Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:25 AM - Re: Pietenpol "Blitzkrieg" to fly again (NX22VY)
2. 04:25 AM - Re: Spring Landing Gear. (Jack)
3. 04:28 AM - Re: Pietenpol "Blitzkrieg" to fly again (Pietflyer1977)
4. 05:12 AM - Re: Spring Landing Gear. (jarheadpilot82)
5. 06:52 AM - Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (womenfly2)
6. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (Doug)
7. 11:49 AM - Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (womenfly2)
8. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (Doug)
9. 03:49 PM - 3 1/2" tail wheel....a report (danhelsper@aol.com)
10. 05:02 PM - Re: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (gliderx5@comcast.net)
11. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (Doug)
12. 07:43 PM - More notes on CG, axle location and weight (William Wynne)
13. 09:09 PM - Re: Pietenpol "Blitzkrieg" to fly again (Baldeagle)
14. 09:22 PM - Re: More notes on CG, axle location and weight (aerocarjake)
15. 10:33 PM - Re: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (jim hyde)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol "Blitzkrieg" to fly again |
Thanks go to Josh Brownell for allowing us to get the original Dixie Mag Switch
back. Josh had purchased it for his Taper Wing, but knew how important it was
to put it back with Blitzkrieg Piet. Looking forward to trailering up to GrassRoots
to pick up the project and collect Ed Sampson's wing (from MN). That and
seeing the great gang of antiquers who make GrassRoots the best fly in around.
Photo is Ed with his masterpiece.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429337#429337
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing1_129.jpg
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Subject: | Re: Spring Landing Gear. |
Charles I used a combination of the two designs. Scroll down a couple pages to see. You will want to build with slight tension or I guess compression of the springs so they don't rattle. In flight. http://www.textors.com/PietProject.html
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Aug 25, 2014, at 9:57 PM, Charles Burkholder <born2fly@abcmailbox.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hello builders,
> I am in the process of fabricating my split-axle landing gear and have made the
switch from bungees to springs. Is there any drawings out there on how to do
this?
>
> --
> Charles Burkholder
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol "Blitzkrieg" to fly again |
Andrew, did you get my private message on the original seat belt?
Rob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429338#429338
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Subject: | Re: Spring Landing Gear. |
Charles,
Here is another way of doing it, from William Wynne's website-
http://flycorvair.net/2012/10/27/new-die-spring-landing-gear-on-a-pietenpol-10-a-m-4-p-m/
--------
Semper Fi,
Terry Hand
Athens, GA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429340#429340
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Subject: | Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint |
Really interesting an a great how-to video. Would never guess it was house paint,
impressive.
Has anyone tried this as a top-coat? Sher-Clear 1K - Acrylic Clear Coat (http://protective.sherwin-williams.com/detail.jsp?A=sku-26019%3aproduct-6794)
Comes in High-Gloss, Semi-Gloss and Flat.
Just curious,
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429352#429352
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Subject: | Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint |
I would be afraid of using it over latex w/o
consulting Sherwin Williams. It says industrial waterborne coatings which
is a totally different animal than latex. While both are waterborn one is
a latex base and the other is an acrylic base. Most probably a catalyzed
acrylic urethane. And if yo can get the gloss with a single coat system wy
bother with a base coat/clear coat.
Doug Dever
=0A
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint
> From: Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com
> Date: Tue=2C 26 Aug 2014 06:51:46 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
> Really interesting an a great how-to video. Would never guess it was hous
e paint=2C impressive.
>
> Has anyone tried this as a top-coat? Sher-Clear 1K - Acrylic Clear Coat (
http://protective.sherwin-williams.com/detail.jsp?A=sku-26019%3aproduct-6
794)
>
> Comes in High-Gloss=2C Semi-Gloss and Flat.
>
> Just curious=2C
> WF2
>
> --------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429352#429352
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 7
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Subject: | Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint |
Just talked to Sherwin Williams Marine Dept and they stated that it would be no
issue to apply it over any of their latex house paints once they are cured. It
has the same flexibility as the latex so it will move with it and bond to it.
