Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:01 AM - it's been a good run but.......... (Lawrence Williams)
2. 06:14 AM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (bdewenter)
3. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (Kip Gmail)
4. 07:11 AM - it's been a good run but.......... (Lawrence Williams)
5. 07:15 AM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (TriScout)
6. 07:27 AM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (Braniff1966)
7. 07:39 AM - dunning kruger effect (Braniff1966)
8. 07:46 AM - Re: dunning kruger effect (Robert Gow)
9. 07:51 AM - GENERAL INFORMATION (Braniff1966)
10. 07:55 AM - Engine (Robert Gow)
11. 09:25 AM - Re: it's been a good run but.......... (jarheadpilot82)
12. 09:29 AM - Re: dunning kruger effect (Braniff1966)
13. 09:34 AM - Re: Engine (jim hyde)
14. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: it's been a good run but.......... (jim hyde)
15. 09:45 AM - Re: dunning kruger effect (jarheadpilot82)
16. 10:01 AM - Re: it's been a good run but.......... (tools)
17. 10:24 AM - Re: Re: dunning kruger effect (Boatright, Jeffrey)
18. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: it's been a good run but.......... (Boatright, Jeffrey)
19. 12:16 PM - Re: Re: dunning kruger effect (jim hyde)
20. 12:53 PM - Re: it's been a good run but.......... (Don Emch)
21. 03:15 PM - Re: it's been a good run but.......... (dfwplt)
22. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: it's been a good run but.......... (George Abernathy)
23. 03:51 PM - Re: it's been a good run but.......... (jarheadpilot82)
24. 07:25 PM - Re: Engine (tools)
25. 07:46 PM - Re: Re: Engine (Robert Gow)
26. 08:13 PM - Re: Engine (tools)
27. 08:54 PM - Contact! Magazine all-Piet issue (taildrags)
Message 1
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| Subject: | it's been a good run but.......... |
I built an r/c model of an Air Camper in 1974. I started the full-scale version
in 1995. I attended the Brodhead reunions for years and was able to pick the
brains of the guys who were "there". Hoopman, Kapler, Felix, Sampson, Lovely,
Rudolph and others. I sat with them, notebook in hand, and soaked in as much of
the aura as I could.I incorporated the tips that were passed along into my project
because I wanted to have an airplane that captured the essence
------------------------------
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 2:02 AM CDT Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote:
>*
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
>Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
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>
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>
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> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sun 08/17/14: 15
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Today's Message Index:
>----------------------
>
> 1. 07:28 AM - Re: Evening flight (Jerry Dotson)
> 2. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (danhelsper@aol.com)
> 3. 10:30 AM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (jarheadpilot82)
> 4. 11:18 AM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (aerocarjake)
> 5. 11:33 AM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (jarheadpilot82)
> 6. 02:26 PM - Re: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (danhelsper@aol.com)
> 7. 02:53 PM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (jarheadpilot82)
> 8. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (Dennis Engelkenjohn)
> 9. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (Boatright, Jeffrey)
> 10. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (danhelsper@aol.com)
> 11. 04:01 PM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (jarheadpilot82)
> 12. 04:22 PM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (Braniff1966)
> 13. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (Kip Gmail)
> 14. 05:11 PM - This was an interesting video for comparison (Mark Roberts)
> 15. 07:38 PM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (Braniff1966)
>
>
>
>________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:28:35 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Evening flight
>From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
>
>
>Douwe,
>
> I know you had a blast flying with your daughter. The Stearman appears to have
>a 450 P&W on it's nose. It makes good compared with the old, tired Stearman
>I sprayed with(1970-71). It never made it further than silver on the recover job
>years before. By the time I got started flying it it had several rolls of silver
>duct tape on it. I put a couple on it myself. That was in the day when a
>Stearman got no respect like Rodney Dangerfield. They are a pretty piece of history
>but I have no desire to fly one any more.
>
>--------
>Jerry Dotson
>
>First flight June 16,2012
>Flying in phase 2
>Lycoming O-235 C2C
>Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
>do not archive
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428602#428602
>
>
>________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:31:00 AM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: danhelsper@aol.com
>
>WW,=0A=0A=0AI don't know about that man at Brodhead, but I c
>an tell you that Rick Schreiber is no idiot. As a matter
>of fact, he is a very thoughtful, intelligent and purposeful
>decision maker. As for you, I would like to extend an invi
>te to apply for the open position on the Board of Crumudeo
>ns. Your personality is exactly what we are looking for...abra
>sive, harsh, not reluctant to name-call. Please consider.=0A=0A=0A
>Dan Helsper=0ALoensloe Airfield=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A
>
>________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 10:30:41 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Dan,
>
>Since you felt the need to defend Rick, I guess I feel the need to do the same
>on William's behalf. Not that he necessarily needs it.
>
>William did not call Rick an idiot, but obviously he did call the gentleman who
>helped Rick in his decision making an idiot. Because idiot's DO advise on things
>they know nothing about. My take it is not that he is an idiot. Rather than
>being an idiot, I believe Rick is misinformed and misguided on who to listen
>to when it comes to Corvair engines used in aircraft. You can decide what words
>to use when describing someone that allows their decision making to be influenced
>by those who have no experience in that area. I prefer to simply use the
>term misguided, as that is what is more correct - guided incorrectly.
>
>As far as inviting William to join the Curmudgeons, I think that he would not
be
>welcome at that table for long. William's most recent postings that you find
>"curmudgeonly" I would describe them (more accurately) as focused and direct
>on areas that he feels passionate about that fall under the category of risk management
>and decision making. The Curmudgeonly group often, in my opinion have
>been disagreeable for disagreeability's sake, with little constructive advice
>couched in the curmudgeonly responses. William is, obviously, opinionated, but
>as you can see from the definition below, opinionated is not a synonym for
>curmudgeon. I think his focus on tangible issues as opposed to the concept of
>thinking disagreeability is somehow "funny" would put him outside of the curmudgeonly
>mainstream very quickly.
>
>--------
>Semper Fi,
>
>Terry Hand
>Athens, GA
>
>USMC, USMCR, ATP
>BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428610#428610
>
>
>________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 11:18:36 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
>
>
>.......just as one voice in the wind, I would like to say that if anyone sees
something
>questionable, unsafe, concerning, or anything of the like on my project/Pietenpol,
>I would appreciate if you could pull me aside quietly & whisper
>it in my ear, or post it offline, or post it openly, or use a bullhorn, or shout
>it from a mountaintop. I am open to input.....!
>
>--------
>Jake Schultz - curator,
>Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428614#428614
>
>
>________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 11:33:10 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Nice comment, Jake. That is a rule we should all use as we build.
>
>Dan, one last thing. You may not agree with, or even appreciate William's method
>of bringing this to Rick or other builder's attention. The one thing you cannot
>question is William's motive. He doesn't sell forged pistons. It is not his
>parts for which he was questioning the lack of use. His motive is to help builders
>make sound as opposed to unsound decisions. It was not a question of using
>a brand new oil cooler as opposed to using a stock GM oil cooler (both are
>used). It was a known flaw in parts choice that he questioned. People today think
>that this is a live and let live world where people should be free to make
>decisions good or bad, and we should not question their decisions. It might
>hurt someone's feelings. William doesn't appear to ascribe to that notion when
>it comes to risk management.
>
>My take is like Jake's-if you see me making a bad choice from a risk management
>perspective, then by all means shout it from the roof tops if that is what it
>takes to get my attention.
