Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Fri 09/05/14


Total Messages Posted: 30



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:29 AM - Re: W & B, CG, and LG location question (bubbleboy)
     2. 05:25 AM - New video of UK Pietenpol G_BUCO (John Theron)
     3. 05:38 AM - Re: W & B, CG, and LG location question (William Wynne)
     4. 05:38 AM - what a great video John Theron----thank you for sharing!  (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
     5. 06:10 AM - Re: W & B, CG, and LG location question (bdewenter)
     6. 06:30 AM - Re: New video of UK Pietenpol G_BUCO (bdewenter)
     7. 06:48 AM - Re: Repairman certificate questions (William Wynne)
     8. 06:50 AM - gas vent, louvers and gap seals... (Douwe Blumberg)
     9. 07:15 AM - By butt & butt joints (john francis)
    10. 07:55 AM - Re: gas vent, louvers and gap seals... (Michael Perez)
    11. 08:02 AM - Re: By butt & butt joints (Michael Perez)
    12. 08:03 AM - Re: My butt & butt joints (bdewenter)
    13. 08:14 AM - Re: By butt & butt joints (john francis)
    14. 08:17 AM - Re: My butt & butt joints (john francis)
    15. 08:49 AM - front seat supports---one way to do it.  (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
    16. 08:57 AM - Re: By butt & butt joints (William Wynne)
    17. 12:08 PM - Gear  (Scott Knowlton)
    18. 12:18 PM - Re: Gear (Ken Bickers)
    19. 12:18 PM - Transparent duct tape (Ben Charvet)
    20. 12:23 PM - Gap seal (Ben Charvet)
    21. 12:25 PM - Aileron gap seals (Ben Charvet)
    22. 12:53 PM - Re: Gear  (Ray Krause)
    23. 01:10 PM - Re: Gear (aviken)
    24. 01:15 PM - be careful of scammers (aviken)
    25. 02:22 PM - Re: W & B, CG, and LG location question (bubbleboy)
    26. 02:55 PM - Re: be careful of scammers (bdewenter)
    27. 02:59 PM - Re: Gear (bdewenter)
    28. 05:04 PM - Re: be careful of scammers (woodflier)
    29. 07:39 PM - Re: Gear  (Jack Phillips)
    30. 11:09 PM - Re: be careful of scammers (Braniff1966)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:29:50 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: W & B, CG, and LG location question
    From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3@bigpond.com>
    This is all very interesting William. Thank you I have widened my Piet by two inches. If I wanted you to make me an engine mount, is this possible or have you got a fixed jig for a standard width fuselage? Scotty Australia -------- Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Fuslage now on its undercarriage! About to start wing spars...Corvair engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be modified. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430027#430027


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:25:43 AM PST US
    From: John Theron <johnnysdrop@googlemail.com>
    Subject: New video of UK Pietenpol G_BUCO
    Have a look at the most well known and very widely traveled Pietenpol in the UK, probably known to you all, G-BUCO. BUCO was built many years ago now by Alan James and he's still flying her and has flown over 1000 hours, a true tribute to Bernie. Alan flies BUCO all over the UK and even across the channel a few times (and under it once)! See: http://youtu.be/LrYhgZh1lTM English Johnny Building wings extremely slowly.


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:38:54 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: W & B, CG, and LG location question
    From: "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA@aol.com>
    Scotty, Our motor mount fixture is adjustable to compensate for builder variation in width caused by people putting the side skins of the fuselage before assembly or afterwards. The first makes the plane 24" wide, the latter 24.25", and we actually make different mounts for each of them to make sure every one of them fits like a glove. A 26" fuselage is a different story, but we make many custom mounts every year, mostly for one-off planes. The major impediment to mounts going down under is the abominable shipping cost. We can check this out in advance when you are ready, but it may make building it there a lot more attractive, and if so I would be glad to supply the 'tray' or even precut tubing, or just share all the dimensions. -ww Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430034#430034


