Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:42 AM - Any Piet projects in Japan? (Jim Markle)
2. 04:03 AM - Re: Any Piet projects in Japan? (Charles N. Campbell)
3. 04:45 AM - Re: Front shoulder harness attachments. (womenfly2)
4. 05:02 AM - Re: Any Piet projects in Japan? (Bill Church)
5. 05:09 AM - Re: Re: Front shoulder harness attachments. (Scott Knowlton)
6. 05:31 AM - front harness attach point (Douwe Blumberg)
7. 05:33 AM - Re: Front shoulder harness attachments. (womenfly2)
8. 06:27 AM - Re: Any Piet projects in Japan? (dfwplt)
9. 08:21 AM - Japan? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC])
10. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: Front shoulder harness attachments. (Steven Dortch)
11. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: Front shoulder harness attachments. (Scott Knowlton)
12. 11:43 AM - Re: Re: Sheet metal from Aviation department (THOMAS.233327)
13. 12:11 PM - Rudder return springs (Charles N. Campbell)
14. 01:26 PM - Re: front harness attach point (bubbleboy)
15. 03:52 PM - Re: Rudder return springs (tools)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Any Piet projects in Japan? |
I'll be in the Tokyo area on business in a couple weeks...any chance there are
any Pietenpeople available for a visit while I'm in the area?
Jim in Pryor
Sent from my smartphone.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Any Piet projects in Japan? |
Jim, will you have room in your luggage for some Japaneese tools?
On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
wrote:
> jim_markle@mindspring.com>
>
> I'll be in the Tokyo area on business in a couple weeks...any chance there
> are any Pietenpeople available for a visit while I'm in the area?
>
> Jim in Pryor
>
> Sent from my smartphone.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Front shoulder harness attachments. |
So in the above cable/U-bolt design with a 10g forward crash load, how much will
the cables stretch alone with the plywood compression failure? Face impact with
instrument panel and top of cowling edge looks imminent.
There is also the possibility of the cable pulling through the oval-sleeve swage
fitting from the initial shock loads. 1/8" cable with one oval-sleeve swage
fitting = 2300 lbs to fail. That also depends if the swage tool used was the correct
type giving full compression of 3 swages rings.
Just my 2 worth,
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436817#436817
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| Subject: | Re: Any Piet projects in Japan? |
Hey Jim,
I'm just east of Tokyo. About 9000 miles.
Drop by anytime.
BC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436818#436818
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Front shoulder harness attachments. |
In the global sense the pilot/passenger restraint attachments are a challenge for
any wood airplane design. The final attach point will invariably end up being
wood which we all know will fail under a high G impact. So really the shoulder
harness and seat belts are both "better than nothing" solutions. The plans,
while a marvel of completeness, lack any guidance for hard points to attach
passenger restraint belts leaving the builder to decide how much engineering,
building and weight to add to their airplane.
My philosophy when approaching this problem was to attempt to do my best given
the wooden structure. As a professional pilot I have spent years making my best
effort to ensure the comfort and safety of my passengers. In the Piet I will
endeavour to do the same. I never want to be in that situation of - "if only
I had incorporated shoulder harnesses, this wouldn't have happened..." I
suspect my system will only be effective up to 3 or 4 Gs before wood failure
or bracket failure or both. At the same time the likelihood of a sudden stop
or crash above this G-load being survivable regardless of restraint is rather
low. My hope is to keep both myself and my passenger from having a head injury
caused by striking the instrument panel after a sudden stop like a gear collapse,
runway excursion into a ditch or low(er) speed impact into a fence post
or tree.
We can't build our planes around the idea that we are going to crash them but we
should be managing our risk to the best of our ability and the structure of
our airframe.
Scott K
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 9, 2015, at 7:47 AM, "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> So in the above cable/U-bolt design with a 10g forward crash load, how much will
the cables stretch alone with the plywood compression failure? Face impact
with instrument panel and top of cowling edge looks imminent.
>
> There is also the possibility of the cable pulling through the oval-sleeve swage
fitting from the initial shock loads. 1/8" cable with one oval-sleeve swage
fitting = 2300 lbs to fail. That also depends if the swage tool used was the
correct type giving full compression of 3 swages rings.