>
>--------
>Semper Fi,
>
>Terry Hand
>Athens, GA
>
>USMC, USMCR, ATP
>BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428615#428615
>
>
>________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 02:26:35 PM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: danhelsper@aol.com
>
>...........nails on chalkboard......=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----
>=0AFrom: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list
><pietenpol-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Sun, Aug 17, 2014 1:33 pm=0AS
>ubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning=0A=0A=0A
>82@hotmail.com>=0A=0ANice comment, Jake. That is a rule we shoul
>d all use as we build.=0A=0ADan, one last thing. You may n
>ot agree with, or even appreciate William's method =0Aof bring
>ing this to Rick or other builder's attention. The one thing
> you cannot =0Aquestion is William's motive. He doesn't sell
>forged pistons. It is not his =0Aparts for which he was qu
>estioning the lack of use. His motive is to help =0Abuilders
> make sound as opposed to unsound decisions. It was not a
>question of =0Ausing a brand new oil cooler as opposed to
>using a stock GM oil cooler (both are =0Aused). It was a
>known flaw in parts choice that he questioned. People today
>=0Athink that this is a live and let live world where peop
>le should be free to make =0Adecisions good or bad, and we
> should not question their decisions. It might hurt =0Asomeone
>'s feelings. William doesn't appear to ascribe to that notion
>when it =0Acomes to risk management.=0A=0AMy take is like Jake
>'s-if you see me making a bad choice from a risk managemen
>t =0Aperspective, then by all means shout it from the roof
>tops if that is what it =0Atakes to get my attention.=0A=0A-
>-------=0ASemper Fi,=0A=0ATerry Hand=0AAthens, GA=0A=0AUSMC, USMCR, AT
>P=0ABVD DVD PDQ BBQ=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0A
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428615#428615=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
>==========================
>==========================
>==========================
>==========================
>==========================
>======================0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
>=0A
>
>________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 02:53:29 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Sorry you feel that way on an open discourse, Dan. The fact that I disagree with
>you and am willing to say why equates to fingernails down a chalk board says
>at least as much about you, as it does me.
>
>Don't forget the delete button works well on any of these posts. If you don't
like
>what I write, simply hit delete and the fingernails on a chalkboard magically
>cease for you.
>
>--------
>Semper Fi,
>
>Terry Hand
>Athens, GA
>
>USMC, USMCR, ATP
>BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428624#428624
>
>
>________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 03:17:25 PM PST US
>From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <mushface1@gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>
>
>This may be unwelcome, but I am going to say it anyway. When I met Wm for
>the first time he looked like hell. No offense William. It was not long
>after his plane wreck and he was a pile of bandages and pain. It was really,
>really bad. He suffered a long time from that pain from the burns. He
>doesn't want any one else to go through what he did if they can avoid it. He
>got lucky and lived, some don't. His message isn't arrogance, but concern
>for people because someone may save a few bucks but leave a lasting hole in
>their family.
>Dennis
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jarheadpilot82
>Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:30 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>
><jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
>Dan,
>
>Since you felt the need to defend Rick, I guess I feel the need to do the
>same on William's behalf. Not that he necessarily needs it.
>
>William did not call Rick an idiot, but obviously he did call the gentleman
>who helped Rick in his decision making an idiot. Because idiot's DO advise
>on things they know nothing about. My take it is not that he is an idiot.
>Rather than being an idiot, I believe Rick is misinformed and misguided on
>who to listen to when it comes to Corvair engines used in aircraft. You can
>decide what words to use when describing someone that allows their decision
>making to be influenced by those who have no experience in that area. I
>prefer to simply use the term misguided, as that is what is more correct -
>guided incorrectly.
>
>As far as inviting William to join the Curmudgeons, I think that he would
>not be welcome at that table for long. William's most recent postings that
>you find "curmudgeonly" I would describe them (more accurately) as focused
>and direct on areas that he feels passionate about that fall under the
>category of risk management and decision making. The Curmudgeonly group
>often, in my opinion have been disagreeable for disagreeability's sake, with
>little constructive advice couched in the curmudgeonly responses. William
>is, obviously, opinionated, but as you can see from the definition below,
>opinionated is not a synonym for curmudgeon. I think his focus on tangible
>issues as opposed to the concept of thinking disagreeability is somehow
>"funny" would put him outside of the curmudgeonly mainstream very quickly.
>
>--------
>Semper Fi,
>
>Terry Hand
>Athens, GA
>
>USMC, USMCR, ATP
>BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428610#428610
>
>
>________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 03:36:59 PM PST US
>From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright@emory.edu>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>
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>
>________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 03:46:39 PM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: danhelsper@aol.com
>
>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHe doesn't sell forged pistons=0A=0AWell, I guess h
>e does..=0A"Every forged piston we have ever sold was made i
>n California"=0A=0A=0ANo, Mr Hand, I do not agree with, nor
>do I appreciate, his "method of bringing this to Rick's atte
>ntion". I think it is low class, and more about WW's self-
>importance and self aggrandizement, rather than from a genuine
>concern for Rick's safety. And actually, I do question "Willia
>m's motive". Dare I say, public humiliation, is not the best
> way to approach the "concern" for others.=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0A
>Loensloe Airfield=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFr
>om: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list <pi
>etenpol-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Sun, Aug 17, 2014 1:33 pm=0ASubj
>ect: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning=0A=0A=0A-
>2@hotmail.com>=0A=0ANice comment, Jake. That is a rule we should
> all use as we build.=0A=0ADan, one last thing. You may no
>t agree with, or even appreciate William's method =0Aof bringi
>ng this to Rick or other builder's attention. The one thing
>you cannot =0Aquestion is William's motive. He doesn't sell fo
>rged pistons. It is not his =0Aparts for which he was ques
>tioning the lack of use. His motive is to help =0Abuilders
>make sound as opposed to unsound decisions. It was not a q
>uestion of =0Ausing a brand new oil cooler as opposed to u
>sing a stock GM oil cooler (both are =0Aused). It was a
>known flaw in parts choice that he questioned. People today
>=0Athink that this is a live and let live world where peop
>le should be free to make =0Adecisions good or bad, and we
> should not question their decisions. It might hurt =0Asomeone
>'s feelings. William doesn't appear to ascribe to that notion
>when it =0Acomes to risk management.=0A=0AMy take is like Jake
>'s-if you see me making a bad choice from a risk managemen
>t =0Aperspective, then by all means shout it from the roof
>tops if that is what it =0Atakes to get my attention.=0A=0A-
>-------=0ASemper Fi,=0A=0ATerry Hand=0AAthens, GA=0A=0AUSMC, USMCR, AT
>P=0ABVD DVD PDQ BBQ=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0A
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428615#428615=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
>==========================
>==========================
>==========================
>==========================
>==========================
>======================0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
>=0A=0A=0A
>
>________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 04:01:46 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Dan,
>
>A small point of correction-
>
>What I should have said is that William does not sell forged pistons of his own
>design.
>
>Again my point is simply this- William brought up the point in the way as he thought
>it the best way to get Rick's attention. I have no way of knowing unless
>Rick chooses to respond. I am not calling him out at all. I am just saying I
>can't crawl inside his head in see why he made the build decision he did. Just
>as you can't crawl in Williams head and surmise why he did it that way.
