Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 08/19/14


Total Messages Posted: 57



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:13 AM - Re: Re: Engine (Robert Gow)
     2. 03:21 AM - Re: Re: Engine (Scott Knowlton)
     3. 03:27 AM - Re: Re: Engine (Robert Gow)
     4. 04:56 AM - Motivational Pictures (?) (Michael Perez)
     5. 05:36 AM - OUR forum (Douwe Blumberg)
     6. 07:11 AM - Re: OUR forum (Ben Charvet)
     7. 07:55 AM - 3M T-88 glue dispensing gun.... (aerocarjake)
     8. 08:11 AM - Re: 3M T-88 glue dispensing gun.... (Michael Perez)
     9. 08:13 AM - Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle, WA (Brian Rieger)
    10. 08:27 AM - don't give up---keep building, little by little----you'll too have a flying Pietenpol someday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
    11. 08:27 AM - Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle, WA (aerocarjake)
    12. 08:28 AM - Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle, WA (Michael Perez)
    13. 08:28 AM - Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle, WA (AircamperN11MS)
    14. 08:42 AM - Re: don't give up---keep building, little by little----you'll to (aerocarjake)
    15. 09:08 AM - Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Charles N. Campbell)
    16. 09:14 AM - Re: OUR forum (Charles N. Campbell)
    17. 09:25 AM - Re: Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (tools)
    18. 09:33 AM - Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle, WA (tools)
    19. 09:46 AM - Wood bending irony... but great sandpaper source (tools)
    20. 09:48 AM - Re: 3M T-88 glue dispensing gun / spar gluing.... (bdewenter)
    21. 09:50 AM - horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
    22. 09:53 AM - Re: Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Johnkuhfahl)
    23. 10:02 AM - Re: don't give up---keep building, little by little----you'll too have a flying Pietenpol someday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Don.h@wcoil.com)
    24. 10:07 AM - Re: OUR forum (Jack Phillips)
    25. 10:13 AM - Re: 3M T-88 glue dispensing gun / spar gluing.... (aerocarjake)
    26. 10:13 AM - Re: Wood bending irony... but great sandpaper source (AircamperN11MS)
    27. 10:26 AM - Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle, WA (Craig Aho)
    28. 10:27 AM - Re: Wood bending irony... but great sandpaper source (Jack)
    29. 10:31 AM - Re: Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Charles N. Campbell)
    30. 10:37 AM - Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Charles N. Campbell)
    31. 11:29 AM - Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Steven Dortch)
    32. 11:47 AM - Re: 3M T-88 glue dispensing gun.... (Boatright, Jeffrey)
    33. 12:01 PM - Re: Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Steven Dortch)
    34. 12:17 PM - Re: 3M T-88 glue dispensing gun.... (aerocarjake)
    35. 12:30 PM - Re: Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Gary Boothe)
    36. 12:30 PM - Re: Wood bending irony... but great sandpaper source (tools)
    37. 01:45 PM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBSZTogM00gVC04OCBnbHVlIGRpc3BlbnNpbmcg?= =?utf-8?B?Z3VuLi4uLg==? (=?utf-8?B?c3RldmVuLmQuZG9ydGNoQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==?=)
    38. 03:23 PM - Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle, WA (Gary Boothe)
    39. 03:50 PM - Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle, WA (giacummo)
    40. 04:00 PM - Re: Motivational Pictures (?) (jarheadpilot82)
    41. 06:59 PM - Sky Scout useful load (Bill)
    42. 07:50 PM - Re: Sky Scout useful load (tools)
    43. 08:00 PM - latex paint (Braniff1966)
    44. 08:05 PM - Re: Motivational Pictures (?) (Braniff1966)
    45. 08:27 PM - Re: Contact! Magazine all-Piet issue (Ray Krause)
    46. 08:43 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Ray Krause)
    47. 08:49 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Ray Krause)
    48. 08:53 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Ken Bickers)
    49. 09:00 PM - Re: Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Ray Krause)
    50. 09:04 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Gary Boothe)
    51. 09:32 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Ray Krause)
    52. 09:37 PM - Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage (Ray Krause)
    53. 09:53 PM - Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle, WA (Riegerb)
    54. 10:08 PM - Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle, WA (tools)
    55. 11:14 PM - Re: OUR forum (jim hyde)
    56. 11:25 PM - Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle, WA (Braniff1966)
    57. 11:31 PM - Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle, WA (Braniff1966)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:13:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Engine
    From: Robert Gow <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
    yes and I have found a couple of places that specialize in providing the parts I need They also can do the machine work. I'll tryy the contacts you mentioned. Original Message From: tools Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 23:13 Reply To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Good luck and let us know what you find. At the very least they should be able to make recommendations and get you started. You could also try to contact Ken Perkins directly, from Kansas City. He's an amazing machinist and somewhat of an A guru on Piets. He had a modified balanced crank for sale at Brodhead. I know he used to make and sell his own design water pump. Someone here should know his number. Also, Larry Williams and Dan Helsper are both very active flyers with A's, they should have some info, could contact them directly. Larry says he's not monitoring the board, but his account still looks active, a PM should tickle his email account. Dan's info is here somewhere and he seems to monitor a fair amount. I did a quick google and came up with JandM machining. They really seem to know their stuff with vintage engines. There's a fair amount of information out there for guys who modify and upgrade A. Do keep in mind most of them are going for horsepower, and you're going for reliability. The two are generally mutually exclusive. However, craftsmanship is craftsmanship, the skills should not be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428715#428715


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:21:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Engine
    From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k@hotmail.com>
    Ted Koudys just across the border from Buffalo in Beamsville Ontario is a very respected Model A engine rebuilder with a full shop. I can get you his coordinates if you'd like. Scott Knowlton Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 18, 2014, at 10:49 PM, "Robert Gow" <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca> wrote: > > > there are a couple of performance engine builders in Toronto which is close. I can talk to them > > thanks > > Original Message > From: tools > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 22:26 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Reply To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine > > > Surprised none of the A flyers have chimed in... > > Honestly, none of those mods are really very specific to an A. Installing inserts is nothing more than line boring, any decent hot rod/performance shop should be able to do that for you. > > Drilling the crank, also not rocket sciency. > > Oversized valves, again, decent performance shop. > > For an A, you really need a specialist if you need the thing rebabbited, otherwise, it's typical engine machine work. A standard machine shop or general engine builder probably can't do it, but the performance shops should be able to do what you want. Including reboring, honing and reconditioning a crank. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428705#428705 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 03:27:04 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Engine
    From: Robert Gow <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca>
    I can do 411 search Original Message From: Scott Knowlton Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 06:21 Reply To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Ted Koudys just across the border from Buffalo in Beamsville Ontario is a very respected Model A engine rebuilder with a full shop. I can get you his coordinates if you'd like. Scott Knowlton Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 18, 2014, at 10:49 PM, "Robert Gow" <rgow@avionicsdesign.ca> wrote: > > > there are a couple of performance engine builders in Toronto which is close. I can talk to them > > thanks > > Original Message > From: tools > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 22:26 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Reply To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine > > > Surprised none of the A flyers have chimed in... > > Honestly, none of those mods are really very specific to an A. Installing inserts is nothing more than line boring, any decent hot rod/performance shop should be able to do that for you. > > Drilling the crank, also not rocket sciency. > > Oversized valves, again, decent performance shop. > > For an A, you really need a specialist if you need the thing rebabbited, otherwise, it's typical engine machine work. A standard machine shop or general engine builder probably can't do it, but the performance shops should be able to do what you want. Including reboring, honing and reconditioning a crank. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428705#428705 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 04:56:48 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Motivational Pictures (?)
    In another thread, it was suggested that we take time to post motivational pictures/video. Since I have been keeping a mildly tight lid on posting pic tures in the past and I am now very close to completion, I thought I could kick off this picture thread with my own works. The (?) is the subject line is for my pictures...they may not motivate at all...or motivate to go a co mpletely different direction...=0A=0AI decided to use straight exhaust pipe s. I also decided it would be easy just to wrap them both with the heat muf f and take advantage of both hot pipes.- While figuring out how to make t he muff, it occurred to me that it should also be aerodynamic in shape; at least somewhat better than a round pipe standing proudly in the wind. The p ictures show the final design. Two tabs are welded on the inner radii of ea ch pipe and fitted with nut plates. The bottom cover of the muff is riveted to the muff itself and screws on to the exhaust bracket nut plates. The ce nter section of the top cover is removable so that the muff can be slid dow n and off of the exhaust.=0A=0AIn one of the Bingelis' books, he used round holes and a piece of pipe to make bent louvers; I tried this technique for the muff air inlet.- Keeping with the aerodynamic theme, I laid- out t he 3/8" holes in a "V" pattern.- The holes are positioned near the top of the muff and the outlet into the heat box is down low. The thought is to r un the in-coming air through the length of the muff to pick up as much heat as possible.- I have no idea if the holes are big enough, if there are t oo many holes, if being louvered will even work in flight, if there needs t o be some material inside the muff to hold heat, etc., but I have the patte rns on hand and can tweak the design as needed.- I made a "blank" muff fo r the other side.-=0A=0AThe muffs can be seen installed on my first engin e start You Tube video.- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBqgvB5OxVc=0A =0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretakerAero =0AJury Strut Fabrication/Installation=0A


