Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:04 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 10/07/14 (Bruce Kirk)
2. 12:12 PM - tossing and turning (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
3. 12:32 PM - Re: tossing and turning (curtdm(at)gmail.com)
4. 02:48 PM - Re: tossing and turning (AircamperN11MS)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 10/07/14 |
In response to Bill R about Carlson struts.You mentioned in your post about
the strength in "SHEAR", should the value used be in tension which is prob
ably different than shear.Bruce
On Wednesday, October 8, 2014 12:02 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server <
pietenpol-list@matronics.com> wrote:
*
========================
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========================
Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below.=C2- The .html file includes the Digest format
ted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation.=C2- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII versio
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HTML Version:
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========================
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=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ---
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Total
Messages Posted Tue 10/07/14: 4
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ----------------------------------------
------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
=C2- =C2- 1. 04:09 PM - lift struts 2=C2- (Bill R)
=C2- =C2- 2. 04:51 PM - Re: lift struts 2=C2- (Gary Boothe)
=C2- =C2- 3. 07:55 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/05/14=C2
- (Temp623j)
=C2- =C2- 4. 08:18 PM - Re: lift struts 2=C2- (Clif Dawson)
________________________________=C2- Message 1=C2- ____________________
_________________
Time: 04:09:54 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift struts 2
From: "Bill R" <brcapper@gmail.com>
ok, lets go down this road a little further.
I am still trying to determine if the aluminum lift struts from Carlson A/C
are
adequate for a Pietenpol. I know there are=C2- Piets out there flying wit
h these
struts,Dan Helspers being one of them. (thanks Dan for your previous=C2-
response
and detailed photos). But I am still looking at the numbers and have come u
p
with a very unscientific conclusion. If I built in a big fudge factor by us
ing
a gross weight of 1320 lbs. and stressed the airframe to 6 G's. that comes
out
to 7920 lbs. The small lift struts from Carlson has a shear load capacity o
f
11,600 lbs. If the load is then divided by 4 (4 struts), it would appear th
at
these aluminum struts are easily capable of of handling the job.
But alas, this is just to simple,I have to be missing something.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431626#431626
________________________________=C2- Message 2=C2- ____________________
_________________
Time: 04:51:03 PM PST US
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: lift struts 2
You are. Cabanes share that load. The picture is even better than you
compute.
Gary Boothe
NX308MB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill R
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift struts 2
ok, lets go down this road a little further.
I am still trying to determine if the aluminum lift struts from Carlson A/C
are adequate for a Pietenpol. I know there are=C2- Piets out there flying
with
these struts,Dan Helspers being one of them. (thanks Dan for your previous
response and detailed photos). But I am still looking at the numbers and
have come up with a very unscientific conclusion. If I built in a big fudge
factor by using a gross weight of 1320 lbs. and stressed the airframe to 6
G's. that comes out to 7920 lbs. The small lift struts from Carlson has a
shear load capacity of 11,600 lbs. If the load is then divided by 4 (4
struts), it would appear that these aluminum struts are easily capable of o
f
handling the job.
But alas, this is just to simple,I have to be missing something.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431626#431626
________________________________=C2- Message 3=C2- ____________________
_________________
Time: 07:55:56 PM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/05/14
From: Temp623j <temp623j@embarqmail.com>
> On Oct 6, 2014, at 3:02 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server <pietenpol-list@
matronics.com>
wrote:
>
> *
>
> ========================
========================
>=C2- Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
========================
>
> Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below.=C2- The .html file includes the Digest form
atted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation.=C2- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII vers
ion
> of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>=C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
&View=html&Chapter 14-10-05&Archive=Pietenpol
>
> Text Version:
>
>=C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701
&View=txt&Chapter 14-10-05&Archive=Pietenpol
>
>
> ========================
======================
>=C2- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ========================
======================
>
>
>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ---------------------------------------
-------------------
>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive
>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ---
>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Tota
l Messages Posted Sun 10/05/14: 2
>=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ---------------------------------------
-------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
>=C2- =C2- 1. 10:34 AM - Re: riblett 612=C2- (nightmare)
>=C2- =C2- 2. 06:48 PM - Fw: Nose stand=C2- (Steven Dortch)
>
>
>
> ________________________________=C2- Message 1=C2- __________________
___________________
>
>
> Time: 10:34:49 AM PST US
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: riblett 612
> From: "nightmare" <pauldonahuepilot@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Great info Robert. im building with the 613.5 and making my educated gues
s on
equal
> cabane lengths as well. we'll see...
