---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/26/14: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:25 AM - Re: Pietenpol "Blitzkrieg" to fly again (NX22VY) 2. 04:25 AM - Re: Spring Landing Gear. (Jack) 3. 04:28 AM - Re: Pietenpol "Blitzkrieg" to fly again (Pietflyer1977) 4. 05:12 AM - Re: Spring Landing Gear. (jarheadpilot82) 5. 06:52 AM - Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (womenfly2) 6. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (Doug) 7. 11:49 AM - Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (womenfly2) 8. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (Doug) 9. 03:49 PM - 3 1/2" tail wheel....a report (danhelsper@aol.com) 10. 05:02 PM - Re: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (gliderx5@comcast.net) 11. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (Doug) 12. 07:43 PM - More notes on CG, axle location and weight (William Wynne) 13. 09:09 PM - Re: Pietenpol "Blitzkrieg" to fly again (Baldeagle) 14. 09:22 PM - Re: More notes on CG, axle location and weight (aerocarjake) 15. 10:33 PM - Re: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint (jim hyde) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:25:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol "Blitzkrieg" to fly again From: "NX22VY" Thanks go to Josh Brownell for allowing us to get the original Dixie Mag Switch back. Josh had purchased it for his Taper Wing, but knew how important it was to put it back with Blitzkrieg Piet. Looking forward to trailering up to GrassRoots to pick up the project and collect Ed Sampson's wing (from MN). That and seeing the great gang of antiquers who make GrassRoots the best fly in around. Photo is Ed with his masterpiece. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429337#429337 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing1_129.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spring Landing Gear. From: Jack Charles I used a combination of the two designs. Scroll down a couple pages to see. You will want to build with slight tension or I guess compression of the springs so they don't rattle. In flight. http://www.textors.com/PietProject.html Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > On Aug 25, 2014, at 9:57 PM, Charles Burkholder wrote: > > > Hello builders, > I am in the process of fabricating my split-axle landing gear and have made the switch from bungees to springs. Is there any drawings out there on how to do this? > > -- > Charles Burkholder > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:48 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol "Blitzkrieg" to fly again From: "Pietflyer1977" Andrew, did you get my private message on the original seat belt? Rob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429338#429338 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:08 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spring Landing Gear. From: "jarheadpilot82" Charles, Here is another way of doing it, from William Wynne's website- http://flycorvair.net/2012/10/27/new-die-spring-landing-gear-on-a-pietenpol-10-a-m-4-p-m/ -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429340#429340 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:05 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint From: "womenfly2" Really interesting an a great how-to video. Would never guess it was house paint, impressive. Has anyone tried this as a top-coat? Sher-Clear 1K - Acrylic Clear Coat (http://protective.sherwin-williams.com/detail.jsp?A=sku-26019%3aproduct-6794) Comes in High-Gloss, Semi-Gloss and Flat. Just curious, WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429352#429352 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:14:32 AM PST US From: Doug Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint I would be afraid of using it over latex w/o consulting Sherwin Williams. It says industrial waterborne coatings which is a totally different animal than latex. While both are waterborn one is a latex base and the other is an acrylic base. Most probably a catalyzed acrylic urethane. And if yo can get the gloss with a single coat system wy bother with a base coat/clear coat. Doug Dever =0A In beautiful Stow Ohio > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint > From: Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com > Date: Tue=2C 26 Aug 2014 06:51:46 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > Really interesting an a great how-to video. Would never guess it was hous e paint=2C impressive. > > Has anyone tried this as a top-coat? Sher-Clear 1K - Acrylic Clear Coat ( http://protective.sherwin-williams.com/detail.jsp?A=sku-26019%3aproduct-6 794) > > Comes in High-Gloss=2C Semi-Gloss and Flat. > > Just curious=2C > WF2 > > -------- > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429352#429352 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:49:51 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint From: "womenfly2" Just talked to Sherwin Williams Marine Dept and they stated that it would be no issue to apply it over any of their latex house paints once they are cured. It