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:36:02 AM PST US
    From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
    Subject: OUR forum
    Hey all, I completely agree that we all need to work to elevate the "tone" of OUR forum. For many, many months now, I've been troubled by the slide from an upbeat, light and informative group to a more negative, nit-picky and sour-sounding one. I know for a fact this is the reason that many of the older members have removed themselves. As has been observed, this is a shame because they are the very people who patiently answered my questions for ten years while I built. It is not necessary to be negative in any way, nor is it necessary to be overly sensitive and response to every single thing posted that we don't like. It is VERY possible to counter bad-advice or incorrect information in a nice way without getting into a personal "p----ssing contest". If someone posts something stupid or dangerous, then we should certainly respond; but we should respond to the information rather than the person. And if they are jerks, and freak out when anyone confronts them or has a different opinion.. Let it go. or take it off list so we don't all have to read twenty emails going back and forth about little issues, grammar mistakes, personality issues etc. Maybe it would be helpful to come up with a list of "List etiquette suggestions" here's my start. 1. NEW BUILDERS "NEWBIES" ARE IMPORTANT, SHOULD BE RESPECTED AND ARE ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS THE LIST EXISTS. WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE PIET BUILDERS. BECAUSE THEY ARE NEW BUILDERS, THEY WILL ASK THE SAME QUESTIONS YOU ASKED WHEN YOU WERE A NEW BUILDER AND THEY WONT KNOW ABOUT, OR MIGHT NOT FIND THE ANSWER EASILY IN THE ARCHIVE. 2. IF DIVERSE OPINIONS ARE HELD, ADDRESS/FOCUS ON THE ISSUE RATHER THAN THE INDIVIDUAL. 3. STAY POSITIVE, HELPFUL AND GENTLEMANLY (GENTLEWOMANLY) 4. BEAR WITH THE ANNOYING PEOPLE, THEY USUALLY DISAPPEAR. IF YOU MUST CONFRONT THEM, DO IT OFF THE LIST 5. IF SOMEONE PERSISTS ON USING OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE, IMMEDIATELY CONTACT MATT DRALLE AND HAVE THEM WARNED/BLOCKED 6. ?? I think we'd all do well to remember grandmas advice, IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. Douwe


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:11:35 AM PST US
    From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: OUR forum
    Amen to that Douwe Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 19, 2014, at 8:34 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net > wrote: > > Hey all, > > I completely agree that we all need to work to elevate the =9Ctone =9D of OUR forum. For many, many months now, I=99ve been troubled b y the slide from an upbeat, light and informative group to a more negative, n it-picky and sour-sounding one. > > I know for a fact this is the reason that many of the older members have r emoved themselves. As has been observed, this is a shame because they are t he very people who patiently answered my questions for ten years while I bui lt. > > It is not necessary to be negative in any way, nor is it necessary to be o verly sensitive and response to every single thing posted that we don=99 t like. It is VERY possible to counter bad-advice or incorrect information i n a nice way without getting into a personal =9Cp----ssing contest =9D. > > If someone posts something stupid or dangerous, then we should certainly r espond; but we should respond to the information rather than the person. An d if they are jerks, and freak out when anyone confronts them or has a diffe rent opinion. Let it go or take it off list so we don =99t all have to read twenty emails going back and forth about little issues , grammar mistakes, personality issues etc. > > Maybe it would be helpful to come up with a list of =9CList etiquett e suggestions=9D here=99s my start. > > 1. NEW BUILDERS =9CNEWBIES=9D ARE IMPORTANT, SHOULD BE R ESPECTED AND ARE ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS THE LIST EXISTS. WE WANT TO ENCOUR AGE PIET BUILDERS. BECAUSE THEY ARE NEW BUILDERS, THEY WILL ASK THE SAME QU ESTIONS YOU ASKED WHEN YOU WERE A NEW BUILDER AND THEY WONT KNOW ABOUT, OR M IGHT NOT FIND THE ANSWER EASILY IN THE ARCHIVE. > 2. IF DIVERSE OPINIONS ARE HELD, ADDRESS/FOCUS ON THE ISSUE RATHER T HAN THE INDIVIDUAL. > 3. STAY POSITIVE, HELPFUL AND GENTLEMANLY (GENTLEWOMANLY) > 4. BEAR WITH THE ANNOYING PEOPLE, THEY USUALLY DISAPPEAR. IF YOU MU ST CONFRONT THEM, DO IT OFF THE LIST > 5. IF SOMEONE PERSISTS ON USING OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE, IMMEDIATELY CONT ACT MATT DRALLE AND HAVE THEM WARNED/BLOCKED > 6. ?? > > I think we=99d all do well to remember grandmas advice, IF YOU DON =99T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY, DON=99T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. > > Douwe > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:55:02 AM PST US
    Subject: 3M T-88 glue dispensing gun....
    From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
    Hello Good Piet-Ple, Well things are back on track with my 1931 Pietenpol project - after having taken a few brief steps "backwards" by replacing the two rear spars. The first image shows the previous and current spar sections. The spar on the left was the one the original wing builder installed. (I bought my wings from another builder who had started a Pietenpol project.) But that particular spar was not up to the fine quality of the rest of his wing construction. The "cup" in the spar section in particular was making it difficult to integrate the spar with the wing center-section, and wing strut fittings. So I replaced both rear spars. (See other writings for my spar/router screw-up adventure.) I now have a new set of routed rear spars that are glued in place. I used a new 3M "dispensing gun" to apply the aircraft-grade structural T-88 epoxy. The special tips mix the resin/hardener in the tip itself as you dispense it from the gun - which eliminates all the mixing/mess of using epoxy in from large bottles. Depending on the aspect of the project, this gun may be more effective than glue from large bottles mixed in the traditional manner. It was certainly more expensive to use these special tubes, but it worked really well for gluing the spars. Next step in the project is to get back to joining these wing sections to the center-section spars - the step I was beginning before I chose to replace the spars. I feel good about the choice to do so - even considering the setbacks. -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428742#428742 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_spar_comparison_152.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_spar_fit_173.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_spar_gluing_202.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_spar_gluing_2_890.jpg


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:11:15 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: 3M T-88 glue dispensing gun....
    Looks nice Jake.- That feeling of being satisfied after having to do re-w ork is a good thing...even though the process of doing the rework may not b e so gratifying.=0A=0AI really like the wood wheel landing gear in photo tw o...nice and light weight.=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, switch seats =0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AJury Strut Fabrication/Installation


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:13:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle,
    WA
    From: Brian Rieger <rieger.brian12@gmail.com>
    Hello, My name is Brian, I'm a pilot and aero engineer, and am currently building a Pietenpol Air Camper in Seattle. Here's a link to my photo log of the build: http://riegerpietenpol.tumblr.com/ <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> I have browsed this list-serve for a little while and have already learned a ton. I hope to contribute to this community in some way while I continue to learn and also find local Pietenpol flyers / builders. Brian


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:27:18 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: don't give up---keep building, little by little----you'll
    too have a flying Pietenpol someday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here is to the good, good people on this list who are sticking with it, thi nking about it, maybe just this summer have for the very first time heard about this little airplane called the Pi etenpol. Welcome to the list---we're here to help if we can. The archives/search en gine are a great resource and if you haven't see the zillion photos that Chris Tracy has complied on his http://westcoastpiet.com/ site, go there for a bunch of ideas, inspiration, and photos. Good stuff. Just disregard and delete any posts that have negative or harsh comments--- we are not about that. This is a good group and this is a good, honest, wonderful little affordable airplane. Here's two photos that will give you all the reasons you need to keep build ing OR to start building. Don't let the turkeys get you down---you've got an airplane to build and eventually FLY.....and t hen to give rides and smiles that come with those rides. Here's proof. Go for it. Keep the faith! Keep building! Mike C. Ohio


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:27:57 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle,
    WA
    From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
    Welcome Brian.... Would be great to see and discuss your project. I am building a Pietenpol in Issaquah. ( flight.jake@gmail.com ) Jake -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428749#428749


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:28:45 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle,
    WA You are well on your way Brian. Welcome to the list. How long has it taken you to get this far in your build?=0A=0A-=0AIf God is your co-pilot, swit ch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AJury Strut Fabrication/Installatio n


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:28:57 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle,
    WA
    From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
    Brian, Very nice work. It's amazing how fast a person can build up the fuse to the boat stage. Great builders log too. Have fun with it because the building will be over before you know it. Then come the building withdrawals. Oh, maybe that was too soon to say. Keep up the good work. Cheers, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428750#428750


    Message 14


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    Time: 08:42:39 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: don't give up---keep building, little by little----you'll
    to
    From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
    Points taken to heart Mike - thanks.............! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428753#428753


    Message 15


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    Time: 09:08:26 AM PST US
    Subject: Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924@gmail.com>
    On the tail plan sheet there is a note, "Screw stabilizer to fuselage, after covering, with 1-3/4" screws. SHIM BETWEEN LEADING EDGE AND LONGERON." The stab plan shows a piece of 3/16" plywood on the leading edge where the stab attaches to the fuselage. I already have a piece of 1/8" plywood to fill the gap between the rounded part of the leading edge and the 1/2" X 3/4" part of the leading edge. Now, should I shim the stab with a 1/16' shim to make up the 3/16" shown on the plan or is there a thicker shim in addition to the 3/16" piece of plywood. The plan doesn't cover that. OK some of you guys who are already flying, what did you do? Chuck