>
>--------
>Semper Fi,
>
>Terry Hand
>Athens, GA
>
>USMC, USMCR, ATP
>BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428629#428629
>
>
>________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 04:22:20 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "Braniff1966" <jnl96@yahoo.com>
>
>
>williams said it like it it is.. i understood his comments.. there is right, wrong,
>black and white when it comes to safety.. people that beat around their bush
>or someone elses bush irritate me. i want people looking at my project every
>detail and telling me DIRECT if they see something im doing wrong.. i had rather
>get my feelings hurt than my f______ing neck broke.. safety is everyones
>job and it comes first..
>
>hyde
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428630#428630
>
>
>________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 04:47:18 PM PST US
>From: Kip Gmail <kipgohio1957@gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>
>
>Actually, I think William does resell forged pistons simply because
>there is a demand for them, and they are certainly in the engines he
>completes for others. Also, I seem to recall that in the past that he
>would bring sets to CC's and resell them at cost, just so they were
>available if anyone needed them during the weekend, don't know if he
>still does that. I think it is fair to say that he is not in the
>business of selling pistons to make a lot of money, so Dan, your nit-
>picking is really just that.
>
>On Aug 17, 2014, at 7:01 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> Dan,
>>
>> A small point of correction-
>>
>> What I should have said is that William does not sell forged pistons
>> of his own design.
>>
>> Again my point is simply this- William brought up the point in the
>> way as he thought it the best way to get Rick's attention. I have no
>> way of knowing unless Rick chooses to respond. I am not calling him
>> out at all. I am just saying I can't crawl inside his head in see
>> why he made the build decision he did. Just as you can't crawl in
>> Williams head and surmise why he did it that way.
>>
>> --------
>> Semper Fi,
>>
>> Terry Hand
>> Athens, GA
>>
>> USMC, USMCR, ATP
>> BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428629#428629
>>
>>
>
>
>________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 05:11:35 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: This was an interesting video for comparison
>From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>
>
>This girl is 14, and rebuilding a Pontiac Fiero. About 3 minutes in, she starts
>talking about all the things she is learning while rebuilding the car... How
>an engine works, how to weld, etc.
>
>It was like listening to a presentation about why you should build an airplane.
>It was inspiring! The only thing she could have done better was chose a Piet
>and build an airplane instead of a car... Enjoy!
>
>http://videos.komando.com/watch/6196/viral-videos-youll-never-guess-what-this-talented-teen-is-building-from-scratch?utm_medium=nl&utm_source=tvkim&utm_content 14-08-17-article-screen-shot-b
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428632#428632
>
>
>________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:38:57 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "Braniff1966" <jnl96@yahoo.com>
>
>
>anyone know why this dude crashed in the first place...in crm where did the error
>chain start??
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428635#428635
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning |
My 2 cents - WW using names
I don't think WW uses names to "humiliate" the person in the story. Rather (for
me) its a wake up call - If a respected, intelligent, friendly person like Rick
can follow poor advice, what am I capable of doing? Seeing someones name
is a WW post forces me to pause a moment, and re-check my decision making abilities
as they relate to risk management.
--------
Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
Dayton OH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428649#428649
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning |
Exactly, Bob. I think that could be the last word on the subject
unless Rick chooses to share anything with the forum (which I, for
one, would appreciate).
Kip Gardner
On Aug 18, 2014, at 9:14 AM, bdewenter wrote:
> >
>
> My 2 cents - WW using names
>
> I don't think WW uses names to "humiliate" the person in the story.
> Rather (for me) its a wake up call - If a respected, intelligent,
> friendly person like Rick can follow poor advice, what am I capable
> of doing? Seeing someones name is a WW post forces me to pause a
> moment, and re-check my decision making abilities as they relate to
> risk management.
>
> --------
> Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter
> Dayton OH
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428649#428649
>
>
Message 4
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|
| Subject: | it's been a good run but.......... |
I built an r/c model of an Air Camper in 1974. I started the full-scale version
in 1995. I attended the Brodhead reunions for years and was able to pick the
brains of the guys who were "there". Hoopman, Kapler, Felix, Sampson, Lovely,
Rudolph, Egsgaard and others. I sat with them, notebook in hand, and soaked in
as much of the aura as I could.I incorporated the tips that were passed along
into my project because I wanted to have an airplane that captured the essence
of the Flying & Glider manual's articles and pictures. In other words, I wanted
a Pietenpol Air Camper!
I have every issue of the Buckeye Pietenpol Association newsletter from Pavliga
through MacClaren and Mosher to the present. I've collected every EAA magazine
that has a Pietenpol in it as well as other memorabilia.
I've flown my Piet so many places and met so many people that I could spend the
rest of my life happily remembering my lazy meanderings in the little airplane
that opened this exclusive world to me.
Over the years on this site, I've endured the repetitive questions from each starry
eyed newcomer to the list as well as those who change/modify/reinforce/redesign/upgrade
the design sometimes without even having seen an Air Camper in
person. Every so often there will be a newcomer who has more time to get on his
keyboard than to work on his project and for a time he annoys many who have
been around for a while with his ramblings. Thankfully most of them get weeded
out by moving to Belize or stalling out on their project and they are never heard
from again.
This latest round of banter about WW being the Messiah of homebuilding in general
and engines in particular has gotten to be the last straw for me. When I see
the lemmings streaming to WW, I just roll my eyes and wonder how so many are
so easily led. (BHO comes to mind)
Anyway; all this is but a long prelude to the main purpose of this post which is
to say that the next button I use will be the one that says "unsubscribe".
There is no reason to respond to this post as I'll be off the list within seconds
of this being sent.
Larry Williams
Top Curmudgeon
the Abominable Slowman
God has been my copilot for over 40 years and over 14,000 hours and I'm not about
to change seats!
Do not archive
------------------------------
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 2:02 AM CDT Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote:
>*
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
>Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
>two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
>in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
>and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
>of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
>such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
>HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 14-08-17&Archive=Pietenpol
>
>Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 14-08-17&Archive=Pietenpol
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sun 08/17/14: 15
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Today's Message Index:
>----------------------
>
> 1. 07:28 AM - Re: Evening flight (Jerry Dotson)
> 2. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (danhelsper@aol.com)
> 3. 10:30 AM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (jarheadpilot82)
> 4. 11:18 AM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (aerocarjake)
> 5. 11:33 AM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (jarheadpilot82)
> 6. 02:26 PM - Re: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (danhelsper@aol.com)
> 7. 02:53 PM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (jarheadpilot82)
> 8. 03:17 PM - Re: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (Dennis Engelkenjohn)
> 9. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (Boatright, Jeffrey)
> 10. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (danhelsper@aol.com)
> 11. 04:01 PM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (jarheadpilot82)
> 12. 04:22 PM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (Braniff1966)
> 13. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (Kip Gmail)
> 14. 05:11 PM - This was an interesting video for comparison (Mark Roberts)
> 15. 07:38 PM - Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning (Braniff1966)
>
>
>
>________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:28:35 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Evening flight
>From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@centurylink.net>
>
>
>Douwe,
>
> I know you had a blast flying with your daughter. The Stearman appears to have
>a 450 P&W on it's nose. It makes good compared with the old, tired Stearman
>I sprayed with(1970-71). It never made it further than silver on the recover job
>years before. By the time I got started flying it it had several rolls of silver
>duct tape on it. I put a couple on it myself. That was in the day when a
>Stearman got no respect like Rodney Dangerfield. They are a pretty piece of history
>but I have no desire to fly one any more.
