---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/08/14: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:04 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 10/07/14 (Bruce Kirk) 2. 12:12 PM - tossing and turning (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]) 3. 12:32 PM - Re: tossing and turning (curtdm(at)gmail.com) 4. 02:48 PM - Re: tossing and turning (AircamperN11MS) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:51 AM PST US From: Bruce Kirk Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 10/07/14 In response to Bill R about Carlson struts.You mentioned in your post about the strength in "SHEAR", should the value used be in tension which is prob ably different than shear.Bruce On Wednesday, October 8, 2014 12:02 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server < pietenpol-list@matronics.com> wrote: * ======================== =C2- Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below.=C2- The .html file includes the Digest format ted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation.=C2- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII versio n of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701& View=html&Chapter 14-10-07&Archive=Pietenpol Text Version: =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701& View=txt&Chapter 14-10-07&Archive=Pietenpol ======================== ======================= =C2- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== ======================= =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ---------------------------------------- ------------------ =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- --- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/07/14: 4 =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ---------------------------------------- ------------------ Today's Message Index: ---------------------- =C2- =C2- 1. 04:09 PM - lift struts 2=C2- (Bill R) =C2- =C2- 2. 04:51 PM - Re: lift struts 2=C2- (Gary Boothe) =C2- =C2- 3. 07:55 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/05/14=C2 - (Temp623j) =C2- =C2- 4. 08:18 PM - Re: lift struts 2=C2- (Clif Dawson) ________________________________=C2- Message 1=C2- ____________________ _________________ Time: 04:09:54 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift struts 2 From: "Bill R" ok, lets go down this road a little further. I am still trying to determine if the aluminum lift struts from Carlson A/C are adequate for a Pietenpol. I know there are=C2- Piets out there flying wit h these struts,Dan Helspers being one of them. (thanks Dan for your previous=C2- response and detailed photos). But I am still looking at the numbers and have come u p with a very unscientific conclusion. If I built in a big fudge factor by us ing a gross weight of 1320 lbs. and stressed the airframe to 6 G's. that comes out to 7920 lbs. The small lift struts from Carlson has a shear load capacity o f 11,600 lbs. If the load is then divided by 4 (4 struts), it would appear th at these aluminum struts are easily capable of of handling the job. But alas, this is just to simple,I have to be missing something. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431626#431626 ________________________________=C2- Message 2=C2- ____________________ _________________ Time: 04:51:03 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: lift struts 2 You are. Cabanes share that load. The picture is even better than you compute. Gary Boothe NX308MB -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill R Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift struts 2 ok, lets go down this road a little further. I am still trying to determine if the aluminum lift struts from Carlson A/C are adequate for a Pietenpol. I know there are=C2- Piets out there flying with these struts,Dan Helspers being one of them. (thanks Dan for your previous response and detailed photos). But I am still looking at the numbers and have come up with a very unscientific conclusion. If I built in a big fudge factor by using a gross weight of 1320 lbs. and stressed the airframe to 6 G's. that comes out to 7920 lbs. The small lift struts from Carlson has a shear load capacity of 11,600 lbs. If the load is then divided by 4 (4 struts), it would appear that these aluminum struts are easily capable of o f handling the job. But alas, this is just to simple,I have to be missing something. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431626#431626 ________________________________=C2- Message 3=C2- ____________________ _________________ Time: 07:55:56 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 10/05/14 From: Temp623j > On Oct 6, 2014, at 3:02 AM, Pietenpol-List Digest Server wrote: > > * > > ======================== ======================== >=C2- Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== ======================== > > Today's complete Pietenpol-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below.=C2- The .html file includes the Digest form atted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation.=C2- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII vers ion > of the Pietenpol-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > >=C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=html&Chapter 14-10-05&Archive=Pietenpol > > Text Version: > >=C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701 &View=txt&Chapter 14-10-05&Archive=Pietenpol > > > ======================== ====================== >=C2- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== ====================== > > >=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- --------------------------------------- ------------------- >=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive >=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- --- >=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Tota l Messages Posted Sun 10/05/14: 2 >=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- --------------------------------------- ------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > >=C2- =C2- 1. 