It will also give better UV and surface protection then latex itself. Being a waterborne
acrylic it is optically clear, no yellow tint or fading yellow. They
said its a high quality clear commercial/industrial topcoat.
I may just purchase a quart and try it, sounds like a good top coat over the house
latex for a high gloss, Semi-gloss or Mil-flat finish without all the polishing
work.
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429379#429379
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Subject: | Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint |
Good to know. Latex is not known for it's UV resistance. Even exterior hi
gh gloss starts going dull in less than a year.
Doug Dever
=0A
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint
> From: Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com
> Date: Tue=2C 26 Aug 2014 11:48:37 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
> Just talked to Sherwin Williams Marine Dept and they stated that it would
be no issue to apply it over any of their latex house paints once they are
cured. It has the same flexibility as the latex so it will move with it an
d bond to it.
>
> It will also give better UV and surface protection then latex itself. Bei
ng a waterborne acrylic it is optically clear=2C no yellow tint or fading y
ellow. They said its a high quality clear commercial/industrial topcoat.
>
> I may just purchase a quart and try it=2C sounds like a good top coat ove
r the house latex for a high gloss=2C Semi-gloss or Mil-flat finish without
all the polishing work.
>
> WF2
>
> --------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429379#429379
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 9
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Subject: | 3 1/2" tail wheel....a report |
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHello G.P.=0A=0A=0AI have now been flying with m
y hard rubber, Wick's Aircraft Supply http://aircraftproducts.wic
ksaircraft.com/item/all-categories/3-1-2-non-pneumatic-tailwheel/twnp-3-5?plpver
=10&categid=100&prodid=3285&origin=keyword hard rubber 3 1/2"
dia. tail wheel for all of my 100 hrs of Piet time. T
his includes much taxiing on hard surface, and take-off landin
g mostly from grass/clover etc. It has taken a lot of puni
shment. I am very pleased with the results and performance.
I was doing some minor repairs with my assembly back there,
so I decided to replace the tire (even though I didn't hav
e to). There was only, what I would consider "slight" amount
of wear on the rubber itself. The bearings are ball beari
ng, but there is no means of lubrication, except maybe dripp
ing a few drops of oil into the bearings from the side.
Not much bearing wear to report in the first 100 hours. Th
e bearing "slop" on the old one is very slight compared wi
th the new.=0A=0A=0AI found a "hollow" bolt for the axle. I
don't even remember where I got it, but it has a drilled
hole to make it hollow, and a small drilled hole in the
side so as to allow grease to be forced out to the insid
e cavity of the wheel bearings. I installed a zerk fitting
into the end. =0A=0A=0AThis design has been a long evolution
in design to get to this point. There is a quick-disconnect
feature via a flat spring/lock pin. The idea is that the a
ssembly can be removed quickly and a simple skid attached if
desired.=0A=0A=0AAs you can see, there is a spring-loaded pin
, that pulled slightly, "disconnects" the rudder from the whee
l, and allows for free-wheeling for push-back operations. =0A=0A
=0AI am showing all this, not to say it is the end-all,
but to give ideas to others to get their own juices flowin
g, to meet individual needs. =0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0ALoensloe Airfi
eld=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint |
Doug
Here's a good research article on latex paint and UV. Latex is actually not too
bad.
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Paint%20Piet/LatexPaintTest.pdf
After 3 years and lots of flying, my Titan Tornado still shines like new. Granted,
it lives in a hangar like most airplanes, but it is holding up very well.
The idea of a clear coat is attractive if it works. I don't really like adding
weight to get the shine when you can get a pretty decent shine by just polishing,
but it would sure save some effort if it works. It would be great to hear
from someone who has tried it.
Malcolm Morrison
wienerdogaero.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug" <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 3:18:54 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint
Good to know. Latex is not known for it's UV resistance. Even exterior high gloss
starts going dull in less than a year.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint
> From: Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 11:48:37 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Just talked to Sherwin Williams Marine Dept and they stated that it would be
no issue to apply it over any of their latex house paints once they are cured.