>
>--------
>Jerry Dotson
>
>First flight June 16,2012
>Flying in phase 2
>Lycoming O-235 C2C
>Jay Anderson CloudCars prop 76 X 44
>do not archive
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428602#428602
>
>
>________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 09:31:00 AM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: danhelsper@aol.com
>
>WW,=0A=0A=0AI don't know about that man at Brodhead, but I c
>an tell you that Rick Schreiber is no idiot. As a matter
>of fact, he is a very thoughtful, intelligent and purposeful
>decision maker. As for you, I would like to extend an invi
>te to apply for the open position on the Board of Crumudeo
>ns. Your personality is exactly what we are looking for...abra
>sive, harsh, not reluctant to name-call. Please consider.=0A=0A=0A
>Dan Helsper=0ALoensloe Airfield=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A
>
>________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 10:30:41 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Dan,
>
>Since you felt the need to defend Rick, I guess I feel the need to do the same
>on William's behalf. Not that he necessarily needs it.
>
>William did not call Rick an idiot, but obviously he did call the gentleman who
>helped Rick in his decision making an idiot. Because idiot's DO advise on things
>they know nothing about. My take it is not that he is an idiot. Rather than
>being an idiot, I believe Rick is misinformed and misguided on who to listen
>to when it comes to Corvair engines used in aircraft. You can decide what words
>to use when describing someone that allows their decision making to be influenced
>by those who have no experience in that area. I prefer to simply use the
>term misguided, as that is what is more correct - guided incorrectly.
>
>As far as inviting William to join the Curmudgeons, I think that he would not
be
>welcome at that table for long. William's most recent postings that you find
>"curmudgeonly" I would describe them (more accurately) as focused and direct
>on areas that he feels passionate about that fall under the category of risk management
>and decision making. The Curmudgeonly group often, in my opinion have
>been disagreeable for disagreeability's sake, with little constructive advice
>couched in the curmudgeonly responses. William is, obviously, opinionated, but
>as you can see from the definition below, opinionated is not a synonym for
>curmudgeon. I think his focus on tangible issues as opposed to the concept of
>thinking disagreeability is somehow "funny" would put him outside of the curmudgeonly
>mainstream very quickly.
>
>--------
>Semper Fi,
>
>Terry Hand
>Athens, GA
>
>USMC, USMCR, ATP
>BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428610#428610
>
>
>________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 11:18:36 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
>
>
>.......just as one voice in the wind, I would like to say that if anyone sees
something
>questionable, unsafe, concerning, or anything of the like on my project/Pietenpol,
>I would appreciate if you could pull me aside quietly & whisper
>it in my ear, or post it offline, or post it openly, or use a bullhorn, or shout
>it from a mountaintop. I am open to input.....!
>
>--------
>Jake Schultz - curator,
>Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428614#428614
>
>
>________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 11:33:10 AM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Nice comment, Jake. That is a rule we should all use as we build.
>
>Dan, one last thing. You may not agree with, or even appreciate William's method
>of bringing this to Rick or other builder's attention. The one thing you cannot
>question is William's motive. He doesn't sell forged pistons. It is not his
>parts for which he was questioning the lack of use. His motive is to help builders
>make sound as opposed to unsound decisions. It was not a question of using
>a brand new oil cooler as opposed to using a stock GM oil cooler (both are
>used). It was a known flaw in parts choice that he questioned. People today think
>that this is a live and let live world where people should be free to make
>decisions good or bad, and we should not question their decisions. It might
>hurt someone's feelings. William doesn't appear to ascribe to that notion when
>it comes to risk management.
>
>My take is like Jake's-if you see me making a bad choice from a risk management
>perspective, then by all means shout it from the roof tops if that is what it
>takes to get my attention.
>
>--------
>Semper Fi,
>
>Terry Hand
>Athens, GA
>
>USMC, USMCR, ATP
>BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428615#428615
>
>
>________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 02:26:35 PM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: danhelsper@aol.com
>
>...........nails on chalkboard......=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----
>=0AFrom: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list
><pietenpol-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Sun, Aug 17, 2014 1:33 pm=0AS
>ubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning=0A=0A=0A
>82@hotmail.com>=0A=0ANice comment, Jake. That is a rule we shoul
>d all use as we build.=0A=0ADan, one last thing. You may n
>ot agree with, or even appreciate William's method =0Aof bring
>ing this to Rick or other builder's attention. The one thing
> you cannot =0Aquestion is William's motive. He doesn't sell
>forged pistons. It is not his =0Aparts for which he was qu
>estioning the lack of use. His motive is to help =0Abuilders
> make sound as opposed to unsound decisions. It was not a
>question of =0Ausing a brand new oil cooler as opposed to
>using a stock GM oil cooler (both are =0Aused). It was a
>known flaw in parts choice that he questioned. People today
>=0Athink that this is a live and let live world where peop
>le should be free to make =0Adecisions good or bad, and we
> should not question their decisions. It might hurt =0Asomeone
>'s feelings. William doesn't appear to ascribe to that notion
>when it =0Acomes to risk management.=0A=0AMy take is like Jake
>'s-if you see me making a bad choice from a risk managemen
>t =0Aperspective, then by all means shout it from the roof
>tops if that is what it =0Atakes to get my attention.=0A=0A-
>-------=0ASemper Fi,=0A=0ATerry Hand=0AAthens, GA=0A=0AUSMC, USMCR, AT
>P=0ABVD DVD PDQ BBQ=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0A
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428615#428615=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
>==========================
>==========================
>==========================
>==========================
>==========================
>======================0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
>=0A
>
>________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 02:53:29 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Sorry you feel that way on an open discourse, Dan. The fact that I disagree with
>you and am willing to say why equates to fingernails down a chalk board says
>at least as much about you, as it does me.
>
>Don't forget the delete button works well on any of these posts. If you don't
like
>what I write, simply hit delete and the fingernails on a chalkboard magically
>cease for you.
>
>--------
>Semper Fi,
>
>Terry Hand
>Athens, GA
>
>USMC, USMCR, ATP
>BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428624#428624
>
>
>________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 03:17:25 PM PST US
>From: "Dennis Engelkenjohn" <mushface1@gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>
>
>This may be unwelcome, but I am going to say it anyway. When I met Wm for
>the first time he looked like hell. No offense William. It was not long
>after his plane wreck and he was a pile of bandages and pain. It was really,
>really bad. He suffered a long time from that pain from the burns. He
>doesn't want any one else to go through what he did if they can avoid it. He
>got lucky and lived, some don't. His message isn't arrogance, but concern
>for people because someone may save a few bucks but leave a lasting hole in
>their family.
>Dennis
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jarheadpilot82
>Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:30 PM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>
><jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
>Dan,
>
>Since you felt the need to defend Rick, I guess I feel the need to do the
>same on William's behalf. Not that he necessarily needs it.
>
>William did not call Rick an idiot, but obviously he did call the gentleman
>who helped Rick in his decision making an idiot. Because idiot's DO advise
>on things they know nothing about. My take it is not that he is an idiot.
>Rather than being an idiot, I believe Rick is misinformed and misguided on
>who to listen to when it comes to Corvair engines used in aircraft. You can
>decide what words to use when describing someone that allows their decision
>making to be influenced by those who have no experience in that area. I
>prefer to simply use the term misguided, as that is what is more correct -
>guided incorrectly.
>
>As far as inviting William to join the Curmudgeons, I think that he would
>not be welcome at that table for long. William's most recent postings that
>you find "curmudgeonly" I would describe them (more accurately) as focused
>and direct on areas that he feels passionate about that fall under the
>category of risk management and decision making. The Curmudgeonly group
>often, in my opinion have been disagreeable for disagreeability's sake, with
>little constructive advice couched in the curmudgeonly responses. William
>is, obviously, opinionated, but as you can see from the definition below,
>opinionated is not a synonym for curmudgeon. I think his focus on tangible
>issues as opposed to the concept of thinking disagreeability is somehow
>"funny" would put him outside of the curmudgeonly mainstream very quickly.
