Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:03 AM - Re: Re: Wing rib help! (danhelsper@aol.com)
2. 06:45 AM - Re: Vi Kapler hinges (Amsafetyc)
3. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: making progress on Sky Scout (Ray Krause)
4. 07:31 AM - Re: Re: making progress on Sky Scout (glenschweizer@yahoo.com)
5. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: Another pietenpol egg has been laid (glenschweizer@yahoo.com)
6. 08:09 AM - Re: Winter Flying! (Barry Davis)
7. 09:33 AM - Re: Vi Kapler hinges (taildrags)
8. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: Vi Kapler hinges (Jack)
9. 12:17 PM - Re: Wing rib help! (dgaldrich)
10. 06:28 PM - Re: Re: Vi Kapler hinges (Amsafetyc)
11. 08:34 PM - Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( (Mark Roberts)
12. 08:36 PM - Re: Vi Kapler hinges (taildrags)
13. 08:49 PM - Re: Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( (glenschweizer@yahoo.com)
14. 09:04 PM - Re: Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( (Steven Dortch)
15. 09:27 PM - Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( (Mark Roberts)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Wing rib help! |
Dave,=0A=0A=0AAS&S still has it. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/se
arch.php?s=WELDWOOD+GLUE&x=0&y=0=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0ALoensloe Airfie
ld=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: dgaldrich
<dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list <pietenpol-list@matronics.co
m>=0ASent: Sun, Dec 21, 2014 5:26 pm=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List:
"dgaldrich" <dgaldrich@embarqmail.com>=0A=0AMy error... The glue in
Douwe's wing was plastic resin, not casien as =0Aoriginally
stated. It appeared that the tail feathers were assembled u
sing the =0Asame stuff but those joints were MUCH stronger.
At the time, we suspected that =0Ait was used correctly o
n them and not on the ribs. The latest version of 43-13
=0Asays that urea-formeldehyde glues are only used with speci
fic, case by case, FAA =0Aapproval. AS&S no longer carries
it.=0A=0ADave=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://for
===========================
===========================
-Matt
===========================
===========================
===========================
======================0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Vi Kapler hinges |
Oscar.
Just curious but what are your thoughts on using those hinges on the aileron
s ?
Your thoughts?
I would doubt the hinges would be exposed to 3000lbs pressure at the aileron
s. Naturally I'm thinking 3 hinges per side
Thanks
John
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 20, 2014, at 8:18 PM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Update on the latest batch of hinges. I finished up a representative pair
of hinges for load testing and rigged up the load testing jig, but ran out o
f daylight before I could run the test. I want to make sure everything is s
et up properly and can be photographed and documented before I run the test.
It's really not anything fancy or esoteric... a lever arm gives me the lev
erage to develop the required load on the hinges by using a 5 gallon pail th
at I'm going to fill with wet sand and then weigh after breakage. The last s
et that Vi tested failed at about 700 lbs of static load; no fatigue testing
was done and we know that aluminum fatigues but to my knowledge there is no
known or reported failure of these hinges and there are a lot of them out t
here.
>
> We expect the single-tab hinge half to be the part that fails since the ma
ting double-tab half has twice as much area to carry its load and the AN3 cl
evis pin is WAY stronger in shear than the cast aluminum hinge halves are in
tension. In Vi's test the single-tab hinge half broke right across the hin
ge pin axis. I suppose one other possible failure mode is "pull-out", where
the pull of the hinge pin against the top of the tab causes it to break and
the pin pulls through. My load test should go quickly.
>
> I have now used all of the (simple) tools and jigging that Vi used to make
the parts in years past, and now that he's gone I look at each tool a littl
e bit differently than I did before. His hands were the last ones to touch t
he tools and jigs before I touched them today. I wish I could have gotten t
he first set of hinges completed before he died so I could have told him abo
ut it, but I came pretty close.
>
> The first set of hinges from this new run has been promised for a long tim
e to Bob Coolbaugh and Andrew King for the restoration of "Blitzkrieg", with
nine other builders' names on the list after them. When they are available
and ready to ship, I'll post that information here.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power, Culver prop
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: making progress on Sky Scout |
Thanks, Jake. The photos are really helping. I made some cable guides for the aileron
idler cable just like the ones in your photo. They are streamlined and
should work great. I'm really concerned about the "drag factor"!
Maybe we will be flying about the same time. Based on the chit-chat, there might
be an entire Air Force of Piets taking to the air around the same time.
Ray Krause
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 21, 2014, at 10:27 PM, aerocarjake <flight.jake@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ray, looks beautiful, really beautiful...!
