---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/22/14: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:03 AM - Re: Re: Wing rib help! (danhelsper@aol.com) 2. 06:45 AM - Re: Vi Kapler hinges (Amsafetyc) 3. 07:13 AM - Re: Re: making progress on Sky Scout (Ray Krause) 4. 07:31 AM - Re: Re: making progress on Sky Scout (glenschweizer@yahoo.com) 5. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: Another pietenpol egg has been laid (glenschweizer@yahoo.com) 6. 08:09 AM - Re: Winter Flying! (Barry Davis) 7. 09:33 AM - Re: Vi Kapler hinges (taildrags) 8. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: Vi Kapler hinges (Jack) 9. 12:17 PM - Re: Wing rib help! (dgaldrich) 10. 06:28 PM - Re: Re: Vi Kapler hinges (Amsafetyc) 11. 08:34 PM - Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( (Mark Roberts) 12. 08:36 PM - Re: Vi Kapler hinges (taildrags) 13. 08:49 PM - Re: Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( (glenschweizer@yahoo.com) 14. 09:04 PM - Re: Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( (Steven Dortch) 15. 09:27 PM - Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( (Mark Roberts) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:12 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing rib help! From: danhelsper@aol.com Dave,=0A=0A=0AAS&S still has it. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/se arch.php?s=WELDWOOD+GLUE&x=0&y=0=0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0ALoensloe Airfie ld=0APuryear, TN=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: dgaldrich =0ATo: pietenpol-list =0ASent: Sun, Dec 21, 2014 5:26 pm=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: "dgaldrich" =0A=0AMy error... The glue in Douwe's wing was plastic resin, not casien as =0Aoriginally stated. It appeared that the tail feathers were assembled u sing the =0Asame stuff but those joints were MUCH stronger. At the time, we suspected that =0Ait was used correctly o n them and not on the ribs. The latest version of 43-13 =0Asays that urea-formeldehyde glues are only used with speci fic, case by case, FAA =0Aapproval. AS&S no longer carries it.=0A=0ADave=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://for =========================== =========================== -Matt =========================== =========================== =========================== ======================0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Vi Kapler hinges From: Amsafetyc Oscar. Just curious but what are your thoughts on using those hinges on the aileron s ? Your thoughts? I would doubt the hinges would be exposed to 3000lbs pressure at the aileron s. Naturally I'm thinking 3 hinges per side Thanks John Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 20, 2014, at 8:18 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Update on the latest batch of hinges. I finished up a representative pair of hinges for load testing and rigged up the load testing jig, but ran out o f daylight before I could run the test. I want to make sure everything is s et up properly and can be photographed and documented before I run the test. It's really not anything fancy or esoteric... a lever arm gives me the lev erage to develop the required load on the hinges by using a 5 gallon pail th at I'm going to fill with wet sand and then weigh after breakage. The last s et that Vi tested failed at about 700 lbs of static load; no fatigue testing was done and we know that aluminum fatigues but to my knowledge there is no known or reported failure of these hinges and there are a lot of them out t here. > > We expect the single-tab hinge half to be the part that fails since the ma ting double-tab half has twice as much area to carry its load and the AN3 cl evis pin is WAY stronger in shear than the cast aluminum hinge halves are in tension. In Vi's test the single-tab hinge half broke right across the hin ge pin axis. I suppose one other possible failure mode is "pull-out", where the pull of the hinge pin against the top of the tab causes it to break and the pin pulls through. My load test should go quickly. > > I have now used all of the (simple) tools and jigging that Vi used to make the parts in years past, and now that he's gone I look at each tool a littl e bit differently than I did before. His hands were the last ones to touch t he tools and jigs before I touched them today. I wish I could have gotten t he first set of hinges completed before he died so I could have told him abo ut it, but I came pretty close. > > The first set of hinges from this new run has been promised for a long tim e to Bob Coolbaugh and Andrew King for the restoration of "Blitzkrieg", with nine other builders' names on the list after them. When they are available and ready to ship, I'll post that information here. > > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power, Culver prop > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:52 AM PST US From: Ray Krause Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: making progress on Sky Scout Thanks, Jake. The photos are really helping. I made some cable guides for the aileron idler cable just like the ones in your photo. They are streamlined and should work great. I'm really concerned about the "drag factor"! Maybe we will be flying about the same time. Based on the chit-chat, there might be an entire Air Force of Piets taking to the air around the same time. Ray Krause Sent from my iPad > On Dec 21, 2014, at 10:27 PM, aerocarjake wrote: > > > Ray, looks beautiful, really beautiful...! > > -------- > Jake Schultz - curator, > Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435995#435995 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: making progress on Sky Scout From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com That's some fine looking work! Is that a built up spar I see? Tell us about it please? Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 19, 2014, at 7:30 PM, Ray Krause wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > The last week has been productive and I have my plane all together and rigged. I have the covering material and will start after the New Year. Just a couple pictures, if I can add them. > > > > > The cowling and other metal work is done, also. > > > > > Ray Krause > > > 