has the same flexibility as the latex so it will move with it and bond to it. It will also give better UV and surface protection then latex itself. Being a waterborne acrylic it is optically clear, no yellow tint or fading yellow. They said its a high quality clear commercial/industrial topcoat. I may just purchase a quart and try it, sounds like a good top coat over the house latex for a high gloss, Semi-gloss or Mil-flat finish without all the polishing work. WF2 -------- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429379#429379 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:16 PM PST US From: Doug Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint Good to know. Latex is not known for it's UV resistance. Even exterior hi gh gloss starts going dull in less than a year. Doug Dever =0A In beautiful Stow Ohio > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint > From: Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com > Date: Tue=2C 26 Aug 2014 11:48:37 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > Just talked to Sherwin Williams Marine Dept and they stated that it would be no issue to apply it over any of their latex house paints once they are cured. It has the same flexibility as the latex so it will move with it an d bond to it. > > It will also give better UV and surface protection then latex itself. Bei ng a waterborne acrylic it is optically clear=2C no yellow tint or fading y ellow. They said its a high quality clear commercial/industrial topcoat. > > I may just purchase a quart and try it=2C sounds like a good top coat ove r the house latex for a high gloss=2C Semi-gloss or Mil-flat finish without all the polishing work. > > WF2 > > -------- > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429379#429379 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:14 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3 1/2" tail wheel....a report From: danhelsper@aol.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHello G.P.=0A=0A=0AI have now been flying with m y hard rubber, Wick's Aircraft Supply http://aircraftproducts.wic ksaircraft.com/item/all-categories/3-1-2-non-pneumatic-tailwheel/twnp-3-5?plpver =10&categid=100&prodid=3285&origin=keyword hard rubber 3 1/2" dia. tail wheel for all of my 100 hrs of Piet time. T his includes much taxiing on hard surface, and take-off landin g mostly from grass/clover etc. It has taken a lot of puni shment. I am very pleased with the results and performance. I was doing some minor repairs with my assembly back there, so I decided to replace the tire (even though I didn't hav e to). There was only, what I would consider "slight" amount of wear on the rubber itself. The bearings are ball beari ng, but there is no means of lubrication, except maybe dripp ing a few drops of oil into the bearings from the side. Not much bearing wear to report in the first 100 hours. Th e bearing "slop" on the old one is very slight compared wi th the new.=0A=0A=0AI found a "hollow" bolt for the axle. I don't even remember where I got it, but it has a drilled hole to make it hollow, and a small drilled hole in the side so as to allow grease to be forced out to the insid e cavity of the wheel bearings. I installed a zerk fitting into the end. =0A=0A=0AThis design has been a long evolution in design to get to this point. There is a quick-disconnect feature via a flat spring/lock pin. The idea is that the a ssembly can be removed quickly and a simple skid attached if desired.=0A=0A=0AAs you can see, there is a spring-loaded pin , that pulled slightly, "disconnects" the rudder from the whee l, and allows for free-wheeling for push-back operations. =0A=0A =0AI am showing all this, not to say it is the end-all, but to give ideas to others to get their own juices flowin g, to meet individual needs. =0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0ALoensloe Airfi eld=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:07 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint Doug Here's a good research article on latex paint and UV. Latex is actually not too bad. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Paint%20Piet/LatexPaintTest.pdf After 3 years and lots of flying, my Titan Tornado still shines like new. Granted, it lives in a hangar like most airplanes, but it is holding up very well. The idea of a clear coat is attractive if it works. I don't really like adding weight to get the shine when you can get a pretty decent shine by just polishing, but it would sure save some effort if it works. It would be great to hear from someone who has tried it. Malcolm Morrison wienerdogaero.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug" Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 3:18:54 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint Good to know. Latex is not known for it's UV resistance. Even exterior high gloss starts going dull in less than a year. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint > From: Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 11:48:37 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > Just talked to Sherwin Williams Marine Dept and they stated that it would be no issue to apply it over any of their latex house paints once they are cured. It has the same flexibility as the latex so it will move with it and bond to it. > > It will also give better UV and surface protection then latex itself. Being a waterborne acrylic it is optically clear, no yellow tint or fading yellow. They said its a high quality clear commercial/industrial topcoat. > > I may just purchase a quart and try it, sounds like a good top coat over the house latex for a high gloss, Semi-gloss or Mil-flat finish without all the polishing work. > > WF2 > > -------- > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429379#429379 > > > > > >================= > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:42 PM PST US From: Doug Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint yeah=2C if it sits in a hangar it gets very little UV exposure. if I was g onna clear coat I would just go with a basecoat/clearcoat system. Any good automotive paint would work as long as you put a flex agent in it. My dad and I did several over the years. FAA won't allow it now I don't think. We never had a problem. Outlasted the ceconite fabric. Durable as heck. Not cheap though. Doug Dever =0A In beautiful Stow Ohio From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint Doug Here's a good research article on latex paint and UV. Latex is actually not too bad. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Paint%20Piet/LatexPaintTest.pdf After 3 years and lots of flying=2C my Titan Tornado still shines like new. Granted=2C it lives in a hangar like most airplanes=2C but it is holding u p very well. The idea of a clear coat is attractive if it works. I don't re ally like adding weight to get the shine when you can get a pretty decent s hine by just polishing=2C but it would sure save some effort if it works. I t would be great to hear from someone who has tried it. Malcolm Morrison wienerdogaero.com From: "Doug" Sent: Tuesday=2C August 26=2C 2014 3:18:54 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint Good to know. Latex is not known for it's UV resistance. Even exterior hi gh gloss starts going dull in less than a year. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint > From: Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com > Date: Tue=2C 26 Aug 2014 11:48:37 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > Just talked to Sherwin Williams Marine Dept and they stated that it would be no issue to apply it over any of their latex house paints once they are cured. It has the same flexibility as the latex so it will move with it an d bond to it. > > It will also give better UV and surface protection then latex itself. Bei ng a waterborne acrylic it is optically clear=2C no yellow tint or fading y ellow. They said its a high quality clear commercial/industrial topcoat. > > I may just purchase a quart and try it=2C sounds like a good top coat ove r the house latex for a high gloss=2C Semi-gloss or Mil-flat finish without all the polishing work. > > WF2 > > -------- > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429379#429379 > > > > > >================ > > > =0A =0A " target="_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pie tenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A ta-mce-href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A _blank" data-mce-href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www. matronics.com/contribution=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A ============0A ============0A ============0A ============0A =0A ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:03 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: More notes on CG, axle location and weight From: "William Wynne" Warning: this is a long story presented for builders that like reading, considering and understanding planes. It has little 'entertainment' value. If you are open to considering different perspectives, it has value. If that isn't a natural inclination, perhaps it is better left unread. -------------------------------- Some thoughts on CG and axle placement: Since there was some discussion on landing gear today, let me share this thought with people building that part of their project. Many people heard that Steve Williamson and his partner, who own this plane: http://flycorvair.net/2013/01/08/new-pietenpol-eaa-1279-french-valley-ca/ had a mishap on the way to Brodhead. Steve and his friend came to my display at Oshkosh and I heard the information first hand, and saw pictures. They spoke frankly and wanted others to learn something, Steve's friend (who was flying)adamantly says that he knew he was uninjured due to shoulder belts. Steve didn't have long to look at it but thought the reported engine issue was fuel delivery to the certified carb. My 2 cents on this is that the plane flew to the final airport, but the pilot was unfamiliar with the site and conditions. Upon landing he ended up putting the plane on it's back on the paved runway. Considering this, the damage was very light. I consider the largest single factor in this the planes