It has the same flexibility as the latex so it will move with it and bond to
it.
>
> It will also give better UV and surface protection then latex itself. Being a
waterborne acrylic it is optically clear, no yellow tint or fading yellow. They
said its a high quality clear commercial/industrial topcoat.
>
> I may just purchase a quart and try it, sounds like a good top coat over the
house latex for a high gloss, Semi-gloss or Mil-flat finish without all the polishing
work.
>
> WF2
>
> --------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429379#429379
>
>
>
>
>
>=================
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint |
yeah=2C if it sits in a hangar it gets very little UV exposure. if I was g
onna clear coat I would just go with a basecoat/clearcoat system. Any good
automotive paint would work as long as you put a flex agent in it. My dad
and I did several over the years. FAA won't allow it now I don't think.
We never had a problem. Outlasted the ceconite fabric. Durable as heck.
Not cheap though.
Doug Dever
=0A
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: gliderx5@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint
Doug
Here's a good research article on latex paint and UV. Latex is actually not
too bad.
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Paint%20Piet/LatexPaintTest.pdf
After 3 years and lots of flying=2C my Titan Tornado still shines like new.
Granted=2C it lives in a hangar like most airplanes=2C but it is holding u
p very well. The idea of a clear coat is attractive if it works. I don't re
ally like adding weight to get the shine when you can get a pretty decent s
hine by just polishing=2C but it would sure save some effort if it works. I
t would be great to hear from someone who has tried it.
Malcolm Morrison
wienerdogaero.com
From: "Doug" <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday=2C August 26=2C 2014 3:18:54 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint
Good to know. Latex is not known for it's UV resistance. Even exterior hi
gh gloss starts going dull in less than a year.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint
> From: Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com
> Date: Tue=2C 26 Aug 2014 11:48:37 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>
> Just talked to Sherwin Williams Marine Dept and they stated that it would
be no issue to apply it over any of their latex house paints once they are
cured. It has the same flexibility as the latex so it will move with it an
d bond to it.
>
> It will also give better UV and surface protection then latex itself. Bei
ng a waterborne acrylic it is optically clear=2C no yellow tint or fading y
ellow. They said its a high quality clear commercial/industrial topcoat.
>
> I may just purchase a quart and try it=2C sounds like a good top coat ove
r the house latex for a high gloss=2C Semi-gloss or Mil-flat finish without
all the polishing work.
>
> WF2
>
> --------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429379#429379
>
>
>
>
>
>================
>
>
>
=0A
=0A
" target="_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pie
tenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A
ta-mce-href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A
_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.
matronics.com/contribution=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
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Message 12
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Subject: | More notes on CG, axle location and weight |
Warning: this is a long story presented for builders that like reading, considering
and understanding planes. It has little 'entertainment' value. If you are
open to considering different perspectives, it has value. If that isn't a natural
inclination, perhaps it is better left unread.
--------------------------------
Some thoughts on CG and axle placement:
Since there was some discussion on landing gear today, let me share this thought with people building that part of their project. Many people heard that Steve Williamson and his partner, who own this plane: http://flycorvair.net/2013/01/08/new-pietenpol-eaa-1279-french-valley-ca/ had a mishap on the way to Brodhead. Steve and his friend came to my display at Oshkosh and I heard the information first hand, and saw pictures. They spoke frankly and wanted others to learn something, Steve's friend (who was flying)adamantly says that he knew he was uninjured due to shoulder belts. Steve didn't have long to look at it but thought the reported engine issue was fuel delivery to the certified carb. My 2 cents on this is that the plane flew to the final airport, but the pilot was unfamiliar with the site and conditions. Upon landing he ended up putting the plane on it's back on the paved runway. Considering this, the damage was very light.
I consider the largest single factor in this the planes main landing gear location.