>
>--------
>Semper Fi,
>
>Terry Hand
>Athens, GA
>
>USMC, USMCR, ATP
>BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428610#428610
>
>
>________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 03:36:59 PM PST US
>From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright@emory.edu>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>
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>aXZlZCB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgaW4gZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBjb250YWN0DQp0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGJ5
>IHJlcGx5IGUtbWFpbCBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBkZXN0cm95IGFsbCBjb3BpZXMgb2YgdGhlDQpvcmln
>aW5hbCBtZXNzYWdlIChpbmNsdWRpbmcgYXR0YWNobWVudHMpLg0K
>
>________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 03:46:39 PM PST US
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: danhelsper@aol.com
>
>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHe doesn't sell forged pistons=0A=0AWell, I guess h
>e does..=0A"Every forged piston we have ever sold was made i
>n California"=0A=0A=0ANo, Mr Hand, I do not agree with, nor
>do I appreciate, his "method of bringing this to Rick's atte
>ntion". I think it is low class, and more about WW's self-
>importance and self aggrandizement, rather than from a genuine
>concern for Rick's safety. And actually, I do question "Willia
>m's motive". Dare I say, public humiliation, is not the best
> way to approach the "concern" for others.=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0A
>Loensloe Airfield=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFr
>om: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list <pi
>etenpol-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Sun, Aug 17, 2014 1:33 pm=0ASubj
>ect: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning=0A=0A=0A-
>2@hotmail.com>=0A=0ANice comment, Jake. That is a rule we should
> all use as we build.=0A=0ADan, one last thing. You may no
>t agree with, or even appreciate William's method =0Aof bringi
>ng this to Rick or other builder's attention. The one thing
>you cannot =0Aquestion is William's motive. He doesn't sell fo
>rged pistons. It is not his =0Aparts for which he was ques
>tioning the lack of use. His motive is to help =0Abuilders
>make sound as opposed to unsound decisions. It was not a q
>uestion of =0Ausing a brand new oil cooler as opposed to u
>sing a stock GM oil cooler (both are =0Aused). It was a
>known flaw in parts choice that he questioned. People today
>=0Athink that this is a live and let live world where peop
>le should be free to make =0Adecisions good or bad, and we
> should not question their decisions. It might hurt =0Asomeone
>'s feelings. William doesn't appear to ascribe to that notion
>when it =0Acomes to risk management.=0A=0AMy take is like Jake
>'s-if you see me making a bad choice from a risk managemen
>t =0Aperspective, then by all means shout it from the roof
>tops if that is what it =0Atakes to get my attention.=0A=0A-
>-------=0ASemper Fi,=0A=0ATerry Hand=0AAthens, GA=0A=0AUSMC, USMCR, AT
>P=0ABVD DVD PDQ BBQ=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0A
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428615#428615=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
>==========================
>==========================
>==========================
>==========================
>==========================
>======================0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
>=0A=0A=0A
>
>________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 04:01:46 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
>
>
>Dan,
>
>A small point of correction-
>
>What I should have said is that William does not sell forged pistons of his own
>design.
>
>Again my point is simply this- William brought up the point in the way as he thought
>it the best way to get Rick's attention. I have no way of knowing unless
>Rick chooses to respond. I am not calling him out at all. I am just saying I
>can't crawl inside his head in see why he made the build decision he did. Just
>as you can't crawl in Williams head and surmise why he did it that way.
>
>--------
>Semper Fi,
>
>Terry Hand
>Athens, GA
>
>USMC, USMCR, ATP
>BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428629#428629
>
>
>________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 04:22:20 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "Braniff1966" <jnl96@yahoo.com>
>
>
>williams said it like it it is.. i understood his comments.. there is right, wrong,
>black and white when it comes to safety.. people that beat around their bush
>or someone elses bush irritate me. i want people looking at my project every
>detail and telling me DIRECT if they see something im doing wrong.. i had rather
>get my feelings hurt than my f______ing neck broke.. safety is everyones
>job and it comes first..
>
>hyde
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428630#428630
>
>
>________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 04:47:18 PM PST US
>From: Kip Gmail <kipgohio1957@gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>
>
>Actually, I think William does resell forged pistons simply because
>there is a demand for them, and they are certainly in the engines he
>completes for others. Also, I seem to recall that in the past that he
>would bring sets to CC's and resell them at cost, just so they were
>available if anyone needed them during the weekend, don't know if he
>still does that. I think it is fair to say that he is not in the
>business of selling pistons to make a lot of money, so Dan, your nit-
>picking is really just that.
>
>On Aug 17, 2014, at 7:01 PM, jarheadpilot82 wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> Dan,
>>
>> A small point of correction-
>>
>> What I should have said is that William does not sell forged pistons
>> of his own design.
>>
>> Again my point is simply this- William brought up the point in the
>> way as he thought it the best way to get Rick's attention. I have no
>> way of knowing unless Rick chooses to respond. I am not calling him
>> out at all. I am just saying I can't crawl inside his head in see
>> why he made the build decision he did. Just as you can't crawl in
>> Williams head and surmise why he did it that way.
>>
>> --------
>> Semper Fi,
>>
>> Terry Hand
>> Athens, GA
>>
>> USMC, USMCR, ATP
>> BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428629#428629
>>
>>
>
>
>________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 05:11:35 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: This was an interesting video for comparison
>From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>
>
>This girl is 14, and rebuilding a Pontiac Fiero. About 3 minutes in, she starts
>talking about all the things she is learning while rebuilding the car... How
>an engine works, how to weld, etc.
>
>It was like listening to a presentation about why you should build an airplane.
>It was inspiring! The only thing she could have done better was chose a Piet
>and build an airplane instead of a car... Enjoy!
>
>http://videos.komando.com/watch/6196/viral-videos-youll-never-guess-what-this-talented-teen-is-building-from-scratch?utm_medium=nl&utm_source=tvkim&utm_content 14-08-17-article-screen-shot-b
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428632#428632
>
>
>________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:38:57 PM PST US
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning
>From: "Braniff1966" <jnl96@yahoo.com>
>
>
>anyone know why this dude crashed in the first place...in crm where did the error
>chain start??
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428635#428635
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning |
..reminds me of a wer wer 1 song..
"Take the cylinder out of my Kidneys,
The Connecting Rod out of me arse, me arse,
>From the small of my back take the camshaft,
And assembly the F___ing thing again!"
--------
KLNC
A65-8
N2308C
AN Hardware
Airframe 724TT
W72CK-42 Sensenich
Standard Factory GN-1
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Rick Schreiber - engine warning |
everyone building a home built plane should have a good understanding of the DUNNING
KRUGER EFFECT>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428656#428656
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| Subject: | dunning kruger effect |
the more i read here on the subject of building an airplane the more im sure that
we all should read and have a basic understanding of the DUNNING KRUGER EFFECT...without
an understanding of DUNNING KRUGER we all will spend way too much
time wasting time. anything said here should be weighed in light of DUNNING
KRUGER
jim hyde :( [Idea]
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428657#428657
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| Subject: | dunning kruger effect |
It also explains a lot of what I see in the work place.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Braniff1966
Sent: August 18, 2014 10:39 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: dunning kruger effect
the more i read here on the subject of building an airplane the more im
sure that we all should read and have a basic understanding of the DUNNING
KRUGER EFFECT...without an understanding of DUNNING KRUGER we all will
spend way too much time wasting time. anything said here should be weighed
in light of DUNNING KRUGER
jim hyde :( [Idea]
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428657#428657
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| Subject: | GENERAL INFORMATION |
ant time im around a group of pilots no matter what the subject i put on the FULL
ARMOUR OF DUNNING KRUGER EFFECT in order to protect myself and produce others
:)
jim hyde
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428659#428659
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Now that I have opened up Model A engine and had a good look I am ready to
get someone to do the machine work. I have asked the Model A folks in
this area and I have been advised that no one local can do the mods I
need.