    Message 16


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    Time: 09:14:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: OUR forum
    From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924@gmail.com>
    Douwe, You are SOoooooo right (correct). C On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Douwe Blumberg <douweblumberg@earthlink.ne t > wrote: > Hey all, > > > I completely agree that we all need to work to elevate the =9Ctone =9D of OUR > forum. For many, many months now, I=99ve been troubled by the slid e from an > upbeat, light and informative group to a more negative, nit-picky and > sour-sounding one. > > > I know for a fact this is the reason that many of the older members have > removed themselves. As has been observed, this is a shame because they a re > the very people who patiently answered my questions for ten years while I > built. > > > It is not necessary to be negative in any way, nor is it necessary to be > overly sensitive and response to every single thing posted that we don =99t > like. It is VERY possible to counter bad-advice or incorrect information > in a nice way without getting into a personal =9Cp----ssing contest =9D. > > > If someone posts something stupid or dangerous, then we should certainly > respond; but we should respond to the information rather than the person. > And if they are jerks, and freak out when anyone confronts them or has a > different opinion. Let it go or take it off list so we don=99t all have to > read twenty emails going back and forth about little issues, grammar > mistakes, personality issues etc. > > > Maybe it would be helpful to come up with a list of =9CList etiquet te > suggestions=9D here=99s my start. > > > 1. NEW BUILDERS =9CNEWBIES=9D ARE IMPORTANT, SHOULD BE RESPECTED AND > ARE ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS THE LIST EXISTS. WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE PIET > BUILDERS. BECAUSE THEY ARE NEW BUILDERS, THEY WILL ASK THE SAME QUESTION S > YOU ASKED WHEN YOU WERE A NEW BUILDER AND THEY WONT KNOW ABOUT, OR MIGHT > NOT FIND THE ANSWER EASILY IN THE ARCHIVE. > > 2. IF DIVERSE OPINIONS ARE HELD, ADDRESS/FOCUS ON THE ISSUE RATHER > THAN THE INDIVIDUAL. > > 3. STAY POSITIVE, HELPFUL AND GENTLEMANLY (GENTLEWOMANLY) > > 4. BEAR WITH THE ANNOYING PEOPLE, THEY USUALLY DISAPPEAR. IF YOU > MUST CONFRONT THEM, DO IT OFF THE LIST > > 5. IF SOMEONE PERSISTS ON USING OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE, IMMEDIATELY > CONTACT MATT DRALLE AND HAVE THEM WARNED/BLOCKED > > 6. ?? > > > I think we=99d all do well to remember grandmas advice, IF YOU DON =99T HAVE > ANYTHING NICE TO SAY, DON=99T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. > > > Douwe > > > * > =========== .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =========== =========== om/contribution> =========== > > * > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 09:25:54 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    First, notice it says to screw the stab to the fuse. Most people through bolt. If you do through bolt, use AN3 (or smaller), so as not to compromise the longerons, or extend the scarf plate there to overlap where the through bolts are. With all the tail bracing, that fastener doesn't need to do very much on it's own, screws as mentioned really are good enough. I don't have a shim at all there. It bothered me at first, but think about it. The rest of the stab is just cantilevered into the wind, so that bit there above the fuse isn't gonna hurt a thing. Insofar as 1/8 or 3/16... it really depends on how much gap you have there, it really can vary quite a bit with plywood not really being solid imperial dimensions. Also, how much sanding you do, layers of fabric... if you use a shim, cut to fit. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428758#428758


    Message 18


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    Time: 09:33:22 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle,
    WA
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    Aero engineer, Seattle... c'mon Brian... spill the beans... We're dying to see some honeycomb used somewhere in a Piet! Have ya been to or planning on Brodhead? Been up in a Piet yet? I gave THREE rides this year to guys WELL along in a Piet project (ok, one was already DONE, legal to fly!) and had never even been in one. Surely we can help ya find someone fairly local or on one of your regular travel routes. Welcome aboard! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428759#428759


    Message 19


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    Time: 09:46:41 AM PST US
    Subject: Wood bending irony... but great sandpaper source
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    I quit buying from catalogs years ago, but unfortunately still get some junk snail and email. Haven't gotten anything from this company in years (well, once in the last 10, just a few months ago, an 18' long sanding belt...). TODAY I got this junk email, about wood bending. Kinda funny in light of the recent discussions on wood bending. Probably pretty good info, albeit a bit much for capstrips. However, and more appropriately, THIS IS THE COMPANY if you need sandpaper, OF ANY KIND. Simply the best I've EVER used. They sell a "cutoff assortment" of stuff. I got one 15 years ago and haven't used a third yet. You just can't wear it out. Works GREAT for all sorts of sanding blocks and such. Great EAA chapter group buy or something, divy it up amongst friends. DO NOT GET what they call "coarse" sandpaper, they're talking like 40 grit! You can sand jagged cement with the stuff, not much application for hand use! You can also get custom belts for no more per inch than anything "standard". That 18' belt I got was thirty bucks. Not bad considering one about 4' long is about eight bucks from big box retailers. I get custom discs from them, no more than normal pricing. I have a 15" disc sander (really not that odd, but not gonna find that size very many places). I have other friends who get 24 and 30 inch discs from them! Also custom "pieces". I got a 12 x 36" piece of wet/dry for a piece of plate glass I have to lap the bottom of planes and plane irons. Been using it for 15 years. Think it was fifteen bucks or so. All the gadget woodworking stuff... yoyo (you're on your own!). Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428761#428761


    Message 20


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    Time: 09:48:02 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 3M T-88 glue dispensing gun / spar gluing....
    From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse@woh.rr.com>
    Jake, Nice! Can I ask what the front spar dimension is - as it seems to be full thickness without any routing. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428762#428762


    Message 21


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    Time: 09:50:32 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    One way of securing the front of the horizontal stabilizer to the upper lon gerons. [cid:image001.jpg@01CFBBAC.1D3EFCF0] [cid:image002.jpg@01CFBBAC.1D3EFCF 0]


    Message 22


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    Time: 09:53:48 AM PST US
    From: Johnkuhfahl <kuhlcouper@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    For Steve-- here we go again-- got that piece I gave you-- I never did see t hat on the plans... Sent from my iPad On Aug 19, 2014, at 11:07 AM, "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924@gma il.com> wrote: > On the tail plan sheet there is a note, "Screw stabilizer to fuselage, aft er covering, with 1-3/4" screws. SHIM BETWEEN LEADING EDGE AND LONGERON." T he stab plan shows a piece of 3/16" plywood on the leading edge where the st ab attaches to the fuselage. I already have a piece of 1/8" plywood to fill the gap between the rounded part of the leading edge and the 1/2" X 3/4" pa rt of the leading edge. Now, should I shim the stab with a 1/16' shim to ma ke up the 3/16" shown on the plan or is there a thicker shim in addition to t he 3/16" piece of plywood. The plan doesn't cover that. OK some of you guy s who are already flying, what did you do? Chuck > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >


    Message 23


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    Time: 10:02:16 AM PST US
    From: "Don.h@wcoil.com" <don.h@wcoil.com>
    Subject: Re: don't give up---keep building, little by little----you'll
    too have a flying Pietenpol someday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Looks like a nice co-pilot and some nice fotos can i use it for a screen saver ? w8zrz On 8/19/2014 11:26 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] wrote: > > Here is to the good, good people on this list who are sticking with > it, thinking about it, maybe just this summer > > have for the very first time heard about this little airplane called > the Pietenpol. > > Welcome to the list---we're here to help if we can. The > archives/search engine are a great resource > > and if you haven't see the zillion photos that Chris Tracy has > complied on his http://westcoastpiet.com/ site, > > go there for a bunch of ideas, inspiration, and photos. Good stuff. > > Just disregard and delete any posts that have negative or harsh > comments---we are not about that. This is a good group > > and this is a good, honest, wonderful little affordable airplane. > > Here's two photos that will give you all the reasons you need to keep > building OR to start building. Don't let the turkeys > > get you down---you've got an airplane to build and eventually > FLY.....and then to give rides and smiles that come with those > > rides. Here's proof. Go for it. Keep the faith! Keep building! > > Mike C. > > Ohio >


    Message 24


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    Time: 10:07:13 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
    Subject: OUR forum
    I agree whole-heartedly, Douwe. Remember that the reason the FAA allows Experimental Aviation to exist is for Education and Recreation. This list should serve the same purpose. I suppose I'm one of the "old-timers" on this list, in that I was on the original Pietenpol list that Steve Eldridge created and then transitioned to Matronics, back about 1997. In that time I've seen many builders come and go, some real screwballs (Fisherman Ray comes to mind), and have gained a lot of really good friends that I never would have met otherwise. There's an awful lot of good information on this list, with the occasional piece of bad information. It doesn't take too long to figure out who is worth listening to, and who is not. I like the suggestion that before hitting "Send" every lister who has written a post should imagine themselves expounding on this topic at a forum at Brodhead, or Oshkosh. I've presented forums (fora?) at both and believe me, it is a humbling experience. Now, all you builders get off your computers and back to the workshop and make some sawdust! Jack Phillips NX899JP "Icarus Plummet" Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: OUR forum Hey all, I completely agree that we all need to work to elevate the "tone" of OUR forum. For many, many months now, I've been troubled by the slide from an upbeat, light and informative group to a more negative, nit-picky and sour-sounding one. I know for a fact this is the reason that many of the older members have removed themselves. As has been observed, this is a shame because they are the very people who patiently answered my questions for ten years while I built. It is not necessary to be negative in any way, nor is it necessary to be overly sensitive and response to every single thing posted that we don't like. It is VERY possible to counter bad-advice or incorrect information in a nice way without getting into a personal "p----ssing contest". If someone posts something stupid or dangerous, then we should certainly respond; but we should respond to the information rather than the person. And if they are jerks, and freak out when anyone confronts them or has a different opinion.. Let it go. or take it off list so we don't all have to read twenty emails going back and forth about little issues, grammar mistakes, personality issues etc. Maybe it would be helpful to come up with a list of "List etiquette suggestions" here's my start. 1. NEW BUILDERS "NEWBIES" ARE IMPORTANT, SHOULD BE RESPECTED AND ARE ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS THE LIST EXISTS. WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE PIET BUILDERS. BECAUSE THEY ARE NEW BUILDERS, THEY WILL ASK THE SAME QUESTIONS YOU ASKED WHEN YOU WERE A NEW BUILDER AND THEY WONT KNOW ABOUT, OR MIGHT NOT FIND THE ANSWER EASILY IN THE ARCHIVE. 2. IF DIVERSE OPINIONS ARE HELD, ADDRESS/FOCUS ON THE ISSUE RATHER THAN THE INDIVIDUAL. 3. STAY POSITIVE, HELPFUL AND GENTLEMANLY (GENTLEWOMANLY) 4. BEAR WITH THE ANNOYING PEOPLE, THEY USUALLY DISAPPEAR. IF YOU MUST CONFRONT THEM, DO IT OFF THE LIST 5. IF SOMEONE PERSISTS ON USING OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE, IMMEDIATELY CONTACT MATT DRALLE AND HAVE THEM WARNED/BLOCKED 6. ?? I think we'd all do well to remember grandmas advice, IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. Douwe