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:38:58 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: what a great video John Theron----thank you for sharing!
    aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cueW91dHViZS5jb20vd2F0Y2g/dj1MclloZ1poMWxUTSZmZWF0dXJlPXlvdXR1 LmJlDQoNCg0KV2934oCUdGhpcyB2aWRlbyBpcyBSRUFMTFkgd29ydGggYSBsb29rLiAgICBUSEFO SyB5b3UgZm9yIHBvc3RpbmcgaXQgSm9obiEgICAgIEdpdmUgQWxhbiBKYW1lcyBvdXIgYmVzdA0K ZnJvbSB0aGUgVVNBISAgICAgQmVzdCAyOjE2IG9mIG15IHdlZWsuDQpNaWtlIEMuDQoNCg0KSGF2 ZSBhIGxvb2sgYXQgdGhlIG1vc3Qgd2VsbCBrbm93biBhbmQgdmVyeSB3aWRlbHkgdHJhdmVsZWQg UGlldGVucG9sIGluIHRoZSBVSywgcHJvYmFibHkga25vd24gdG8geW91IGFsbCwgRy1CVUNPLg0K QlVDTyB3YXMgYnVpbHQgbWFueSB5ZWFycyBhZ28gbm93IGJ5IEFsYW4gSmFtZXMgYW5kIGhlJ3Mg c3RpbGwgZmx5aW5nIGhlciBhbmQgaGFzIGZsb3duIG92ZXIgMTAwMCBob3VycywgYSB0cnVlIHRy aWJ1dGUgdG8gQmVybmllLg0KQWxhbiBmbGllcyBCVUNPIGFsbCBvdmVyIHRoZSBVSyBhbmQgZXZl biBhY3Jvc3MgdGhlIGNoYW5uZWwgYSBmZXcgdGltZXMgKGFuZCB1bmRlciBpdCBvbmNlKSENClNl ZTogaHR0cDovL3lvdXR1LmJlL0xyWWhnWmgxbFRNDQoNCkVuZ2xpc2ggSm9obm55DQpCdWlsZGlu ZyB3aW5ncyBleHRyZW1lbHkgc2xvd2x5Lg0KDQoNCg0KDQo


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:10:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: W & B, CG, and LG location question
    From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse@woh.rr.com>
    For those of you following the W&B discussion I am reminding the Piet builders that I wrote a little W&B app that makes it very easy and very intuitive to play W&B "what-if" scenarios including moving an item -such as an engine or a battery to see how it changes CG. If you want a copy email me OFF list at rdewenter at woh.rr.com I still owe this to Jack T and one other gentleman this app - sorry Im late on this guys its on its way. There is even a calculation for Max pilot weight - (used for worst case scenario - no fuel situation). The min pilot weight is a little flaky it does not work in all situations but max pilot does its intended job perfectly. After using it myself I could see how a properly built airplane is harder to get loaded out of CG - perhaps the Pietenpol is not as impervious to this as a C-172 but its a great learning tool. It also demonstrates how a light plane is MORE easy to get out of CG than a HEAVY one. Food for thought -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430037#430037 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wbtool_101.jpg


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:30:27 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: New video of UK Pietenpol G_BUCO
    From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse@woh.rr.com>
    GREAT video - thanks for posting. It was a very similar video of Mike Cuys Award winning Piet that hooked me - "man I have to get one of those". And I am making steady progress on my Piet I started 3 years ago. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430039#430039


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:48:51 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Repairman certificate questions
    From: "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA@aol.com>
    Tom, I understand that your comments may have been light hearted, but follow this story below for a different perspective on maintenance ratings: . Almost a quarter of a century ago, I graduated from arguably the finest A&P program in the world (Embry-Riddle) with a 3.85 GPA after 2,880 hours of documented classroom instruction from some of the greatest mechanics who ever wrenched on a plane. Men like this guy: http://flycorvair.net/2014/02/23/erau-models-of-integrity/ I intentionally selected Mike Williams as my O&P examiner, as he was known to be very tough, and actually failed a lot of candidates. Being able to say "Mike Williams was my examiner" was enough to get an entry job in many respected FBO's in the South East then. . My first job was changing a cylinder on a Navion that was flying a Man and his family to the Bahamas the following day. The pay was $100. I took the money, quietly found the most experienced mechanic at the airport, and told him I would give it all to him if he came over and directly supervised what I was doing. Some people thought of this as giving money away, but I had just spent 2.5 years spending money to learn, now I was learning for free. The work went smoothly, the plane make the trip without issue.The Mechanics name was Steve Upson, we are friends to this day. The Pilots name was Bruce Smith, I was later friends with him, you can see his picture and read of his life at the bottom of this link: http://flycorvair.net/2014/01/21/risk-management-reference-page/ He died 17 years after I changed the cylinder. He was well enough known that his obituary was in the NYT. He had 25,000 hrs in planes, but he died flying a Swift 10 miles on a ferry permit, because the person doing the preflight was not careful enough, and missed something they shouldn't have. . If you listen to mechanics speak, a number of people will say "I have and A&P". Now note that the best of them will say a slightly different phrase "I am an A&P". No one is going to become an A&P by taking a 40 hour class or finding some loophole to get a piece of paper in their wallet. Many people in maintenance, not just me, think that the LSA mechanic rating, where a guy who's whole training is 40 hours can then can go judge airworthiness on imported aircraft that are primarily flown by student pilots who where taught by LSA-CFI's with 125 hours TT, is a preposterous joke. Just because it is 'legal' doesn't make it right, nor does it mean that people with ethics participate in it. . Having the repairman's certificate for your own plane is a good idea, and a valid maintenance path. Trying to acquire an A&P by learning the least amount possible so then it will be 'legal' to work on planes that other people families will fly is not a morally defensible idea. Being a good mechanic is a serious craft that requires a lot of work, and the judgment to know what things you should not do. It is not to be taken as a joke. Some people understand this, others don't. The guy who did the inspection on the plane Bruce Smith died in did not. -ww. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430044#430044