In our CG review, this plane was Corvair powered plane #4. Although the plane
was yet to be covered, Ryan and I weighed and measured it. Our notes in the
story show that the main gear is located 8" behind the leading edge. IMnsHO,
this is way too far back for any plane with brakes, or that lands in a crosswind
or on pavement. Even if people have flown planes with brakes that far back,
all it takes is having your attention diverted for a moment once. The 1960s
notes from BHP state the axle with brakes should be between the LE and 3" back
at the most. Steve's plane makes 6 Piets that I know of that have been on their
back in 6 years. The common thread is aft axle location and brakes. If there
are 300 Piets, 6 is 2% of the fleet. Lets say there are 9,000 J-3's out there,
if axle location didn't make a difference, I should have seen 180 J-3's on
their back in the same period, but I didn't see a single one, and I attribute
this largely to the J-3 having the main gear at the leading edge of the wing.
I have flown a Piet with the gear at both extremes, and I don't feel there is
a significant reason not to put the gear near the LE of the wing. We have now
weighed measured 34 Piets, and not a single one of them had the gear within
the range BHP suggested in the 1960's, and the average plane had it about 7" back,
This suggests that few people beyond those who flew my plane or have flown
The Last Original have first hand experience with the main gear in the 0"-3"
range to compare it with.
---------------------------------------------------
Some thoughts on A-65 CG's:
The lightest plane of the 34 we have weighed is in the CG stories as Continental
plane #4, at 590 pounds as a flying empty weight measured at Brodhead. The plane
had a metal prop on it so if you really wanted to compare it to a wood prop
plane, we could call it 'effectively' 575 pounds. This plane had split gear,
no brakes, had feathery light spun aluminum go cart wheels and ultra light tires,
and no tail wheel. In the 1990s I covered aerobatic planes for a living,
and can say the fabric on the plane was very light, and nothing short of Oratech
is going to be much lighter. By weight standards, the plane is a masterwork,
by finish standard the plane was very good, and by CG standards it's in need
of a major rework.
If you look at the notes for plane #4, the maximum allowable pilot weight before
the plane went out of the aft CG limit was only 122 pounds. The pilot flying
it was light, but not that light. Note that the empty weight CG of the plane
was 12.4" To get the plane to fly a 200 pound pilot, right at the aft CG limit,
would take moving the wing about 4" aft. This illustrates that the lightest
plane will be the most CG sensitive of all.
I read the builder report of a 'preliminary' weight of 577 pounds for a plane with
a straight axle and full size wire wheels and a tail wheel. I have a hard
time visualizing how that plane when it is operational at an airport will be as
light as Aircraft #4. I read Brian from Canada's weight report and it gives
an impressive picture of what is required to get a flying plane to come in below
600 pounds.
The 577 plane builder stated that the EWCG was about 12" and the tail wheel weight
was near zero. This suggests that the main gear is right near 12" back. Although
the builder stated that he was planning on moving the wing several inches,
put together the stories I have related above and understand this: If the
builder weighs 195 pounds dressed, and he moves the wing back 3.5", it still will
not get him into the CG range of the plane, and the main axle will still be
located at 8.5" behind the LE, even further back than Steves plane which went
over. Neither of these is a desirable condition. IMnsHO, builders should not
be so focused on low weight and be missing CG and axle location issues.
--------------------------------------------------------
Some thoughts on Empty weights of planes:
One of the first things any builder is told is that "Light weight = performance."
Take a quick quiz:
1) How much better is the glide ratio of 600 pound Piet with just a 140 pound pilot,
than the same plane with two 220 pound guys in it?
2) How much slower will a 600 pound Piet with two 170 pound people in it fly than
a 700 pound Piet with two 170 pound people in it?
3) Assuming a 1250 gross weight, does a 600 pound Piet have a 650 pound useful
load? Will a 750 pound Piet have a 500 pound useful load?
4) Which climbs faster, a Piet that weighs 100 pounds less, or one that has 30
more horsepower?
.....................................
1) They will have different sink rates, but they will have the exact same glide
ratio
2) About 2 mph
3) Most light Piets are CG limited or power limited. Study the charts in the CG
series and see how hard it would be to load 650 pounds into a A-65 and stay in
CG. Ask other A-65 pilots what they consider their gross weight on a hot day
flying off grass. Compare this with the CG info for Corvair and O-200 planes,
and see that most of them do have an effective 500 pound useful load.