    Message 25


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    Time: 10:13:40 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 3M T-88 glue dispensing gun / spar gluing....
    From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
    Yes, the front spars have no routing. I do not have the height number, but they are about 0.9" thick. My rear spars are a full 1.0" and were routed with 1/4" deep pockets. -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428768#428768


    Message 26


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    Time: 10:13:52 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wood bending irony... but great sandpaper source
    From: "AircamperN11MS" <Scott.liefeld@lacity.org>
    Tools, Great to know that we can buy sandpaper that doesn't wear out and odd sizes can be had. I like it. One question though, Who or where is this place? Maybe you said but I don't see it. Maybe (bad reading comprehension)that's why I didn't do so well in school when I was a kid? Hope you don't have sore ribs after this poking. -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428769#428769


    Message 27


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    Time: 10:26:25 AM PST US
    From: Craig Aho <soar561@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) -
    Seattle, WA Hello Brian in Seattle=2C My name is Craig Aho and have built and currently building an Air Camper. If you ever feel like some local input feel free t o contact me. 425-778-7650 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - S eattle=2C WA From: rieger.brian12@gmail.com Hello=2C My name is Brian=2C I'm a pilot and aero engineer=2C and am currently build ing a Pietenpol Air Camper in Seattle. Here's a link to my photo log of the build: http://riegerpietenpol.tumblr.com/ =0A I have browsed this list-serve for a little while and have already learned a ton. I hope to contribute to this community in some way while I continue to learn and also find local Pietenpol flyers / builders. =0A Brian =0A =0A =0A =0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ============0A =0A


    Message 28


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    Time: 10:27:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wood bending irony... but great sandpaper source
    From: Jack <jack@textors.com>
    Tools, maybe I missed it... The name? Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > On Aug 19, 2014, at 11:46 AM, "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I quit buying from catalogs years ago, but unfortunately still get some junk snail and email. > > Haven't gotten anything from this company in years (well, once in the last 10, just a few months ago, an 18' long sanding belt...). > > TODAY I got this junk email, about wood bending. Kinda funny in light of the recent discussions on wood bending. Probably pretty good info, albeit a bit much for capstrips. > > However, and more appropriately, THIS IS THE COMPANY if you need sandpaper, OF ANY KIND. Simply the best I've EVER used. > > They sell a "cutoff assortment" of stuff. I got one 15 years ago and haven't used a third yet. You just can't wear it out. Works GREAT for all sorts of sanding blocks and such. Great EAA chapter group buy or something, divy it up amongst friends. DO NOT GET what they call "coarse" sandpaper, they're talking like 40 grit! You can sand jagged cement with the stuff, not much application for hand use! > > You can also get custom belts for no more per inch than anything "standard". That 18' belt I got was thirty bucks. Not bad considering one about 4' long is about eight bucks from big box retailers. > > I get custom discs from them, no more than normal pricing. I have a 15" disc sander (really not that odd, but not gonna find that size very many places). I have other friends who get 24 and 30 inch discs from them! > > Also custom "pieces". I got a 12 x 36" piece of wet/dry for a piece of plate glass I have to lap the bottom of planes and plane irons. Been using it for 15 years. Think it was fifteen bucks or so. > > All the gadget woodworking stuff... yoyo (you're on your own!). > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428761#428761 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 29


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    Time: 10:31:34 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924@gmail.com>
    So, John, how much did you shim between the horiz stab and the fuselage? You gave a response but didn't say how much shim there was. Chuck On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Johnkuhfahl <kuhlcouper@gmail.com> wrote: > For Steve-- here we go again-- got that piece I gave you-- I never did see > that on the plans... > > Sent from my iPad > > On Aug 19, 2014, at 11:07 AM, "Charles N. Campbell" < > charlescampbell1924@gmail.com> wrote: > > On the tail plan sheet there is a note, "Screw stabilizer to fuselage, > after covering, with 1-3/4" screws. SHIM BETWEEN LEADING EDGE AND > LONGERON." The stab plan shows a piece of 3/16" plywood on the leading > edge where the stab attaches to the fuselage. I already have a piece of > 1/8" plywood to fill the gap between the rounded part of the leading edge > and the 1/2" X 3/4" part of the leading edge. Now, should I shim the stab > with a 1/16' shim to make up the 3/16" shown on the plan or is there a > thicker shim in addition to the 3/16" piece of plywood. The plan doesn't > cover that. OK some of you guys who are already flying, what did you do? > Chuck > > * > > ================================== > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> > ================================== > cs.com <http://cs.com> > ================================== > matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution> > ================================== > > * > > * > > > * > >


    Message 30


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    Time: 10:37:04 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    From: "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924@gmail.com>
    Michael, That is exactly how I'm attaching the stabilizer to the fuselage, but I still don't know how much of a shim I need to put between the two. Chuck On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote: > One way of securing the front of the horizontal stabilizer to the upper > longerons. > >


    Message 31


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    Time: 11:29:57 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
    I will measure the shim for my plane when I get home. Steve D On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Charles N. Campbell < charlescampbell1924@gmail.com> wrote: > Michael, That is exactly how I'm attaching the stabilizer to the fuselage, > but I still don't know how much of a shim I need to put between the two. > Chuck > > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage > Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote: > >> One way of securing the front of the horizontal stabilizer to the upper >> longerons. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D


    Message 32


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    Time: 11:47:35 AM PST US
    From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" <jeffboatright@emory.edu>
    Subject: Re: 3M T-88 glue dispensing gun....
    SGkgSmFrZSwNCg0KRG9lcyB0aGF0IGd1biBwZXJtaXQgc3RvcmFnZSBvZiB0aGUgdW51c2VkIHBv cnRpb25zIG9mIHRoZSByZXNpbiBhbmQgaGFyZGVuZXI/IEFuZCB3aGVyZSBkaWQgeW91IHB1cmNo YXNlIGl0LCBwYXJ0IG51bWJlciwgY29zdCwgZXRjPw0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQoNCkplZmYNCg0KLS0N Cg0KSmVmZnJleSBILiBCb2F0cmlnaHQsIFBoRCwgRkFSVk8NClByb2Zlc3NvciBvZiBPcGh0aGFs bW9sb2d5DQpFbW9yeSBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IFNjaG9vbCBvZiBNZWRpY2luZQ0KDQpGcm9tOiBhZXJv Y2FyamFrZSA8ZmxpZ2h0Lmpha2VAZ21haWwuY29tPG1haWx0bzpmbGlnaHQuamFrZUBnbWFpbC5j b20+Pg0KUmVwbHktVG86ICJwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPG1haWx0bzpwaWV0 ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPiIgPHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb208 bWFpbHRvOnBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+Pg0KRGF0ZTogVHVlc2RheSwgQXVn dXN0IDE5LCAyMDE0IGF0IDEwOjU0IEFNDQpUbzogInBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5j b208bWFpbHRvOnBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+IiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RA bWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4+DQpTdWJq ZWN0OiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogM00gVC04OCBnbHVlIGRpc3BlbnNpbmcgZ3VuLi4uLg0KDQot LT4gUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6ICJhZXJvY2FyamFrZSIgPGZsaWdo dC5qYWtlQGdtYWlsLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86ZmxpZ2h0Lmpha2VAZ21haWwuY29tPj4NCg0KSGVsbG8g R29vZCBQaWV0LVBsZSwNCg0K4oCmSQ0KdXNlZCBhIG5ldyAzTSAiZGlzcGVuc2luZyBndW4iIHRv IGFwcGx5IHRoZSBhaXJjcmFmdC1ncmFkZSBzdHJ1Y3R1cmFsDQpULTg4IGVwb3h5LiBUaGUgc3Bl Y2lhbCB0aXBzIG1peCB0aGUgcmVzaW4vaGFyZGVuZXIgaW4gdGhlIHRpcCBpdHNlbGYNCmFzIHlv dSBkaXNwZW5zZSBpdCBmcm9tIHRoZSBndW4gLSB3aGljaCBlbGltaW5hdGVzIGFsbCB0aGUgbWl4 aW5nL21lc3MNCm9mIHVzaW5nIGVwb3h5IGluIGZyb20gbGFyZ2UgYm90dGxlcy4gRGVwZW5kaW5n IG9uIHRoZSBhc3BlY3Qgb2YgdGhlDQpwcm9qZWN0LCB0aGlzIGd1biBtYXkgYmUgbW9yZSBlZmZl Y3RpdmUgdGhhbiBnbHVlIGZyb20gbGFyZ2UgYm90dGxlcw0KbWl4ZWQgaW4gdGhlIHRyYWRpdGlv bmFsIG1hbm5lci4gSXQgd2FzIGNlcnRhaW5seSBtb3JlIGV4cGVuc2l2ZSB0bw0KdXNlIHRoZXNl IHNwZWNpYWwgdHViZXMsIGJ1dCBpdCB3b3JrZWQgcmVhbGx5IHdlbGwgZm9yIGdsdWluZyB0aGUN CnNwYXJzLg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQpUaGlzIGUtbWFp bCBtZXNzYWdlIChpbmNsdWRpbmcgYW55IGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzKSBpcyBmb3IgdGhlIHNvbGUgdXNl IG9mDQp0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50KHMpIGFuZCBtYXkgY29udGFpbiBjb25maWRlbnRp YWwgYW5kIHByaXZpbGVnZWQNCmluZm9ybWF0aW9uLiBJZiB0aGUgcmVhZGVyIG9mIHRoaXMgbWVz c2FnZSBpcyBub3QgdGhlIGludGVuZGVkDQpyZWNpcGllbnQsIHlvdSBhcmUgaGVyZWJ5IG5vdGlm aWVkIHRoYXQgYW55IGRpc3NlbWluYXRpb24sIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbg0Kb3IgY29weWluZyBvZiB0 aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgKGluY2x1ZGluZyBhbnkgYXR0YWNobWVudHMpIGlzIHN0cmljdGx5DQpwcm9o aWJpdGVkLg0KDQpJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSByZWNlaXZlZCB0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgaW4gZXJyb3IsIHBs ZWFzZSBjb250YWN0DQp0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGJ5IHJlcGx5IGUtbWFpbCBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBkZXN0 cm95IGFsbCBjb3BpZXMgb2YgdGhlDQpvcmlnaW5hbCBtZXNzYWdlIChpbmNsdWRpbmcgYXR0YWNo bWVudHMpLg0K