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:50:54 AM PST US
    From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
    Subject: gas vent, louvers and gap seals...
    Good eye Jack! I caught that later that afternoon and am really puzzled by it actually. I fueled up before I left and am as sure as possible that I didn't replace it backwards. Yet I can't imagine someone turning it around at the fly-in unless it was a bad joke. Scared the pants off me that I could have done that. Regarding Louvers, I did like Mike but found a place online that punched louvers. I had them punch them according to a drawing and send me the sheet which I then made into my cowling inspection/access hatches. Find a hot rod shop/machine shop (I guess they still exist) I gap sealed my tail surfaces. I used balsa also, but attached it to both sides to meet in the middle. Don't know if it helped the flying characteristics 'cause I never flew RE-PIET without 'em. 1" seems a lot, and you can't hurt anything by adding them. Douwe


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:15:02 AM PST US
    Subject: By butt & butt joints
    From: "john francis" <Mrkringles@msn.com>
    A butt joint is the weakest joint in woodworking. I see in the plans the two stringers under the seat are that. Has anyone done anything to reinforce these stringers? I dont believe it would take much downward force to pop those joints loose. I understand the seat itself is supported around the perimeter but a couple of Gs might be enough downward force to break these boards loose and I wouldnt want them floating around in that area. Your thoughts? -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430049#430049 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0006_873.jpg


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:55:30 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: gas vent, louvers and gap seals...
    An alternative for louvers and other metal needs. https://www.airpartsinc.com/shopexd.asp?id=1775&bc=no If God is your co-pilot, switch seats Mike Perez Karetaker Aero Construction complete! (8/2014)


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:02:55 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: By butt & butt joints
    John, I added small gussets in those areas as shown in picture 1. The other picture shows how the seat frame was modified for the push/pull tube and how the support structure was made. If you do not have your seat bottom removeable, it is the gusset. If God is your co-pilot, switch seats Mike Perez Karetaker Aero Construction complete! (8/2014)


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:03:29 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: My butt & butt joints
    From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse@woh.rr.com>
    John, WestCoastPiets man! Mike Cuy has several pictures of a beefed up seat support Going to Barnwell this fall? -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430055#430055


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:14:47 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: By butt & butt joints
    From: "john francis" <Mrkringles@msn.com>
    Yep, I agree. Thanks for the picture. -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430057#430057


    Message 14


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    Time: 08:17:38 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: My butt & butt joints
    From: "john francis" <Mrkringles@msn.com>
    Bob, Now Im confused. I am told to get off the computer and build, build, build. Do you expect me to view every picture on westcoastpiet?? I know how I would support it but wondered if any one else had. If you follow the plans (as Michael says) the seat is the gusset if glued down. -------- John Francis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430058#430058


    Message 15


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    Time: 08:49:08 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: front seat supports---one way to do it.
    Thank you for the good words Bob Dewenter! I'm thrilled a video of my Pie t encouraged you to build. This plane has a way about it that just spark s people into building when they see one that motivates them highly. Getting to fl y Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsy got me building and I never looked back. Grea t little airplane. And you're doing GREAT John Francis because you're asking questions AND cut ting wood and gluing wood. I spent about 30 minutes every day reading the Bingelis books and talking/ calling other builders (Before Al Gore invented the internet) when I had questions and it paid off. Here's the way I setup my front seat after I had the original design crack a support loose before 1st flight. One detail in the attached/imbedded photo is the 1/8" thick doubler I glued to the seat front face bulkhead-----Frank P. sug gested I double up both L & R sides where the rudder bar/ foot movement on the rudder can crack that thin 1/8" piece over time. Not 100% necessary but I'm gla d I glued those pieces in there. Mike C. [cid:image001.jpg@01CFC8FF.55A36120]