> 
> 
>
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Another pietenpol egg has been laid From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com Oscar. Thank you for your amazingly generous offer of assistance! That would be most welcome and appreciated. One other reason for this project is the people on this list. It truly is a community here which I am pleased and proud to be a part of. Thanks to all. Glen Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 21, 2014, at 8:27 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > Glen; > > I have a few pictures of the Ariel project that I bought out of Santa Fe a few years ago, and although they don't show much more than a mock-up of the fuselage, gear, and wings, perhaps it might be useful to you to see pictures as you get into your build. I might also have a picture of the ENMA Tigre powered Ariel that was under construction in Missouri awhile back. > > Also, I still have the beautiful set of welded-leg, split-axle spoked-wheel landing gear that was built for it. As near as I can tell, it is exactly the same as the standard Air Camper gear, same fuselage width, same mounting brackets and bungee shock struts. I would be happy to lend the gear to you for trial fitting, getting dimensions off of, and (perhaps best of all), getting your fuselage up off the building table and able to roll around. The fuselage build should go quickly for you. I also have an unairworthy Scott 2000 tailwheel that can go on the back of it to permit you to move it around the hangar or workshop, and you're welcome to that as well. Let me know where on the coast you're located. I get up to Salem once a month if that's any help. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435994#435994 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:10 AM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Winter Flying! Seems like 2-3 degrees. I=99ll have to look that up to be positive. It makes it fly without elevator droop. Also has trim to compensate for fuel burnoff, but it is very seldom used. Barry From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Krause Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 11:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Winter Flying! Beautiful! This may be considered torture! How much down pitch do you have on your engine mount? Thanks, Ray Krause Building Sky Scout Sent from my iPad On Dec 18, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Barry Davis wrote: Dang it was cold last Saturday, but hey.somebody=99s gotta do it. Barry Davis NX973BP ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:32 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vi Kapler hinges From: "taildrags" John; Why would you want to use the tail style hinges for the ailerons? Piano hinges are the way to go on the ailerons, plus they effectively seal the aileron gap. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436007#436007 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vi Kapler hinges From: Jack Oscar my compliments on carrying on the important work of Vi Kapler! Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > On Dec 21, 2014, at 4:35 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > I just completed the load test of the latest batch of hinges and am happy to report that they have met or exceeded the strength of the earlier ones that Vi tested. The test sample that Vi sent me had broken at 700 lbs and mine was loaded to over 900 lbs and it never broke. For anyone who is interested, details of my load testing are at http://www.flysquirrel.net/loadtest.html . > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=435974#435974 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:29 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing rib help! From: "dgaldrich" The following is cut and paste from the latest AC 43-13-1B. I sent this to AS&S two years ago and the glue was removed from their on-line catalog. Their description at the time included reference to aviation use. Now they just list a Federal Spec. Plastic resin glue (urea-formaldehyde resin glue) has been used in wood aircraft for many years. Caution should be used due to possible rapid deterioration (more rapidly than wood) of plastic resin glue in hot, moist environments and under cyclic swell-shrink stress. For these reasons, urea-formaldehyde should be considered obsolete for all repairs. Any proposed use of this type adhesive should be discussed with the appropriate FAA office prior to using on certificated aircraft. Since we're working under experimental rules, you can use anything you like -- hot glue from the craft store or Elmer's glue from Walmart. AC 43-13, like many of the FAA rules, was written with a mixture of tradition, science and blood. If 43-13 speaks to what I'm doing, I'll listen lest it be my blood on the revision pages. For those interested in epoxies, the following is excerpted from 43-13. (6) Epoxy adhesives are a two-part synthetic resin product, and are acceptable providing they meet the requirements of paragraph 1-4a. Many new epoxy resin systems appear to have excellent working properties. They have been found to be much less critical of joint quality and clamping pressure. They penetrate well into wood and plywood. However, joint durability in the presence of elevated temperature or moisture is inadequate in many epoxies. The epoxy adhesives generally consist of a resin and a hardener that are mixed together in the proportions specified by the manufacturer. Depending on the type of epoxy, pot life may vary from a few minutes to an hour. Cure times vary between products. CAUTION: Some epoxies may have unacceptable thermal or other hidden characteristics not obvious in a shop test. It is essential that only those products meeting the requirements of paragraph 1-4a be used in aircraft repair. Do not vary the resin-to hardener ratio in an attempt to alter the cure time. Strength, thermal, and chemical resistance will be adversely affected. Read and observe material safety data. Be sure to follow the adhesive manufacturers instructions regarding mixing, open and closed curing time, and usable temperature ranges. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436013#436013 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vi Kapler hinges From: Amsafetyc Was thinking about it, figured I would get your thoughts on the idea. Naturally I would have to come up with a creative gap seal method. But was considering your hinges to do the job. Plus I will need a couple additional hinges for other purposes and thought, why not buy 2 sets ? Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 22, 2014, at 12:33 PM, "taildrags" wrote: > > > John; > > Why would you want to use the tail style hinges for the ailerons? Piano hinges are the way to go on the ailerons, plus they effectively seal the aileron gap. > > -------- > Oscar Zuniga > Medford, OR > Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" > A75 power > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436007#436007 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:53 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( From: "Mark Roberts" Hey Tools! Looks like the Angels of the Air have smiled on me, and I have the truck and resources to move the piet project. I load the truck next Monday,and I am building a crate to move it in. I expect to unload it into my living room of the apartment I am renting in Nashville, and then drive it down soon after that. My wife is supportive spouse, but a 15 foot fuse in the living room is pushing my luck [Shocked] :D I have your phone number, and here is mine in TN: 615-487-9784. Woo Hoo! Many thanks for your kindness, and I look forward to meeting the Tennessee contingent of the Piet Fliers :D Mark Roberts Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436030#436030 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:00 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Vi Kapler hinges From: "taildrags" John; for the cost of a set of the tail hinges, you should be able to buy enough piano hinge material (either rolled or extruded ) to do your ailerons. With the piano hinges, you get the added benefits of gap sealing and not having to fuss with small cotter pins on clevis pins in fairly tight spaces. A single piece of rod/wire holds the two halves of the piano hinge together and you're done. -------- Oscar Zuniga Medford, OR Air Camper NX41CC "Scout" A75 power Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436031#436031 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( From: glenschweizer@yahoo.com Yeah Mark!! Just don't make a mess in the living room...you owe her BIG! What a girl will do for a night out! Honey,my mother's going to visit for awhile, ok? I could go on... Glad your not selling it. Glen Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 22, 2014, at 8:34 PM, "Mark Roberts" wrote: > > > Hey Tools! > > Looks like the Angels of the Air have smiled on me, and I have the truck and resources to move the piet project. I load the truck next Monday,and I am building a crate to move it in. I expect to unload it into my living room of the apartment I am renting in Nashville, and then drive it down soon after that. My wife is supportive spouse, but a 15 foot fuse in the living room is pushing my luck [Shocked] :D > > I have your phone number, and here is mine in TN: 615-487-9784. > > Woo Hoo! Many thanks for your kindness, and I look forward to meeting the Tennessee contingent of the Piet Fliers :D > > Mark Roberts > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436030#436030 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( From: Steven Dortch Just a concept. Put it in like it is a piece of custom furniture. A dry bar! Blue Skies, Steve "Pintrist" D. On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 10:34 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: > mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > > Hey Tools! > > Looks like the Angels of the Air have smiled on me, and I have the truck > and resources to move the piet project. I load the truck next Monday,and I > am building a crate to move it in. I expect to unload it into my living > room of the apartment I am renting in Nashville, and then drive it down > soon after that. My wife is supportive spouse, but a 15 foot fuse in the > living room is pushing my luck [Shocked] :D > > I have your phone number, and here is mine in TN: 615-487-9784. > > Woo Hoo! Many thanks for your kindness, and I look forward to meeting the > Tennessee contingent of the Piet Fliers :D > > Mark Roberts > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436030#436030 > > -- Blue Skies, Steve D ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: West Coast Piet Project for Sale :( From: "Mark Roberts" What is emotionally fun about kindred spirits like what is on this list, is that others will revel in other's good fortune: A first flight of a 10 year long build, a shared tear from the passing of someone many of us know only from the list like Vi (I DID buy some hinges a while back fearing they would one day be unavailable... YEAH Oscar!), the rejoicing others share when someone can keep and move a loved project like mine. Oh, AND a guy I don't even know off of this list offers to store my project at no cost in his hanger till I can get on my "building feet" again. Thanks Tools!! And thanks to the rest of ya'll for hollerin' support for me! I sure appreciate it! Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436034#436034 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.