---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/15/14: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:53 AM - Re: tillotson carb (Michael Perez) 2. 04:12 AM - Re: Re: Building Wing Ribs (danhelsper@aol.com) 3. 04:42 AM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (tools) 4. 05:16 AM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (Michael Perez) 5. 05:23 AM - Jury Strut Kit Pictures (Michael Perez) 6. 05:49 AM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (larharris2 Harris) 7. 05:50 AM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (tools) 8. 05:57 AM - Aerocarb on Ford (Douwe Blumberg) 9. 06:03 AM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (tools) 10. 06:12 AM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (tools) 11. 08:03 AM - Re: Corvair College (wheelharp) 12. 10:44 AM - Re: tillotson carb (Ray Krause) 13. 11:05 AM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (Michael Perez) 14. 11:06 AM - Re: tillotson carb (Michael Perez) 15. 11:12 AM - Re: Carb choice for ford (Michael Perez) 16. 11:36 AM - Re: Aerocarb on Ford (Ray Krause) 17. 11:56 AM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (wheelharp) 18. 12:47 PM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (wheelharp) 19. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: Building Wing Ribs (larharris2 Harris) 20. 01:21 PM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (tools) 21. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: Building Wing Ribs (Gary Boothe) 22. 04:44 PM - Re: Re: Building Wing Ribs (Bill Budgell) 23. 05:27 PM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (jarheadpilot82) 24. 06:25 PM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (tools) 25. 06:28 PM - Re: Re: Building Wing Ribs (Gary Boothe) 26. 06:46 PM - Re: Building Wing Ribs (tools) 27. 08:47 PM - Re: Re: Corvair College (Dick N) 28. 09:36 PM - Re: Re: Building Wing Ribs (Ray Krause) 29. 10:46 PM - Re: Corvair College (William Wynne) 30. 11:08 PM - Rick Schreiber - engine warning (William Wynne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:05 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tillotson carb Ray, if you decide to off load your NS3-B Stromberg, I'd would be intereste d in it. I'll need one for my other A-65 when I finish the overhaul on it s omeday.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKar etaker Aero=0AJury Strut Fabrication/Installation ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs From: danhelsper@aol.com I actually built all my ribs WITHOUT steaming/soaking at all (these were the days before I knew about the Matronics list) . After awhile I had heard from the old timers at Brodhead that these built ribs would begin to break on the complet ed/flying aircraft. This gave me the heebee geebees so I soa ked all the completed ribs in a 5 gallon bucket overnight, in order to release any stress that was there. It worked. I even had two that broke at the "severe" arch, and had to make two new ribs from scratch.=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0ALoensloe Airfield=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Jerry Dotson =0ATo: pietenpol-list =0ASent: Thu, Aug 14, 2014 4:21 pm=0ASubject: Pietenp ol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs=0A=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson" =0A=0AThis thread is very interesting. I tried steaming first and got poor res ults. =0AThen I soaked them overnight and got great results. I built several of the =0Adrying jigs. I stack sawed several . Then let them dry a few days. It was a fun =0Apart o f building. My drying jigs looked like twin brothers to Terr y's. When I =0Agot some dry and bent things went great. I built a finished rib every day and =0Awas a little sad whe n they were done.=0A=0A--------=0AJerry Dotson=0A=0AFirst flight Jun e 16,2012=0AFlying in phase 2=0ALycoming O-235 C2C=0AJay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428461 #428461=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/a5 =========================== =========================== =========================== -Matt Dralle, List A =========================== =========================== ===0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs From: "tools" I've built some ribs using western cedar* without soaking or steaming. They've been hanging on the wall for years with no ill effects. So, as usual, it all depends. Probably as much as anything, would be the moisture content of the wood at the time of bending and what environment the wood lives in afterwards. I have a feeling most airplane wood goes from indoor MC to outdoor MC which isn't gonna stress it as much as outdoor wood going indoors. Also, the grain orientation will matter. Whether the cap strip is quarter, rift or plain sawn. I don't know the technical answer off the top of my head, but I've had the best results with plain sawn wood. *western cedar is both lighter and weaker than spruce, but plenty strong for wing ribs. I've found where it's been used in a number of home builts over the years for weight and cost savings. It behaves quite well. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428483#428483 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:49 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building Wing Ribs Tools, I am not quite sure I follow your explanation. The first sentence: --"Wood fibers can be crushed, they CANNOT be stretched."=0AThen Later" Something as simple as nylon packing tape along the outside radius, will (h elp) prevent any stretching there,..."If God is your co-pilot, switch seats =0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AJury Strut Fabrication/Installation ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:26 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jury Strut Kit Pictures Crew, I have been asked about the Jury Strut Kit from Carlson Aircraft and decided to post some pictures of it. It seems to be a very nice kit and the instructions are easy to read. Most all parts are cut to size and bagged/l abeled clearly.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Per ez=0AKaretakerAero=0AJury Strut Fabrication/Installation=0A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:56 AM PST US From: larharris2 Harris Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Building Wing Ribs Mike=2C Tools is correct. Even with all the soaking and steaming=2C you can only get=2C at best=2C a 2-percent stretch from wood. Some wood=2C not all . This means that if you try to stretch it=2C it WILL fail. But the soaking and steaming can make it a bit squishy in compression (Tools' term 'crushe d' implies failure. We're not looking for failure=2C just compression.)=2C and it will take a permanent set when the heat/steam/moisture is removed. When you bend a stick=2C the neutral axis is along the center. The outer ha lf is in tension=2C and the inner half is in compression. Make too much ten sion - failure. Exactly what the photos of my failed capstrips show. The te chnique Tools presented was to connect another strong=2C rigid material to the outside of the bending wood=2C before it is bent=2C to move the neutral axis all the way to the outside of the bend=2C thus putting all the load o n your bent piece of wood into compression. This technique has been used by furniture makers for centuries. Lorenzo From: speedbrake@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building Wing Ribs Tools=2C I am not quite sure I follow your explanation. The first sentence: "Wood fibers can be crushed=2C they CANNOT be stretched."Then Later"Somet hing as simple as nylon packing tape along the outside radius=2C will (help ) prevent any stretching there=2C..." If God is your co-pilot=2C switch sea tsMike=0A PerezKaretaker AeroJury Strut Fabrication/Installation =0A =0A =0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ============0A =0A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:39 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs From: "tools" Hey Mike, not the most intuitive thing... let me try to explain. First, does the explanation about when you "free bend", meaning just hang onto a piece of wood and bend it, that the outside half of the wood is in tension, the middle of the wood is neutral, and the inside is in compression? This is a basic force diagram sort of thing for a beam across a span sort of situation. To give a better verbalized pictorial, assume the beam is being held on the ends, in the middle. As in they taper to a point and are being supported by those points, near the center of the beam. As the beam bends from gravity (or a load), the outside radius is in tension. The beam is trying to stretch. The middle sees no compression or tension, only bending. The inside of the radius sees compression, the force resisting bending is that the beam resists getting compressed. If you support that beam at the bottom, as in just set it on the wall, the beam is (sort of...) forced into resisting bending ONLY due to compressive forces. If you bolt a little tab onto the beam's upper surface, and support it from there (as in hang it down between the walls), the beam resists bending due to tensile forces. It trys to stretch, but beams don't stretch usually... In all cases, the force is the least at the point of support, and gets bigger the further away from the support you go. In the case of wood cells, they simply cannot stretch, at all. They can resist stretching until the point of failure, but they won't get longer, it will just fail. Natural fiber rope is safer because it doesn't stretch before failure, similar to wood fibers. Synthetic ropes will stretch before failing and can be lethal on ships. Crop dusters would rather hit aluminum lines (power lines) because they just fail, they don't stretch like old phone (copper) lines do. Wood cells can crush. If they're dry enough, they just break. If they're pliable enough, they sort of just squish, the cell wall stays in tact. That's why dry wood doesn't bend as well as wet wood. This is relative, ALL wood is wet to some degree. Dry rot is a fungus, and has nothing to do with dry, by the way... So.... to bend wood effectively, we need to make sure when we bend it, we support the wood at the outside of the radius. If you take a piece of metal pallet strapping, longer than the piece we're going to bend, and put "end stops" on it, VERY well attached so they cannot slip along the metal strapping, spaced apart the SAME size as the blank of wood we're going to bend (so you