>
> Just my 2 worth,
> WF2
>
> --------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436817#436817
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | front harness attach point |
Happy new year all!
I bought a climbing, lock carabineer, slipped some plastic tubing over the
crossed cabane wires and snap the harness there whenever I fly a passenger.
That's pretty strong cable, so as along as the whole wing doesn't displace
forward, I'm hoping it'll be enough.
Douwe
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Front shoulder harness attachments. |
I agree Scott.
Shoulder harness attachment for the front cockpit is a real challenge. Rear cockpit
not to bad. For the front I would look at using the wing attachment fittings
as a hard point, upper or lower. Trade-off for both on injury but look at
the best of the two evils.
The idea is to have the minimum amount of attachment points or parts in the system
that can elongate or "stretch" on impact to keep you from moving forward.
Hence the shoulder harness fasten directly to only one hard point and not to many
points trying to transfer the load, for they all will move some amount.
Just my 2 worth,
WF2
--------
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436820#436820
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| Subject: | Re: Any Piet projects in Japan? |
Charles, I likely will have some room for some tools.
JM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436822#436822
Message 9
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Hey Jim,
I'm just east of Tokyo. About 9000 miles.
Drop by anytime.
BC
Man, I'm glad I wasn't drinking coffee! That was hilarious Bill!
Mark Stanley is about the only guy I can think of building in Japan. He's
been on the list before and he's listed in the Westcoast Piet web site
but I can't seem to find his e-mail address.
Mark is from Australia but married a lady from Japan and I believe, last I
heard from Mark, that his wife was an interpreter. I did a Google searc
h
on Mark Stanley Piet Japan but even in the Matronics archives I couldn't fi
nd Mark's e-mail address. I'll bet Ryan Mueller will come up with it.....
he's
a genius with such things.
Mike C.
(and oh, Jim......I'm about 8,700 miles east of Tokyo)
Hi Pieters,
Attached is a shot taken of Piet # 1 in Japan. The owner/builder (T.Mita)
is in the front seat and I am in the rear.
We were just having a session of making airplane noises so I thought I woul
d send the group a shot.
It is powered by an A-65, and is the short fuz version.
My Piet (#2) is still coming along although progress is slow. I have comple
ted 30 full ribs and only need the 2 rear rib sections and the single forwa
rd rib for the center section.
The ribs on the cabane struts in the photo of Piet #1, are from my collecti
on.
I plan to look around for some timber for the spars, if I can't find that,
then I will start on the fin/rudder etc.
Mark Stanley
in hot'n'humid Japan
Attachment: Mita & Mark in Mita-san's Pietenpol Aircamper June 2005, JMGC 1
.JPG<http://copilotco.com/mail-archives/matronics.2005/jpgNcbJAVQQkE.jpg>
Description: JPEG image
This isn't Mark's Piet but a friend of his who owns this Piet.
[cid:image001.png@01D02BFE.42B26720]
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Front shoulder harness attachments. |
Scott, I found really good ATV seatbelt/shoulder harnesses that are
increadibly strong and very affordable, Pretty color also. Then I worried
about the strength and thickness of my bolts for my seatbelt
attachments. Then my mentor pointed out that I was attaching these
increadibly strong items to wood that was going to be the weak point. We
did work out some ways to spread out the impact across more wood, but the
wood will give first.
Blue Skies,
Steve D
On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Scott Knowlton <flyingscott_k@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> flyingscott_k@hotmail.com>
>
> In the global sense the pilot/passenger restraint attachments are a
> challenge for any wood airplane design. The final attach point will
> invariably end up being wood which we all know will fail under a high G
> impact. So really the shoulder harness and seat belts are both "better
> than nothing" solutions. The plans, while a marvel of completeness, lack
> any guidance for hard points to attach passenger restraint belts leaving
> the builder to decide how much engineering, building and weight to add to
> their airplane.
> My philosophy when approaching this problem was to attempt to do my best
> given the wooden structure. As a professional pilot I have spent years
> making my best effort to ensure the comfort and safety of my passengers.