Aside from the plans mods which include drilling the crank for pressure
oiling, I'd like to get the oversize valves, insert bearings and perhaps a
"cruising" cam. I plan the aluminum 6.5:1 head as well.
Can anyone recommend an engine builder? There are several on the web that
should be capable.
Bob
Robert Gow,
President and DAO Manager.
Avionics Design Services Ltd.
Phn 705-527-6095
Cell 416-434-3393
Fax 705-527-6028
www.avionicsdesign.ca
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: it's been a good run but.......... |
Larry,
I will write this to you, even though you supposedly will not see it. If you choose
to leave (yet again), it is your right to do so. Fair winds and following
seas, as we used to say.
As a new guy who is often verbose (my wife reminds me of this on a regular basis),
I appreciate all those forum members who are not stuck in the past. I am respectful
as well as appreciative of those who came before us. I am sorry I have
not had the opportunity to meet the Reweys, the Pavligas, and the Kaplers of
the recent past. I, however, have been extremely priveged to have met the Purtees,
the Cardinals, the Schultz's and the Dewenters of today. Some are flying
while others, like me, are building or rebuilding. Each have freely shared
their knowledge, their successes as well as their mistakes (sorry about that spar,
Jake!) I appreciate the past but look forward to a growing group of people
who help each other, praise each other, stand up to each other if poor choices
are made. That is what real friends do.
Larry, your last post is almost a "Pietenpols are going to Hell in a hand basket"
sort of speech. Sorry you feel that way. I do not. I anxiously await everyone's
input, knowing that if it helps, it's great. But if it is not for me, then
the delete key is always at the ready. But we are free to be either way on this
forum.
Let's get back to the shop, shall we? See you there!
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428665#428665
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: dunning kruger effect |
sometimes when im talking i think of dunning kruge. then i shutup and sit down
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428666#428666
Message 13
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there=C2- is a co. near dallas that can do it all and experienced with wh
at u need. i would start with model a clubs in that area.. they are well kn
own=0A=0Ahyde =0A=0A=0AOn Monday, August 18, 2014 10:02 AM, Robert Gow <rgo
w@avionicsdesign.ca> wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0ANow that I have opened up Model A
engine and had a good look I am ready to get someone to do the machine work
.=C2-=C2- I have asked the Model A folks in this area and I have been a
dvised that no one local can do the mods I need.=0AAside from the plans mod
s which include drilling the crank for pressure oiling, I=99d like to
get the oversize valves, insert bearings and perhaps a =9Ccruising
=9D cam.=C2- I plan the aluminum 6.5:1 head as well.=C2- =0A=C2
-=0ACan anyone recommend an engine builder?=C2- There are several on th
e web that should be capable.=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0ABob=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A
=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0ARobert Gow,=0APresident and DAO Manager.=0AAvion
ics Design Services Ltd.=0APhn 705-527-6095=0ACell 416-434-3393=0AFax 705-5
=======
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: it's been a good run but.......... |
try the dunning kruger effect as a filter it works in both transmit and rec
eive for me.=0A=0Ajim =0A=0A=0AOn Monday, August 18, 2014 11:32 AM, jarhead
pilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com> wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List
message posted by: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>=0A=0ALarr
y,=0A=0AI will write this to you, even though you supposedly will not see i
t. If you choose to leave (yet again), it is your right to do so. Fair wind
s and following seas, as we used to say.=0A=0AAs a new guy who is often ver
bose (my wife reminds me of this on a regular basis), I appreciate all thos
e forum members who are not stuck in the past. I am respectful as well as a
ppreciative of those who came before us. I am sorry I have not had the oppo
rtunity to meet the Reweys, the Pavligas, and the Kaplers of the recent pas
t. I, however, have been extremely priveged to have met the Purtees, the Ca
rdinals,- the Schultz's and the Dewenters of today. Some are flying while
others, like me, are building or rebuilding. Each have freely shared their
knowledge, their successes as well as their mistakes (sorry about that spa
r, Jake!) I appreciate the past but look forward to a growing group of peop
le who help each other, praise each other, stand up to each other if poor c
hoices are made. That is what real friends do.=0A=0ALarry, your last post i
s almost a "Pietenpols are going to Hell in a hand basket" sort of speech.
Sorry you feel that way. I do not. I anxiously await everyone's input, know
ing that if it helps, it's great. But if it is not for me, then the delete
key is always at the ready. But we are free to be either way on this forum.
=0A=0ALet's get back to the shop, shall we? See you there!=0A=0A--------=0A
Semper Fi,=0A=0ATerry Hand=0AAthens, GA=0A=0AUSMC, USMCR, ATP=0ABVD DVD PDQ
BBQ=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronic
=============
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: dunning kruger effect |
Jim,
I have to admit I did not know what that was so I looked it up. See below.
We all should use that filter at certain times. Good point on your part.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: it's been a good run but.......... |
Is Larry selling the plane too?
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428673#428673
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| Subject: | Re: dunning kruger effect |
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DQo
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: it's been a good run but.......... |
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: dunning kruger effect |
we all end up working from both sides of the concept at least for me =0A
=0A=0AOn Monday, August 18, 2014 12:37 PM, "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatri
ght@emory.edu> wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0AWe all fall somewhere on a D-K curve (th
ere are probably curves for different activities). Spike Milligan said it b
est:=C2-Happy little moron, Lucky little man. I wish I was a moron,=C2-
My God! Perhaps I am! =0A =0AWhich, of course, is why many of us are here o
n the list =94 to learn, and if we=99re lucky, to teach. =0A=0A
=0A-- =0A =0AFrom: jarheadpilot82 <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>=0AReply-T
o: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>=0ADate: Mo
nday, August 18, 2014 at 12:45 PM=0ATo: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <pie
tenpol-list@matronics.com>=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dunning kruger ef
eadpilot82@hotmail.com> =0A>=0A> =0A>Jim, =0A>I have to admit I did not kn
ow what that was so I looked it up. See below. =0A>=0A> =0A>We all should u
se that filter at certain times. Good point on your part. =0A>=0A> =0A>----
---- =0A>Semper Fi, =0A>=0A> =0A>Terry Hand =0A>Athens, GA =0A>=0A> =0A>USM
C, USMCR, ATP =0A>BVD DVD PDQ BBQ =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>R
ead this topic online here: =0A>=0A> =0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewto
pic.php?p=428669#428669 =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>Attachmen
ts: =0A>=0A> =0A>http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_149.jpg =0A>=0A>
==C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-- The Pieten
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
================= =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>
=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AThis e-mai
l message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of=0Athe intended
recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged=0Ainformation. If
the reader of this message is not the intended=0Arecipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution=0Aor copying of this message
(including any attachments) is strictly=0Aprohibited.=0A=0AIf you have rec
eived this message in error, please contact=0Athe sender by reply e-mail me
ssage and destroy all copies of the=0Aoriginal message (including attachmen
ts).