    Message 33


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    Time: 12:01:08 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
    This is Steve D. When I got the plane there was THE SHIM and I questioned John and the group on if it was needed. The learned consensus was yes, it is needed. It is on the plans just as a note that says "Shim between longerons and leading edge." Chuck do a simple google search using "Matronics Pietenpol and Shim" and you can read the whole discussion. When I get home I will measure the one I have. Steve D On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Charles N. Campbell < charlescampbell1924@gmail.com> wrote: > So, John, how much did you shim between the horiz stab and the fuselage? > You gave a response but didn't say how much shim there was. Chuck > > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Johnkuhfahl <kuhlcouper@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> For Steve-- here we go again-- got that piece I gave you-- I never did >> see that on the plans... >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Aug 19, 2014, at 11:07 AM, "Charles N. Campbell" < >> charlescampbell1924@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On the tail plan sheet there is a note, "Screw stabilizer to >> fuselage, after covering, with 1-3/4" screws. SHIM BETWEEN LEADING EDGE >> AND LONGERON." The stab plan shows a piece of 3/16" plywood on the leading >> edge where the stab attaches to the fuselage. I already have a piece of >> 1/8" plywood to fill the gap between the rounded part of the leading edge >> and the 1/2" X 3/4" part of the leading edge. Now, should I shim the stab >> with a 1/16' shim to make up the 3/16" shown on the plan or is there a >> thicker shim in addition to the 3/16" piece of plywood. The plan doesn't >> cover that. OK some of you guys who are already flying, what did you do? >> Chuck >> >> * >> >> ========= >> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> >> ========= >> cs.com <http://cs.com/> >> ========= >> matronics.com/contribution <http://matronics.com/contribution> >> ========= >> >> * >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> >> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> >> >> * >> >> > * > > > * > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D


    Message 34


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    Time: 12:17:42 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 3M T-88 glue dispensing gun....
    From: "aerocarjake" <flight.jake@gmail.com>
    Jeff, yes the tips themselves can be removed and discarded, then there is a cap that goes on the tubes to save the unused contents for another time. You can buy extra tips or you can dispense the resin/hardener without a tip and mix it in the traditional way. The extra tips are a couple bucks each. I buy the 50 mL cartridges of T-88 at "Woodcraft" here in Seattle and they're about $12.50 each. T-88 is made by System Three: http://www.systemthree.com/store/pc/T-88-c27.htm?gclid=COmk1a2CoMACFeg7MgodgXcAvQ System Three also makes an applicator but I like the 3M one better - the reviews on-line give the 3M version five stars. However, 3M is REALLY, REALLY proud of it so it cost (brace yourself) $96. I only plan to need one for my lifetime so what the heck....?!?!? (The System Three gun is only $25) http://www.systemthree.com/store/pc/50mL-Cartridge-Gun-25p231.htm Jake -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428783#428783


    Message 35


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    Time: 12:30:25 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    I did not shim, but eventually tweaked the horizontal leading edges up. Keep in mind, if you shim the horizontal stab, you may have to adjust the vert s tab mounting brackets, so that the rudder still aligns with the tail post. Gary NX308MB Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 19, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> wr ote: > > This is Steve D. When I got the plane there was THE SHIM and I questioned J ohn and the group on if it was needed. The learned consensus was yes, it is n eeded. It is on the plans just as a note that says "Shim between longerons a nd leading edge." > > Chuck do a simple google search using "Matronics Pietenpol and Shim" and y ou can read the whole discussion. When I get home I will measure the one I h ave. > > Steve D > >> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Charles N. Campbell <charlescampbell192 4@gmail.com> wrote: >> So, John, how much did you shim between the horiz stab and the fuselage? You gave a response but didn't say how much shim there was. Chuck >> >> >>> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Johnkuhfahl <kuhlcouper@gmail.com> wro te: >>> For Steve-- here we go again-- got that piece I gave you-- I never did s ee that on the plans... >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Aug 19, 2014, at 11:07 AM, "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924 @gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On the tail plan sheet there is a note, "Screw stabilizer to fuselage, a fter covering, with 1-3/4" screws. SHIM BETWEEN LEADING EDGE AND LONGERON." The stab plan shows a piece of 3/16" plywood on the leading edge where the stab attaches to the fuselage. I already have a piece of 1/8" plywood to f ill the gap between the rounded part of the leading edge and the 1/2" X 3/4" part of the leading edge. Now, should I shim the stab with a 1/16' shim to make up the 3/16" shown on the plan or is there a thicker shim in addition t o the 3/16" piece of plywood. The plan doesn't cover that. OK some of you g uys who are already flying, what did you do? Chuck >>>> >>>> >>>> ========= >>>> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>>> ========= >>>> cs.com >>>> ========= >>>> matronics.com/contribution >>>> ========= >>>> >>> >>> >>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >> >> >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> ttp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >


    Message 36


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    Time: 12:30:33 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wood bending irony... but great sandpaper source
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    Oh... would help if I included the link, huh?! http://www.woodworkingshop.com/html/em_25taunton2.html Try that! It's Klingspor, of the sanding company. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428785#428785


    Message 37


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    Time: 01:45:03 PM PST US
    From: "=?utf-8?B?c3RldmVuLmQuZG9ydGNoQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ==?=" <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
    Subject: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBSZTogM00gVC04OCBnbHVlIGRpc3BlbnNpbmcg?=
    =?utf-8?B?Z3VuLi4uLg==? Tm8gaGFyYm9yIGZyZWlnaHQgdmVyc2lvbiwgMyB0byBhIHBhY2sgZm9yICQ2PyBPciAkMi41MCB3 aXRoIGEgY291cG9uLiBMb2wKCkZyb20gbXkgSFRDIFNlbnNhdGlvbiA0RyBvbiBULU1vYmlsZS4g VGhlIGZpcnN0IG5hdGlvbndpZGUgNEcgbmV0d29yawoKLS0tLS0gUmVwbHkgbWVzc2FnZSAtLS0t LQpGcm9tOiAiYWVyb2Nhcmpha2UiIDxmbGlnaHQuamFrZUBnbWFpbC5jb20+ClRvOiA8cGlldGVu cG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4KU3ViamVjdDogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiAzTSBU LTg4IGdsdWUgZGlzcGVuc2luZyBndW4uLi4uCkRhdGU6IFR1ZSwgQXVnIDE5LCAyMDE0IDI6MTUg cG0KCgotLT4gUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6ICJhZXJvY2FyamFrZSIg PGZsaWdodC5qYWtlQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4KCkplZmYsIHllcyB0aGUgdGlwcyB0aGVtc2VsdmVzIGNh biBiZSByZW1vdmVkIGFuZCBkaXNjYXJkZWQsIHRoZW4gdGhlcmUgaXMgYSBjYXAgdGhhdCBnb2Vz IG9uIHRoZSB0dWJlcyB0byBzYXZlIHRoZSB1bnVzZWQgY29udGVudHMgZm9yIGFub3RoZXIgdGlt ZS4gCgpZb3UgY2FuIGJ1eSBleHRyYSB0aXBzIG9yIHlvdSBjYW4gZGlzcGVuc2UgdGhlIHJlc2lu L2hhcmRlbmVyIHdpdGhvdXQgYSB0aXAgYW5kIG1peCBpdCBpbiB0aGUgdHJhZGl0aW9uYWwgd2F5 LiBUaGUgZXh0cmEgdGlwcyBhcmUgYSBjb3VwbGUgYnVja3MgZWFjaC4gSSBidXkgdGhlIDUwIG1M IGNhcnRyaWRnZXMgb2YgVC04OCBhdCAiV29vZGNyYWZ0IiBoZXJlIGluIFNlYXR0bGUgYW5kIHRo ZXkncmUgYWJvdXQgJDEyLjUwIGVhY2guIAoKVC04OCBpcyBtYWRlIGJ5IFN5c3RlbSBUaHJlZToK aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zeXN0ZW10aHJlZS5jb20vc3RvcmUvcGMvVC04OC1jMjcuaHRtP2djbGlkPUNP bWsxYTJDb01BQ0ZlZzdNZ29kZ1hjQXZRCgpTeXN0ZW0gVGhyZWUgYWxzbyBtYWtlcyBhbiBhcHBs aWNhdG9yIGJ1dCBJIGxpa2UgdGhlIDNNIG9uZSBiZXR0ZXIgLSB0aGUgcmV2aWV3cyBvbi1saW5l IGdpdmUgdGhlIDNNIHZlcnNpb24gZml2ZSBzdGFycy4gIEhvd2V2ZXIsIDNNIGlzIFJFQUxMWSwg UkVBTExZIHByb3VkIG9mIGl0IHNvIGl0IGNvc3QgKGJyYWNlIHlvdXJzZWxmKSAkOTYuICBJIG9u bHkgcGxhbiB0byBuZWVkIG9uZSBmb3IgbXkgbGlmZXRpbWUgc28gd2hhdCB0aGUgaGVjay4uLi4/ IT8hPyAgKFRoZSBTeXN0ZW0gVGhyZWUgZ3VuIGlzIG9ubHkgJDI1KQoKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5zeXN0 ZW10aHJlZS5jb20vc3RvcmUvcGMvNTBtTC1DYXJ0cmlkZ2UtR3VuLTI1cDIzMS5odG0KCkpha2UK Ci0tLS0tLS0tCkpha2UgU2NodWx0eiAtIGN1cmF0b3IsCk5ld3BvcnQgV2F5IEFpciBNdXNldW0g IChPSywgaXQncyBqdXN0IG15IGhvbWUpCgoKCgpSZWFkIHRoaXMgdG9waWMgb25saW5lIGhlcmU6 CgpodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vdmlld3RvcGljLnBocD9wPTQyODc4MyM0Mjg3 ODMKCgoKCgoKCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAtIFRoZSBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCBFbWFpbCBG b3J1bSAtCl8tPSBVc2UgdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBMaXN0IEZlYXR1cmVzIE5hdmlnYXRvciB0byBi cm93c2UKXy09IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgTGlzdCBVbi9TdWJzY3Jp cHRpb24sCl8tPSBBcmNoaXZlIFNlYXJjaCAmIERvd25sb2FkLCA3LURheSBCcm93c2UsIENoYXQs IEZBUSwKXy09IFBob3Rvc2hhcmUsIGFuZCBtdWNoIG11Y2ggbW9yZToKXy09Cl8tPSAgIC0tPiBo dHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP1BpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0Cl8tPQpfLT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAtIE1BVFJPTklDUyBXRUIgRk9SVU1TIC0KXy09IFNhbWUgZ3Jl YXQgY29udGVudCBhbHNvIGF2YWlsYWJsZSB2aWEgdGhlIFdlYiBGb3J1bXMhCl8tPQpfLT0gICAt LT4gaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tCl8tPQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAg LSBMaXN0IENvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiBXZWIgU2l0ZSAtCl8tPSAgVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIGdl bmVyb3VzIHN1cHBvcnQhCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC1NYXR0IERy YWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250 cmlidXRpb24KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KCgoK