>
> --------
> Jake Schultz - curator,
> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435995#435995
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: making progress on Sky Scout |
That's some fine looking work! Is that a built up spar I see? Tell us about it
please?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 19, 2014, at 7:30 PM, Ray Krause <raykrause@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> The last week has been productive and I have my plane all together and rigged.
I have the covering material and will start after the New Year. Just a couple
pictures, if I can add them.
>
> <image1.JPG>
>
>
> The cowling and other metal work is done, also.
> <image3.JPG>
>
>
>
> Ray Krause
>
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Another pietenpol egg has been laid |
Oscar. Thank you for your amazingly generous offer of assistance! That would be
most welcome and appreciated. One other reason for this project is the people
on this list. It truly is a community here which I am pleased and proud to
be a part of.
Thanks to all. Glen
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 21, 2014, at 8:27 PM, "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Glen;
>
> I have a few pictures of the Ariel project that I bought out of Santa Fe a few
years ago, and although they don't show much more than a mock-up of the fuselage,
gear, and wings, perhaps it might be useful to you to see pictures as you
get into your build. I might also have a picture of the ENMA Tigre powered
Ariel that was under construction in Missouri awhile back.
>
> Also, I still have the beautiful set of welded-leg, split-axle spoked-wheel landing
gear that was built for it. As near as I can tell, it is exactly the same
as the standard Air Camper gear, same fuselage width, same mounting brackets
and bungee shock struts. I would be happy to lend the gear to you for trial
fitting, getting dimensions off of, and (perhaps best of all), getting your
fuselage up off the building table and able to roll around. The fuselage build
should go quickly for you. I also have an unairworthy Scott 2000 tailwheel
that can go on the back of it to permit you to move it around the hangar or workshop,
and you're welcome to that as well. Let me know where on the coast you're
located. I get up to Salem once a month if that's any help.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435994#435994
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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|
Seems like 2-3 degrees. I=99ll have to look that up to be
positive. It makes it fly without elevator droop. Also has trim to
compensate for fuel burnoff, but it is very seldom used.
Barry
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Krause
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Winter Flying!
Beautiful! This may be considered torture! How much down pitch do you
have on your engine mount?
Thanks,
Ray Krause
Building Sky Scout
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 18, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Barry Davis <bed@mindspring.com> wrote:
Dang it was cold last Saturday, but hey.somebody=99s
gotta do it.
Barry Davis
NX973BP
<image001.jpg>
<Big Piet 01 Small.jpg>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Vi Kapler hinges |
John;
Why would you want to use the tail style hinges for the ailerons? Piano hinges
are the way to go on the ailerons, plus they effectively seal the aileron gap.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436007#436007
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Vi Kapler hinges |
Oscar my compliments on carrying on the important work of Vi Kapler!
Sent from my iPad
Jack Textor
> On Dec 21, 2014, at 4:35 PM, "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I just completed the load test of the latest batch of hinges and am happy to report that they have met or exceeded the strength of the earlier ones that Vi tested. The test sample that Vi sent me had broken at 700 lbs and mine was loaded to over 900 lbs and it never broke. For anyone who is interested, details of my load testing are at http://www.flysquirrel.net/loadtest.html .
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435974#435974
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Wing rib help! |
The following is cut and paste from the latest AC 43-13-1B. I sent this to AS&S
two years ago and the glue was removed from their on-line catalog. Their description
at the time included reference to aviation use. Now they just list
a Federal Spec.
Plastic resin glue (urea-formaldehyde
resin glue) has been used in wood aircraft
for many years. Caution should be used due to
possible rapid deterioration (more rapidly than
wood) of plastic resin glue in hot, moist environments
and under cyclic swell-shrink stress.
For these reasons, urea-formaldehyde should
be considered obsolete for all repairs. Any
proposed use of this type adhesive should be
discussed with the appropriate FAA office
prior to using on certificated aircraft.
Since we're working under experimental rules, you can use anything you like --
hot glue from the craft store or Elmer's glue from Walmart. AC 43-13, like many
of the FAA rules, was written with a mixture of tradition, science and blood.
If 43-13 speaks to what I'm doing, I'll listen lest it be my blood on the
revision pages.
For those interested in epoxies, the following is excerpted from 43-13.
(6) Epoxy adhesives are a two-part
synthetic resin product, and are acceptable
providing they meet the requirements of paragraph
1-4a. Many new epoxy resin systems
appear to have excellent working properties.
They have been found to be much less critical
of joint quality and clamping pressure. They
penetrate well into wood and plywood. However,
joint durability in the presence of elevated
temperature or moisture is inadequate in
many epoxies. The epoxy adhesives generally
consist of a resin and a hardener that are mixed
together in the proportions specified by the
manufacturer. Depending on the type of epoxy,
pot life may vary from a few minutes to
an hour. Cure times vary between products.