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: it's been a good run but.......... |
Sometimes when someone wants to give advice and they deliver it in a manner that
they are right and superior and everyone else is beneath them, it's a little
tough to take. Many folks tend to read the character of a person and accept advice
when it is delivered in a much more diplomatic manner. To chase away guys
like Larry Williams is really too bad for this group. If you are building,
please exercise discernment in who you listen to for advice. It only makes sense
to listen to guys who have built and have been flying safely for years. Often
you'll find they are the ones that are not telling you how right and how
superior they are.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428687#428687
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: it's been a good run but.......... |
Good points Don. I'm also concerned that some of us are clouding up VERY valuable
information with not so subtle personal character and moral innuendoes. Where
did all that come from? And I'm NOT just referring to William Wynne's statements.
This is a much larger issue than any one person. Up until recently
names never WERE mentioned but technical pointers were very clear. And thank
goodness!
I rebuilt my lift struts because someone mentioned how welding aluminum destroyed
the strength of aluminum. I didn't need my name mentioned to get the point!!!
NO ONE on this list is so stupid that they need to be mentioned by name to
apply valuable content! We're ALL anxious to do that! That's a big part of
why we're here. We're also here because this is a very special group of people.
And I can tell you more than one builder I've passed "suggestions" to in
this public forum but you will NOT be able to figure out who it was. That's NOT
important!
And all this "you have a delete key" crap? Enough already! How about we PERSONALLY
apply a delete key to some of our typing BEFORE we hit the send button?
TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY TO BE A POSITIVE CONTRIBUTOR TO THIS FORUM!!! Don't
let the fact that I have a delete key remove YOUR responsibility to participate
in this forum like a gentleman and stay focused on building in the spirit of
this wonderful old Pietenpol design.
Some of these messages simply communicate a misleading message. Let's start putting
a bit more brain power into WHY we're typing that message and WHAT it really
communicates before we hit the send button. Then we won't ever have to
make that silly "you have a delete key" statement.
Think about this: When you type a message, read it back and think how it would
sound if you were standing on a table in the pavilion at Brodhead....would you
say something like that in front of all those people you barely know but respect
so much?
Come on folks, in this type of forum there's no stopping vulgar language or "subtle"
character attacks, but really, where is it getting us? Take that stuff
to some other forum, this place is special. If life has burdened you and today
isn't a good day, take some time off from the list!
Oh, and I admittedly don't have ANY experience flying a Pietenpol and I've made
EVERY single mistake possible on my project. And I have NO more right to pontificate
than anyone. But I just HAVE to believe we can each refocus a bit and
get this thing back on a MUCH more positive track. Let's get back to the point
where we don't EVEN have these conversations about people leaving and our
focus makes more people want to JOIN the list! And believe me, this isn't just
about Larry Williams...many other important voices are now silent and should
NOT be! Let's move beyond THAT debate and move forward!
Let's take a look at the general attitude around here and stop focusing on individuals.
Please, let's move on folks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428689#428689
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: it's been a good run but.......... |
I agree. Let's make nice. The main thing that I like about the pietenpol is
the happy group of folks that go along with it.-=0A=0AIt is a very basic
lightly loaded design that has pretty much proven itself fool proof. -Ev
en after being subjected to-=0Amany, many, design "improvements".-=0A
=0AG=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: dfwplt <jim_markle@m
indspring.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, August 1
8, 2014 3:14 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: it's been a good run but....
mindspring.com>=0A=0AGood points Don.- I'm also concerned that some of us
are clouding up VERY valuable information with not so subtle personal char
acter and moral innuendoes.- Where did all that come from?- And I'm NOT
just referring to William Wynne's statements.- This is a much larger iss
ue than any one person. Up until recently names never WERE mentioned but te
chnical pointers were very clear.- And thank goodness!=0A=0AI rebuilt my
lift struts because someone mentioned how welding aluminum destroyed the st
rength of aluminum.- I didn't need my name mentioned to get the point!!!
- NO ONE on this list is so stupid that they need to be mentioned by name
to apply valuable content!- We're ALL anxious to do that!- That's a bi
g part of why we're here.- We're also here because this is a very special
group of people.- And I can tell you more than one builder I've passed "
suggestions" to in this public forum but you will NOT be able to figure out
who it was.- That's NOT important!=0A=0AAnd all this "you have a delete
key" crap?- Enough already!- How about we PERSONALLY apply a delete key
to some of our typing BEFORE we hit the send button?- TAKE SOME RESPONSI
BILITY TO BE A POSITIVE CONTRIBUTOR TO THIS FORUM!!!- Don't let the fact
that I have a delete key remove YOUR responsibility to participate in this
forum like a gentleman and stay focused on building in the spirit of this w
onderful old Pietenpol design.=0A=0ASome of these messages simply communica
te a misleading message.- Let's- start putting a bit more brain power i
nto WHY we're typing that message and WHAT it really communicates before we
hit the send button.- Then we won't ever have to make that silly "you ha
ve a delete key" statement.- =0A=0AThink about this:- When you type a m
essage, read it back and think how it would sound if you were standing on a
table in the pavilion at Brodhead....would you say something like that in
front of all those people you barely know but respect so much?=0A=0ACome on
folks, in this type of forum there's no stopping vulgar language or "subtl
e" character attacks, but really, where is it getting us?- Take that stuf
f to some other forum, this place is special.- If life has burdened you a
nd today isn't a good day, take some time off from the list!=0A=0AOh, and I
admittedly don't have ANY experience flying a Pietenpol and I've made EVER
Y single mistake possible on my project.- And I have NO more right to pon
tificate than anyone.- But I just HAVE to believe we can each refocus a b
it and get this thing back on a MUCH more positive track.- Let's get back
to the point where we don't EVEN have these conversations about people lea
ving and our focus makes more people want to JOIN the list!- And believe
me, this isn't just about Larry Williams...many other important voices are
now silent and should NOT be!- Let's move beyond THAT debate and move for
ward!=0A=0ALet's take a look at the general attitude around here and stop f
ocusing on individuals.- Please, let's move on folks!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead
this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=
==
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: it's been a good run but.......... |
Jim,
Good points all. Why don't we as a group set out over the next 30 days to post
only building questions, building techniques, and the occasional motivational
photo or video and see where that leads? It may reset the tone back to where
it should be. Maybe even refrain from the "inside jokes" for a bit as that can
tend to put off new guys. Not forever. Just 30 days.
What drew me to this forum was just such informational postings. And if it is in
the archives, just make nice for 30 days and answer the question.
I obviously have no control over the forum. I am merely throwing out an idea. If
you have a better idea, by all means, speak up.
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
USMC, USMCR, ATP
BVD DVD PDQ BBQ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428693#428693
Message 24
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Surprised none of the A flyers have chimed in...
Honestly, none of those mods are really very specific to an A. Installing inserts
is nothing more than line boring, any decent hot rod/performance shop should
be able to do that for you.
Drilling the crank, also not rocket sciency.
Oversized valves, again, decent performance shop.
For an A, you really need a specialist if you need the thing rebabbited, otherwise,
it's typical engine machine work. A standard machine shop or general engine
builder probably can't do it, but the performance shops should be able to
do what you want. Including reboring, honing and reconditioning a crank.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428705#428705
Message 25
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there are a couple of performance engine builders in Toronto which is close. I
can talk to them
thanks
Original Message
From: tools
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 22:26
Reply To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine
Surprised none of the A flyers have chimed in...