    Message 38


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    Time: 03:23:22 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle,
    WA Yer off and running! Welcome Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Rieger Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:13 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle, WA Hello, My name is Brian, I'm a pilot and aero engineer, and am currently building a Pietenpol Air Camper in Seattle. Here's a link to my photo log of the build: http://riegerpietenpol.tumblr.com/ <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> I have browsed this list-serve for a little while and have already learned a ton. I hope to contribute to this community in some way while I continue to learn and also find local Pietenpol flyers / builders. Brian


    Message 39


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    Time: 03:50:52 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle,
    WA
    From: "giacummo" <mario.giacummo@gmail.com>
    Hello!! this is the place where you have to stay in touch for everything: construction technique, missing/wrong things in plans, how to's, wood problems and benefits, metal differences, DIY things, resolve by your own, I like but..., ok I am going to follow the plans, This engine or this other one?, 1045 .. what is this?.. 6061?. i like this number but where is it?. douglas? spruce?... weight?.. I can save something if I use.. Epoxy? Gorila Glue?, Poliuretan adhesives? paint with what?.. Latex?, mhmhhm my wife want... I do not care, I am working on my Piet. ;o))))) Very nice experience, go ahead!!! Regards -------- Mario Giacummo Photos here: http://goo.gl/wh7M4 Little Blog : http://vgmk1.blogspot.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428796#428796


    Message 40


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    Time: 04:00:12 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Motivational Pictures (?)
    From: "jarheadpilot82" <jarheadpilot82@hotmail.com>
    Mike, The aerodynamicists in the group will have to be the ones to tell you if it will help, but it sure looks way cool! Very nice! -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA USMC, USMCR, ATP BVD DVD PDQ BBQ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428797#428797


    Message 41


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    Time: 06:59:14 PM PST US
    From: Bill <wemidy@cox.net>
    Subject: Sky Scout useful load
    Most places where you can find specs for the Sky Scout the useful load is 500 lbs. Air Camper is listed as 520. Pietenpol website shows 456 for the Air Camper and 267 for the Sky Scout. Great discrepancy and would like to know what the true useful load would be. Bill E


    Message 42


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    Time: 07:50:21 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sky Scout useful load
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    Same plane... load should be about the same. However, the Scout is technically designed around a much less powerful Model T engine which may account for the number on the website. With only one seat, not sure you could really take advantage of the load capability. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428813#428813


    Message 43


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    Time: 08:00:21 PM PST US
    Subject: latex paint
    From: "Braniff1966" <jnl96@yahoo.com>
    i am practice painting my heath parasol before i oaint my piety.. anyone with lots of experience with latex... paint that is..i have researched some web sites. no one seems to.talk about using an airless. hyde Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428814#428814


    Message 44


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    Time: 08:05:34 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Motivational Pictures (?)
    From: "Braniff1966" <jnl96@yahoo.com>
    nice workmanship Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428815#428815


    Message 45


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    Time: 08:27:31 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Contact! Magazine all-Piet issue
    From: Ray Krause <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Oscar, Thank you, thank you for all the hard work you did on the most recent issue o f CONTACT. A good friend went to OSH this year and brought me a copy. Fantas tic information, beautiful pictures, very inspirational. I will be sending i n my subscription very soon. And about this list: I agree with Douwe and others who remind us of the grea t things this list has done. I have been building for just over two years, n ow and would not have persisted without you folks. I, too, have made some gr eat friends, although I have not met all of them! Life can be pretty tough s ometimes as we meet people with different personalities than ours who expres s themselves differently. I my business life I met many people with whom I d isagreed, and who disagreed with me. Some even disagreed in a nasty way! But I learned from all of them, sometimes even important facts that could not h ave been learned in any other way! It also pays to have a thick skin to help deal with some of the comments you receive throughout life. On the surface, some comments may be very offensiv e, but upon further thought, there could be some truth in the comment. Anyway, you guys who are building two hole Piets are really offending me and are making me feel ready bad about my SkyScout. I.e. The recent picture tr ying ti inspire us to keep building: Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Aug 18, 2014, at 8:50 PM, "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > [from Contact! editor, Pat Panzera:] > > Friends, > > I=99d like to take a moment to let you know that we are about to del iver our special, 85th Pietenpol anniversary issue of CONTACT! Magazine, and to thank all of you who were at Brodhead or AirVenture and either bought th e single issue or went the distance and subscribed to CONTACT! > > And I'd especially like to thank ALL who participated in the making of thi s issue. If its wasn't for your generosity of information, we wouldn't have t his awesome issue. > > It was our great pleasure to work with these individuals that helped us cr eate this special 32 page issue filled with Pietenpol articles: > > http://tinyurl.com/CM-Issue108 > > Here=99s the table of contents: > > =A2Dan Helsper=99s Ford A Powered Pietenpol.=94 Oscar Zu niga introduces us to a special Pietenpol built by Dan Helsper, who did his b est to stick to the plans wherever practical, including the engine. > > =A2Ol=99 Tattered Wingtips.=94 Pietenpol patriarch Donal d =9CDoc=9D Mosher tells of some of the inside tips that help fi ll in the gaps left in the various Pietenpol plan sets currently available. > > =A2Got Gas?=94 Steve Williamson, President of EAA Chapter 1279 based at French Valley Airport, gives us a little insight into the traps th at can arise when building a plane as a chapter, and details the fuel system in the Pietenpol they built. > > =A21937 Pietenpol Air Camper NX308MB=94 Gary Boothe shares his story of building this simple yet elegant version of Bernard Pietenpol =99s Corvair-powered Air Camper, as a tribute to his father. > > =A2Greg Bacon=99s Turbo Subaru EA-82T Pietenpol Air Camper =94 Oscar Zuniga presents the tale of =9CMountain Piet,=9D a str aightforward incarnation designed to be flown from a field in Colorado with a summertime density altitude approaching 11,000 feet. > > =A2Chris Rusch=99s =9CMitsuPIETshi=9D Air Camper =94 Oscar Zuniga highlights some of the many details that make this Air C amper unique, including the Mitsubishi forklift engine that was overhauled b efore being adapted to its new chore of powering a classic bird. > > =A211th Annual Alternative Engine Round-Up=94 The fine people f rom EAA Chapter 1279 have stepped up and offered to cohost our annual fly-in . This year;s event will be held on Saturday, September 27th at the French V alley Airport near Temecula California. > > If you=99re interested in receiving CONTACT! Magazine, please contac t us by phone, e-mail, or just simply drop a check in the mail to us and we =99ll enter you into our database just in time to receive this issue. The link to our subscription page is at the very bottom of this note. > > Please remember that CONTACT! Magazine is a recognized 501(c)3 non-profit, educational resource. We publish CONTACT! not as a moneymaking endeavor, bu t rather as a labor of love- love for experimental aviation. > > As previously stated, we just returned from a very successful trip to Brod head and Oshkosh. We met some great people with some new products and intere sting planes that we=99ll be writing about in upcoming issues and I kn ow you won=99t want to miss out. > > Additionally, we finally picked up the full-color version of Alternative E ngines Volume 4 from the printer just before I left for OSH. I had a good su pply of them at Brodhead and AirVenture and totally sold out by the third da y. While I was away at the show, my wife Veronica mailed out several hundred to those who were kind enough to preorder so that we would have the funds t o self-publish. She=99s still not done so if you preordered and haven =99t received yours yet, hang in there a few more weeks. If you haven =99t ordered yours yet, now is the time to do it! > > We=99ve had the less expensive black and white version in stock for q uite a while now and the are always available. If you=99d like to kno w more about the book, please visit: > <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> </b></font></pre></body></html>


    Message 46


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    Time: 08:43:32 PM PST US
    From: Ray Krause <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    Thanks, Charles. I just did this the other day to attach my Horizontal stabi lizer. But I have an allied question. I see that many folks put their planes completely together during the rigging process, which I am doing. The quest ion is : how do you allow for thickness change during covering? For example, the brackets holding the vertical stabilizer to the horizontal stabilizer.. .if you drill the brackets AND the holes in the vertical stabilizer, the hol es will not match up after the vertical stabilizer is covered, right? There w ill be two thicknesses of fabric on the bottom of the stab, plus a tape. Or d o you just allow enough space between the two stabs when drilling the holes a nd keep the stabs separated, or drill these holes after covering? There are other locations where this occurs. Could not find a way to search for this in the forum! Thanks, Ray Krause Building SkyScout Sent from my iPad > On Aug 19, 2014, at 10:36 AM, "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924@g mail.com> wrote: > > Michael, That is exactly how I'm attaching the stabilizer to the fuselage, but I still don't know how much of a shim I need to put between the two. C huck > > >> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Part ners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote: >> One way of securing the front of the horizontal stabilizer to the upper l ongerons. >> >> >> >> >> >> <image001.jpg> <image002.jpg> >> >


