend puts the engine he wants on it, it will be something neat.
He wants to put a Donavan Model D engine in it. The model D is a copy of a model
A that is made to race engine specs. It is made of aluminum with a chevy 350
bearings and billet crank, forged rods and pistons. The ports are fashioned
on 350 ports. It is expensive but still cheaper than a new plane engine.
--------
Building steel fuselage aircamper.
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Building Wing Ribs |
> In one case, after steaming, drying, and assembly of the rib, I found the capstrip
split at the severest curve the next morning after the T-88 had cured. I
did a T-88 repair on this part since it will be under that 9-inch gusset the
length of the leading edge.
Do not remember the Piet rib having a "Sever Curve" ... ? All my top cap strips,
1/4" x 1/2" stika spruce, were steamed on a jig that over curved the radii to
allow for flex back giving them the correct curvature
Never had one brake as you posted in your pictures. It also looks like you have
more of a radius then the Piet rib in the drawings ?
I have also tried "Dry Heat" does not work without the moisture from the water
in the steam to help soften the wood fibers making the wood flexable.
BTW, I have built Piper J-3 ribs from 1/4" x 1/4" stika spruce without steaming
them, no issue with any braking.
Curious issues you are having.
WF2
--------
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| Subject: | Re: Building Wing Ribs |
When I made my ribs, I just soaked the finished cap strip in water for abou
t 30-40 min. They went directly on to the pre-bend jig, which was made with
an over bend to account for the spring back...as already mentioned. Once d
ry, the cap strip slipped nicely into the rib jig without having to bend or
force them into it. I did not have any breaking and in fact, the couple pi
eces I "stress tested" bent quite a bit before splitting.- sounds like yo
ur wood was still too dry after steaming and being placed in the pre-bend j
ig. (?)=0A=0A=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKareta
ker Aero=0AJury Strut Fabrication/Installation
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Carb choice for ford |
An option would be to fabricate one to fit, or have one made. The stress on the
arm itself at the carburetor is minimal. The arm should move smooth and free.
If God is your co-pilot, switch seats
Mike Perez
Karetaker Aero
Jury Strut Fabrication/Installation
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Building Wing Ribs |
Lorenzo,
Are you using the Pietenpol airfoil or the Riblett? I had some minor, but not near
as severe as your pictures show, cracking issues when steaming my capstrips.
The upper capstrip on the Riblett appears to have more of a curve to it.
I found that steaming mine, then IMMEDIATELY putting them in the rib jig worked
the best. Any more than about 10 seconds or so and the capstrips didno't seem
to want to bend as easily. In that case, I would stick them back in the stream
for a bit. I never did the "fishing pole casting" test, but I did not having
a lot of cracking issues, so I am happy with the outcome.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
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| Subject: | Re: Carb choice for ford |
If you like the Tillotaon X maybe you could make a new throttle arm.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
>From: aviken <aviken@windstream.net>
>Sent: Aug 13, 2014 9:25 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Carb choice for ford
>
>
>I need a little advice here.. In choosing a possible carb for my Jeep engine
powered piet, I tried a universal four cyl carb made years ago for tractors
fork lifts ect. It was brand new in the box, but it was very heavy and bulky.
Then I did a little research and it seemed some ford powered piets use the
Tillotson X Carb. So I bought one of them. It is small and light but what
concerns me is the small flimsy throttle arm. It seems like a very weak link
to risk your life on a piece of pot metal not much thicker than a kitchen match
with a little ball end to attatch your cable to. What other options should
I look at?
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428417#428417
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Building Wing Ribs |
"Severe curve" was just to try to describe the location. There really isn't
a severe curve=2C but my issues were where the rib had the 'most' curve=2C
on top at the front of the rib.
I bought Pietenpol's full size rib drawing. All my layouts are traced direc
tly from this drawing. I did not crosscheck the dimensions with the regular
plans drawing.
If I had it all to do over again=2C I would do as you describe. I would bui
ld my bending jig with a greater curve than the finished rib to allow for a
bit of springback.
Perhaps I just got a batch of exceptionally brittle spruce ?? Perhaps I sh
ould give the strips some more time in the steamer? I reckon it is all part
of the learning/building process.