Honestly, none of those mods are really very specific to an A. Installing inserts
is nothing more than line boring, any decent hot rod/performance shop should
be able to do that for you.
Drilling the crank, also not rocket sciency.
Oversized valves, again, decent performance shop.
For an A, you really need a specialist if you need the thing rebabbited, otherwise,
it's typical engine machine work. A standard machine shop or general engine
builder probably can't do it, but the performance shops should be able to do
what you want. Including reboring, honing and reconditioning a crank.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428705#428705
Message 26
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Good luck and let us know what you find. At the very least they should be able
to make recommendations and get you started.
You could also try to contact Ken Perkins directly, from Kansas City. He's an
amazing machinist and somewhat of an A guru on Piets. He had a modified balanced
crank for sale at Brodhead. I know he used to make and sell his own design
water pump. Someone here should know his number.
Also, Larry Williams and Dan Helsper are both very active flyers with A's, they
should have some info, could contact them directly. Larry says he's not monitoring
the board, but his account still looks active, a PM should tickle his email
account. Dan's info is here somewhere and he seems to monitor a fair amount.
I did a quick google and came up with JandM machining. They really seem to know
their stuff with vintage engines. There's a fair amount of information out
there for guys who modify and upgrade A. Do keep in mind most of them are going
for horsepower, and you're going for reliability. The two are generally mutually
exclusive. However, craftsmanship is craftsmanship, the skills should
not be.
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428715#428715
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| Subject: | Contact! Magazine all-Piet issue |
[from Contact! editor, Pat Panzera:]
Friends,
Id like to take a moment to let you know that we are about to deliver our special,
85th Pietenpol anniversary issue of CONTACT! Magazine, and to thank all of
you who were at Brodhead or AirVenture and either bought the single issue or
went the distance and subscribed to CONTACT!
And I'd especially like to thank ALL who participated in the making of this issue.
If its wasn't for your generosity of information, we wouldn't have this awesome
issue.
It was our great pleasure to work with these individuals that helped us create
this special 32 page issue filled with Pietenpol articles:
http://tinyurl.com/CM-Issue108
Heres the table of contents:
Dan Helspers Ford A Powered Pietenpol. Oscar Zuniga introduces us to a special
Pietenpol built by Dan Helsper, who did his best to stick to the plans wherever
practical, including the engine.
Ol Tattered Wingtips. Pietenpol patriarch Donald Doc Mosher tells of some of the
inside tips that help fill in the gaps left in the various Pietenpol plan sets
currently available.
Got Gas? Steve Williamson, President of EAA Chapter 1279 based at French Valley
Airport, gives us a little insight into the traps that can arise when building
a plane as a chapter, and details the fuel system in the Pietenpol they built.
1937 Pietenpol Air Camper NX308MB Gary Boothe shares his story of building this
simple yet elegant version of Bernard Pietenpols Corvair-powered Air Camper,
as a tribute to his father.
Greg Bacons Turbo Subaru EA-82T Pietenpol Air Camper Oscar Zuniga presents the
tale of Mountain Piet, a straightforward incarnation designed to be flown from
a field in Colorado with a summertime density altitude approaching 11,000 feet.
Chris Ruschs MitsuPIETshi Air Camper Oscar Zuniga highlights some of the many details
that make this Air Camper unique, including the Mitsubishi forklift engine
that was overhauled before being adapted to its new chore of powering a classic
bird.
11th Annual Alternative Engine Round-Up The fine people from EAA Chapter 1279 have
stepped up and offered to cohost our annual fly-in. This year;s event will
be held on Saturday, September 27th at the French Valley Airport near Temecula
California.
If youre interested in receiving CONTACT! Magazine, please contact us by phone,
e-mail, or just simply drop a check in the mail to us and well enter you into
our database just in time to receive this issue. The link to our subscription
page is at the very bottom of this note.
Please remember that CONTACT! Magazine is a recognized 501(c)3 non-profit, educational
resource. We publish CONTACT! not as a moneymaking endeavor, but rather
as a labor of love- love for experimental aviation.
As previously stated, we just returned from a very successful trip to Brodhead
and Oshkosh. We met some great people with some new products and interesting planes
that well be writing about in upcoming issues and I know you wont want to
miss out.
Additionally, we finally picked up the full-color version of Alternative Engines
Volume 4 from the printer just before I left for OSH. I had a good supply of
them at Brodhead and AirVenture and totally sold out by the third day. While
I was away at the show, my wife Veronica mailed out several hundred to those who
were kind enough to preorder so that we would have the funds to self-publish.
Shes still not done so if you preordered and havent received yours yet, hang
in there a few more weeks. If you havent ordered yours yet, now is the time
to do it!
Weve had the less expensive black and white version in stock for quite a while
now and the are always available. If youd like to know more about the book, please
visit:
www.contactmagazine.com/Vol4tableofcontents.html
Heres an electronic version preview:
http://issuu.com/contact.magazine/docs/alternative_engines_volume_4_previe
Oh! And one last thing...
For the past three years weve been very fortunate to have our CONTACT! Magazine
annual fly-in hosted by the fine people at the Golden West Fly-in at Marysville
California, who rolled out the red carpet for us. But each year the weather
seemed to not want to cooperate. Last year we had a record-shattering heat wave,
and the year before that we had 40 mph winds with low temps to match. Each
of these weather-related issues kept people from showing up, so our numbers have
been slowly declining while they should be rising exponentially. So in the
last issue I made mention of a few places we were considering, one such place
being French Valley Airport (F70), near Temecula California. Not long after that
I received an email from the French Valley EAA chapter (Pietenpol builders!)
offering their full assistance. Long story short, I paid them a visit and they
voted to help us all they can.
So with that, Im pleased to announce that on Saturday September 27, 2014, well
be hosting our 11th annual Alternative Engine (and Experimental aircraft) Round-Up
at French Valley Airport. The event will have a soft start on Friday, Sept
26th, as we receive and welcome arrivals. On Saturday well have a day of educational
forums and lots of cool stuff to see on the ramp. Well have a nice catered
dinner that evening, and the next day well be there to help those who flew
in to get home safely.
None of the details are set in stone (except the date and the place) but we plan
to have easy access from the parking lot to the forums for those who drive in,
and plenty of ground support (including transportation to and from motels)
for those who fly-in. The uncontrolled field has a beautifully paved 6000 x 75
lighted runway, lots of tiedown space, and even a few vacant hangars that can
be rented by the day for those who wish to keep their planes inside overnight.
Additionally, theres a very nice restaurant on the field. For more information,
please visit our website:
http://www.contactmagazine.com/roundup.html
(still a work in progress)
And if youd like to display your plane, present an educational forum, offer assistance
or even display a product, please let me know as soon as possible. You
can reach me best by email:
(Editor@ContactMagazine.com) or by my calling office phone number during normal
business hours: 559-584-3306
We hope to see you there!
Sincerely,
Patrick Panzera, Editor
Editor@ContactMagazine.com
If youd like to follow us on Facebook, please visit:
www.facebook.com/www.CONTACTMagazine
We update that site nearly daily with news and information relevant to experimental
aviation.
and for subscription information please visit:
http://www.contactmagazine.com/subscrip.html
If youd like just the current, all Pietenpol issue, that can be ordered by following
the directions at the bottom of this page:
http://www.contactmagazine.com/backissu.html
Please note that this page hasnt been updated in a little over a year and does
not include all the most recent issues, including the all-Pietenpol issue. Just
be sure to ask for issue #108 when you order.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428717#428717
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