    Message 47


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    Time: 08:49:32 PM PST US
    From: Ray Krause <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    Are the stabilizers rib stitched? Any degree numbers for up/down of the elev ators, and side movement of the rudders? Did not try to search this out in the archives, but I will if no one respond s! Thanks, Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Aug 19, 2014, at 11:29 AM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> wr ote: > > I will measure the shim for my plane when I get home. > > Steve D > >> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Charles N. Campbell <charlescampbell192 4@gmail.com> wrote: >> Michael, That is exactly how I'm attaching the stabilizer to the fuselage , but I still don't know how much of a shim I need to put between the two. C huck >> >> >>> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Par tners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote: >>> One way of securing the front of the horizontal stabilizer to the upper l ongerons. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> <image001.jpg> <image002.jpg> >>> > > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D


    Message 48


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    Time: 08:53:31 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
    Ray, I did what you've described. That is, I fully assembled the airplane in skeletal form, including making the brackets, drillling holes, and fastening things together with AN hardware. Only after I did that did it dawn on me that things might not align after covering and painting all the various pieces. Worrying late into the night, I worked out a "Plan B" involving lots of hardwood dowels glued into the holes. Other than lost sleep, everything turned out fine. The fabric, even with paint, is remarkably thin. I never had to implement "Plan B". All the pieces went back together just like they were supposed to. Cheers, Ken On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 9:43 PM, Ray Krause <raykrause@frontiernet.net> wrote: > Thanks, Charles. I just did this the other day to attach my Horizontal > stabilizer. But I have an allied question. I see that many folks put their > planes completely together during the rigging process, which I am doing. > The question is : how do you allow for thickness change during covering? > For example, the brackets holding the vertical stabilizer to the horizontal > stabilizer...if you drill the brackets AND the holes in the vertical > stabilizer, the holes will not match up after the vertical stabilizer is > covered, right? There will be two thicknesses of fabric on the bottom of > the stab, plus a tape. Or do you just allow enough space between the two > stabs when drilling the holes and keep the stabs separated, or drill these > holes after covering? There are other locations where this occurs. > > Could not find a way to search for this in the forum! > > Thanks, > > Ray Krause > Building SkyScout > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Aug 19, 2014, at 10:36 AM, "Charles N. Campbell" < > charlescampbell1924@gmail.com> wrote: > > Michael, That is exactly how I'm attaching the stabilizer to the fuselage, > but I still don't know how much of a shim I need to put between the two. > Chuck > > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage > Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote: > >> One way of securing the front of the horizontal stabilizer to the upper >> longerons. >> >> >> >> >> >> <image001.jpg> <image002.jpg> >> > > * > > > * > >


    Message 49


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    Time: 09:00:50 PM PST US
    From: Ray Krause <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Shim between horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    Gary, Did you "tweak them up" using the guy wires? Thanks, Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Aug 19, 2014, at 12:26 PM, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote: > > I did not shim, but eventually tweaked the horizontal leading edges up. Ke ep in mind, if you shim the horizontal stab, you may have to adjust the vert stab mounting brackets, so that the rudder still aligns with the tail post. > > Gary > NX308MB > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 19, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> w rote: >> >> This is Steve D. When I got the plane there was THE SHIM and I questioned John and the group on if it was needed. The learned consensus was yes, it i s needed. It is on the plans just as a note that says "Shim between longeron s and leading edge." >> >> Chuck do a simple google search using "Matronics Pietenpol and Shim" and you can read the whole discussion. When I get home I will measure the one I have. >> >> Steve D >> >>> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Charles N. Campbell <charlescampbell19 24@gmail.com> wrote: >>> So, John, how much did you shim between the horiz stab and the fuselage? You gave a response but didn't say how much shim there was. Chuck >>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Johnkuhfahl <kuhlcouper@gmail.com> wr ote: >>>> For Steve-- here we go again-- got that piece I gave you-- I never did s ee that on the plans... >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Aug 19, 2014, at 11:07 AM, "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell192 4@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On the tail plan sheet there is a note, "Screw stabilizer to fuselage, after covering, with 1-3/4" screws. SHIM BETWEEN LEADING EDGE AND LONGERON ." The stab plan shows a piece of 3/16" plywood on the leading edge where t he stab attaches to the fuselage. I already have a piece of 1/8" plywood to fill the gap between the rounded part of the leading edge and the 1/2" X 3/ 4" part of the leading edge. Now, should I shim the stab with a 1/16' shim t o make up the 3/16" shown on the plan or is there a thicker shim in addition to the 3/16" piece of plywood. The plan doesn't cover that. OK some of yo u guys who are already flying, what did you do? Chuck >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ========= >>>>> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>>>> ========= >>>>> cs.com >>>>> ========= >>>>> matronics.com/contribution >>>>> ========= >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> ttp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Blue Skies, >> Steve D > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >


    Message 50


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    Time: 09:04:13 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    Ray, +/- 25=81=B0 will work on the elevators. Rudder should travel up to, but not interfere with, the elevators. Gary Boothe NX308MB From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:49 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage Are the stabilizers rib stitched? Any degree numbers for up/down of the elevators, and side movement of the rudders? Did not try to search this out in the archives, but I will if no one responds! Thanks, Ray Krause Sent from my iPad On Aug 19, 2014, at 11:29 AM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> wrote: I will measure the shim for my plane when I get home. Steve D On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Charles N. Campbell <charlescampbell1924@gmail.com> wrote: Michael, That is exactly how I'm attaching the stabilizer to the fuselage, but I still don't know how much of a shim I need to put between the two. Chuck On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote: One way of securing the front of the horizontal stabilizer to the upper longerons. <image001.jpg> <image002.jpg> -- Blue Skies, Steve D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D


    Message 51


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    Time: 09:32:08 PM PST US
    From: Ray Krause <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    Thanks, Gary. Twenty- five is what I think I have on the Sonex, wonder if th is is a standard number? I will go with as much rudder as I can get. Been f lying the Aeronca the last few days with 90 degree cross winds, can never ha ve enough rudder! You saved me again, Ray Sent from my iPad > On Aug 19, 2014, at 9:03 PM, "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote: > > Ray, > > +/- 25=81=B0 will work on the elevators. Rudder should travel up to, bu t not interfere with, the elevators. > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:49 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage > > Are the stabilizers rib stitched? Any degree numbers for up/down of the el evators, and side movement of the rudders? > > Did not try to search this out in the archives, but I will if no one respo nds! > > Thanks, > > Ray Krause > > Sent from my iPad > > On Aug 19, 2014, at 11:29 AM, Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com> wr ote: > > I will measure the shim for my plane when I get home. > > Steve D > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Charles N. Campbell <charlescampbell1924 @gmail.com> wrote: > Michael, That is exactly how I'm attaching the stabilizer to the fuselage, but I still don't know how much of a shim I need to put between the two. C huck > > > On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partn ers, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote: > One way of securing the front of the horizontal stabilizer to the upper lo ngerons. > > > > > > <image001.jpg> <image002.jpg> > > > > > > -- > Blue Skies, > Steve D > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >


    Message 52


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    Time: 09:37:56 PM PST US
    From: Ray Krause <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: horizontal stabilizer and fuselage
    Thanks, Ken. I have not drilled the holes for the vert stab brackets, yet. T hink I will just wait till it is covered, it will be first. I sure don't wa nt to lose any sleep! Thanks, Ray Sent from my iPad > On Aug 19, 2014, at 8:53 PM, Ken Bickers <bickers.ken@gmail.com> wrote: > > Ray, I did what you've described. That is, I fully assembled the airplane in skeletal form, including making the brackets, drillling holes, and faste ning things together with AN hardware. Only after I did that did it dawn on me that things might not align after covering and painting all the various p ieces. Worrying late into the night, I worked out a "Plan B" involving lots of hardwood dowels glued into the holes. Other than lost sleep, everything turned out fine. The fabric, even with paint, is remarkably thin. I never h ad to implement "Plan B". All the pieces went back together just like they w ere supposed to. Cheers, Ken > > >> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 9:43 PM, Ray Krause <raykrause@frontiernet.net> w rote: >> Thanks, Charles. I just did this the other day to attach my Horizontal st abilizer. But I have an allied question. I see that many folks put their pla nes completely together during the rigging process, which I am doing. The qu estion is : how do you allow for thickness change during covering? For examp le, the brackets holding the vertical stabilizer to the horizontal stabilize r...if you drill the brackets AND the holes in the vertical stabilizer, the h oles will not match up after the vertical stabilizer is covered, right? Ther e will be two thicknesses of fabric on the bottom of the stab, plus a tape. O r do you just allow enough space between the two stabs when drilling the hol es and keep the stabs separated, or drill these holes after covering? There are other locations where this occurs. >> >> Could not find a way to search for this in the forum! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ray Krause >> Building SkyScout >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Aug 19, 2014, at 10:36 AM, "Charles N. Campbell" <charlescampbell1924 @gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Michael, That is exactly how I'm attaching the stabilizer to the fuselag e, but I still don't know how much of a shim I need to put between the two. Chuck >>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Pa rtners, LLC] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote: >>>> One way of securing the front of the horizontal stabilizer to the upper longerons. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <image001.jpg> <image002.jpg> >>>> >> >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >


    Message 53


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    Time: 09:53:46 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle,
    WA
    From: "Riegerb" <rieger.brian12@gmail.com>
    - I created a forum account (rieger.brian12@gmail.com) - Thank you all for the kind welcome - glad to find a great community for the Pietenpol. I have been working on the Piet itself for a little over a month (spent a chunk of time beforehand building the table, gathering tools, finding the right workshop space in town, etc..). I have never flown in a Pietenpol - would like to change that soon! My plan is to visit Broadhead next year, a day or two before Oshkosh and then drive up to Oshkosh for a couple days (probably attend the Corvair engine workshop); is it a good plan from your experience? I would say I'm leaning towards the Corvair powerplant based on the anecdotal experiences / recommendations I have read online and the strong community support for it. However, I'm certainly not against the A65 although I do plan to carry two passengers and would like the ability to get out of short grass strips (at elevation possibly). I haven't come across any performance data comparing these two engines on the Piet (or any other engine for that matter) and am very curious how the performance changes. Brian Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428829#428829


    Message 54


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    Time: 10:08:21 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle,
    WA
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    Brian, Based on my A65 Piet, and a ride in Kevin Purtee's Corvair powered Piet, his seemed to have a lot more zip. I do like the A65, but the Corvair is rated at quite a bit more power. Going to Brodhead is a GREAT idea. While you seemed to have already made a lot of the decisions NECESSARY (fuse style, gear style, powerplant), you can verify those decisions (sitting in the various fuses, riding behind various powerplants) and still garner a lot of info about the smaller decisions to make (like covering systems, aux stuff like trim, various tailwheels, wing cutouts, etc). And it's relaxed and fun. Oshkosh is just cool. It's like the Smithsonians, can't do it all at once, just prioritize, be flexible and enjoy it. It's also a great venue for stocking supplies. You can pick up vouchers for free shipping, etc. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428831#428831


    Message 55


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    Time: 11:14:48 PM PST US
    From: jim hyde <jnl96@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: OUR forum
    sounds great.. im=C2- confused with what inappropiate language is. i teac h at a college and none of my students can complete a sentence without usin g the f word including the women in class. we had a rule at school that sai d no inappropiate language. then they removed the rule because no one could decide what the rule meant. even the fcc doesnt know.=C2- personally i h ave a list of words that really grate on me but i dont want to stop those w ords from being used. i just put up with them. its called tolerance. i have a daughter that is a surgeon. she says that the=C2- f word is the most u sed word in the operating suite. may i suggest that we start a list of offe nsive words that we all agree that we wont use when referring to our projec ts. the list will be dynamic changing as the demographics of the list chang es. to me it seems that the only word that is off limits is now the n word which was just common language used by lots of folks back in the old days. times change..may i also make the point that some words are just fine to use und er some conditions like puke. puke would be an offensive word over dinner b ecause of the vision it creates in our mind. other times it would be ok to use..another example could be=C2- jesus christ loves you which some peopl e would find offensive while others would find it not=C2-offensive..=C2 - but if used used together=C2-to express a mistake like jesus christ i just cut my=C2- f-----ing main spar 1 inch too short. now thats an examp le of words used separately are just fine but used together might in a few cases offend someone.. so context must be used when making our list..=0A=C2 -ill be the first builder to=C2-happly=C2- agree not to=C2-use any word on our new list,so someone start the list.. i promise not to complain about any word on the list. we also need to consider who will watch and see that we all comply. that way we dont need to depend on the=C2-matronics guy police us..may i also suggest that we have a tribunal to decide the fat e of the offending member and what his punishment should be. im willing to go along with whatever the group decides.. we do need a list of words and c oncepts=0A=0Ahyde =0A=0A=0AOn Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:20 PM, Jack Phill ips <jack@bedfordlandings.com> wrote:=0A =0A=0A=0A =0AI agree whole-hearte dly, Douwe.=C2-=0ARemember that the reason the FAA allows Experimental Av iation to exist is for=0AEducation and Recreation.=C2- This list should s erve the same purpose. =0A=C2- =0AI suppose I=99m one of the =9Cold-timers=9D=0Aon this list, in that I was on the original Pieten pol list that Steve Eldridge=0Acreated and then transitioned to Matronics, back about 1997.=C2- In that time=0AI=99ve seen many builders come and go, some real screwballs (Fisherman Ray=0Acomes to mind), and have gain ed a lot of really good friends that I never would=0Ahave met otherwise.=C2 - There=99s an awful lot of good information on=0Athis list, with t he occasional piece of bad information.=C2- It doesn=99t=0Atake too long to figure out who is worth listening to, and who is not. =0A=C2- =0AI like the suggestion that before hitting =9CSend=9D=0Aevery lister who has written a post should imagine themselves expounding on=0Ath is topic at a forum at Brodhead, or Oshkosh .=C2-=0AI=99ve presente d forums (fora?) at both and believe me, it is a humbling=0Aexperience.=C2 - =0A=C2- =0ANow, all you builders get off your=0Acomputers and back t o the workshop and make some sawdust! =0A=C2- =0AJack Phillips =0ANX899JP =9CIcarus Plummet=9D =0ASmith Mountain Lake, Virginia =0A=C2 - =0A=0A________________________________=0A =0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list -server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg=0ASent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014=0A8:34 AM=0ATo : pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: OUR forum =0A=C2 - =0AHey=0Aall, =0A=C2- =0AI=0Acompletely agree that we all need to wor k to elevate the =9Ctone=9D of=0AOUR forum.=C2- For many, man y months now, I=99ve been troubled by the=0Aslide from an upbeat, lig ht and informative group to a more negative, nit-picky=0Aand sour-sounding one. =0A=C2- =0AI=0Aknow for a fact this is the reason that many of the o lder members have removed=0Athemselves.=C2- As has been observed, this is a shame because they are the=0Avery people who patiently answered my quest ions for ten years while I built. =0A=C2- =0AIt=0Ais not necessary to be negative in any way, nor is it necessary to be overly=0Asensitive and respo nse to every single thing posted that we don=99t=0Alike.=C2- It is VERY possible to counter bad-advice or incorrect information=0Ain a nice wa y without getting into a personal =9Cp----ssing contest=9D. =0A =C2- =0AIf=0Asomeone posts something stupid or dangerous, then we should certainly respond;=0Abut we should respond to the information rather than t he person.=C2- And if=0Athey are jerks, and freak out when anyone confron ts them or has a different=0Aopinion. Let it go or take i t off list so we don=99t all have=0Ato read twenty emails going back and forth about little issues, grammar=0Amistakes, personality issues etc. =0A=C2- =0AMaybe=0Ait would be helpful to come up with a list of =9CList etiquette=0Asuggestions=9D here=99s my start. =0A=C2- =0A1.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- NEW BUILDERS =9CNEWBIES =9D=0AARE IMPORTANT, SHOULD BE RESPECTED AND ARE ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS THE LIST=0AEXISTS.=C2- WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE PIET BUILDERS.=C2- BECAUSE THEY ARE NEW=0ABUILDERS, THEY WILL ASK THE SAME QUESTIONS YOU ASKED WHEN Y OU WERE A NEW=0ABUILDER AND THEY WONT KNOW ABOUT, OR MIGHT NOT FIND THE ANS WER EASILY IN THE=0AARCHIVE. =0A2.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- IF D IVERSE OPINIONS ARE HELD,=0AADDRESS/FOCUS ON THE ISSUE RATHER THAN THE INDI VIDUAL. =0A3.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- STAY POSITIVE, HELPFUL AN D=0AGENTLEMANLY (GENTLEWOMANLY) =0A4.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- B EAR WITH THE ANNOYING PEOPLE,=0ATHEY USUALLY DISAPPEAR.=C2- IF YOU MUST C ONFRONT THEM, DO IT OFF THE LIST =0A5.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- IF SOMEONE PERSISTS ON USING=0AOFFENSIVE LANGUAGE, IMMEDIATELY CONTACT MATT DRALLE AND HAVE THEM=0AWARNED/BLOCKED =0A6.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2- ?? =0A=C2- =0AI=0Athink we=99d all do well to remember grand mas advice, IF YOU DON=99T=0AHAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY, DON=99T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. =0A=C2- =0ADouwe =0A=C2- =0A=C2- =0A=C2-=0A =C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahttp://forums. =============


    Message 56


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    Time: 11:25:31 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle,
    WA
    From: "Braniff1966" <jnl96@yahoo.com>
    a piet with a nice strong cont 75, 65 and 85 motors are great choices and very reliable and cheap...personally my first choice is the franklin 90. they run forever. i have flown a piet with a c65 and its a great performer.. one thing nice about a piet is there aint no room for a fat ass on board. my plane will have a c65.. it has a fresh yellow taged overhaul from a good engine shop.. i was too lazy to look for a franklin90. i have a friend with a franklin in it and its a real hot rod. my engine cost 2,700 with two overhauled mags and a overhauled carb. all yellow tagged. the prop was 500.00 certified wood senchnic.. 72x40 climb jim hyde Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428833#428833


    Message 57


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    Time: 11:31:49 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Introduction - Pietenpol Builder (in progress) - Seattle,
    WA
    From: "Braniff1966" <jnl96@yahoo.com>
    disclaimer i aint recommending an y engine... i do recommend making sure that a real pro does your engine work.. dont be in a hurry to buy one.. spend your time and money building..dont miss a day without doig something on your project.. good luck, jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428834#428834


    Message 58


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    Time: 11:56:57 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: latex paint
    From: "tools" <n0kkj@yahoo.com>
    That's a damn good question... I've used airless sprayers A LOT over the years, but not on a plane. One problem I do forsee is that they're not very good with small protrusions like control horns and such. Every time I got into a closet with shelves, it was HARD to get an even coat without TONS of runs. Those things, real airless sprayers, not the little quart cup Wagner, throw TONS of paint, LIKE RIGHT NOW. They're pressure washers throwin' paint. I have used latex through high quality HVLPs with large nozzles to great effect on cabinets and such requiring decent control and an even coat. They came out looking really great without any paint roller texture or anything. That's all I got! Latex is cheap, give it a shot and let us know how it works. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428835#428835




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