---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/28/14: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:56 AM - Re: More notes on CG, axle location and weight (William Wynne) 2. 05:43 AM - Re: Re: Pin Hole Fix-Oil Tank (Michael Perez) 3. 10:09 AM - corvair harmonic balancer removal (Pocono John) 4. 10:24 AM - Re: My Pietenpol Build (Pocono John) 5. 11:43 AM - Re: My Pietenpol Build (echobravo4) 6. 12:06 PM - Re: My Pietenpol Build (Pocono John) 7. 09:02 PM - 12 rebuildable Corvair engines 20 miles from B-head (William Wynne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:54 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: More notes on CG, axle location and weight From: "William Wynne" To add to OZ's comments: One of the things about Piet CG that is hard to grasp at a glance in comparisons is that you can look at two planes that both have an empty weight CG of 12", but they will take very different maximum pilot weights. The reason for this is because the relationship between the wing and the pilot's seat location is a variable controlled by the location of the cabanes. Very few other planes are like this, and if you are coming from any other aircraft experience, it is easy to look at CG comparisons and forget that on a Pietenpol you have to look at the individual plane in question. On other planes, this is not the same kind of issue. On a Zenith 601XL the CG range is 10.8" to 18". If guy a offers a W&B report that says his plane has an EWCG of 12" and he gives loading information to another guy with a 12" EWCG, than the second guy can use this because there is little variation in the planes, but the biggest variable is fixed, as the pilot and passenger in a 601XL are both always at 28". Only in a Piet is this a variable, which precludes using plane to plane comparisons without an individual weighing and calculation. It is also a potent variable because of how far the pilot sits away from the CG of the Piet. These two elements are what makes the Piet CG different from other planes. BTW, if you would like to see a first class pilots operating handbook, look at this: http://www.newplane.com/amd_downloads/MASTER_AMD_POH_601_650_Nov-09_at_1320lbs.pdf AMD is the certified branch of Zenith, they have very good engineering talent, and they published this expanded version 113 page book after the incredible world wide scrutiny that followed several wing failures in 2006. (I will assure anyone that these were caused by careless operation outside of published limits not the design) The 601XL and its documentation has now been reviewed by more engineers, and agencies than any experimental in history, and if the design had actually been at fault, they would have been sued out of existence, but this never happened. Because of this review, the POH for this plane can be considered an outstanding example for an experimental plane. Your Piet will not need one like this, but it is worth looking at all the chapter headings and thinking about putting together your own abbreviated version of this for your Piet. Besides all the learning benefits, your DAR will pass your inspection a lot easier if you have something like this to assure him you are not just going to say "Kick the tire and light the fire!" on your first flight. Section four in this book is the W&B info, and it is well worth looking at because it describes many of the terms we use graphically. For rough comparison, the 601XL has a Riblett airfoil of 60" root cord, same as a Piet. The aft CG limit on the Piet and the 601 are both are about 30% of mean aerodynamic cord. Although they are different planes and airfoils, many principles of stability and control on light aircraft transcend these differences. The Piet's aft limit of 20" is actually 33% of the cord, but the general comparisons show that BHP's numbers are in line with aeronautical engineering practices used by large companies even today. The man was far more intelligent than the "flying farmer" myth. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429514#429514 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:36 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pin Hole Fix-Oil Tank Thanks for the ideas guys. The tank itself is very clean inside and out. I believe, considering the hole size, some type of sealer on the outside woul d work, however, since I see some weeping around the gasket...no oil streak s or runs, just the outside, visible edges of the gasket are wet...I will p ull the tank, weld the hole, and look at the gasket/flange area. These are some of the small things I will work on over the winter months.=0A=0A-=0A If God is your co-pilot, switch seats=0AMike Perez=0AKaretaker Aero=0AIniti al assembly complete. Winter storage disassembly/more engine runs to commen ce. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:12 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair harmonic balancer removal From: "Pocono John" My mechanic buddy loaned me puller kits, but nothing fits. I bought a 3/8"-24 bolt and it doesn't even start to thread, but seems to fit the hole. I tried some bolts I had laying around, and a few will easily go in about three threads and stop turning; not sure why. Do I need a special bolt for those two holes? If so, what kind? Thank you. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429526#429526 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:14 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Pietenpol Build From: "Pocono John" The one piece wing indicates 14 ribs each (plus one through the center section). The three piece indicates 14 plus 1 (each side) for the center section, those inboard two being closely spaced and labeled as 'butt ribs". My question: are the four 'butt ribs' the ones with additional sticks in the ribs (referred in plans as end ribs)? Are there additional sticks in the two outboard end ribs? Anything special in the construction of butt ribs? The three piece also shows two ribs (maybe just false nose and trailing section) in the center section from what I can see. Thanks. -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429528#429528 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:43:46 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Pietenpol Build From: "echobravo4" John You will actually wind up with 6 of those special ribs- One at each wing tip One at each wing panel root And two that make up the sides of the center section The two root ribs and the two center section ribs are usually fully sheeted with plywood on the outer sides. You will also wind up with some arrangement of partial ribs in the center section depending on how you do the tank/storage area and flop or cutout -------- Earl Brown I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429531#429531 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:35 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: My Pietenpol Build From: "Pocono John" Thanks! -------- John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429533#429533 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:23 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: 12 rebuildable Corvair engines 20 miles from B-head From: "William Wynne" Builders, This E-mail came to me today. I don't know him personally, but it sounds like he has many of the correct engines to build for a Pietenpol. The note is also a good indication of how many Corvair cores are left. Its nice to think that someone who buys one of these engines will fly back over the same spot on the way to Brodhead in a few years. -ww. ----------------------------- William, Came across your website and thought I'd forward you my contact info if you know of anyone looking for corvair engines. I Just recently purchased three trailer loads of corvair parts from an auction in Beloit, WI, 90 year old guy sold everything out. I mostly was bidding against scrap dealers, even though I'm not a corvair guy, I didn't want to see the engines and parts scrapped. a dozen plus complete engines that include:RZ, RB, RD, RG, RH, YB, YN, Z, ZF types. A number of other parts too. If you know of anyone that's looking for anything particular, I may be able to help. Everything is located in Janesville, WI. Joe Conway (608) 322-0974 Local311joe@gmail.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429563#429563 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.