Lorenzo
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs
> From: Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com
> Date: Thu=2C 14 Aug 2014 04:25:04 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
>
> Do not remember the Piet rib having a "Sever Curve" ... ? All my top cap
strips=2C 1/4" x 1/2" stika spruce=2C were steamed on a jig that over curve
d the radii to allow for flex back giving them the correct curvature
>
> Never had one brake as you posted in your pictures. It also looks like yo
u have more of a radius then the Piet rib in the drawings ?
>
> I have also tried "Dry Heat" does not work without the moisture from the
water in the steam to help soften the wood fibers making the wood flexable.
>
> BTW=2C I have built Piper J-3 ribs from 1/4" x 1/4" stika spruce without
steaming them=2C no issue with any braking.
>
> Curious issues you are having.
>
> WF2
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Carb choice for ford |
When you make one of these, you might consider using an exposed head with provision
for a safety wire...
Just my $.02
--------
Tom Kreiner
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| Subject: | Re: Building Wing Ribs |
Lorenzo,
I would let mine steam for at least 45-50 minutes, and usually it was fine. I am
guessing that I could have pulled them out well before then, but it certainly
did not hurt anything.
I like your rib jig, by the way.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
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You're right, the Tillotsen was frequently used in the earlier days on both
Fords and corvairs. They're not used much these days on either.
I am not personally familiar with the carb, but would definitely find a way
to replace the flimsy arm if it bothers you. believe me, if it bothers you
now? It'll REALLY bother you on climbout over trees at 400' with someone's
kid in the front seat.
I had a lot of luck with a weber on my ford installation. Most guys
successfully flying fords these days seem to be using a ford carb.
Good luck on this fascinating project!
Douwe
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Building Wing Ribs |
Wood fibers can be crushed, they CANNOT be stretched.
So, steaming or boiling helps to loosen up the wood cells. Bending effectively
is then a matter of making sure you are crushing cells, not trying to stretch
them.
When you hold a piece of wood freehand and bend it, in theory, the outer half of
the wood is in tension, the middle neutral, and the inner half in compression.
So to steam bend wood effectively and repeatably, you need to force ALL of the
wood into compression. Something as simple as nylon packing tape along the outside
radius, will (help) prevent any stretching there, and will effectively force
all of the wood into compression and it will bend A LOT, EVERY time. Commercial
wood bending jigs bend 1" and thicker chair backs like they're nothing.
They will capture the piece of wood in a jig. The backbone being some flexible
steel, end pieces welded or bolted to it. Then, the steel doesn't stretch,
the end pieces force the wood into compression.
With stuff as small as ours, the packing tape is cheap insurance. Needs to be
really well adhered though, so wrapped over the ends.
In the case of some ribs breaking and some not... when it's just free bent, it's
a matter of whether or not the outer fibers are strong enough to create this
condition themselves. Since they cannot stretch, if they reach their tensile
strength before the wood bends enough, they merely fail.
The steaming helps to keep the cells pliable, so when they crush, they don't fail
completely, but rather deform. The trick is to condition them enough so they'll
experience plastic deformation of a sort. It IS the moisture that does
this. Warm moisture is better. Steaming is more effective than boiling, but
I don't think boiling is really any problem at all.
Tage Frid has written some really good articles on wood bending, probably available
online these days.
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| Subject: | Re: Building Wing Ribs |
Professor Tools,
Good description and easy to understand. You taught me something today.
Thank you for that.
Cheers,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
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| Subject: | Re: Carb choice for ford |
hi kenny,mike w.here, just send me the arm and i'll make you a stronger one out
of billet. happy to help. mike weston.
Message 14
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Anyone ever thought of using an Aerocarb/Aeroinjector? Pretty simple...not
prone to icing.
Doug Dever
=0A
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: douweblumberg@earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tillotson carb
You=92re right=2C the Tillotsen was frequently used in the earlier days on
both Fords and corvairs. They=92re not used much these days on either. I
am not personally familiar with the carb=2C but would definitely find a wa
y to replace the flimsy arm if it bothers you. believe me=2C if it bothers
you now? It=92ll REALLY bother you on climbout over trees at 400=92 with
someone=92s kid in the front seat. I had a lot of luck with a weber on my f
ord installation. Most guys successfully flying fords these days seem to b
e using a ford carb. Good luck on this fascinating project!