    Message 16


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    Time: 08:57:17 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: By butt & butt joints
    From: "William Wynne" <WilliamTCA@aol.com>
    My 2 cents on the vertical seat base in the photo above marked 3/22/2010: It is a structural mistake to cut it out like that. The plans show this as a 5.5" or 6" tall 23" wide sheet. Yes it has a hole in it for the control tube, but it has a continuous side to side stick at the front of the seat that is cut out in the photo. . If built to plans, even with the hole in it, the 6" plate is a shear web that spreads half the seat loads all the way to the sides of the plane. Built in the photo, weight on the seat will be allowed to bend the bottom of the fuselage at the center line. Don't take my word for this, just ask Jack Phillips about this. . Wood structures work because you glue the all together and they become "monolithic." Well made glue joins do a great job spreading loads. deciding to make a wood panel removable essentially prevents it from pulling its share of the load and supporting adjacent panels. Having a seat bottom that isn't glued in is a mistake, and combining it with a structurally cut 6" front support compounds the issue. . Not flying aerobatics? Go ask anyone with a G meter in their plane where the needle points after a really hard landing, and that applies to planes with 9" of suspension travel and regular aircraft tires with several inches of sidewall deflection. Just because it holds a big guy in the workshop means nothing on the flight line. . If you don't know structures, resist offering guidance to other builders on how to modify load bearing elements of their planes. -ww. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430061#430061


    Message 17


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    Time: 12:08:32 PM PST US
    Subject: Gear
    From: Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k@hotmail.com>
    Well after much fitting, remaking of parts and installing my gear legs are o n and cross cabled. A very satisfying day. My wheels are almost complete a nd ready for install as well. And "no" I didn't install my turtledeck on the underside of the belly. It's just sitting in a convenient spot out of the w ay. Very motivating. Scott Knowlton Burlington On. Sent from my iPhone


    Message 18


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    Time: 12:18:09 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Gear
    From: Ken Bickers <bickers.ken@gmail.com>
    A great feeling, isn't it? Congratulations. Ken On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k@hotmail.com> wrote: > Well after much fitting, remaking of parts and installing my gear legs are > on and cross cabled. A very satisfying day. My wheels are almost complete > and ready for install as well. And "no" I didn't install my turtledeck on > the underside of the belly. It's just sitting in a convenient spot out of > the way. > Very motivating. > > Scott Knowlton > Burlington On. > > > Sent from my iPhone >


    Message 19


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    Time: 12:18:27 PM PST US
    From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com>
    Subject: Transparent duct tape
    This is what I used to seal my gaps. Its lasted 5 years without replacement b ut its out of the monstrous slipstream Ben Sent from my iPhone <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> </b></font></pre></body></html>


    Message 20


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    Time: 12:23:40 PM PST US
    From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com>
    Subject: Gap seal
    As you can see my gaps are pretty tight. As Douwe mentioned the are spacers on both sides. By using two pieces of tape stuck to each other I was able t o attach it to the upper surface of the horizontal stabilizer and to the low er surface of the elevator Ben Sent from my iPhone <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> </b></font></pre></body></html>


    Message 21


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    Time: 12:25:26 PM PST US
    From: Ben Charvet <bencharvet@gmail.com>
    Subject: Aileron gap seals
    Using the same transparent duct tape I was able to seal the gaps on my ailer ons with the barn door type hinges as you can see in the picture Ben Sent from my iPhone <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> </b></font></pre></body></html>


    Message 22


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    Time: 12:53:40 PM PST US
    From: Ray Krause <raykrause@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Gear
    Scott, Don't leave your plane in this position too longer, nor scratch it's belly, it may learn to like this position! Beautiful work! Ray Krause, Building SkyScout. Sent from my iPad > On Sep 5, 2014, at 12:08 PM, Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Well after much fitting, remaking of parts and installing my gear legs are on and cross cabled. A very satisfying day. My wheels are almost complete and ready for install as well. And "no" I didn't install my turtledeck on the underside of the belly. It's just sitting in a convenient spot out of the way. > Very motivating. > > Scott Knowlton > Burlington On. > > > <photo.JPG> > > > > Sent from my iPhone