4) The plane with 30 more horses will climb 3x faster. Read the test at this link: http://flycorvair.net/2012/10/17/pietenpol-power-100-hp-corvair-vs-65-hp-lycoming/
Understand that most people who preach only light weight don't have a good grasp
on aircraft performance, they just like having a number to compare. Practical
aircraft performance and good flying characteristics require a bit more effort
than comparing 3 digit numbers.
------------------------------------------------
William Wynne
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429416#429416
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Subject: | Re: Pietenpol "Blitzkrieg" to fly again |
Rob, somehow I missed it, just checked it, and will call. Thanks much. I have
also found the daughter-in-law of the original builder, and she thinks she may
have a photo of it from 1936 or so.
-
--------
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429424#429424
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: More notes on CG, axle location and weight |
Thanks for posting....
Nice to see facts and data - which provides input for decisions about my (Bernard's
actually!) airplane .....although pretty girl's/paint jobs are good postings
as well...!
I joined/drilled the wing spars to the center-section spars two days ago. More
work on the center-section this Labor Day weekend - all good....!
--------
Jake Schultz - curator,
Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429425#429425
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint |
i have used behr clear coat uv protected latex clear coat=0Ahyde =0A=0A=0AO
n Tuesday, August 26, 2014 7:53 PM, Doug <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com> wrot
e:=0A =0A=0A=0A =0Ayeah, if it sits in a hangar it gets very little UV exp
osure. -if I was gonna clear coat I would just go with a basecoat/clearco
at system. -Any good automotive paint would work as long as you put a fle
x agent in it. -My dad and I did several over the years. -FAA won't all
ow it now I don't think. -We never had a problem. -Outlasted the ceconi
te fabric. -Durable as heck. -Not cheap though.=0A=0ADoug Dever=0AIn be
autiful Stow Ohio=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0ADate: We
d, 27 Aug 2014 00:01:46 +0000=0AFrom: gliderx5@comcast.net=0ATo: pietenpol-
list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong
latex paint=0A=0A=0ADoug=0A=0A=0AHere's a good research article on latex pa
int and UV. Latex is actually not too bad.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.westcoastpiet
.com/images/Paint%20Piet/LatexPaintTest.pdf=0A=0AAfter 3 years and lots of
flying, my Titan Tornado still shines like new. Granted, it lives in a hang
ar like most airplanes, but it is holding up very well. The idea of a clear
coat is attractive if it works. I don't really like adding weight to get t
he shine when you can get a pretty decent shine by just polishing, but it w
ould sure save some effort if it works. It would be great to hear from some
one who has tried it.=0A=0A=0AMalcolm Morrison=0A=0Awienerdogaero.com=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom: "Doug" <chiefpepperhead@h
otmail.com>=0ATo: "Pietenpol" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Tuesda
y, August 26, 2014 3:18:54 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful
Micro Mong latex paint=0A=0A=0AGood to know. -Latex is not known for it's
UV resistance. -Even exterior high gloss starts going dull in less than
a year.=0A=0A=0ADoug Dever=0AIn beautiful Stow Ohio=0A=0A=0A=0A> Subject: P
ietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint=0A> From: Love2Fly.KAP@
gmail.com=0A> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 11:48:37 -0700=0A> To: pietenpol-list@
ove2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>=0A> =0A> Just talked to Sherwin Williams Marine Dept
and they stated that it would be no issue to apply it over any of their la
tex house paints once they are cured. It has the same flexibility as the la
tex so it will move with it and bond to it.=0A> =0A> It will also give bett
er UV and surface protection then latex itself. Being a waterborne acrylic
it is optically clear, no yellow tint or fading yellow. They said its a hig
h quality clear commercial/industrial topcoat.=0A> =0A> I may just purchase
a quart and try it, sounds like a good top coat over the house latex for a
high gloss, Semi-gloss or Mil-flat finish without all the polishing work.
=0A> =0A> WF2=0A> =0A> --------=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this
topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=
429379#429379=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>===========
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