> In the Piet I will endeavour to do the same. I never want to be in that
> situation of - "if only I had incorporated shoulder harnesses, this
> wouldn't have happened..." I suspect my system will only be effective
up
> to 3 or 4 Gs before wood failure or bracket failure or both. At the same
> time the likelihood of a sudden stop or crash above this G-load being
> survivable regardless of restraint is rather low. My hope is to keep bot
h
> myself and my passenger from having a head injury caused by striking the
> instrument panel after a sudden stop like a gear collapse, runway excursi
on
> into a ditch or low(er) speed impact into a fence post or tree.
> We can't build our planes around the idea that we are going to crash them
> but we should be managing our risk to the best of our ability and the
> structure of our airframe.
>
> Scott K
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 9, 2015, at 7:47 AM, "womenfly2" <Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> Love2Fly.KAP@gmail.com>
> >
> > So in the above cable/U-bolt design with a 10g forward crash load, how
> much will the cables stretch alone with the plywood compression failure?
> Face impact with instrument panel and top of cowling edge looks imminent.
> >
> > There is also the possibility of the cable pulling through the
> oval-sleeve swage fitting from the initial shock loads. 1/8" cable with o
ne
> oval-sleeve swage fitting = 2300 lbs to fail. That also depends if the
> swage tool used was the correct type giving full compression of 3 swages
> rings.
> >
> > Just my 2=C2=A2 worth,
> > WF2
> >
> > --------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436817#436817
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Blue Skies,
Steve D
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| Subject: | Re: Front shoulder harness attachments. |
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Sheet metal from Aviation department |
Steve, and others.
Get a piece of scrap wood about 4" long (cut off your broom handle?) and make a
fine saw cut about 1/4"-5/16" deep in one end. Put the edge of the sheet metal
into the saw cut, push a little and draw the new tool along the edge of the
metal, making a slight bend along the edge. I did this on the Hummel Birds I built
for all the lap joints and they all came out nice and tight. Cheap and easy
also.
Do be careful or you can easily get a nasty cut in your finger!
Tom Hale-lurker, building a Sonex
----- Original Message -----
From: "taildrags" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2015 7:55:34 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Sheet metal from Aviation department
Steve;
The breaks I'm talking about are not 'hard' bends at all... just slight bends.
They do stiffen the edges a bit, but they also keep the edges straighter and they
hold the edge of the metal against the fabric.
--------
Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR
Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"
A75 power
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436809#436809
Message 13
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| Subject: | Rudder return springs |
OK, you rudder bar people might as well move on to another post. This one
has to do with Rudder Pedals, which I am using. (Incidentally, I have been
flying since 1943 and I have never even seen a plane with a rudder bar.) I
bought two rudder return springs from Aircraft Spruce. What I want to know
is: Does the spring start activating when the pedal is displaced aft of
the neutral position (the other pedal has moved forward of the neutral
position, of course) or does the spring become activated anytime the pedal
is aft of the most forward position? If the first case is true, then what
happens to the relaxed spring when the pedal moves forward of the neutral
position? Uncle Tony just shows the two springs connected between the
rudder pedal and the firewall -- nothing is said about when the spring
becomes activated. I've been looking at coil springs in the Aircraft
spring section of Lowes and they have a variety of springs from practically
zero working weight to well over 8 pounds (they are heavy springs). What
do I use and where and how do I apply them? Chuck
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: front harness attach point |
I'm contemplating this at present Douwe, would you have a pic please?
Scotty
--------
Tamworth, Australia
Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper
www.scottyspietenpol.com
Fuslage now on its undercarriage! About to start wing spars...Corvair engine at
Roy's Garage waiting to be modified.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436829#436829
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder return springs |
Even folks with rudder bars should take notice as the front seat rudder pedals
have the same issue.
I believe the spring should be in tension ALL the time. Ok to reduce to nearly
zero, but not quite... A spring not in tension has a much more likely chance
of becoming disconnected inadvertently, and simply getting in the way becoming
a snag hazard.
The springs are there to control the pedals, not provide centering force or anything.
By the way, a Standard J-1 has a rudder bar. I really like it. Didn't think I
would the first time I sat in a Piet, but that changed even with only taxiing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=436830#436830
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