---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/07/14: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:50 AM - E-LSA reregistration? (Ben Charvet) 2. 05:22 AM - Re: E-LSA reregistration? (Boatright, Jeffrey) 3. 06:30 AM - Re: E-LSA reregistration? (gliderx5@comcast.net) 4. 08:06 AM - Re: Pietenpol in Print (Baldeagle) 5. 10:38 AM - Re: E-LSA reregistration? (CatDesigns) 6. 11:58 AM - Re: E-LSA reregistration? (taildrags) 7. 12:11 PM - Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( (jarheadpilot82) 8. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: E-LSA reregistration? (Ben Charvet) 9. 04:43 PM - Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( (Mark Roberts) 10. 05:10 PM - Re: Re: E-LSA reregistration? (Steven Dortch) 11. 05:11 PM - Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( (taildrags) 12. 07:52 PM - Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( (Mark Roberts) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:45 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Pietenpol-List: E-LSA reregistration? We've had a situation develop on our local airport. An older gentleman had a mishap flying his J-3. The airplane has been in his family over 60 years, and he actually soloed in it 60 years ago. He has thousands of flight hours and is a former ATP. During the mishap his landing gear struck a runway sign and collapsed. The landing gear was the only thing damaged, so whether this was an accident is open to interpretation. However, the FAA was notified by the mechanic that helped remove the aircraft from the runway. The FAA is asking the pilot have a test-flight with an FAA examiner, which I can understand due to his age, etc. They also dinged him because he was flying as a sport pilot in his J-3 with its original registration as a standard class airplane. They claim it is necessary to re-register the airplane as light sport in order to fly it as a light sport pilot. I have been flying my Pietenpol for 5 years as using light sport pilot rules, and although I remember I had the option to register it as E-LSA, the conventional wisdom at the time was Experimental Amateur Built was the way to go. I've searched the FAA regs and can't find any clarification. Has anyone else out there heard of a push to re-register as E-LSA to make an aircraft eligible for light sport pilots? Ben Charvet 235 hrs on NX866BC sitting on my DL medical ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:03 AM PST US From: "Boatright, Jeffrey" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: E-LSA reregistration? 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Ben I believe Jeff is correct. As far as I know it is not possible to re-regist er a standard or experimental airplane as an E-LSA. You can only re-registe r S-LSA as E-LSA. I think the only way to register a new airplane as E-LSA is to have built it from an approved LSA kit. You acquaintance has been given incorrect information from the local FAA, w hich is not really that uncommon with respect to Sport Pilot and LSA. Malcolm www.wienerdogaero.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Boatright" Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 8:21:38 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: E-LSA reregistration? I=99m sorry to hear of your acquaintance=99s mishap. As long as the Cub has always met the definition of an LSA, per the FARs (i .e., gross weight below 1320 lbs, no more than two seats, etc.), then it ca n be flown by a pilot who qualifies as a Sport Pilot. I have not heard of any push for re-registration. Indeed, I don=99t s ee how that would be possible within the current FARs. What FSDO are we dea ling with here? Regardless, IMO, the older gent should call FAA in OKC =93 without the local FSDO being on the line. He should also call EAA an d AOPA, even if he=99s not a member. -- Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD, FARVO Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine From: Ben Charvet < bencharvet@gmail.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: E-LSA reregistration? We've had a situation develop on our local airport. An older gentleman had a mishap flying his J-3. The airplane has been in his family over 60 years, and he actually soloed in it 60 years ago. He has thousands of flight hours and is a former ATP. During the mishap his landing gear struck a runway sign and collapsed. The landing gear was the only thing damaged, so whether this was an accident is open to interpretation. However, the FAA was notified by the mechanic that helped remove the aircraft from the runway. The FAA is asking the pilot have a test-flight with an FAA examiner, which I can understand due to his age, etc. They also dinged him because he was flying as a sport pilot in his J-3 with its original registration as a standard class airplane. They claim it is necessary to re-register the airplane as light sport in order to fly it as a light sport pilot. I have been flying my Pietenpol for 5 years as using light sport pilot rules, and although I remember I had the option to register it as E-LSA, the conventional wisdom at the time was Experimental Amateur Built was the way to go. I've searched the FAA regs and can't find any clarification. Has anyone else out there heard of a push to re-register as E-LSA to make an aircraft eligible for light sport pilots? Ben Charvet 235 hrs on NX866BC sitting on my DL medical =========== =========== =========== =========== This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). =EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD~=EF=BD=EF=BD,=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD% =EF=BD=EF=BDM4=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BDx=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD =EF=BDw=EF=BDr=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD=EF=BD ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol in Print From: "Baldeagle" ...small correction, it's Rudolf. Here's a copy of the Bill of Sale from January 4th, 1941 when Allen bought it from Ed Russert for $250. (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/Baldeagle27/media/PietenpolRudolf0001_zps34487334.jpg.html) Interestingly, it was supposed to have been owned at this point by the flying club that included Bernard Pietenpol, but immediately prior to this there is a gap in the paperwork of at least 1 year, and we think that was when the flying club had it and the famous tavern bombing incident occured. It looks like the flying club never registered it after they got it from Russert (who built it), and then had to get him to sign a bill of sale when they sold it to Allen. Then next bill of sale in the file is from July 12, 1995 when Allen sold it to Jim Hammond. - - -------- do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435455#435455 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:11 AM PST US From: "CatDesigns" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: E-LSA reregistration? Ben On the FAA website the J3 is listed as " Light Sport Aircraft: Existing Type Certificated Models" here http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/media/ExistingModels.pdf. You cannot reregister an existing aircraft as experimental light sport. See section Section 6. Light Sport Aircraft Category Airworthiness Certifications 4038. General. http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/7a0 9d53fb0d5325586257885004d9e1b/$FILE/8130.2G_CHG1_Incorporated.pdf Chris Sacramento, CA WestcoastPiet.