10:34 AM - Re: riblett 612=C2- (nightmare) >=C2- =C2- 2. 06:48 PM - Fw: Nose stand=C2- (Steven Dortch) > > > > ________________________________=C2- Message 1=C2- __________________ ___________________ > > > Time: 10:34:49 AM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: riblett 612 > From: "nightmare" > > > Great info Robert. im building with the 613.5 and making my educated gues s on equal > cabane lengths as well. we'll see... > > -------- > Paul Donahue > Started 8-3-12 > do not archive > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431538#431538 > > > ________________________________=C2- Message 2=C2- __________________ ___________________ > > > Time: 06:48:35 PM PST US > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Nose stand > From: Steven Dortch > > Gentlemen, Here is version 2.0 of my nose cradle. Version 1.0 was just a 8 > inch bench with an old Beech Bonanza seatback and a blanket. > > Putting it on wheels makes it mobile and gives me at least a foot more ro om > for my other plane. Also this clears my cowling and carb. > > Made from am $8 (with a coupon) Harbor Freight dolly, scrap 2x6, and scra p > plywood. the 2X6 is notched to match the prop shape and padded with one > layer of sleeping pad (the type you camp out with) and a layer of Pipe > insulation, covered with carpet.=C2- The hole in the front is so that I can > hang it on the prop while I bungee it in. I bungee the cradle onto the pr op > so that when I lower the nose I don't have to aim for the cradle, It is a ll > one piece. > > When the piet is flying the planes will switch so that I can get the Piet > out without having to move the Beech Bonanza in and out, I intend on flyi ng > the piet a lot more than the Vtail. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D. > > > > > > > > ________________________________=C2- Message 4=C2- ____________________ _________________ Time: 08:18:36 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lift struts 2 First off you can't just divide by four. The front strut takes the larger part of the load and the rear less of it. I'm not sure what the ratio is on the Piet airfoil though. Most likely somewhere around a third more. Second, the load on the wing is vertical but the tensile stress on the strut is not.=C2- The length of the strut is in the neighbourhood of double the vertical component. So your strut sees double the value of the lift supported by that strut. 600lb lifted puts 1200lb tension on the strut. third, the cabanes carry a portion of the load but not a lot. I figured all this stuff out some time ago and put it in some quite intelligent location. Now that my intelligence has eroded I can't find it!! Clif When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it happened or not. =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Mark Twa in ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill R" Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: lift struts 2 > > ok, lets go down this road a little further. > I am still trying to determine if the aluminum lift struts from Carlson > A/C are adequate for a Pietenpol. I know there are=C2- Piets out there flying > with these struts,Dan Helspers being one of them. (thanks Dan for your > previous=C2- response and detailed photos). But I am still looking at t he > numbers and have come up with a very unscientific conclusion. If I built > in a big fudge factor by using a gross weight of 1320 lbs. and stressed > the airframe to 6 G's. that comes out to 7920 lbs. The small lift struts > from Carlson has a shear load capacity of 11,600 lbs. If the load is then > divided by 4 (4 struts), it would appear that these aluminum struts are > easily capable of of handling the job. > But alas, this is just to simple,I have to be missing something. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431626#431626 > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > S - - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:09 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: tossing and turning Piet group, Just a few thoughts after a few sleepless nights over decisions I'm making during the early stages of overhauling a spare A-65 that I purchased with n o-logs in Michigan last month. Let me begin by saying that I'm not an engine authority of any kind but I d id overhaul my own A-65 18 years ago when building my Piet. (That engine d idn't have logs either and was sitting in a basement for the 20 years prior to me obtaining it but that is superfluous information.) This is just my story to share with you---I'm not asking for your approval, disapproval, applause, or lectures but just sharing. Back in the early 90's when I overhauled my 1st A-65 Continental I got advi ce from two very close friends who were IA's and A&P's who specifically had been overhauling small Continental engines since the end of WWII. I sent out the componen ts of my engine to the engine overhaul shops that these guys knew well and that they had held in high regard. I didn't skimp on sending these parts out for mach ining, inspection, and reconditioning. I overhauled my A-65 early on in my build so I had the money and wasn't pinching pennies yet and did that intentionally since I knew tha t engine would be used every summer for many years to come giving rides and going on trips to Wisconsin. Whatever parts came back