main landing gear location. In our CG review, this plane was Corvair powered plane #4. Although the plane was yet to be covered, Ryan and I weighed and measured it. Our notes in the story show that the main gear is located 8" behind the leading edge. IMnsHO, this is way too far back for any plane with brakes, or that lands in a crosswind or on pavement. Even if people have flown planes with brakes that far back, all it takes is having your attention diverted for a moment once. The 1960s notes from BHP state the axle with brakes should be between the LE and 3" back at the most. Steve's plane makes 6 Piets that I know of that have been on their back in 6 years. The common thread is aft axle location and brakes. If there are 300 Piets, 6 is 2% of the fleet. Lets say there are 9,000 J-3's out there, if axle location didn't make a difference, I should have seen 180 J-3's on their back in the same period, but I didn't see a single one, and I attribute this largely to the J-3 having the main gear at the leading edge of the wing. I have flown a Piet with the gear at both extremes, and I don't feel there is a significant reason not to put the gear near the LE of the wing. We have now weighed measured 34 Piets, and not a single one of them had the gear within the range BHP suggested in the 1960's, and the average plane had it about 7" back, This suggests that few people beyond those who flew my plane or have flown The Last Original have first hand experience with the main gear in the 0"-3" range to compare it with. --------------------------------------------------- Some thoughts on A-65 CG's: The lightest plane of the 34 we have weighed is in the CG stories as Continental plane #4, at 590 pounds as a flying empty weight measured at Brodhead. The plane had a metal prop on it so if you really wanted to compare it to a wood prop plane, we could call it 'effectively' 575 pounds. This plane had split gear, no brakes, had feathery light spun aluminum go cart wheels and ultra light tires, and no tail wheel. In the 1990s I covered aerobatic planes for a living, and can say the fabric on the plane was very light, and nothing short of Oratech is going to be much lighter. By weight standards, the plane is a masterwork, by finish standard the plane was very good, and by CG standards it's in need of a major rework. If you look at the notes for plane #4, the maximum allowable pilot weight before the plane went out of the aft CG limit was only 122 pounds. The pilot flying it was light, but not that light. Note that the empty weight CG of the plane was 12.4" To get the plane to fly a 200 pound pilot, right at the aft CG limit, would take moving the wing about 4" aft. This illustrates that the lightest plane will be the most CG sensitive of all. I read the builder report of a 'preliminary' weight of 577 pounds for a plane with a straight axle and full size wire wheels and a tail wheel. I have a hard time visualizing how that plane when it is operational at an airport will be as light as Aircraft #4. I read Brian from Canada's weight report and it gives an impressive picture of what is required to get a flying plane to come in below 600 pounds. The 577 plane builder stated that the EWCG was about 12" and the tail wheel weight was near zero. This suggests that the main gear is right near 12" back. Although the builder stated that he was planning on moving the wing several inches, put together the stories I have related above and understand this: If the builder weighs 195 pounds dressed, and he moves the wing back 3.5", it still will not get him into the CG range of the plane, and the main axle will still be located at 8.5" behind the LE, even further back than Steves plane which went over. Neither of these is a desirable condition. IMnsHO, builders should not be so focused on low weight and be missing CG and axle location issues. -------------------------------------------------------- Some thoughts on Empty weights of planes: One of the first things any builder is told is that "Light weight = performance." Take a quick quiz: 1) How much better is the glide ratio of 600 pound Piet with just a 140 pound pilot, than the same plane with two 220 pound guys in it? 2) How much slower will a 600 pound Piet with two 170 pound people in it fly than a 700 pound Piet with two 170 pound people in it? 3) Assuming a 1250 gross weight, does a 600 pound Piet have a 650 pound useful load? Will a 750 pound Piet have a 500 pound useful load? 4) Which climbs faster, a Piet that weighs 100 pounds less, or one that has 30 more horsepower? ..................................... 