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 4:50 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: E-LSA reregistration? We've had a situation develop on our local airport. An older gentleman had a mishap flying his J-3. The airplane has been in his family over 60 years, and he actually soloed in it 60 years ago. He has thousands of flight hours and is a former ATP. During the mishap his landing gear struck a runway sign and collapsed. The landing gear was the only thing damaged, so whether this was an accident is open to interpretation. However, the FAA was notified by the mechanic that helped remove the aircraft from the runway. The FAA is asking the pilot have a test-flight with an FAA examiner, which I can understand due to his age, etc. They also dinged him because he was flying as a sport pilot in his J-3 with its original registration as a standard class airplane. They claim it is necessary to re-register the airplane as light sport in order to fly it as a light sport pilot. I have been flying my Pietenpol for 5 years as using light sport pilot rules, and although I remember I had the option to register it as E-LSA, the conventional wisdom at the time was Experimental Amateur Built was the way to go. I've searched the FAA regs and can't find any clarification. Has anyone else out there heard of a push to re-register as E-LSA to make an aircraft eligible for light sport pilots? Ben Charvet 235 hrs on NX866BC sitting on my DL medical ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:58:39 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: E-LSA reregistration? From: "taildrags" Here's yet another opportunity to gently and patiently educate one of our public servants and employees (FAA person). As frustrating as it is to encounter ignorance, error, confusion, or misinformation in the agency that is supposed to promote and regulate civil aviation, there is much more to be gained by getting the correct information right out of the regulations or advisory circulars and then discussing it with our employees in the FAA. But I'll admit, sometimes you just want to whack 'em upside the head. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435462#435462 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:47 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( From: "jarheadpilot82" Mark, I am going to lay down a bit of a challenge. It would be easy to let your dream kind of slide and allow yourself to let your project go. Ask guys that sold their projects if they are glad that they did, and I think most would say that, in retrospect, they wish they had not. The little bit of money was not worth the setback. You have a place to store your fuselage. Make the effort to get it to NAS Danford (Tool's house and hangar). It probably will be a pain to lug the project across country. But think of the story you can tell once you have it flying. You will in the long run be glad that you did. If your plans and desires change later on, sell it then. But do not let it go - yet. My advice - and only worth what you paid for it. Best wishes in the move and the new job. -------- Semper Fi, Terry Hand Athens, GA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435463#435463 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:10:37 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: E-LSA reregistration? I fugured this was just some mis-informed FAA guy. The regulation they quoted was 21.190, which excludes standard certified airplanes from being reregistered as E-LSA. Thanks for the input. Hopefully in the next few months all this will be irrelevent and the DL Class III medical will happen. Ben On 12/7/2014 2:58 PM, taildrags wrote: > > Here's yet another opportunity to gently and patiently educate one of our public servants and employees (FAA person). As frustrating as it is to encounter ignorance, error, confusion, or misinformation in the agency that is supposed to promote and regulate civil aviation, there is much more to be gained by getting the correct information right out of the regulations or advisory circulars and then discussing it with our employees in the FAA. > > But I'll admit, sometimes you just want to whack 'em upside the head. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435462#435462 > > -- Ben Charvet, PharmD Staff Pharmacist Parrish Medical center ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:42 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( From: "Mark Roberts" Well, that's good advice, even if it was free! I appreciate it, and I might just be doing what you suggest. It is kinda a logistic's issue with the truck, but I might be able to squeeze it in, and that would be the main issue. I really don't want to sell it, and at this rate, I might not! :) Thanks for the advice! Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435470#435470 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: E-LSA reregistration? From: Steven Dortch Sorry to be the first to tell you Oscar, the Federal Aviation Administration Reauthorization Act of 1996, approved changes to the FAA's mission that removed the agency's dual mandate of regulating safety and promoting industry development. After that the FAA was to promote safety only!. Blue Skies, Steve D On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 1:58 PM, taildrags wrote: > > Here's yet another opportunity to gently and patiently educate one of our > public servants and employees (FAA person). As frustrating as it is to > encounter ignorance, error, confusion, or misinformation in the agency that > is supposed to promote and regulate civil aviation, there is much more to > be gained by getting the correct information right out of the regulations > or advisory circulars and then discussing it with our employees in the FAA. > > But I'll admit, sometimes you just want to whack 'em upside the head. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435462#435462 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( From: "taildrags" Mark; if I were retired or not married, I would volunteer to drive a rental truck one-way from CA to TN with your project, just for the adventure and sightseeing and to meet Tools and some of the other Pieters along the way (including a mandatory stop at The Chicken Coop in Oklahoma). I'd even pay my own way. But I'm not ;o) -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435472#435472 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:04 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( From: "Mark Roberts" Ha! Oscar, I am still chuckling. As we have all heard before, it's the thought that counts! Choosing to build a piet brings with it the best people in the world. I hope I can keep the project and meet ya'll in brodhead sometime! Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435479#435479 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.