>
> --------
> Paul Donahue
> Started 8-3-12
> do not archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431538#431538
>
>
> ________________________________=C2- Message 2=C2- __________________
___________________
>
>
> Time: 06:48:35 PM PST US
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Nose stand
> From: Steven Dortch <steven.d.dortch@gmail.com>
>
> Gentlemen, Here is version 2.0 of my nose cradle. Version 1.0 was just a
8
> inch bench with an old Beech Bonanza seatback and a blanket.
>
> Putting it on wheels makes it mobile and gives me at least a foot more ro
om
> for my other plane. Also this clears my cowling and carb.
>
> Made from am $8 (with a coupon) Harbor Freight dolly, scrap 2x6, and scra
p
> plywood. the 2X6 is notched to match the prop shape and padded with one
> layer of sleeping pad (the type you camp out with) and a layer of Pipe
> insulation, covered with carpet.=C2- The hole in the front is so that I
can
> hang it on the prop while I bungee it in. I bungee the cradle onto the pr
op
> so that when I lower the nose I don't have to aim for the cradle, It is a
ll
> one piece.
>
> When the piet is flying the planes will switch so that I can get the Piet
> out without having to move the Beech Bonanza in and out, I intend on flyi
ng
> the piet a lot more than the Vtail.
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________=C2- Message 4=C2- ____________________
_________________
Time: 08:18:36 PM PST US
From: "Clif Dawson" <cdawson5854@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lift struts 2
First off you can't just divide by four. The front strut takes
the larger part of the load and the rear less of it. I'm not
sure what the ratio is on the Piet airfoil though. Most
likely somewhere around a third more.
Second, the load on the wing is vertical but the tensile stress
on the strut is not.=C2- The length of the strut is in the
neighbourhood of double the vertical component. So
your strut sees double the value of the lift supported
by that strut. 600lb lifted puts 1200lb tension on the strut.
third, the cabanes carry a portion of the load but not a lot.
I figured all this stuff out some time ago and put it in
some quite intelligent location. Now that my intelligence
has eroded I can't find it!!
Clif
When I was younger, I could remember anything,
whether it happened or not.
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2
- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Mark Twa
in
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill R" <brcapper@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:09 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift struts 2
>
> ok, lets go down this road a little further.
> I am still trying to determine if the aluminum lift struts from Carlson
> A/C are adequate for a Pietenpol. I know there are=C2- Piets out there
flying
> with these struts,Dan Helspers being one of them. (thanks Dan for your
> previous=C2- response and detailed photos). But I am still looking at t
he
> numbers and have come up with a very unscientific conclusion. If I built
> in a big fudge factor by using a gross weight of 1320 lbs. and stressed
> the airframe to 6 G's. that comes out to 7920 lbs. The small lift struts
> from Carlson has a shear load capacity of 11,600 lbs. If the load is then
> divided by 4 (4 struts), it would appear that these aluminum struts are
> easily capable of of handling the job.
> But alas, this is just to simple,I have to be missing something.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431626#431626
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
S -
-
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 2
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| Subject: | tossing and turning |
Piet group,
Just a few thoughts after a few sleepless nights over decisions I'm making
during the early stages of overhauling a spare A-65 that I purchased with n
o-logs
in Michigan last month.
Let me begin by saying that I'm not an engine authority of any kind but I d
id overhaul my own A-65 18 years ago when building my Piet. (That engine d
idn't have logs
either and was sitting in a basement for the 20 years prior to me obtaining
it but that is superfluous information.)
This is just my story to share with you---I'm not asking for your approval,
disapproval, applause, or lectures but just sharing.
Back in the early 90's when I overhauled my 1st A-65 Continental I got advi
ce from two very close friends who were IA's and A&P's who specifically had
been overhauling
small Continental engines since the end of WWII. I sent out the componen
ts of my engine to the engine overhaul shops that these guys knew well and
that they had
held in high regard. I didn't skimp on sending these parts out for mach
ining, inspection, and reconditioning. I overhauled my A-65 early on in
my build so I had the money
and wasn't pinching pennies yet and did that intentionally since I knew tha
t engine would be used every summer for many years to come giving rides and
going on trips to
Wisconsin.
Whatever parts came back rejected/red tagged I threw in the metal dumpsters
at work and replaced with new parts from Fresno Air Parts.