can't use random length pieces and cut them to size later, you can cut to size later, but all the blanks used in this jig HAVE to be the same size for it to work, needs to fit snug), we have an effective wood bending jig. Put the wood in it (steamed, boiled, wet off the tree, just not super dry - certainly not 8 percent out of the kiln and left indoors in a dry environment) and bend. Those end stops will FORCE the entire wood bending action into compression, thusly making it work. If the wood fails, it won't fail along the outside of the radius like in the above photos, it may experience a compression fracture, see my post about fixing a horiz stab a few months ago, and you'll see that on the INSIDE of the radius. That would indicate the wood is too dry to bend. Strapping tape basically doesn't stretch, and the bends and wood we're talking about aren't very varsity, so will HELP to force the wood into compression, taking strain off the outside wood itself, and will aid the process. Uh... does this help or just muddy up the waters? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428490#428490 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:19 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aerocarb on Ford I tried an Aerocarb on my Ford installation. I tested it with the Aerocarb and a Weber. It's been a few years so my memory of the details aren't crystal clear. I actually had the Aerocarb on the plane for its first and only flight with the Ford. On the stand, the carb seemed to work well and I liked how simple it was, and very nicely made. I had zero trouble with slide sticking. The starting process had to be a bit different due to the nature of the design, but once a process was figured out it was fine. It just starts to drip the moment the fuel is on, so that becomes part of the starting procedure. I probably ran it about five hours on the test stand with the aerocarb and about the same with the weber. I seem to remember the weber being a bit smoother, but that makes total sense considering the design. It seemed that it would be very hard to make an aerocarb stop feeding fuel to an engine. I think it is well worth experimenting with. Douwe ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:01 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs From: "tools" By the way, I didn't figure ANY of this out... I've a VERY complete selection of nearly every book on woodworking printed by the Taunton press in the mid 80's and early 90's. I've got the first two hundred issues of Fine Woodworking magazine, and most of the first 50 or so from American Woodworking, Wood and Woodworker's Journal. I taught myself everything I know about woodworking from all of this. I deal mostly with solid wood and spend a lot of time designing furniture and joinery around wood movement to prevent eventual failure due to inevitable wood movement. Many antiques are authenticated by inattention to this, and the resulting inevitable cracks that develop. By the way, plywood doublers on solid spars ARE NOT a good design. If you read the aircraft repair manual, it does state that doublers can be plywood or solid wood. The solid wood is WAY superior for longevity because it will expand and contract with the spar (for example). The plywood will not and the glue joint will fail. Of course, most spars are quartersawn, the most stable of conditions, and that helps. Also, the better they are varnished, the more stable they are. If they're given three coats of epoxy, well applied, no problem, the wood is inert at that point. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428494#428494 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs From: "tools" Lorenzo, You're exactly right about my misuse of the term crushed... thanks! Also, your succinct explanation is way better than mine, thanks again! Tools, who pretty much needs his hands to talk... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428495#428495 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:30 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair College From: "wheelharp" Does anyone know what time CC 30 at Zenith plant starts? I thought there would be more info when I signed up, but there wasn't ...I looked on Williams site, and also couldn't find anything. I live about 3 hours away, and will probably just drive up the morning of, unless it starts earlier than say, 7 AM. -------- Jon Jones Ironton, MO Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428501#428501 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:35 AM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tillotson carb Mike, So far the carb seems to work OK, but it has not been tested under real cond itions. According WW's recommendations, it and the mags should be overhaule d by a reputable mechanic trained to do the job. Seems that job for the car b is about $1000.00. Wish someone would reproduce the carb, would maybe cost less! If I don't use the Stromberg, it will be because it doesn't work, so it woul d probably not be worth much! But I will make a note of your request. It's been great following your progress...I'm envious. Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Aug 15, 2014, at 3:52 AM, Michael Perez wrot e: > > Ray, if you decide to off load your NS3-B Stromberg, I'd would be interest ed in it. I'll need one for my other A-65 when I finish the overhaul on it s omeday. > > If God is your co-pilot, switch seats > Mike Perez > Karetaker Aero > Jury Strut Fabrication/Installation > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:56 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Building Wing Ribs Tools, I understand what you are saying...I was just giving you a hard time saying wood fibers don't stretch and then later saying the tape prevents s tretch. just messin' with ya...sorry.=0A=0AOn a side note, I would be inter ested in the furniture you make/have made. I have done the same and plan to get back into it after the plane is finished.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co -pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AJury Strut Fabrication /Installation ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:04 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tillotson carb Thanks Ray. Keep me in mind just in case.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilo t, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AJury Strut Fabrication/Inst allation ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:11 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Carb choice for ford Ray, that machined carb. arm in the picture is mine, however, it was Mike W eston who offered to make you one for your carb. if needed.=0A=0A-=0AIf G od is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AJury Stru t Fabrication/Installation ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:16 AM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aerocarb on Ford Douwe, The AeroCarb has a leaning valve that is nothing more than a needle valve th at restricts the flow of Fuel to the inlet orafice. That is how I shut off t he fuel flow. On my Jabiru, the AeroCarb is in a horizontal position to the engine, not vertical as it would be on an A-65. My starting procedure on th e Jab is to open the throttle slightly, push in the mixture to full rich and hit the starter; no priming regardless of the temperature. It starts on the first, or second blade. It must start on fumes because I cannot visualize a tomized fuel getting to the cylinders. Sonex told me to use the same procedure with the A-65, but I'm sure the fuel would be running out of the cowl, or soaking into the air filter. But ther e are a lot of planes running the VW engines with the AeroCarb mounted verti cally with no problems. Did you try leaning the engine with the AeroCarb after starting? Most every one has the AeroCarb set to start rich. So that leaning would have made it r un more smoothly as compared to the other carb. But leaning on a Ford, or A- 65 might be open to guesstimates and/or speculation. I guess on the A-65 on e would just lean till it ran roughly, then enrichen a little. But thanks for the comments, it helps. By the way, the newer AeroInjectoer does not have the "sticky" throttle whic h is caused by the intake suction holding the slide tightly to the carb body while the engine runs. The newer carb has Teflon sliders that allow the sli de to move more freely. Just information and thoughts. Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Aug 15, 2014, at 5:57 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote: > > I tried an Aerocarb on my Ford installation. I tested it with the Aerocar b and a Weber. It=99s been a few years so my memory of the details ar en=99t crystal clear. > > I actually had the Aerocarb on the plane for its first and only flight wit h the Ford. On the stand, the carb seemed to work well and I liked how simp le it was, and very nicely made. I had zero trouble with slide sticking. T he starting process had to be a bit different due to the nature of the desig n, but once a process was figured out it was fine. It just starts to drip t he moment the fuel is on, so that becomes part of the starting procedure. > > I probably ran it about five hours on the test stand with the aerocarb and about the same with the weber. I seem to remember the weber being a bit sm oother, but that makes total sense considering the design. > > It seemed that it would be very hard to make an aerocarb stop feeding fuel to an engine. I think it is well worth experimenting with. > > Douwe > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs From: "wheelharp" I did a quick sketch of a bending strap to move the axis of the bend to the outside edge of rib and put all fibers in compression. I was thinking of using 1/2" pallet banding, and in re-reading tools description of old furniture bending straps, it sounds exactly the same...doggonit, thought I had came up with something for a minute! Anyway, I guess the downside is, you would have to cut your rib exactly to size so compression would begin immediately as bend is started, but hey, these ribs are chocked full of precise cuts anyways-what's one more! -------- Jon Jones Ironton, MO Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428520#428520 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ribbend_387.jpg ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs From: "wheelharp" I read tools latest post AGAIN, and see where I drew what he was describing down to the last