    Message 23


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    Time: 01:10:11 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Gear
    From: "aviken" <aviken@windstream.net>
    Hey Scott.. Great looking Gear.. I was so happy when I finally finished mine.. Nothing like the feeling of accomplishment to see your bird sitting on her on 3 legs... Then sadly you will have to remove all that hard work to sand and varnish and cover and paint ect ect. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430078#430078


    Message 24


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    Time: 01:15:59 PM PST US
    Subject: be careful of scammers
    From: "aviken" <aviken@windstream.net>
    Please Pietenpol friends be careful If you like me shop on Barnstormers. I had an attempted scam happen when I was selling my 0300-D engine. The so called buyer held up my sell for two days until I finally figured what was happing. They were going to send me a check for too much money and have me send the balance to another location. Barnstormers warns about just such a scam with exactly the details I witnessed . I smelled a rat and gave them a good cussing, but I would like to get my hands around that scrawny neck and see if I could bulge their eyes a little. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430079#430079


    Message 25


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    Time: 02:22:25 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: W & B, CG, and LG location question
    From: "bubbleboy" <scott.dawson3@bigpond.com>
    Thank you William...will email soon! Scotty -------- Tamworth, Australia Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper www.scottyspietenpol.com Fuslage now on its undercarriage! About to start wing spars...Corvair engine at Roy's Garage waiting to be modified. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430080#430080


    Message 26


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    Time: 02:55:18 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: be careful of scammers
    From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse@woh.rr.com>
    Avken, Thanks for posting. This SCAM is NOT limited to any one site / entity and is not only a Barnstormers issue - This SCAM is very well documented in many SCENARIOS. It is a very popular e-mail based scam. Thank you for alerting our members AvKen. -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430082#430082


    Message 27


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    Time: 02:59:22 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Gear
    From: "bdewenter" <anonymouse@woh.rr.com>
    Looks FABULOUS! -------- Bob 'Early Builder' Dewenter Dayton OH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430083#430083


    Message 28


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    Time: 05:04:41 PM PST US
    From: woodflier <woodflier@aol.com>
    Subject: be careful of scammers
    I had someone try that with me too. Too bad we can't send them an email bli vet...ye old burning bag of dog doo. Matt Paxton Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Friday, September 5, 2014 aviken <aviken@windstream.net> wrote: se Pietenpol friends be careful If you like me shop on Barnstormers. I had an attempted scam happen when I was selling my 0300-D engine. The so called buyer held up my sell for two days until I finally figured what was happin g. They were going to send me a check for too much money and have me send t he balance to another location. Barnstormers warns about just such a scam w ith exactly the details I witnessed . I smelled a rat and gave them a good cussing, but I would like to get my hands around that scrawny neck and see if I could bulge their eyes a little. Read this topic online here: http://f ====================


    Message 29


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    Time: 07:39:18 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <jack@bedfordlandings.com>
    Subject: Gear
    Congratulations, Scott! You're through what was for me the hardest part of the entire airplane project. Jack Phillips NX899JP Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Knowlton Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 3:08 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gear Well after much fitting, remaking of parts and installing my gear legs are on and cross cabled. A very satisfying day. My wheels are almost complete and ready for install as well. And "no" I didn't install my turtledeck on the underside of the belly. It's just sitting in a convenient spot out of the way. Very motivating. Scott Knowlton Burlington On.


    Message 30


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    Time: 11:09:36 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: be careful of scammers
    From: "Braniff1966" <jnl96@yahoo.com>
    that was not a scam... that was an attempt to find a idiot that would would part with his money. the guy didnt ask for more than he needed...any time a smart guy beats a fool out of his money i call that working smart just good business. a scam is when someone beats a poor old, weak feeble minded etc. person out of his money.. i wouldnt call it a scam when the tv preacher passes the collection plate and fools put their hard earned money in it..with that said would anyone on here like to send their pocket change and green backs to the JIM HYDE INTERNATIONAL CHEESEBURGER FOUNDATION..MAKE ALL CHECKS PAYABLE TO MS. LINDA HYDE TREASURER. for you muslims we are having a sale on virgins. Each virgin comes with a certificate of authenticity personally signed by Right Rev.Mo HAMID..Christians can receive a nice photo signed by jesus and a splinter of wood from jims pietenpol project. For a contrabution of 10,000 jim come personally to your shop and will personally bless your pietenpol project. Annoited engine oil is avaiable for a 150.00 donation per qt. For all of my jewish bros we offer a nice leather leather bound book titled how to start your own shoe store. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430092#430092




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