By God's grace and doing my homework I was able to fly that old engine for
16 years giving lots of rides and having lots of fun flying over lots of fa
rmland and flying to lots
of little and big fly-in's around the Midwest and not once did that faithfu
l engine ever miss a beat. (okay.....minus the time it quit cold when I t
axied out with the fuel valve
in the off position but if you haven't done that then you're my hero.) At
the risk of getting a lecture (or not) I'll also add that the mags and car
b were rebuilt by these two seasoned
IA's for me so I can't take any credit for the reliability that those two q
uality jobs alone provided in good engine running over the years but certai
nly a 1st class engine rebuild isn't
worth a dime if the mags or carb screws up on your first few flights becaus
e they were not properly overhauled.
I digress.
Some 18 years later I'm rebuilding this little gem and after taking all of
my measurements I realize that I can (if I wanted to) get away with just h
aving all of the parts magnafluxed
and if they pass, put the thing back together again and fly it but somethi
ng inside won't let me do that. Why? Well okay---all the main bearings
just barely measure up to the Standard
diameter book values after polishing but not any more than that. That on
e up front polished out nicely but I can still see fine lines in the finish
. It's only a homebuilt---nothing requires me
to send this crankshaft out for rework. I go home thinking of how much m
oney I'll save by just putting these parts back together again with new sea
ls, bearing sets, and gaskets.
A little tossing and turning later I thing about it more. I look over m
y numbers for my inside diameters where the crankshaft and the camshaft wil
l ride for the next what, 5, 10, 15, 20 years?
Nice.....they are standard too but only if I wipe all the gasket sealer fro
m the engine halves and don't put any string in there. Hmmm......well alm
ost standard. They aren't perfect but heck....this
is just a homebuilt, you know?
Okay....those cylinders will just clean up well and after lapping in those
valve and honing them out I can use them just like I got them once I get th
em magnafluxed and Zyglo tested and they pass
right? Yes sir....I'm going to save a lot of money on this 'just on the
edge' overhaul. This could be a $400 or less major overhaul! My gosh...
..this is too good to be true! Wow...did I luck out
with this engine.
Hmmmm........2am, bathroom break. Can't do it. Nope. Can't do it.
"that is going to be a LOT of money Mike!!!" Yep.....I don't like it
much either. "you have to crate and box all those
heavy parts up and ship them to Texas---that is a pain! Don't waste your
time doing that......after all, this is only a homebuilt. You don't have
to have the parts all yellow tag pretty! What are you
thinking? These are reliable little engines......even guys who put them
together half-fast usually get a good little running engine that doesn't mu
ch know the difference right away or for the first
year or so, so why fuss over all this?
Tuesday comes and I call Aircraft Engine & Accessory in Dallas.....the plac
e who reconditioned many of my major parts back in 1994 when I majored the
first engine. "Hello this is Greg speaking."
"wow.....Greg? Greg, the same Greg who I spoke with over the phone a fe
w times back in the mid 90's who helped process my original A-65 overhaul t
here in Dallas.....that Greg? "yes sir.....I've
been here nearly 30 years now." I immediately felt a sense of calm and
peace run thru my bones talking with Greg and explaining to him what I had
to ship down to him. Last time they took about
10 days to turn my parts around and they came back like crown jewels out of
airplane engine wonderland and they purred silky smooth for 16 straight se
asons of summer fun flying. "yes sir Greg,
you can expect my parts down by you sometime late next week via FedEx groun
d." "okay Mike, we'll keep an eye out for them."
"by the way Greg.....do you have anyone you recommend for doing small Conti
nental crankcase half overhauls?? Divco??" "well yes sir.....yes sir
I do....we like to use Crankcase Services, Inc......here's
their number, ask for Kevin." "Excellent----thank you so much. I'll g
ive Kevin a call."
"say Greg, do you have anyone you'd recommend to do cylinder reconditionin
g??" "yes sir....we like to use...." Thanks Greg........
Zzzzzzzz.........zzzzzzzzzz.............zzzzzzzzzz.
Finally I'm going to sleep good again tonight.
Mike C.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: tossing and turning |
Well...could you pass along those numbers for Greg, Kevin, etc...
Thanks Mike!
--------
Curt Merdan
Flower Mound, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431664#431664
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: tossing and turning |
Great post Mike,
I haven't slept well this week too. My problem is only slightly different. I
have a friend who has offered me his 4 place 170 MPH home built airplane for a
very reasonable price. Do I want it? YES. Do I need it? No. Hmm, That would
mean two airplanes. One slow and one to go places in. Guess I'll try to sleep
on it. Did I say it was a great buy? Oh yes, I did. Now what do I do?
I can't sleep either,
--------
Scott Liefeld
Flying N11MS since March 1972
Steel Tube
C-85-12
Wire Wheels
Brodhead in 1996
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431667#431667
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