detail, pallet strap, blocks and all, so let me start over--- "Tools, I made a drawing of the process you described..." -------- Jon Jones Ironton, MO Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428522#428522 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:14 PM PST US From: larharris2 Harris Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs Clever. I like it. But too late for me. Lorenzo > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs > From: wheelharp@gmail.com > Date: Fri=2C 15 Aug 2014 11:55:44 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > I did a quick sketch of a bending strap to move the axis of the bend to t he outside edge of rib and put all fibers in compression. I was thinking of using 1/2" pallet banding=2C and in re-reading tools description of old fu rniture bending straps=2C it sounds exactly the same...doggonit=2C thought I had came up with something for a minute! Anyway=2C I guess the downside is=2C you would have to cut your rib exactly to size so compression would begin immediately as bend is started=2C but hey=2C these ribs are chocked f ull of precise cuts anyways-what's one more! ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs From: "tools" Mike, seriously?!! All that for nothing! Good one... Still, a good discussion on what's going on when ya bend wood. Wing bows, rib caps, etc. GREAT diagram of how to make a bending jig. The jig doesn't have to be precise, the end blocks can be adjustable... or use shims. The part just needs to fig snugly. Another trick, ammonia. Use that alot for bending balsa wood in model building. Not sure what's going on, need to check with a bud who's a wood technologist. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428525#428525 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:15 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs Just so that all new builders are clear.... Nearly every wood/fabric wing built since the Wright Brothers was built with simple rib jigs, with the cap strips soaked or steamed. No need to make an already tedious process more so... Gary Boothe NX308MB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428522#428522 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:09 PM PST US From: Bill Budgell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs Right on enough talk start building then it wont take 1000 hrs.?=0A=0ARegar ds:-- Bill Budgell=0A=0ACap Aviation Supplies=0A =0A=0A________________ ________________=0A From: Gary Boothe =0ATo: pietenpo l-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, August 15, 2014 5:47:43 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs=0A =0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List me ssage posted by: "Gary Boothe" =0A=0AJust so that all new builders are clear....=0A=0ANearly every wood/fabric wing built since the Wright Brothers was built with=0Asimple rib jigs, with the cap strips s oaked or steamed. No need to make an=0Aalready tedious process more so... =0A=0AGary Boothe=0ANX308MB=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428522#428522=0A=0A=0A=0A = ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:27 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs From: "jarheadpilot82" Gary, I did not find the capstrip bending tedious, nor this current discussion. I actually find it quite interesting as I am gaining new knowledge and learning new skills. Keep talkin' Tools and you other guys. If I get bored I can simply hit delete. But I don't expect to any time soon! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428537#428537 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:34 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs From: "tools" Lorenzo, I was reviewing your photos and your wing jig, as much as I can see and am wondering about a difference between your jig and mine... It seems yours has supports to clamp to on the INSIDE of the radius of the upper cap strip, whereas mine has them on the OUTSIDE (merely coincidence, not sure why I built it that way...) of the radius. So I pull my strips up into the curve and clamp them, while you bend yours down to the clamps. Think that's enough difference to cause the few of yours that broke, to break? Given how well yours were tested and steamed, just wondering why you even had that many that failed. Tools Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428538#428538 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:34 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs WOW! Where did that come from? You guys go ahead and talk away...but, as I said, I wouldn't want newbies to have the impression that this is a highly technical process. I'm merely reminding that it's very simple. As for being tedious, I'm glad you enjoy rib building so much, but, if it wasn't so tedious, why do so many builders search for pre-built ribs? And, Yes, I find rib building very tedious. Gary Boothe NX308MB 13 ribs into the 38 needed for my Boredom Fighter... -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jarheadpilot82 Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 5:27 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs --> Gary, I did not find the capstrip bending tedious, nor this current discussion. I actually find it quite interesting as I am gaining new knowledge and learning new skills. Keep talkin' Tools and you other guys. If I get bored I can simply hit delete. But I don't expect to any time soon! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428537#428537 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:12 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs From: "tools" Hey Gary, How ya making the rudder bow? Is that a solid bent piece, or a lamination? Seems the vert and horiz stabs also have some decent bends. Looks like a fun plane! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428540#428540 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:58 PM PST US From: "Dick N" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair College Jon I'm signed up for that one also. It isn't specified in my paperwork either. Figure on 8-9 am. That is the way the last one went, but that one was at at Barnwell S.C. These things arent real structured. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "wheelharp" Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 10:03 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair College > > Does anyone know what time CC 30 at Zenith plant starts? I thought there > would be more info when I signed up, but there wasn't ...I looked on > Williams site, and also couldn't find anything. I live about 3 hours away, > and will probably just drive up the morning of, unless it starts earlier > than say, 7 AM. > > -------- > Jon Jones > Ironton, MO > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428501#428501 > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:45 PM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs Gary, Is that 38 ribs for the top wing, then another 38 for the bottom wing, maybe vice versa? I love that plane. Someone on Barnstormers just had a beautiful one for sale. But it couldn't be as nice as the one you will build. Keep building! Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Aug 15, 2014, at 6:28 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote: > > > WOW! Where did that come from? You guys go ahead and talk away...but, as I > said, I wouldn't want newbies to have the impression that this is a highly > technical process. I'm merely reminding that it's very simple. As for being > tedious, I'm glad you enjoy rib building so much, but, if it wasn't so > tedious, why do so many builders search for pre-built ribs? And, Yes, I find > rib building very tedious. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > 13 ribs into the 38 needed for my Boredom Fighter... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > jarheadpilot82 > Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 5:27 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building Wing Ribs > > --> > > Gary, > > I did not find the capstrip bending tedious, nor this current discussion. I > actually find it quite interesting as I am gaining new knowledge and > learning new skills. > > Keep talkin' Tools and you other guys. If I get bored I can simply hit > delete. But I don't expect to any time soon! > > -------- > Semper Fi, > > Terry Hand > Athens, GA > > USMC, USMCR, ATP > BVD DVD PDQ BBQ > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428537#428537 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:49 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair College From: "William Wynne" Jon, The sign up for CC#30 closed about 90 minutes ago. After we have the emails of everyone who is attending, we send out a series of emails with a lot of details on prepping for the college and the schedule for the event. The on line sign up is done for us by Ken Pavlou (he flew the blue/gray Corvair powered 601XL to Oshkosh) and I expect to have the final list from him in a day or two, and the builders who signed up will get the follow on information after that. If you have further questions after that, email me privately. If you would like to cover it on the phone, I will be glad to do so when I get back to Florida in a week. Grace and I are still in NJ taking care of my Father. ww. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428547#428547 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Rick Schreiber - engine warning From: "William Wynne" Builders, I just put a story on my website about a dangerous idiot who came to my booth at Oshkosh to brag that the had talked a Corvair/Pietenpol builder out of using the forged pistons I have specified for 25 years. The idiot claimed I didn't know Corvairs as well as he did, and the additional cost of forged pistons, ( less than 1% of a $10K plane) was a waste. The full story is at this link: http://flycorvair.net/2014/08/16/local-expert-convinces-builder-to-use-cast-pistons/ It is worth reading for the lesson of not listening to idiot local experts, and the cost of being around fools in aviation The plane and engine in question belong to Rick Schreiber. I like Rick a lot, and I didn't use his name on my site, but I do here because it is my heart felt wish that he rethink taking advice from this idiot. I have no idea what other things this fool talked Rick into. I have known too many people hurt in planes because they took advice from an idiot. -ww. 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