Douwe=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
=0A
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Building Wing Ribs |
This thread is very interesting. I tried steaming first and got poor results. Then
I soaked them overnight and got great results. I built several of the drying
jigs. I stack sawed several. Then let them dry a few days. It was a fun part
of building. My drying jigs looked like twin brothers to Terry's. When I got
some dry and bent things went great. I built a finished rib every day and was
a little sad when they were done.
--------
Jerry Dotson
First flight June 16,2012
Flying in phase 2
Lycoming O-235 C2C
Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: tillotson carb |
I bacame intimately familiar with a Tillotson X on the way to Brodhead this
year when one of the three Pietenpols I was flying with made a deadstick l
anding in a farm field due to the float valve seat loosening up and starvin
g the engine of fuel.
The Tillotson X is lightweight and simple but there is no provision to safe
ty the float valve seat.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Douwe Blumberg
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 7:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tillotson carb
You're right, the Tillotsen was frequently used in the earlier days on bo
th Fords and corvairs. They're not used much these days on either.
I am not personally familiar with the carb, but would definitely find a w
ay to replace the flimsy arm if it bothers you. believe me, if it bothers
you now? It'll REALLY bother you on climbout over trees at 400' with someo
ne's kid in the front seat.
I had a lot of luck with a weber on my ford installation. Most guys succ
essfully flying fords these days seem to be using a ford carb.
Good luck on this fascinating project!
Douwe
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protec
tion is active.
http://www.avast.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Carb choice for ford |
Now that is a very nice gesture. I admired the one in the photo (I assume you
sent it) because I really love to see such works of art. I have a dear friend
who makes such things for me and my planes, it is a great talent and very much
appreciated. I have shown him some of my problems as they come along and he just
says, "let me think about that and get back to you". In a few days he has
solved my problem with an "adaptor", or a new way of doing the project. He machined
an aluminum adaptor between my tach and the tach cable that is both ingenious
and beautiful. I wish I had a picture of it to show you, but it is now
hidden behind the panel. It should be displayed in a crystal box!
This group is really great!
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Plugging away at the SkyScout and checked out anew in our restored Champ. Have
not flown one in thirty years, what a hoot. My seventeen year old grandson is
really excited because he took it off and landed it all by himself yesterday!
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 14, 2014, at 2:09 PM, Michael Weston <smikewest@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> hi kenny,mike w.here, just send me the arm and i'll make you a stronger one out
of billet. happy to help. mike weston.
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: tillotson carb |
And they have an adaptor for the small Continentals, it costs only $365.00! I
t does not need carb heat on the cowled Sonex aircraft, but not sure about o
n a non-pressure cowled Continental. I have not yet found anyone who has use
d one, but Sonex says it has been done successfully several times. I might d
o so on my SkyScout, but the engine came with an Stromberg NS-3B that works o
n the engine and it runs great! If I need an overhaul on the Stromberg, I w
ill probably change to an Aeroinjector, it works great on my Jabiru 3300/Wai
ex.
Ray Krause
Building SkyScout with A-65,already overhauled and successfully run.
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 14, 2014, at 2:14 PM, Doug <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone ever thought of using an Aerocarb/Aeroinjector? Pretty simple...no
t prone to icing.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
>
> From: douweblumberg@earthlink.net
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: tillotson carb
> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 08:57:06 -0400
>
> You=99re right, the Tillotsen was frequently used in the earlier day
s on both Fords and corvairs. They=99re not used much these days on e
ither.
>
>
>
> I am not personally familiar with the carb, but would definitely find a wa
y to replace the flimsy arm if it bothers you. believe me, if it bothers yo
u now? It=99ll REALLY bother you on climbout over trees at 400=99
with someone=99s kid in the front seat.
>
>
>
> I had a lot of luck with a weber on my ford installation. Most guys succe
ssfully flying fords these days seem to be using a ford carb.
>
>
>
> Good luck on this fascinating project!
>
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
> ==========
> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
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>
Message 19
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How much do you want for the ribs? You can email me at biplan53@hotmail.com. Thanks!!
--------
Building steel fuselage aircamper.
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