CAUTION: Some epoxies may have
unacceptable thermal or other hidden
characteristics not obvious in a shop
test. It is essential that only those
products meeting the requirements of
paragraph 1-4a be used in aircraft repair.
Do not vary the resin-to hardener
ratio in an attempt to alter
the cure time. Strength, thermal, and
chemical resistance will be adversely
affected. Read and observe material
safety data. Be sure to follow the adhesive
manufacturers instructions regarding
mixing, open and closed curing
time, and usable temperature
ranges.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436013#436013
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Vi Kapler hinges |
Was thinking about it, figured I would get your thoughts on the idea. Naturally
I would have to come up with a creative gap seal method. But was considering
your hinges to do the job. Plus I will need a couple additional hinges for other
purposes and thought, why not buy 2 sets ?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 22, 2014, at 12:33 PM, "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> John;
>
> Why would you want to use the tail style hinges for the ailerons? Piano hinges
are the way to go on the ailerons, plus they effectively seal the aileron gap.
>
> --------
> Oscar Zuniga
> Medford, OR
> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
> A75 power
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436007#436007
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( |
Hey Tools!
Looks like the Angels of the Air have smiled on me, and I have the truck and resources
to move the piet project. I load the truck next Monday,and I am building
a crate to move it in. I expect to unload it into my living room of the apartment
I am renting in Nashville, and then drive it down soon after that. My wife
is supportive spouse, but a 15 foot fuse in the living room is pushing my
luck [Shocked] :D
I have your phone number, and here is mine in TN: 615-487-9784.
Woo Hoo! Many thanks for your kindness, and I look forward to meeting the Tennessee
contingent of the Piet Fliers :D
Mark Roberts
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436030#436030
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Vi Kapler hinges |
John; for the cost of a set of the tail hinges, you should be able to buy enough
piano hinge material (either rolled or extruded ) to do your ailerons. With
the piano hinges, you get the added benefits of gap sealing and not having to
fuss with small cotter pins on clevis pins in fairly tight spaces. A single
piece of rod/wire holds the two halves of the piano hinge together and you're
done.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436031#436031
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( |
Yeah Mark!! Just don't make a mess in the living room...you owe her BIG! What
a girl will do for a night out! Honey,my mother's going to visit for awhile,
ok? I could go on... Glad your not selling it. Glen
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 22, 2014, at 8:34 PM, "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hey Tools!
>
> Looks like the Angels of the Air have smiled on me, and I have the truck and
resources to move the piet project. I load the truck next Monday,and I am building
a crate to move it in. I expect to unload it into my living room of the apartment
I am renting in Nashville, and then drive it down soon after that. My
wife is supportive spouse, but a 15 foot fuse in the living room is pushing my
luck [Shocked] :D
>
> I have your phone number, and here is mine in TN: 615-487-9784.
>
> Woo Hoo! Many thanks for your kindness, and I look forward to meeting the Tennessee
contingent of the Piet Fliers :D
>
> Mark Roberts
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436030#436030
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( |
Just a concept. Put it in like it is a piece of custom furniture. A dry bar!
Blue Skies,
Steve "Pintrist" D.
On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
wrote:
> mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>
> Hey Tools!
>
> Looks like the Angels of the Air have smiled on me, and I have the truck
> and resources to move the piet project. I load the truck next Monday,and I
> am building a crate to move it in. I expect to unload it into my living
> room of the apartment I am renting in Nashville, and then drive it down
> soon after that. My wife is supportive spouse, but a 15 foot fuse in the
> living room is pushing my luck [Shocked] :D
>
> I have your phone number, and here is mine in TN: 615-487-9784.
>
> Woo Hoo! Many thanks for your kindness, and I look forward to meeting the
> Tennessee contingent of the Piet Fliers :D
>
> Mark Roberts
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436030#436030
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( |
What is emotionally fun about kindred spirits like what is on this list, is that
others will revel in other's good fortune: A first flight of a 10 year long
build, a shared tear from the passing of someone many of us know only from the
list like Vi (I DID buy some hinges a while back fearing they would one day be
unavailable... YEAH Oscar!), the rejoicing others share when someone can keep
and move a loved project like mine.
Oh, AND a guy I don't even know off of this list offers to store my project at
no cost in his hanger till I can get on my "building feet" again. Thanks Tools!!
And thanks to the rest of ya'll for hollerin' support for me! I sure appreciate
it!
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436034#436034
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