rejected/red tagged I threw in the metal dumpsters at work and replaced with new parts from Fresno Air Parts. By God's grace and doing my homework I was able to fly that old engine for 16 years giving lots of rides and having lots of fun flying over lots of fa rmland and flying to lots of little and big fly-in's around the Midwest and not once did that faithfu l engine ever miss a beat. (okay.....minus the time it quit cold when I t axied out with the fuel valve in the off position but if you haven't done that then you're my hero.) At the risk of getting a lecture (or not) I'll also add that the mags and car b were rebuilt by these two seasoned IA's for me so I can't take any credit for the reliability that those two q uality jobs alone provided in good engine running over the years but certai nly a 1st class engine rebuild isn't worth a dime if the mags or carb screws up on your first few flights becaus e they were not properly overhauled. I digress. Some 18 years later I'm rebuilding this little gem and after taking all of my measurements I realize that I can (if I wanted to) get away with just h aving all of the parts magnafluxed and if they pass, put the thing back together again and fly it but somethi ng inside won't let me do that. Why? Well okay---all the main bearings just barely measure up to the Standard diameter book values after polishing but not any more than that. That on e up front polished out nicely but I can still see fine lines in the finish . It's only a homebuilt---nothing requires me to send this crankshaft out for rework. I go home thinking of how much m oney I'll save by just putting these parts back together again with new sea ls, bearing sets, and gaskets. A little tossing and turning later I thing about it more. I look over m y numbers for my inside diameters where the crankshaft and the camshaft wil l ride for the next what, 5, 10, 15, 20 years? Nice.....they are standard too but only if I wipe all the gasket sealer fro m the engine halves and don't put any string in there. Hmmm......well alm ost standard. They aren't perfect but heck....this is just a homebuilt, you know? Okay....those cylinders will just clean up well and after lapping in those valve and honing them out I can use them just like I got them once I get th em magnafluxed and Zyglo tested and they pass right? Yes sir....I'm going to save a lot of money on this 'just on the edge' overhaul. This could be a $400 or less major overhaul! My gosh... ..this is too good to be true! Wow...did I luck out with this engine. Hmmmm........2am, bathroom break. Can't do it. Nope. Can't do it. "that is going to be a LOT of money Mike!!!" Yep.....I don't like it much either. "you have to crate and box all those heavy parts up and ship them to Texas---that is a pain! Don't waste your time doing that......after all, this is only a homebuilt. You don't have to have the parts all yellow tag pretty! What are you thinking? These are reliable little engines......even guys who put them together half-fast usually get a good little running engine that doesn't mu ch know the difference right away or for the first year or so, so why fuss over all this? Tuesday comes and I call Aircraft Engine & Accessory in Dallas.....the plac e who reconditioned many of my major parts back in 1994 when I majored the first engine. "Hello this is Greg speaking." "wow.....Greg? Greg, the same Greg who I spoke with over the phone a fe w times back in the mid 90's who helped process my original A-65 overhaul t here in Dallas.....that Greg? "yes sir.....I've been here nearly 30 years now." I immediately felt a sense of calm and peace run thru my bones talking with Greg and explaining to him what I had to ship down to him. Last time they took about 10 days to turn my parts around and they came back like crown jewels out of airplane engine wonderland and they purred silky smooth for 16 straight se asons of summer fun flying. "yes sir Greg, you can expect my parts down by you sometime late next week via FedEx groun d." "okay Mike, we'll keep an eye out for them." "by the way Greg.....do you have anyone you recommend for doing small Conti nental crankcase half overhauls?? Divco??" "well yes sir.....yes sir I do....we like to use Crankcase Services, Inc......here's their number, ask for Kevin." "Excellent----thank you so much. I'll g ive Kevin a call." "say Greg, do you have anyone you'd recommend to do cylinder reconditionin g??" "yes sir....we like to use...." Thanks Greg........ Zzzzzzzz.........zzzzzzzzzz.............zzzzzzzzzz. Finally I'm going to sleep good again tonight. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:18 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tossing and turning From: "curtdm(at)gmail.com" Well...could you pass along those numbers for Greg, Kevin, etc... Thanks Mike! -------- Curt Merdan Flower Mound, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431664#431664 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:25 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: tossing and turning From: "AircamperN11MS" Great post Mike, I haven't slept well this week too. My problem is only slightly different. I have a friend who has offered me his 4 place 170 MPH home built airplane for a very reasonable price. Do I want it? YES. Do I need it? No. Hmm, That would mean two airplanes. One slow and one to go places in. Guess I'll try to sleep on it. Did I say it was a great buy? Oh yes, I did. Now what do I do? I can't sleep either, -------- Scott Liefeld Flying N11MS since March 1972 Steel Tube C-85-12 Wire Wheels Brodhead in 1996 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=431667#431667 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.