1) They will have different sink rates, but they will have the exact same glide ratio 2) About 2 mph 3) Most light Piets are CG limited or power limited. Study the charts in the CG series and see how hard it would be to load 650 pounds into a A-65 and stay in CG. Ask other A-65 pilots what they consider their gross weight on a hot day flying off grass. Compare this with the CG info for Corvair and O-200 planes, and see that most of them do have an effective 500 pound useful load. 4) The plane with 30 more horses will climb 3x faster. Read the test at this link: http://flycorvair.net/2012/10/17/pietenpol-power-100-hp-corvair-vs-65-hp-lycoming/ Understand that most people who preach only light weight don't have a good grasp on aircraft performance, they just like having a number to compare. Practical aircraft performance and good flying characteristics require a bit more effort than comparing 3 digit numbers. ------------------------------------------------ William Wynne Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429416#429416 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:37 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol "Blitzkrieg" to fly again From: "Baldeagle" Rob, somehow I missed it, just checked it, and will call. Thanks much. I have also found the daughter-in-law of the original builder, and she thinks she may have a photo of it from 1936 or so. - -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429424#429424 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:48 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: More notes on CG, axle location and weight From: "aerocarjake" Thanks for posting.... Nice to see facts and data - which provides input for decisions about my (Bernard's actually!) airplane .....although pretty girl's/paint jobs are good postings as well...! I joined/drilled the wing spars to the center-section spars two days ago. More work on the center-section this Labor Day weekend - all good....! -------- Jake Schultz - curator, Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429425#429425 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:48 PM PST US From: jim hyde Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint i have used behr clear coat uv protected latex clear coat=0Ahyde =0A=0A=0AO n Tuesday, August 26, 2014 7:53 PM, Doug wrot e:=0A =0A=0A=0A =0Ayeah, if it sits in a hangar it gets very little UV exp osure. -if I was gonna clear coat I would just go with a basecoat/clearco at system. -Any good automotive paint would work as long as you put a fle x agent in it. -My dad and I did several over the years. -FAA won't all ow it now I don't think. -We never had a problem. -Outlasted the ceconi te fabric. -Durable as heck. -Not cheap though.=0A=0ADoug Dever=0AIn be autiful Stow Ohio=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0ADate: We d, 27 Aug 2014 00:01:46 +0000=0AFrom: gliderx5@comcast.net=0ATo: pietenpol- list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint=0A=0A=0ADoug=0A=0A=0AHere's a good research article on latex pa int and UV. Latex is actually not too bad.=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.westcoastpiet .com/images/Paint%20Piet/LatexPaintTest.pdf=0A=0AAfter 3 years and lots of flying, my Titan Tornado still shines like new. Granted, it lives in a hang ar like most airplanes, but it is holding up very well. The idea of a clear coat is attractive if it works. I don't really like adding weight to get t he shine when you can get a pretty decent shine by just polishing, but it w ould sure save some effort if it works. It would be great to hear from some one who has tried it.=0A=0A=0AMalcolm Morrison=0A=0Awienerdogaero.com=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom: "Doug" =0ATo: "Pietenpol" =0ASent: Tuesda y, August 26, 2014 3:18:54 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint=0A=0A=0AGood to know. -Latex is not known for it's UV resistance. -Even exterior high gloss starts going dull in less than a year.=0A=0A=0ADoug Dever=0AIn beautiful Stow Ohio=0A=0A=0A=0A> Subject: P ietenpol-List: Re: beautiful Micro Mong latex paint=0A> From: Love2Fly.KAP@ gmail.com=0A> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 11:48:37 -0700=0A> To: pietenpol-list@ ove2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>=0A> =0A> Just talked to Sherwin Williams Marine Dept and they stated that it would be no issue to apply it over any of their la tex house paints once they are cured. It has the same flexibility as the la tex so it will move with it and bond to it.=0A> =0A> It will also give bett er UV and surface protection then latex itself. Being a waterborne acrylic it is optically clear, no yellow tint or fading yellow. They said its a hig h quality clear commercial/industrial topcoat.=0A> =0A> I may just purchase a quart and try it, sounds like a good top coat over the house latex for a high gloss, Semi-gloss or Mil-flat finish without all the polishing work. =0A> =0A> WF2=0A> =0A> --------=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p= 429379#429379=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>=========== =======0A> =0A> =0A> =0A=0A" target="_blank" data-mce-href= "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ata-mce-href="http://forums.matronics.com">ht tp://forums.matronics.com=0A_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.matronics.c om/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A =0A==== ========0Ast" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?Pietenpol-List=0A============0Ahttp://forums.ma tronics.com=0A============0A="_blank">http://www.ma ============= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.